Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Omake: Friendbringers
Imagine if Joe learned the total amount of endbringers through the number of friendbringers.

After getting the assumed three endbringers joe would probably poop himself when he starts getting more then the assumed maximum number of three or even the stretched limit of seven.
Even just getting one more friendbringer then the normal trinity endbringers raises even more endbringer questions, with most of them concerning power sandbagging, why the reserve endbringers aren't currently active, and how did the friendbringers become so cute
 
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Imagine if Joe learned the total amount of endbringers through the number of friendbringers.

After getting the assumed three endbringers joe would probably poop himself when he starts getting more then the assumed maximum number of three or even the stretched limit of seven.
Even just getting one more friendbringer then the normal trinity endbringers raises even more endbringer questions, with most of them concerning power sandbagging, why the reserve endbringers aren't currently active, and how did the friendbringers become so cute
I'm pretty sure his passenger has warned him there were 20 Endbringers. I think it was brought up in an earlier chapter.

EDIT: Nevermind, can't find it in story. Joe only knows killing Endbringers will make things worse.
 
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magic would be largely useless to those who don't have the power pools associated with those specific systems.
Joe can potentially teach and grant full scope of Nasuverse magic. Fate-series has artificial nerve-circuits and circuit-implants at minimum (has other ways to cast). With how flexible Joe's capabilities are in relation to 'this undifinable thing', making and integrating new circuits might be even automatable.

Joe might have similar options with Strike Witches' familiars. It's supposedly part of the soul or an extension. So Joe might be able to grant and teach it (hopefully doesn't require sacrificing puppies).
 
Joe can potentially teach and grant full scope of Nasuverse magic. Fate-series has artificial nerve-circuits and circuit-implants at minimum (has other ways to cast). With how flexible Joe's capabilities are in relation to 'this undifinable thing', making and integrating new circuits might be even automatable.

Joe might have similar options with Strike Witches' familiars. It's supposedly part of the soul or an extension. So Joe might be able to grant and teach it (hopefully doesn't require sacrificing puppies).
One day he will be able to grant any kind of magic, with "Magitek Mastery" perk.
And he already know how to "awaken" psionic abilities from the X-Com perk he just got in latest chapter. But he doesn't have any skills with psionic yet, so he can't teach people. :whistle:
 
Joe can potentially teach and grant full scope of Nasuverse magic. Fate-series has artificial nerve-circuits and circuit-implants at minimum (has other ways to cast). With how flexible Joe's capabilities are in relation to 'this undifinable thing', making and integrating new circuits might be even automatable.

Joe might have similar options with Strike Witches' familiars. It's supposedly part of the soul or an extension. So Joe might be able to grant and teach it (hopefully doesn't require sacrificing puppies).
I haven't seen the WoG (if there is one) for this topic, but just from the reading of the perk it sounds like the only direct upgrade he got here was the ability to teach skills that will work under the physical laws of earth bet.

Any ability that requires him to tinker on someone first before they can use it would also probably have let them learn how to use it without the teaching perk because they'd basically just be learning how to operate some of his tinker tech.

If his magic transparency applies to other people then he could pull some real bullshit, but that'd honestly read sort of weird even for the forge.

It'd be like giving someone perfect knowledge of programming that somehow let them design and assemble steam engines or something.
 
Are you not counting this as a psionic skill?
Let me ask you counterquestion: Are you counting as a psionic skill his skill to press the button that makes a device produce psionic effect?

just from the reading of the perk it sounds like the only direct upgrade he got here was the ability to teach skills that will work under the physical laws of earth bet.
Let's see:
Dabbling Academic – Fool Proof (Fallen London) Free:
Not only must one learn and understand, but to understand at a level that even laymen can comprehend. Your knowledge can be taught to those far below you.
I don't see where did you got the impression that there's a restrictions what can he teach. By the word, he can convey any of his knowledge. What knowledge can those he taught use - is a different question.
 
