Remove ads

Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Reader mode
Sterlyn said:
I think that's vastly overestimating PtV. It's very good yes, but it objectively cannot do the impossible. Her power is not about brute force, she can find ways to beat Joe yes, but in direct confrontation or under circumstances we dictate that favors Joe? No. absolutely not.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I really cannot stress enough how vastly overpowered PtV is. People complain about March being ridiculous, but Contessa makes her look like an ant with delusions of grandeur. Canonically, Contessa beats the Simurgh.
 
If Contessa fought Joe it would probably be a psychological attack, it would put herself into a perfect position so Joe has to listen to her and talk with the perfect pitch and with the perfect words to make Joe incredible depressed, depressed enough to allow Contessa to kill them
 
So how effective do you think the various repair perks are? For example, how long would it take for Aperion to restore buildings that had been destroyed during one of his cape fights?

Imagine the public reaction to that. Oh, your entire apartment building was felled when I threw Lung into it? That is my bad. Here, let me fix that for you. *five minutes later* There you go, better than new (literally). I even upgraded all the wiring, plumbing and appliances in the building.

That is some PR that no Protectorate/PRT division is going to be able to compete with.
 
SIDoragon said:
So how effective do you think the various repair perks are? For example, how long would it take for Aperion to restore buildings that had been destroyed during one of his cape fights?

Imagine the public reaction to that. Oh, your entire apartment building was felled when I threw Lung into it? That is my bad. Here, let me fix that for you. *five minutes later* There you go, better than new (literally). I even upgraded all the wiring, plumbing and appliances in the building.

That is some PR that no Protectorate/PRT division is going to be able to compete with.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm of the opinion that Joe could remake the city in less than a day with a good enough Transmutation Circle.
 
Lightwavers said:
You vastly underestimate the power of PtV. Remember that scene where Eidolon tuned into a danger sense power and idly turned it on Contessa, and it freaked the fuck out? There are any number of ways Contessa could absolutely destroy Joe, even fully geared up, even with all his S-class threats fully unleashed. It's not even a question. Unless he specifically has some ability or tech that blocks her, she wins. Her first real action as a parahuman was murdering a whole-ass entity, and the only reason she didn't proceed to rip Scion apart after that is because Eden's last act was to limit her Shard. Contessa could out-Simurgh the Simurgh if the Endbringers weren't blank spots.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

PtV only won against Eden because Eden had a weakness. She had a point were a knife could lobotomize her.

But Apeiron ? The very first perk he got, Fashion, explicitly make ALL his body (and his cloths) as solid as the strongest material he have. Now that he have bullshit material like celestial bronze, it's impossible to damage him with normal attacks. He doesn't have weak points. Contessa can hit him with her bullshit auto-aim, but she can't damage him.

(Annihilator effect can damage him, but Contessa don't have one so that's moot.)

Now to be fair, Apeiron can't hit Contessa either. That fight would be a draw.

Motorata said:
If Contessa fought Joe it would probably be a psychological attack, it would put herself into a perfect position so Joe has to listen to her and talk with the perfect pitch and with the perfect words to make Joe incredible depressed, depressed enough to allow Contessa to kill them
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Psychological attacks would work, but... Contessa still couldn't damage or kill Apeiron even if he stopped defending himself due to depression, because his durability is entirely passive.

Contessa might be able to convince him to work for Cauldron instead, but since his passenger tend to have fanon opinion, he probably would be extremly warry of Cauldron.

SIDoragon said:
So how effective do you think the various repair perks are? For example, how long would it take for Aperion to restore buildings that had been destroyed during one of his cape fights?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He have FMA Alchemy, so it would probably take a few seconds to rebuild a building.
 
Last edited:
Nimeroni said:
Contessa might be able to convince him to work for Cauldron instead, but since his passenger tend to have fanon opinion, he probably would be extremly warry of Cauldron.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If Joe was given access to the powers in a bottle that Cauldron has... what would he be able to do with that? Could he make them less risky? Boost them? Multiply them? Laugh at everything Cauldron has done and do everything they set out to do in a fraction of the time and without the questionable morals?

Their ultimate goal is to save people right? Rather than fight, wouldn't PtV want Joe working with them?
 
