Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

I'm not sure if Contessa doing lanything would benefit Joe, keep in mind, her shard, the Eye, is still connected to another Enity and it provides paths that are what IT (possibly Abaddon) chooses. And they all seem to be geared towards maximum conflict, likely to eventually map a future where it tries to take over Scion's shards as the new hub like in Ward.
The only Entity The Eye is still "connected" to is Eden, who is dead, unless you follow Abaddon-Killed-Eden-on-purpose theory(which has no proof and is just bullshit fanon) there would be no reason The Eye would still be connected to Abaddon. It would likely be geared to conflict, Eden restricted it at the last second, but it's not like a moderator is picking the best path for the cycle.
 
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Yeah, while Cauldron does have a number of questionable (read: stupid) ideas when it comes to sourcing their funds... everything else as all about making as capes as powerful as possible, and damn (most) of the consequences. Their efforts are mostly pointless of course, but they don't know that the like of Eidolon are singular in nature, nor why he's been losing power. But gambling on a stupidly powerful parahuman (or more likely many not-quite-as-powerful but synergistic) Parahumans is why they've gone to the lengths they have in preserving strong Parahumans, even the monstrous ones if they can still see levers to control. I mean, what would you do in the face of Scion? They've still got no real plan, but having as many tools as possible (that they can control/command/bargain with at least) can only increase their chances.

I'd say they're bigger flaw is that they aren't solely focused on killing Scion. They still have an objective in the continuation of civilization should Scion be killed and the Shards spread to other Earth's. It's the reason for the Brockton experiment, and the establishment of the PRT as a stabilizing force after-all. And in that regard...they've failed no small amount. Mostly because it runs against the primary objective (which we know is largely pointless as the Eidolon gamble will never win again), or some strange bit of nonsense (the Nemesis program, imprisoned and amnesiac C-53's when theirs all of Cauldron's resources to not be assholes or just dump them on any random Earth who couldn't spill secrets if they wanted too, etc.) Either stop pretending to aim for a moral path when the organizations MO is and always has been 'In the face of extinction, any alternative is preferable', or stop the low-yield and pointless cruelty completely.

Someone like Apeiron? They'd want to keep him if possible, even if they don't currently see any further growth. He's a powerful parahuman, he can be negotiated with, and he seems to at least have some form of restraint. At worst, unless he really spooks them (these being the people intimately aware of the death of all humans everywhere), he'll be manipulated into cooperation with the PRT (by hook or by crook, whichever seems more effective), or he'll be shoved into the Bird-cage where he can safely await use (and more likely be 'lost' into a Cauldron facility to be a problem solver.)

They aren't nice, are extremely ruthless, and they do have a history of questionable decisions (all of the above + letting the CUI exist)....but they aren't Apeiron's enemy. The only question is how he can best frame himself to be seen as an asset to be negotiated with, rather then a hostile to coerce or a threat to put down.
 
What I am waiting for is when contessa decides that enough is enough and attempts to assassinate him only for apeiron to go into his "strategy trance" and roll M/E, cause when she loses the triumvirate are going to need some brown pants.

Why would Cauldron want Apeiron's dead ? He is a powerful cape that might help against Scion. They would rather work with him (or at least leave him alone until it's saving the world time).

unless you follow Abaddon-Killed-Eden-on-purpose theory(which has no proof and is just bullshit fanon)

Actually there's an excellent reason to ascribe to that theory:

It make no sense that Eden would crash considering she is an all powerful entity with precog abilities on the level of path to bullshit.

On the other hand, it would make a lot more sense if Abbadon sabotaged/killed her through a virus in the shards he gave her. After all, Entities have a long story of backstabbing each others.

Damn a lot of things have been excluded.

That's kind of necessary, you can't expect the author to know everything well enough to write about it.
 
Actually there's an excellent reason to ascribe to that theory:

It make no sense that Eden would crash considering she is an all powerful entity with precog abilities on the level of path to bullshit.