I wonder if he can teach his Unnatural Skills? They may be skills beyond mortal comprehension, but they are still skills. Although skills might be considered different from knowledge, perhaps they can use the knowledge tied to the subject to make machines of comparable performance?
 
I wonder if he can teach his Unnatural Skills? They may be skills beyond mortal comprehension, but they are still skills. Although skills might be considered different from knowledge, perhaps they can use the knowledge tied to the subject to make machines of comparable performance?
If we take "Unnatural Skill: Archery" as an example, he can undoubtedly now teach archery to a very high level. Whether he can teach it in a way that someone without a relevant power (e.g. Chen boosting himself with Aura, or Flechette using her Thinker power) can reach the level of "Unnatural Skill" rather than merely "Olympic Champion" is the question. Personally, I believe the answer would be "only by teaching them a Power in the process" (in the manner of using Aura or something similar, to reach superhuman levels)
 
I don't see where did you got the impression that there's a restrictions what can he teach. By the word, he can convey any of his knowledge. What knowledge can those he taught use - is a different question.
That's essentially what I meant since I was talking about material improvements to his abilities.

Teaching someone exactly how to perform alchemical rituals or something that don't work under their current physical laws is just pointlessly complicated LARPing. It doesn't provide any more value than teaching something that you know to be false.

If he needs to manually edit the rules they operate under to make it possible for them to attempt something then even without the ability to impart knowledge he could likely have taught the how to use the abilities in question a more normal way.

Or just made something to download the information into their minds using his other perks.

I'm not saying it's useless, just that the posts floating around about how this particular ability will let him add half a dozen different settings worth of powers to bet seem suspect to me.

Not that he couldn't do that, but just that this perk doesn't read like something that'd perform the whole process for him.

edit: spelling
 
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Ironically, if we follow some of the lore, unnatural skills he teaches could be easier and more effectively learned by people whose body type departs from human norms.. so case 53s, Narwhal, and any Changers out there.
 
Although skills might be considered different from knowledge, perhaps they can use the knowledge tied to the subject to make machines of comparable performance?
Well, by the word, that perk helps with conveying knowledge, not teaching skills. I.e. he's a lector, not a trainer. Perk, no doubt, will help with teaching skills, at least because it will make easier to teach the knowledge those skills based on. But his disciples will need training and experience to turn theoretical knowledge into practical skill.
Make machines of comparable performance, probably, possible. Although Joe can just build it himself, that'd be magnitudes faster and easier.

Teaching someone exactly how to perform alchemical rituals or something that don't work under their current physical laws is just pointlessly complicated LARPing. It doesn't provide any more value than teaching something that you know to be false.
There is some options though:
Like FMA alchemy, that don't need any internal power source to work. As far as I can tell - most of his alchemical skills can be used by anyone with the right set of knowledge and skills.
Then there's his knowledges from Star Trek.
Then there's his mechanical and engineering knowledges, science from Transformers-verse, and so on and so forth.
All that can be taught "normal way", at least in theory. But that perk make it way easier. For example, Star Trek knowledge have a gap of more than three centuries of continious progress with current Earth Bet science. Joe, if/when he would want to share it, before would've really hard time with explaining even the basics. Now he have a perk that guarantees that he can convey it in understandable way.

Or just made something to download the information into their minds using his other perks.
Heh. :ogles:
That perk will help here too. Because downloaded information useless if the person cant comprehend it. And that perk ensures that Joe can make that information easy to comprehend... Or, at least, way easier than without it.
 
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Like FMA alchemy, that don't need any internal power source to work. As far as I can tell - most of his alchemical skills can be used by anyone with the right set of knowledge and skills.
I don't get why that keeps coming up. In FMA it only requires knowledge, but that's knowledge of how to exploit the setting's laws of physics to perform work.

The rules they exploit aren't implicitly present everywhere, and I don't think we've seen a WoG stating that they definitely apply here.