If Joe was given access to Eden, he could probably come up with an Anti-Entity or Anti-Shard weapon.

After all, he has all that wonderful biotinkering he hasn't explored in his specialties.

No one has ever given Zion a case of the Entity Flu, after all.
 
adoltin said:
Their ultimate goal is to save people right? Rather than fight, wouldn't PtV want Joe working with them?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

PtV don't choose the end, only the mean to achieve it, so everything would depend on what Contessa ask.

ltmauve said:
No, PtV is a shard. "Path to Pyrrhic Victory" might as well be its actual name. It wants violence, not peace.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's an Eden shard I think ? So no conflict drive.

EDIT: according to the wiki, it's not one of Scion shard, but it's unclear if it's one of Eden or one of Abaddon.
 
Last edited:
I think Joe has a nonzero chance of beating Contessa in a direct confrontation. PtV can't save her if she's checkmated. Contessa wouldn't expose herself to a checkmate move. However, Joe can still put her into checkmate by rolling a new, immediately relevant power during the confrontation.
 
As it stands since Joe got on Cauldron's radar all paths of him are constantly changing. He can only be pathed outside his workshop so no path connects 90% of the day. When it does connect it has to shift 2-3 times an hour meaning there is no consistent area of weakness to exploit. Some one once pointed out that those in the know would see him as a threat/response thinker/trump instead of a tinker. One thing Contessa can learn is his thinker power would push him away from joining Cauldron cause it views them as evil. Cauldron could also seriously be worried direct access to Contessa granting him a total thinker blank instead of his usual anti-thinker abilities. They could get this idea from how he only dropped out of being pathed semi-consistently after being challenged by the thinker March. Worst of all, once it starts being blatantly obvious he can turn other parahuman powers into tinker equipment no member of the Cauldron will want to be any where near him to copy their abilities.
 
Nimeroni said:
PtV only won against Eden because Eden had a weakness. She had a point were a knife could lobotomize her.

But Apeiron ? The very first perk he got, Fashion, explicitly make ALL his body (and his cloths) as solid as the strongest material he have. Now that he have bullshit material like celestial bronze, it's impossible to damage him with normal attacks. He doesn't have weak points. Contessa can hit him with her bullshit auto-aim, but she can't damage him.

(Annihilator effect can damage him, but Contessa don't have one so that's moot.)

Now to be fair, Apeiron can't hit Contessa either. That fight would be a draw.



Psychological attacks would work, but... Contessa still couldn't damage or kill Apeiron even if he stopped defending himself due to depression, because his durability is entirely passive.

Contessa might be able to convince him to work for Cauldron instead, but since his passenger tend to have fanon opinion, he probably would be extremly warry of Cauldron.



He have FMA Alchemy, so it would probably take a few seconds to rebuild a building.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Naw. Contessa wins, hands-down. First-off, Path to Victory isn't your usual power. You're looking at it too narrowly. She's not just a cape who can see the future, she's one who can pick any goal and leverage every resource that exists, or plausibly can exist, to complete that goal. You say she doesn't have annihiliator effects, but she does. Joe has no precog protections outside his lab, all she has to do is have her power describe the location of Bakuda's lab, signal Doormaker to drop the right bomb on him, and he's done. She is a sentence away from utterly destroying him.
 
Lightwavers said:
Naw. Contessa wins, hands-down. First-off, Path to Victory isn't your usual power. You're looking at it too narrowly. She's not just a cape who can see the future, she's one who can pick any goal and leverage every resource that exists, or plausibly can exist, to complete that goal. You say she doesn't have annihiliator effects, but she does. Joe has no precog protections outside his lab, all she has to do is have her power describe the location of Bakuda's lab, signal Doormaker to drop the right bomb on him, and he's done. She is a sentence away from utterly destroying him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She is also functionally a 5 year old in the body of a 40? year old. Her mental development is obvious in the Path's she makes.

If they really wanted to protect the Earth's from Scion, you don't need to kill God to do so. You set up a path to cut off Scion from accessing your reality. And because Doctor Mother is also a pre-industrial cave-woman who thinks of battle in terms of armies and heroic Beowolf battles, she isn't asking the right question either.
 
