Foxy Boxes
[Verified Box]
- Location
- England
He'd have to drink a bunch of alcohol first though.
Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
- Start date
- Pronouns
- He
Wiki says 20.
Foxy Boxes
[Verified Box]
- Location
- England
"Souls are a bit like iron-"
"No they're not!"
"To me, everything is like iron."
Foxy Boxes
[Verified Box]
- Location
- England
Except miracles are divine.
- Location
- Germany
The Perk specifically states that Apeiron would need to be worshiped. That implies prayer and ritual. Clasp your hands, think of him and beg for his aid. Sacrifice animals in his name. Consume drugs to try and commune with him in the spirit world.
All while thinking him a divine being, which would depend entirely on the person.
Acknowledging him as divine isn't enough. You have to not only think, but act in a certain way for the Perk to take effect.
All while thinking him a divine being, which would depend entirely on the person.
Acknowledging him as divine isn't enough. You have to not only think, but act in a certain way for the Perk to take effect.
Foxy Boxes
[Verified Box]
- Location
- England
Implies is not means.
Worship, verb:
1. "show reverence and adoration"
2. "take part in a religious ceremony"
3. "feel great admiration or devotion for"
I'd argue she probably counts for 3,given her thoughts on how he's positively impacted her life.
I could also see her learning counting as 2, since crafting is his domain, and what he's teaching her.
After all, sermons are worship, Joe's sermons just happen yo be on star trek and star wars physics.
Fun aside thought: Daedalus' Student makes Joe's tech just as black-boxed as Tinkertech (except moreso)
Last edited:
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Except Aisha doesnt think about Joe as "God named Apeiron who disguises himself as mortal Jozef" or "God named Jozef who goes around as cape Apeiron". For her its "Jozef, guy who also Apeiron and may be god? may be not? a little perhaps? eh whatever, its awesome anyway"
Aisha thinks about Joe first and foremost as of human. Thats hardly a worship. Aisha is Joe's friend. Not a devoted follower. Hell even with Joe teaching her all kinds of stuff she doesnt really considers him to be... not teacher, I think weebslang sensei would be more appropriate here. Though now that I think about it, Aisha also doesnt really considers him to be a teacher too. He teaches her stuff sure but he is not a Teacher with capital T (ignore fucker in Birdcage, his days are numbered anyway).
Foxy Boxes
[Verified Box]
- Location
- England
She treats him as Jozef,who she knows is a god, who she admires for what he's done for her, and being a god, doing anything ceremonious with him counts as worship. She doesn't treat him as a human first, she treats him as Joe first - and being divine is not a separate thing, it's part of being Joe.
So yes, she worships him as divine. Abrahamic taint aside, it's not that uncommon.
Hells, being thankful that Joe decided to take in her into the fold is on the same level as being thankful for daily bread.
So yes, she worships him as divine. Abrahamic taint aside, it's not that uncommon.
Hells, being thankful that Joe decided to take in her into the fold is on the same level as being thankful for daily bread.
Last edited:
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Intentions matter.
I highly doubt any time you clasp you hands together and say "God" (probably followed by "dammit that was a shitshow") Biblical God considers it as an act of worshiping him. Hey, you clasp hands together as in prayer and utter Lord's name, how can this NOT be a worship?
...
Yeah, no. LordR ultimately the one to decide but I am betting that Aisha doesnt count as a follower. Hell, I have doubts that Chen counts as a follower since he also understands that Joe is just a stupid powerful guy way in over his head and he just runs damage control 24/7 + whatever time in simulation.
- Location
- Germany
The actualdefinitions of words matter pretty little in those documents. they aren't written by literature professors who have a thesaurus by their side. No, they are written by normal people who use terms in a manner as they are used in everyday life. Sentient being used as a synonym for sapient is the first example that comes to mind. And your normal John Doe, when thinking of worship thinks prayer, thinks ritual, thinks trying to commune with with the divine. So unless someone not only thinks that Joe is a god, but also through intentional action attempts to do any of those things, we cannot speak of worship.
Plenty of pagan religions were perfectly fine with acknowledging the existence of other pantheons and gods. But that didn't mean they also worshipped them.
Plenty of pagan religions were perfectly fine with acknowledging the existence of other pantheons and gods. But that didn't mean they also worshipped them.
- Location
- Behind you
You know what may end up worshipping Joe? The skulls, if they have any sentience that is.
I could have swear she was around Alec's age....
I could have swear she was around Alec's age....
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Oh absolutely. Though I think he still needs to suitably impress them so they can hail him as second coming of Omnissiah. I bet something from SW tech tree would do the trick like hyperdrive
- Location
- London
Joe already gets Mantra from the skulls through his position of authority in there religion, but they worship the Omnissiah and not him directly.
Edit: to prevent a double post.
What is the process to get hyper matter in BCF and Star Wars? Is getting other setting materials it no longer an issue for him?
Last edited:
- Location
- Odessa
Aisha: So. For a small offering once a week, instead of dying, I will end up here? Count me in!!!
Joe: It's not something to take lightly!
