Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Which is the other hilarious part of it. Brian's done. Everything he was working for is already in place, and he doesn't know it. He wanted Aisha to have a safe place, somewhere she wouldn't run away from. And she's got it. She's happy. Brian getting custody doesn't help her any more. And, more than that, she's taking magical college courses, and is part of the most dangerous cape team (I considered adding a qualifier like "in the country", or "in the world", and realised that's still not sufficient).

She's surpassed him. That's going to be a bit of a shock for him to find out. He's defined by the need to protect his sister, to make sure that she has a better life than him. That's basically his trigger event, it's why he's part of the Undersiders and not just a generic cape tough, and it's why he's okay with things escalating the way they do - It's all worth it, if it protects Aisha. And he's going to find out that it's all for nothing.

You know, I always felt that Aisha is Brian's Dinah, the excuse he use for all the bad stuff he does. There is also that sometimes I felt like it was less for Aisha and more about not losing or appearing weak.


Rachel messed up with the solo job, but she has consistently been the one with the most common sense, just cutting the Gordian knot and stating the simple and obvious solution or pointing out the obvious or at least reasonable conclusion.

Which, considering her other team mates, aren't that suprising in hindsight lol

It's just proof that Rachel deserve the title of 'The Great' :D
 
If Survey and Tattletale met, they'd either be the best of friends or at each other's throats within moments. Maybe it'd even be a one-sided thing where Tattletale absolutely despises Survey and Survey's just trying to train the cute meaty AI to analyze better.
Remember how Tattletale responded to Joe's omnitool scanners? How will she react if Survey shows her the new scanners she has? Alec already joked about Tattletale lusting after the omnitool. How about Apeiron grade scanners/thinker powers in the only person she's met that doesn't cause a flood of squicky icky details?
 
Regent did kind of give the Piercing Question. What do the Undersiders intend to do when they are in the big leagues? What do they intend to do, after all this?

Suppose that everything works out as they wanted and Brockton Bay survives whatever happens and they remain considered as "one of the big villain groups." What do they intend to do from then? Becoming teenage warlords like in canon is a stupid idea because they know Joe would not let them do that. And if they're one of the "big leagues", they can't just do smash and grab jobs anymore like the bank was supposed to be.

Brian at least has an excuse - he thinks that the Undersiders has a chance to last, even after all the internal conflict. It's why he's going so hard for reputation, because he thinks that the contract with their "Boss" has a long term. But Lisa should know better. She should know that it is inevitable that either the city falls apart or Apeiron takes down Coil, those are literally the only possibilities here and if Coil is taken down, there is no way that the Undersiders will stay together. Why then, is she putting importance on long-term reputation, when everything in Bay right now is unbelievably short-term?
 
Oh come on Taylor. You where just talking about how crazy what he does is.

You still think he gives a shit about your boss? Think the seriousness Apeiron had with it was to do with a single man? When he can overpower the entire Triumvirate single handedly?

You underestimate how much Taylor live through her cape life. She tend to desperately grasp anything that validate her view because she is a broken, suicidal girl whose self-worth was annihilated in a brutal bullying campaign. For her, admitting that her self appointed mission wasn't why Joe think she's important would be the same thing as admitting that all her spywork was for nothing. That what she did was irrelevant. That she is irrelevant. That her life is not worth living.

So of course she think the super tinker care about her mission. Hell, she even wonder if Joe's gift had any deeper meaning, when it's obvious it was the Joe equivalent of picking the first bag he found in his closet.

(...damn that mindset is self-destructive. That girl need therapy.)

Speaking of Munckining, I was glad to see BCF Taylor already munchkining the bag Joe gave her. I also liked how she used it for the team, and not just for spiders. I'm guessing that she used her bugs to find an out-of-the-way space on a roof or in an abandoned building to hide the bag during the summit.

It might fit in her pocket ?

now all she needs is a mover power. AKA something to get off the roof when a rage dragon hears you.

Nah, she already have her clonebugs. You don't need to move if they don't know you are here.
 