SIDoragon said:
And because Doctor Mother is also a pre-industrial cave-woman who thinks of battle in terms of armies and heroic Beowolf battles, she isn't asking the right question either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yikes wording, but yeah. She's a random doctor from Cotre d'Ivore who found herself in an alternate world and had to kill a goddess and process the info the toddler who helped her do so was giving her.
She came up with something ASAP, and then kept brute-forcing the issue, essentially.
 
The problem with Contessa is that if she can´t win you won´t get a chance to fight her, Joe has a non-zero chance for that to happen but Contessa has enough experience with thinker blocks that it isn´t probable until Joe gets transdimensional searching and travel.

If Joe tries to fight Contessa while she it's running a path ( and she its doing so 99% of the time) then his atempt to do so is gonna fail because his shard has already seen this possibility and has a counter that requires it for Contessa to be there.
Even if Contessa wasn´t running a path she could win easily by distracting him with a psycological atack that destroys him ( You needed worthy opponents style) and then running away with Doorman and then just collect everything that needs to kill him withouth any danger
 
SIDoragon said:
So how effective do you think the various repair perks are? For example, how long would it take for Aperion to restore buildings that had been destroyed during one of his cape fights?

Imagine the public reaction to that. Oh, your entire apartment building was felled when I threw Lung into it? That is my bad. Here, let me fix that for you. *five minutes later* There you go, better than new (literally). I even upgraded all the wiring, plumbing and appliances in the building.

That is some PR that no Protectorate/PRT division is going to be able to compete with.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It depends on how far he wants to go. If Joe just wants amazing looking but not that much enchantment he can s just use FMAB alchemy and pop new houses into place.

If he wanted to go all in, he's can make divine house that act as a part of a network with Bastion tech which would span a large section of the city and would allow him to bring back anyone who died on anything other than old age back to life.

as for the houses themselves he can outfit all of them to an extreme limit since he can use super scientific solution as they are homes. And probably make entire neighbourhoods safe from gangs due to what SSS can do. He can make it so any unwanted attack at a home of break in would Yeet the person to the bay.
 
TitanFrost said:
This is 100% fanon.

I don't have much more to add than that. It's just wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's at least popular enough to be on the worm wiki, although the wiki doesn't provide direct quote to either word of god or Worm itself (so take that with a grain of salt).
Contessa choose her path from when she was a young girl and followed it unflinching for decades. Thanks to her power it is reasonable to assume that like her opponent she was shielded from the psychological stimulation that lends itself to maturity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

zerak said:
as for the houses themselves he can outfit all of them to an extreme limit since he can use super scientific solution as they are homes. And probably make entire neighbourhoods safe from gangs due to what SSS can do. He can make it so any unwanted attack at a home of break in would Yeet the person to the bay.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Doesn't Simple Scientific Solution only work on Joe's home ?
 
Can't remember, did Joe make himself something that can protect his respiratory functions?

Because if he's not, forget about Contessa, anyone can do the same thing Coil did in his interlude - poison Joe with gas. Lived like Hero and died like Alexandria.

Edit. Wait, stop, nanites... Okay forget about it, Apeiron is unstoppable in direct confrontation.
 
Last edited:
The Miniaturization power that comes with the anti-precog effect, that works on PtV as well doesn't it?

Also, could Joe build something to restore power to Eidolon/Eden shards?
 
Slentoru said:
Can't remember, did Joe make himself something that can protect his respiratory functions?

Because if he's not, forget about Contessa, anyone can do the same thing Coil did in his interlude - poison Joe with gas. Lived like Hero and died like Alexandria.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't think anything had been stated in regards to breathing except for the underwater breathing potion, but I'd be surprised if Joe's mask wasn't capable of allowing him to breathe in the void, let alone filter out poison.
 
Slentoru said:
Can't remember, did Joe make himself something that can protect his respiratory functions?

Because if he's not, forget about Contessa, anyone can do the same thing Coil did in his interlude - poison Joe with gas.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It was on his todo list, but the story didn't explicitely mention that he solved that one. However, keep in mind he have 1) a divine nature so he probably can no sell most gas 2) nanites that can heal him. I wouldn't be worried to much about gas attacks.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top