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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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Huh, I've been rereading recent chapters and I noticed something. This is how Leet describes the Game Grid that he's making, the thing that's supposed to shock the world and serve as his crowning accomplishment:
LordRoustabout said:
Not some hologram, or robot, or piece of technology aping at power. A fundamental expression of reality, the enforcement of a waveform across the resolution of the universe. The very fabric of reality expressed as data and bending to his control.
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And this is how Joe describes the digistruct power he got from Borderlands:
LordRoustabout said:
But not for me. I could see the structure of how digistruct worked, the enforcement of a waveform across the resolution of the universe, information expressed on the Planck scale, but manifested as a physically present and persistent effect. The union of matter and energy, or matter and information, how they could basically be the same thing, allowing anything to be scanned, stored, or recreated.
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Poor Leet. He's going to finally implement it and find out it's something Joe already mostly discarded for being redundant with his other abilities.
 
BagFullOfLizards said:
Huh, I've been rereading recent chapters and I noticed something. This is how Leet describes the Game Grid that he's making, the thing that's supposed to shock the world and serve as his crowning accomplishment:

And this is how Joe describes the digistruct power he got from Borderlands:

Poor Leet. He's going to finally implement it and find out it's something Joe already mostly discarded for being redundant with his other abilities.
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Leet: *Unveils room-sized Gamegrid*
Apeiron: *Reaches into belt for a chunky watch* "Oh, neat, you have one of those too. Here's one I made earlier!"
 
BagFullOfLizards said:
Huh, I've been rereading recent chapters and I noticed something. This is how Leet describes the Game Grid that he's making, the thing that's supposed to shock the world and serve as his crowning accomplishment:

And this is how Joe describes the digistruct power he got from Borderlands:

Poor Leet. He's going to finally implement it and find out it's something Joe already mostly discarded for being redundant with his other abilities.
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'Sniffs derisively'

Thats what Leet gets, for trying to out tinker the worlds greatest Tinker.
 
Man Lord responded some wog on magic systems and I feel bad on his description of fate magecraft:

"Fate magecraft is a mess. I have done more research on the mechanics of the Nasuverse than the rest of the properties in this story combined. I have dug through the truly monolithic amount of content, at times counting frames to scale the speed and power of abilities. I have seen direct contradictions being presented with a straight face and found multiple sources making completely incompatible claims. At this point I am quite frankly done. If the amount of effort I have put in this work cannot accurately represent the systems in play, then I don't think that the problem lies with me."

Cant blame him the nasuverse magic system is a mess since most of the magic system in nasuverse is for almost every character to break it and make an exception one way or another
 
The point of Fate rules is to establish background details for reality, then in one action sequence break it over a special snowflake character's knee-cap. Occasionally one of the previously presented characters will be used as a measuring stick for someone to beat down.

I do think settings that make a point of being more than rule of cool or discarding previously established details should be observed and represented, for consistency, but Fate and Consistency do not go together.
 
KnightofRoyalty said:
Man Lord responded some wog on magic systems and I feel bad on his description of fate magecraft:

"Fate magecraft is a mess. I have done more research on the mechanics of the Nasuverse than the rest of the properties in this story combined. I have dug through the truly monolithic amount of content, at times counting frames to scale the speed and power of abilities. I have seen direct contradictions being presented with a straight face and found multiple sources making completely incompatible claims. At this point I am quite frankly done. If the amount of effort I have put in this work cannot accurately represent the systems in play, then I don't think that the problem lies with me."

Cant blame him the nasuverse magic system is a mess since most of the magic system in nasuverse is for almost every character to break it and make an exception one way or another
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Fate's system is relatively consistent as long as you use sources like theory of magic.

The issue most people have with Fates system is Nasu often has characters expound on mechanics while being completely and utterly wrong or incomplete in their knowledge. Like anytime Shirou says something(such as when Shirou believes servants don't return to the throne complete with pictures only for Archer to reveal he remembers summoning in an internal monolouge and CM3 has a corrected picture that shows servants do in fact return to the throne). Or how Rin was a major source of information about the Holy Grail War, but one of the first things we see about her is that she was surprised servants are humanoid. Jeanne being a counter force agent came from a character who literally learned the counter force existed in that conversation. Etc.
 