Aisha: Does offering you tea count?
Joe: Uh... Apparently it does... if provided via a proper ceremony or a shrine. Look, you will end up here as a soul without a body!
Aisha: Don't see a problem. Matrix admited that he can print a whole human body on demand. Actually... I can 'alchemy' one myself and just store it in a stasis field until I need it. Holy shit... Ups... I mean Holly Apeiron! I can go trans human without any surgery~!
Joe: -_-
Aisha: Sorry, honored deity, I will be sure to set up for you a mini forge in my room, but right now I need to run and make myself a 'designer' body.
Piggot looked at the girl confined in a master-stranger cell.
Piggot: What do you have for me?
Armsmaster: As far as we can tell, this is Vista or Missy Biron at every level that legally matters. She has her powers, remembers everything, passed all biological tests. As far as law is concerned, this is Missy Biron.
Piggot: And not legally?
Armsmaster: No thinker was able to find any foul play. Tinkertech scans, responses to other powers... everything matches. Between that, Apeiron's reputation and what we learned from cases 68 and 69, my assumption would be that this is actually Vista.
Piggot: So, Apeiron just Valzed In
Armsmaster: opened a portal to the doorframe in the lobby
Piggot: then dropped a formerly Dead ward
Armsmaster: Carefully deposited onto a chair
Piggot: now shell-shocked ward onto our doorstep?
Armsmaster: Just disoriented and confused. But in essence, yes.
Piggot: <Sight> And what did Vista herself had to say about that?
Armsmaster: That Mommon usurped Hell, enslaved the denizens or put them into bottles and turned the whole place into his workshop.
Piggot: Mommon? Nevermind. Why in such case did he decide to return her and not 'put into a bottle' like the rest?
Armsmaster: Vista thinks that she pissed Apeiron off enough that Apeiron decided that Vista can keep being our problem.
Last edited:
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I fear what was Garment's reaction when she overheard "designer body"
Also imagine Brian walking into Aisha's room only to find small anvil and smith hammer with Aisha using it to strike iron ingot while praying to Apeiron for revelation of grand design. I am pretty sure he would get aneurysm AND heart attack right then and there
Do you think that Piggot will end up in the Warehouse since she ascribes so much insight and planning ability to Joe?
- Location
- Germany
No. That's not worship.
Something be seen as a god, won't be seen as that by Aisha because she has seen his humanity even if she knows he has "god like" abelites. Missy also wont
the perk has nothing to do with their joes actual power but about if people WORSHIP him as divine nether Aisha or Missy will do it as of right now for completely opposite reasons. Anyone else on earth bet is a more likely target then those 2. I specifically started arguing because they where the once mentioned specifically and I'll stand by it until something major changes in story for either of them.
feel free to disagree but if you do define worship for me in the context of the perk. it's not whether you "like" someone or not nor is it based on strength or power or being "supernatural"
Couldn't have said it better myaself
this doesn't even qualify in christianity as worship concerning knowledge of and belief in the existence of God in a monotheistic religion (I can quote the bible for this), I doubt it's laxer in religions that acknowledges stuff like other pantheons or are you claiming that a greek accepting that the asguardians exists automatically worship them even during a war between the greeks and the nords (both the humans and the pantheons)
Yeah but in this case Joe has been careful to keep things plausible, if this guy saw him go all out, sure 100% but what you quoted is a situation where it's more a figure of speech and a praise of skill more then sincere belief in a divine miracle/parahuman ability
edit: I get that a lot of you think it should be obvious but that's because you have context that the people of earth bet doesn't. People doesn't look further then the surface if it fits their world view. And anything that's beyond normal human limits should realistically be seen as parahuman and not divine until further proof is actually shown.
The fact that I a genuinely religious person irl is defending this viewpoint is ironic.
Last edited:
I haven't been able to find the doc with the full perk list. Not the one's he currently has, but all the possible perks he doesn't have. Can someone link it?
okay, where is the list of perks he *doesn't* already have. Please please I want to see what's to come
theflyingbiscuit
"Titanic neechan"
If this gets out then you will be responsible for a lot of dead people, possible more than the Nine would have if you did not.
The idea that any person on the street could be a droid sent by the most powerful tinker to monitor the situation would be worse than anything this could get you and would lead to an endless witch hunt.
The fact that you can gift them with abilities equivalent to powers extends the witch hunt to include literally everyone. Sending them means the droids could be anywhere.
Here is hopping the whole body swapping this does not get out because of this, and that this needless zombie confrontation does not cause more problems.
Unfortunately, Aishia is not included in these plans so there is no one with the squire bottle here, to tell him how bad this idea is.
(That said while I don't think this is a smart idea, it doesn't mean I am complaining about it.)
The message given is actually "Stay out of Brockton Bay, if you are going to do that.".
If he wanted to send your message waiting until an arbitrary closeness before killing them is a questionable choice.
Like what if the Reno police got a call one day about their location and walked in to find the Nine pleasantly presented (possibly like museum pieces). Interviewing the neighbor show that no one had any inkling of it (the bodies were moved across the country, but they don't need to know that). That suggests that Apeiron can wipe you out from the other side of the country and keep it quite as a church mouse. That sends a more thorough message, then a big spectacle in his front door.