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And the Undersiders charge into another situation without consulting their resident super tinker. I guess you could chalk it up to them being impulsive teenagers or even their Shards messing with their heads since Joe has been proven to mess with these sort of things by stint of being Joe
 
I would read a fanfic of that! Not write one though. I'm too much of a perfectionist to ever actually write something. The vaguely reminds me of a fanfic where Taylor becomes Butcher 15 (Quarrel was allergic to beestings) and isn't overwhelmed by the Butcher hivemind because of her being a master or something. It was fun to see a Worm fanfic not start at the beginning of Worm and see Taylor already in Skitter/Queen of Escalation mode get so many other powers to Munchkin.

Speaking of Munckining, I was glad to see BCF Taylor already munchkining the bag Joe gave her. I also liked how she used it for the team, and not just for spiders. I'm guessing that she used her bugs to find an out-of-the-way space on a roof or in an abandoned building to hide the bag during the summit.

Now Taylor has a Striker/Blaster Power (the magic dagger), a defensive Brute power (the armor), now all she needs is a mover power. AKA something to get off the roof when a rage dragon hears you.

I feel you on the perfectionism thing my own fic writing attempts have stalled out because of my own about it although to be fair my first attempt was a community involvement thing which lacked the community getting involved in and had me losing internet access for weeks shortly after starting and then being very busy and the other one where I tried to write it instead of just planning it in my head failed due to obsessive wiki walks to find details followed by the laptop I was writing on dying after I'd finished what would have been the third update (prologue + 2 chapters).

Taylor's costume actually has I believe she refers to it as a spade but its some kind of armoured container which I think is on her back that she stores a ton of stuff in like epipens and spider silk based on the dimensions the bag could have been folded or rolled up and placed in that. Additionally while I would agree a mover power would be ideal for that although protest actually giving her more stuff on principle its also unneeded as per wog Taylor's first thoughts on the armours uses were how it let her still use rooftops and not abstain from them because she could now jump off of them and as such was planning on throwing herself off of buildings to practice landings.
 
I don't understand why Taylor isn't planning to contact him in private for an order of spygear to use during her meeting with the boss.
What kind of gear? What else does she need besides her watch on standby?

Unless Coil requests to attend the meeting without those... which he likely wouldn't for a number of reasons:
- It will seem fishy at best to ask Undersiders to de-shield
- Goes against Undersiders' agreement with Joe
- More likely to catch Joe's attention that way (Coil can only assume that Joe likely would know that watches are off and that something got fishy)
- Doesn't prevent the meeting from having a normal recorder.
- Doesn't do anything about an insect master that is a geolocational and listening device by itself

In short: any additional spy-gear is near pointless. Joe can make some Gamer-like UI that shows civilian names over heads and some other ridiculous tech, but I seriously doubt Taylor will think of something like that.

heavily point toward stranger
Not really. Memory erasing river can point into lots of directions. Victor 'erases' skills, yet he is more of a thinker than stranger, it can be same for Lethe - takes memories for herself at distance (thinker/stranger), erases memories on touch (striker), a tinker that specializes in memories and can bring memories up or erase them with tech (source of the Tittle tech? Men in Black style erasers?). Or an outright Master that can manipulate memories to some degree (like "I love my mother. I hate that girl."). There can be some variety to expressions.

Maybe it'd even be a one-sided thing where Tattletale absolutely despises Survey and Survey's just trying to train the cute meaty AI to analyze better.
It also can end up with Survey squealing in joy and diving into researching intuition to implement one for herself, while lab rat Tattletale is terrified and keeps running or hiding behind Joe.
 
I cant wait for this all to come crashing down and Joe calls Taylor out for everything she has done. He told her repeatedly that she was mistaken about how important her mission was. Maybe that will get him to stop taking his 'shard' so seriously. He is already on that path already. He probably won't stop helping because of who her mom is.
 
I cant wait for this all to come crashing down and Joe calls Taylor out for everything she has done. He told her repeatedly that she was mistaken about how important her mission was. Maybe that will get him to stop taking his 'shard' so seriously. He is already on that path already. He probably won't stop helping because of who her mom is.

Don't forget that, even if he is getting away from the doormat mentality, he will feel like absolute garbage when he learns that he helped in part on getting Dinah into her situation. Yes, it's definitely not his fault, but he will still feel like crap over it.
 