Dylan101 said:
Like anytime Shirou says something(such as when Shirou believes servants don't return to the throne complete with pictures only for Archer to reveal he remembers summoning in an internal monolouge and CM3 has a corrected picture that shows servants do in fact return to the throne).
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To be fair (at least prior to Grand Order, dunno whatever was shown in it as i loathe Grand Order), Archer Emiya is a Counter-Guardian, and thus differs from your normal servant.
 
Yeah fate system is one filtered through unreliable narrator with some specks of truth around, we literally believed that magecraft was always there and it kinda was but "modern" magecraft is made possible by a creation of Solomon, that we didn't know until a lot later; there is also the fact you can say every and all type moon series occur between similar but different universes where the system may function a little different or such.
Frankly for it I just use this is based on a phenomenon or principle but magical, which it may have problems but is a lot more stable than trying to study cannon all 100%.
 
Dylan101 said:
Fate's system is relatively consistent as long as you use sources like theory of magic.

The issue most people have with Fates system is Nasu often has characters expound on mechanics while being completely and utterly wrong or incomplete in their knowledge. Like anytime Shirou says something(such as when Shirou believes servants don't return to the throne complete with pictures only for Archer to reveal he remembers summoning in an internal monolouge and CM3 has a corrected picture that shows servants do in fact return to the throne). Or how Rin was a major source of information about the Holy Grail War, but one of the first things we see about her is that she was surprised servants are humanoid. Jeanne being a counter force agent came from a character who literally learned the counter force existed in that conversation. Etc.
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Crake said:
The point of Fate rules is to establish background details for reality, then in one action sequence break it over a special snowflake character's knee-cap. Occasionally one of the previously presented characters will be used as a measuring stick for someone to beat down.

I do think settings that make a point of being more than rule of cool or discarding previously established details should be observed and represented, for consistency, but Fate and Consistency do not go together.
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Carrnage said:
That's impressive as the underlying metaphysics of the elder scrolls is only ever described through obtuse metaphor filtered through secondhand accounts.
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KnightofRoyalty said:
Man Lord responded some wog on magic systems and I feel bad on his description of fate magecraft:

"Fate magecraft is a mess. I have done more research on the mechanics of the Nasuverse than the rest of the properties in this story combined. I have dug through the truly monolithic amount of content, at times counting frames to scale the speed and power of abilities. I have seen direct contradictions being presented with a straight face and found multiple sources making completely incompatible claims. At this point I am quite frankly done. If the amount of effort I have put in this work cannot accurately represent the systems in play, then I don't think that the problem lies with me."

Cant blame him the nasuverse magic system is a mess since most of the magic system in nasuverse is for almost every character to break it and make an exception one way or another
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I don't understand the issue with it. Mystery is made out of faith. If you want Mystery to make some spells out of then you cultivate some faith. It's like a AIM Field made out of placebo effects and cultural paraphernalia.

It shouldn't even be possible to alloy Magical Energy into things to Reinforce and Alter them like it was in the Nasuverse except that the Earth Bet version of Nasuverse media probably sunk it into the collective subconscious.
 
Utterly Depraved said:
I don't understand the issue with it. Mystery is made out of faith. If you want Mystery to make some spells out of then you cultivate some faith. It's like a AIM Field made out of placebo effects and cultural paraphernalia.