Trying to perform a transmutation without the fiat backed perks that allow it to happen could be just about as effective as trying to fly a helicopter on a planet with no atmosphere.

LR can obviously write his story in any way he pleases, but in the absence of other evidence I'd assume that perks don't modify all of reality unless they explicitly say they do.
 
I don't get why that keeps coming up. In FMA it only requires knowledge, but that's knowledge of how to exploit the setting's laws of physics to perform work.

The rules they exploit aren't implicitly present everywhere, and I don't think we've seen a WoG stating that they definitely apply here.

Trying to perform a transmutation without the fiat backed perks that allow it to happen could be just about as effective as trying to fly a helicopter on a planet with no atmosphere.

LR can obviously write his story in any way he pleases, but in the absence of other evidence I'd assume that perks don't modify all of reality unless they explicitly say they do.

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I hope the link works, Lord said outright FMA alchemy could be taught even without a perk of teaching. Another time he said that a thinker or Tinker could piece together how to do it just by watching Joe.

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LR can obviously write his story in any way he pleases, but in the absence of other evidence I'd assume that perks don't modify all of reality unless they explicitly say they do.

Hmm. I don't mean to be flippant, or at any rate not more than usual (my boss at work has had words with me about my natural default attitude), but isn't altering reality pretty much the entire point of FMA, and really all alchemy for that matter? If it doesn't alter reality how could it work at all?

Also, it would also be an equally viable point to assume that the perks do, in fact, alter all of reality unless they explicitly say they don't. So, now that he has introduced Minovsky particles to Earth Bet, they will work as advertised, even if there was no such possibility with Earth Bet physics beforehand. Same with dust, or any other advanced material he introduces. If it is true of materials, why not knowledge of working with the same physical laws that cause those exotic materials to work?
 
LR can obviously write his story in any way he pleases, but in the absence of other evidence I'd assume that perks don't modify all of reality unless they explicitly say they do.
I may be mistaken, but I believe that LR has implied that unless the change would be significantly noticeable as a violation of existing laws of physics, rather than just an extension/exception/unexplored edge-case, then the Forge does (or, at least can) modify all of reality.

So, a Mary Poppins "laughing makes you float" perk would be a fiat-backed effect only impacting Joe (since lots of people laugh regularly, and no one starts floating), while a DBZ style "with lots of the right type of meditation and careful focus you can eventually learn to control your ki and start to develop techniques for using it in esoteric ways" might result in a bunch of elderly and dignified monks in remote temples suddenly figuring out how to fly and throw energy blasts.

Remember, the Celestial Forge isn't a puny Worm Shard, it's a Jumpchain-style ability. That's getting into R.O.B. territory, where casually duplicating, modifying, or destroying entire multiversal-clusters is considered par for the course. Entry-level stuff.
 
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Got update schedule for next chapters if anyone wants to see.

Spoilers:
If everything goes perfectly there will be one chapter covering the remaining items of the current day (the fallout from the name, Flechette's visit, Joe's call to his sister, the new technology, the production of the Undersiders' costumes), one chapter covering his therapy, one chapter covering his preparation for Somer's Rock, and then into Somer's Rock on the forth chapter. The thing is I could run out of time on any of those sections and need to split the chapter, or have to focus on the results of a major roll and take time to properly explore it. There are more 600 point perks becoming likely to show up. Also, I have 2-3 alternate perspectives I want or seed to cover before the summit. If I can't fit them in as preambles or addendums I might need to do an interlude for them.

I know people are keen to get to that meeting, but there's ground to cover first. If you think of the story as a weekly tv series then Somer's Rock would be a season or mid-season finale, not a typical episode. It's going to be a major event that will change how Joe approaches the situation in the city and set up the next arc of the story, so I need to cover it properly, both in the event itself and in everything building up to it.
 
Hey @Transreal Cloud ! I found a couple of very minor possible free perks! Though, to be fair, I've been reading several jumpdocs trying to find more things that might count as capstones when I found them.