On the other hand, it would make a lot more sense if Abbadon sabotaged/killed her through a virus in the shards he gave her. After all, Entities have a long story of backstabbing each others.
The shard network that surrounds the planet is probably set up to scan things to allow for simulation. I doubt PTV can work in deep space tbh. Also, entities don't backstab eachother or anything, the proto-entities warred, and the victor became the entities. They want data to solve the issue of entropy, why the fuck would Abaddon virus Eden(besides Abaddon being benevolent, but as I said, bullshit fanon)??? How does that make more sense than the data (likely sociological data) overwhelming her because of the way it made her realize the inefficiencies in the cycle and all the recalculations she started pulling?
If abaddon virussed her why would he not gather data from earth? You'd think he'd pull an Apopylion and do his own cycle on earth, no? Especially with all the effort taken to poison Eden. Unless Abaddon is just a troll I guess? But if that's what you're saying, I repeat, Bullshit Fanon.
 
The shard network that surrounds the planet is probably set up to scan things to allow for simulation. I doubt PTV can work in deep space tbh.
Didn't Eden or Scion predict Aisha's trigger (and everything else they were planning to set up on earth before Eden went splat, but the focus here was Aisha) in an interlude wherein they were still ridiculously far away from earth? Whatever limits PTV has that prevent it from solving all the Entities problems, I don't think that's one of them.
 
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Does anyone know if this Celestial Forge has access to Toriko tech? Gourmet cells + Life Fibers = ???
Gourmet cells are ridiculously broken though!

You can skin a bubble or store up power enough to consume later so that you don't have to eat for like 10 to 12 years... It is so broken that it'd be like giving someone the force in a universe without sith, or the ability to turn into a heartless in a world without keyblades.
 
Didn't Eden predict Aisha's trigger (and everything else they were planning to set up on earth before Eden went splat, but the focus here was Aisha) in an interlude wherein they were still ridiculously far away from earth? Whatever limits PTV has that prevent it from solving all the Entities problems, I don't think that's one of them.
I don't recall that honestly, but it's been ages since I last read worm... iirc those thoughts was right as she was crashing, but *shrug*.
Zion/Eden's og PTV was super costly compared to that of The Eye, so I have a hard time believing she would just simulate the next cycle in it's entirety from light-years away, but again, *shrug*.
 
I don't recall that honestly, but it's been ages since I last read worm... iirc those thoughts was right as she was crashing, but *shrug*.
Zion/Eden's og PTV was super costly compared to that of The Eye, so I have a hard time believing she would just simulate the next cycle in it's entirety from light-years away, but again, *shrug*.
Well, of course not the entire cycle. There wouldn't be a point to carrying out the cycle if they could accurately simulate the whole thing without running out of power or potentially missing an answer to solving entropy due to inaccuracy.

But I'm sure I'm remembering something here. I feel confident they used their powers in some capacity plan out people they wanted to trigger, factions they wanted to form, etc, but it's not like I could pull up a quote to be sure. Maybe it's something from Ward I heard about? I'm pretty sure there was a thing mentioned in there about how the PRT-successor organization, The Wardens, was actually the name of a faction Eden had planned to exist in the first place, however it is it being made later even works in light of that.

Does someone else here know more about this, in case I'm getting something wrong?
 
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Well, of course not the entire cycle. There wouldn't be a point to carrying out the cycle if they could accurately simulate the whole thing without running out of power or potentially missing an answer to solving entropy due to inaccuracy. But I'm sure I'm remembering something here. I feel confident they used their powers in some capacity plan out people they wanted to trigger, factions they wanted to form, etc, but it's not like I could pull up a quote to be sure. Maybe it's something from Ward I heard about? I'm pretty sure there was a thing mentioned in there about how the PRT-successor organization, The Wardens, was actually the name of a faction Eden had planned to exist in the first place, however it is it being made later even works.

Does someone else here know more about this, in case I'm getting something wrong?
Ok it's a long story but in one AU where Eden survived, or rather a glimpse of a plan/simulation she is planning out, her & Zion are the leaders of the Wardens, and there's an alt group called the Shepards who fight. I don't remember all the details of this plan, but at some point Eden uses a shard to rewrite a capes memories as he starts to figure out they might be behind the endbringers(they were blaming the shepards).
This sorta occurred on one of the earths, but I don't remember which.
The Wardens (post GM) are an extension/merger of that org and the PRT iirc, but I never got far into Wards.
 
As I interpret text and Lord's WoG, Contessa don't know about Aperion, he is in experemented BB and don't ping on current Paths (he dont plan to reveal Cauldron etc), Simurgh don't see in the future danger to Endbringers and Cycle from Aperion, and she don't "looking closely".
 