It shouldn't even be possible to alloy Magical Energy into things to Reinforce and Alter them like it was in the Nasuverse except that the Earth Bet version of Nasuverse media probably sunk it into the collective subconscious.
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So mystery ain't exactly faith, it has some of it and some "fake it until you make it mentality" but it also requires study of phenomenon that are replicable with it, thats the whole foundation of alchemy; so each style of magecraft is its own style of manipulating the world through mana, it may not have a total rational one but are consistent with it.
Mystery also has to be with age, older in nasuverse generally means stronger this is explained that their mystery is heavier, like Anima Beyond Fantasy Gnosis, which for anyone not in the know is your metaphysical weight the more you have the ones that have lower Gnosis have a harder time to damage you but Can by bypassed with some artifacts.
 
supermou3ad said:
Can someone tell me what does the device that leet is working do.
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We don't have any clear idea of what the Game Grid does, but off the top of my head, here is what we do know:
1) It involves enough tech that it will cost Leet a lot, if not most, of his tech trees. This is the reason why he wants to have it done correctly on the first try. (Leet Interlude II)
2) It's a fairly powerful effect, but it will at most hinder Joe in whatever it does, not defeat him. (WoG)
 
readerdreamer said:
We don't have any clear idea of what the Game Grid does, but off the top of my head, here is what we do know:
1) It involves enough tech that it will cost Leet a lot, if not most, of his tech trees. This is the reason why he wants to have it done correctly on the first try. (Leet Interlude II)
2) It's a fairly powerful effect, but it will at most hinder Joe in whatever it does, not defeat him. (WoG)
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Specifically, Leet is going to use the entirety of his dimensional tech tree, which he has never used due to fear of the authorities cracking down on him (not sure how canonical that is, but it's the case for this story).
 
Luckyplucky21 said:
So mystery ain't exactly faith, it has some of it and some "fake it until you make it mentality" but it also requires study of phenomenon that are replicable with it, thats the whole foundation of alchemy; so each style of magecraft is its own style of manipulating the world through mana, it may not have a total rational one but are consistent with it.
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Yeah as I said; like a AIM Field made out of placebo effects and cultural paraphernalia.
Luckyplucky21 said:
Mystery also has to be with age, older in nasuverse generally means stronger this is explained that their mystery is heavier, like Anima Beyond Fantasy Gnosis, which for anyone not in the know is your metaphysical weight the more you have the ones that have lower Gnosis have a harder time to damage you but Can by bypassed with some artifacts.
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Given the nasuverses atemporal nature it doesn't make sense for precedent, in and of itself, to be a source of strength for magical foundations so much as the amount of timeline that a given foundation is spread across.

Thinking about it it's probably possible to artificially make a magical foundation by making artificial time and space.
 
supermou3ad said:
Can someone tell me what does the device that leet is working do.
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In addition to what the other said, Leet is also inspired by Sleeper power somehow (again, Leet interlude). Considering Sleeper is some serious Shaker bullshit (he would be S threat if he was active) you can expect the Game Grid to be major and wide reaching.
 
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BagFullOfLizards said:
Also, Leet uses very similar language to describe it as Joe used for the digistruct power he got from Borderlands. So I would not be surprised if it includes similar powers of instant construction, storage and recall, and materialization.
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I'm personally betting on it being a artificial equivalent of Shardspace.

Edit: didn't L33T get a view of Shardspace with his own Shard being cut off from the rest of its Primary Cluster Network? It'd make a lot of sense for his project to be intended to fix that. Can you imagine the support that he'd get from his Shard to do that?
 
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Utterly Depraved said:
I'm personally betting on it being a artificial equivalent of Shardspace.

Edit: didn't L33T get a view of Shardspace with his own Shard being cut off from the rest of its Primary Cluster Network? It'd make a lot of sense for his project to be intended to fix that. Can you imagine the support that he'd get from his Shard to do that?
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Hmm. Thats strangely sweet, in a way. Although I think Cauldron might be a little ticked at Leet pseudo-resurrecting the Eden entity.
 
AmberSlime said:
Hmm. Thats strangely sweet, in a way. Although I think Cauldron might be a little ticked at Leet pseudo-resurrecting the Eden entity.
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If every Cluster-esque pseudo-dimension risked resurrecting Eden then they'd have been fucked long before this.

Also it's at least as self-serving as it would be for his Shard. His Shard being off of the Network is a part of why it's fucking him over so badly. More networking means more robust support means a healthier Shard/Host connection.
 
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