They are from Farscape, and are:

Space Clothes: A stylish outfit that matches your species and or your occupation. The first purchase
is free, but further purchases cost 50cp

Spacesuit: A suit that lets you survive in space for a time. The first purchase is free, but further
purchases cost 50cp
 
I don't get why that keeps coming up. In FMA it only requires knowledge, but that's knowledge of how to exploit the setting's laws of physics to perform work.

The rules they exploit aren't implicitly present everywhere, and I don't think we've seen a WoG stating that they definitely apply here.

Trying to perform a transmutation without the fiat backed perks that allow it to happen could be just about as effective as trying to fly a helicopter on a planet with no atmosphere.

LR can obviously write his story in any way he pleases, but in the absence of other evidence I'd assume that perks don't modify all of reality unless they explicitly say they do.
Someone else already posted some Lord quotes in response to this, but I feel it should also be noted that the FMA alchemy perk explcitly states that Alchemy can be taught to others. It's a fiat effect that ignores whether or not FMA alchemy actually ought to exist in the current universe. No other perk so far specifies this kind of thing, so it's a popular discussion topic in regard to how things Joe introduces to the world might spread.
 
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Oh, and it might come with a Free Perk too. Either "Revival" or "Reaperdom", both of which have sub-variants. For example, "Revival" has "Discombobulate"(which is basically a knock-off version of Tattletale's power that only works on people, but not on objects/events), "Hear My Voice" (discount Bad Canary / Jedi Mind Trick plus super-singing abilities), "Keikaku Doori" (gives him the ultra-planning make-it-look-like-an-accident abilities that everyone already thinks he has) or "Mental Fortress" (which makes him immune to mind-reading, and many Master or Stranger effects. So, he would completely no-sell Gallant's blasts, Glory Girl's aura, Cherish, or even Heartbreaker), while "Reaperdom" lets him shift between the real world (RG) and the afterlife (UG) to become invisible & intangible (and use his Player Pin to read people's thoughts), and summon a shadow-duplicate to help himself fight, plus the sub-variants
Suddenly I had a thought. We had a WoG that if Joe will get Revival, it will be Mental Fortress option.
But it'd be much funnier if he'd get Keikaku Doori, and would fit the attitude of the Forge so far:
"Thanks Gods, finally, people stopped thinking that I have some kind of March-level planning and scheming Thinker power... New perk? WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE IT NOW?!!! :rage:"
:V

@Transreal Cloud in the Reference Doc, you miscalculated chances of Magitek Mastery perk. That perk presents in both Magic and Magitech constellations, but you count it as two separate perks, unlike "Feel It Out | Synchronicity Event".
 
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Why can't you use it to break down living creatures? Breaking down Sun Wukong is the only thing they use it for in journey, and they are surprised and annoyed when it doesn't dissolve him because he is too many kinds of immortal at once. So clearly they expected it to be able to break down a living divinity at least.

The example provided was one where the failure of the crucible to break down a living creature was a surprising exception to the norm, at least according to the post you quoted. I'll admit I'm unfamiliar with the source material.

I wrote the damn thing about half a decade ago so I'm more than happy to paste over what I said on the discord about this. If I remember right the decision was in part because of the standards of the time, jumps often erred in the side of weaker. However it was mostly because in the story Lao Tzu attempting to smelt Sun Wukong down was very clearly a last resort as a method of execution, not an attempt to make a pill or something, journey to the west is very much not a wuxia novel with modern wuxia tropes. If Lao Tzu could do that the culture of the celestial bureaucracy would likely be very different. Therefore the crucible was given a description that made it useful, but not capable of things that it clearly couldn't do in the story. I mean you could definitely kill someone by throwing them in, but not refine them into a pill.

As an aside I am always willing to answer questions about some of the shit I wrote with the tacit understanding that you don't go and read any of it, the level of quality I thought acceptable back then makes me want to curl up and die. If I was writing it now it would definitely have some changes to how it works, but that's my explanation of the item as-is.
 
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