Why on earth would she ever do that? Someone whose power is constantly growing is exactly what they need to kill Scion. Seriously, she would personally murder everyone in the entire city to keep him alive and sane if she needed to. It would be a bargain. Seriously the last thing Cauldron wants is to kill the absurdly powerful parahumans. An absurdly power parahuman whose powers constantly grow at the rate his do? He could be aiming to conquer all of North America and they would be doing cost benefit calculations towards whether or not they should stop him.
Realistically there are plenty of reasons why she might want him dead or out of the way but in cannon I guess you are completely right. In character she probably won't kill him just going off all the bad decisions they have made regarding leaving other parahumans alive like jack slash. However if you look at it from her perspective realistically, even if she can't see how he will progress it is very likely that apeiron and Rebecca costa brown speak to each other. This would lead joe's passenger to out her as Alexandria to him. If he ever meets eidolon I would go as far as to say that it is very likely that he straight up murders him to stop the endbringers (there is a chapter where joe finds out that he shouldn't kill Endbringers without fulfilling a certain Condition) granted contessa probably would not see this but it is still worthy of consideration. Then you have to really consider that he might just outright attack, out them or wage war on cauldrons base as he seemed somewhat interested in case53's. Now you have to look at joe, he himself admitted when he revealed his original power that he might have been willing to do horrible things to his family instead of walking away without jumpchain and a shard egging him on. Also at the moment scion is being a hero simply because he was asked to, Eden is dead, the cycle is broken and the original plan is out the window. cauldron's entire problem with scion is that he is too powerful and too unstable. Now compare him to joe, if you were contessa would see eidolon dead, Alexandria outed, legend stepping down, cauldron's base(funds and resources too) destroyed and revealed to the world all in order to keep the guy who may very well be Scion2.0 around to fight. Also I messed up so I would like to change my wording, if contessa attempts to kill, kidnap or social fu him and he rolls M/E (Btw I know how unlikely it is that this happens however it would be pretty funny to see the timing so on point)

On the topic of PTV for the most part I just don't think about it. I'm sure if you looked you could find loads of plot holes in worm so I give the guy some slack and ignore it. For example I refuse to believe that turning the world into a shitty cheesy 90 comic book is best idea to save the world, however it does make for a good story.
 
Cauldron might not kill a powerful parahuman, but they should have no qualms dooring the Slug in at night to wipe his brain. Brainwashed capes never threaten Cauldron members, get moral qualms, or tell Cauldron "I'm busy, wait for tomorrow".

There's a reason why SIs and other OP characters better have Blank or the equivalent.
 
Cauldron might not kill a powerful parahuman, but they should have no qualms dooring the Slug in at night to wipe his brain. Brainwashed capes never threaten Cauldron members, get moral qualms, or tell Cauldron "I'm busy, wait for tomorrow".

There's a reason why SIs and other OP characters better have Blank or the equivalent.
Logically, the fact that Cauldron doesn't just solve all their problems with mind control strongly implies that they can't. Or in other words, brainwashed capes do threaten Cauldron, get qualms, or break free at the worst possible moment.

Like seriously, people - not saying you think this, but people in general - need to apply critical thinking here. If you're given an incomplete picture and there's an 'obvious' solution and nobody does it the logical conclusion is that there's somethin' you don't know about it that means it don't work.

What that reason might be, who knows? I can think of some easy ones - it's straight WoG that shards would detect and punish being played with low-stake playfights, so it may be the case that mind controlling capes sends conflict drive into overdrive long term and always ends in disaster for the world-be overlord. It wouldn't be any more surprising than Moord Nag getting nerfbatted.

TLDR, if Cauldron (or the PRT, or anybody) isn't doing something 'obvious', assuming it's because they're evulz, dumb, and/or Wildbow is dumb is lack of effort and imagination. Look underneath the underneath! Good faith attempts to explain the mystery are likely to make for more interesting plot anyway.
 
Cauldron might not kill a powerful parahuman, but they should have no qualms dooring the Slug in at night to wipe his brain. Brainwashed capes never threaten Cauldron members, get moral qualms, or tell Cauldron "I'm busy, wait for tomorrow".