It's counterproductive to the goal of having people believe he won't leave the city, but the only way that the message of "No" is going to work, is if the idea of Apeiron coming to get you is enforced.
Even Apeiron cannot (metaphorically) have his cake and eat it to.
Broadcast: Good keep stalling.
As opposed to now?
Edit: That said characters are allowed to have dumb plans. It just shows how much Joe needs Aisha who will stand up and call his plan stupid. In any case, waiting until they know what to do with the Siberian is still the best plan.
Now if Joe would actually sit down in the chair and directly help Survey with what he calls a major objective... Just the ability to get proper confirmation would be so helpful.
Last edited:
AntaeusTheGiant
Child of Gaea
- Location
- Lawrence, KS
Brockton's Celestial Forge Reference
If you look at the tabs at the bottom of the spreadsheet, you can find perks currently available, called possible perks, and a few over is the unabridged list, which includes those LordR will not use until he becomes familiar with the settings. Many of us are hoping for Darksiders, but LordR has not indicated he is exploring such. Right now he is playing Bloodborne, so that may be added to possible perks soonish. This will actually re-open the currently closed Crafting Constellation.
- Location
- USA
Personally, I interpret the 'spirit' of the perk as; 'Someone who believes Joe is a divinity, and has a claim over their afterlife.' Or, at a more debatable minimum; 'Someone who believes Joe is a divinity, and has no other expectations for their afterlife, thus defaulting to Joe. Perhaps unknowingly or maybe even unwillingly.'
Aisha knows Joe is a divinity, and she knows the workshop is a valid 'afterlife' (like Joe wouldn't just resurrect her...) so she probably qualifies if she wants to. Alternatively, she could decide she doesn't want that, and reject Joe's claim. But I'd say the default for her is yes unless she believes in some other religion that takes precedence.
I can't see how thinking an entity has, (or at least could have if you let them or didn't believe anything else qualified), dominion over your soul and/or afterlife doesn't meet the standards of 'worship as a divine' even at very low and passive level. Acknowledging a divinity has, or at least could have, authority (for good or bad) over some aspect of your existence seems like a good bare minimum standard for 'worship as a divine'.
Making Missy qualify takes a bit more finagling. Does 'demonic' count as divinity, like an 'evil god'? Does cursing an 'evil god' count as acknowledging its divinity, perhaps even accidentally? Does Missy think 'Mammon' could take her soul, even if only at a subconscious level; like a 'what if' type fear? etc. Even if all are 'yes', does Missy believe in any other divinity or afterlife that would take precedence? All said, Missy qualifying is possible, but likely improbable. At least for right now.
If Joe ever lets out that he can manipulate souls and even resurrect the dead if he has access to their soul, a lot of people are probably going to start qualifying just by acknowledging, even unconsciously, that it's a possibility. Just thinking that he could take your soul if he wanted to gives him at least a little claim over it, and if there's nothing you think has a better claim... The requirement to think he's a divine will probably limit that to a degree though.
Aisha knows Joe is a divinity, and she knows the workshop is a valid 'afterlife' (like Joe wouldn't just resurrect her...) so she probably qualifies if she wants to. Alternatively, she could decide she doesn't want that, and reject Joe's claim. But I'd say the default for her is yes unless she believes in some other religion that takes precedence.
I can't see how thinking an entity has, (or at least could have if you let them or didn't believe anything else qualified), dominion over your soul and/or afterlife doesn't meet the standards of 'worship as a divine' even at very low and passive level. Acknowledging a divinity has, or at least could have, authority (for good or bad) over some aspect of your existence seems like a good bare minimum standard for 'worship as a divine'.
Making Missy qualify takes a bit more finagling. Does 'demonic' count as divinity, like an 'evil god'? Does cursing an 'evil god' count as acknowledging its divinity, perhaps even accidentally? Does Missy think 'Mammon' could take her soul, even if only at a subconscious level; like a 'what if' type fear? etc. Even if all are 'yes', does Missy believe in any other divinity or afterlife that would take precedence? All said, Missy qualifying is possible, but likely improbable. At least for right now.
If Joe ever lets out that he can manipulate souls and even resurrect the dead if he has access to their soul, a lot of people are probably going to start qualifying just by acknowledging, even unconsciously, that it's a possibility. Just thinking that he could take your soul if he wanted to gives him at least a little claim over it, and if there's nothing you think has a better claim... The requirement to think he's a divine will probably limit that to a degree though.
Thank you!! In case it wasn't already apparent, I'm a huge Warhammer fan, so I've been waiting for more from that universe for a while now. I also love Lord's adaptation of the Mechanicus skulls, making them lovable and stamps of purity for the AI's and stuff. I also may have screamed really loudly when their "Man of Iron Class anti-malware" got activated on Dragon and knocked her into next week. Finally I can't wait for Joe to find out why the Skulls are so insistent that the titanfall titans are not titans.