There's a reason why SIs and other OP characters better have Blank or the equivalent.
If they were that hands on Capes like the Siberian, Lung, or a variety of other S-class threats wouldn't just be running around. Jack is pretty much the only one they have a solid model on being important in more then just (seemingly) his power. They let lots of dangerous and destructive Parahumans roam because they cause more triggers, and are ultimately ones that Cauldron thinks can be levered into usefulness when the time comes. For some of them, that means being secured into the Bird-cage or a Cauldron facility, but it definitely isn't all or most. Parahumans are at their most effective when they can do their own thing and be empowered by thier shard, and this goes doubly for growing Parahumans. Apeiron would have to really go out of his way for them to try kidnapping and brain-washing him.

If there is some sort of issue where Apeiron discovers their influence, Contessa can just diplomance things. What is he going to do? Not be swayed by the nearly all-knowing model builder thinker? His constantly changing powers might throw her for a loop, but his personality sure won't. People are already routinely overwhelmed by dumb social media and marketing AI. Why even bother fighting, subduing, and crippling a potential asset when you can just talk them over (Apeiron might get a power to block direct prediction, but he's still model-able, and still susceptible to conventional arguments like any non-zealot)? It's not even like their position is a hard one to argue for. 'Help us save everyone, everywhere, or get out of our way'.
 
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Logically, the fact that Cauldron doesn't just solve all their problems with mind control strongly implies that they can't. Or in other words, brainwashed capes do threaten Cauldron, get qualms, or break free at the worst possible moment.

Like seriously, people - not saying you think this, but people in general - need to apply critical thinking here. If you're given an incomplete picture and there's an 'obvious' solution and nobody does it the logical conclusion is that there's somethin' you don't know about it that means it don't work.

What that reason might be, who knows? I can think of some easy ones - it's straight WoG that shards would detect and punish being played with low-stake playfights, so it may be the case that mind controlling capes sends conflict drive into overdrive long term and always ends in disaster for the world-be overlord. It wouldn't be any more surprising than Moord Nag getting nerfbatted.

TLDR, if Cauldron (or the PRT, or anybody) isn't doing something 'obvious', assuming it's because they're evulz, dumb, and/or Wildbow is dumb is lack of effort and imagination. Look underneath the underneath! Good faith attempts to explain the mystery are likely to make for more interesting plot anyway.

Don't they have the Nemesis Program, the program that relies almost entirely on mind control?

It's also stated that their back-up plan if parahuman feudalism is to mind control the villains using the Slug. So that means that mind control is viable.
 
If they were that hands on Capes like the Siberian, Lung, or a variety of other S-class threats wouldn't just be running around. Jack is pretty much the only one they have a solid model on being important in more then just (seemingly) his power. They let lots of dangerous and destructive Parahumans roam because they cause more triggers, and are ultimately ones that Cauldron thinks can be levered into usefulness when the time comes. For some of them, that means being secured into the Bird-cage or a Cauldron facility, but it definitely isn't all or most. Parahumans are at their most effective when they can do their own thing and be empowered by thier shard, and this goes doubly for growing Parahumans. Apeiron would have to really go out of his way for them to try kidnapping and brain-washing him.
im pretty sure they let jack run around to make new triggers they didn't find out he was inportant until dinah.
 
What is he going to do? Not be swayed by the nearly all-knowing model builder thinker? His constantly changing powers might throw her for a loop, but his personality sure won't. People are already routinely overwhelmed by dumb social media and marketing AI. Why even bother fighting, subduing, and crippling a potential asset when you can just talk them over (Apeiron might get a power to block direct prediction, but he's still model-able, and still susceptible to conventional arguments like any non-zealot)? It's not even like their position is a hard one to argue for. 'Help us save everyone, everywhere, or get out of our way'.
The only flaw with modeling is that it is not perfect as if he was pathable, assuming he becomes a blank. There can always be an aspect of a person you don't account for. Even if you can read someone like a book, just like in real life, you will never truly know everything about a person, and the flaws in Contessa's model that she doesn't account for could pile up to an undesired effect. This is especially so with some powers Joe may get or hide Joe's attitude (just like what he did against March in the latest chapter). Can't model someone perfectly if they hide their attributes or true feelings right? After all, Contessa couldn't account for the Travelers despite PTV or account for certain Eidolon's actions. Without PTV being able to Path someone, she'd just be a discount Accord.
 
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So I was wondering. What if Joe gets capstone booster first and Spark later? Since it's written he has ' moment of clarity' like, for ever would this mean no Madness Place?
 
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