Taylor, the man literally said that it's not what you're thinking about
multiple times
that's not up for interpretation
that's like saying no officer the traffic light wasn't red, it was just another green
 
he'd still be living with his borderline abusive dad
…where did you got that from? Since when Brian dad was abusive? Can you provide evidence?
Cops are often perceived to be racist
Again where is this coming from? That sounds like fanon
The Wards don't actually help him
That's debatable, and but I doubt any argument I make will get through
Being a supervillain is absolutely the best choice for Brian to make
Oh your serious, another defending this I guess
But in the Wards, he can't afford to care for his sister. He doesn't have a home. He can't afford to feed her, or provide for her. As I just established, he could go literally months between getting paid.
Where are you getting this all from? Especially the paid? And waiting months? Also what do you mean he doesn't have a home? Also can't feed her? Doesn't Aisha still get done child support through her dad?
And yet we see Piggot dock the Wards literally tens of thousands of dollars.
Ok that only happens once and only because of the bank incident because kid win thought it would be a great idea to unleash a extremely dangerous weapon at a bank.
Brian would still be living at his dad's home, with Aisha. It doesn't actually fix any of the problems.
Why not? Or is that just you saying so.
If the PRT get involved, the only thing I can see them doing is having Aisha put into foster care, again.
Ok? Since when was Aisha ever sent to foster that it require for you to say "again" and also that more your opinion on the actions on what the PRT would do. I can also say their as likely to try to help Grue as much a possible to have another Parahuman on their side

Overall you seem to have some serious issues with wards thinking they wouldn't help resolve any of Grue problems, honestly not shocking that's the usual thinking process most have about the wards or the solution for Brian situation and always say he's better off being a criminal
 
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1. …where did you got that from? Since when Brian dad was abusive? Can you provide evidence?

2. Again where is this coming from? That sounds like fanon

3. Oh your serious, it amazes how many defend so much

4. Where are you getting this all from? Especially the paid? And waiting months? Also what do you mean he doesn't have a home? Also can't feed her? Doesn't Aisha still get done child support through her dad?

Overall you seem to have some serious issues with wards thinking they wouldn't help resolve any of Grue problems, honestly not shocking that's the usual thinking process most have about the wards or the solution for Brian situation and always say he's better off being a criminal
1. He is known to be neglectful to the point he willing allows his daughter to live with a prostitute. Say what you will about a teenage girl being allowed to live with her mother, but the fact he isn't fighting tooth and nail to get her out of that situation says enough to me about his level of parental neglect.

2. Real life influence affecting opinions plus it is canon the empire has both multiple police officers and PRT agents on their payroll. This all but shows that in Brockton Bay the color of your skin affects how you are treated by police. I can't recall if it is canon or not, but I also believe it is stated at that the average E88 member gets out on the streets a lot faster than any one else after an arrest.

3. Brian started as an enforcer type is canon. He was paid under the table as security before Coil got his claws into him. Sure it wasn't a smart move, but knowing that a thinker got him into the life of crime is is easier to sympathize with his choices.

4. He is quoting the canon punishments for the bank fiasco. In canon the Wards are treated as a social club and PR team in every city but Brockton Bay. Pigot exploits this and pays them as a social club but treats them as actual first responders. You have to remember that Missy is still with her abusive parents, Sophia was left with her potentially sexually abusive step-father, and Denis's dad still has cancer even with a parahuman capable of curing it living within the city. The PRT doesn't help the Ward's deal with the situations they triggered from in canon so he isn't wrong to think it would apply to Brian as well.
 
He is known to be neglectful to the point he willing allows his daughter to live with a prostitute. Say what you will about a teenage girl being allowed to live with her mother, but the fact he isn't fighting tooth and nail to get her out of that situation says enough to me about his level of parental neglect.
Iirc yet that same father was the one that supported his own son on getting custody for his daughter, would explain where Grue got his intelligence from, iirc further Grue own dad saw himself as unfit. But then again we don't get a lot background on the father and why he didn't try harder for Aisha so all we got is speculation
Real life influence affecting opinions plus it is canon the empire has both multiple police officers and PRT agents on their payroll.
Really? Care to provide citations or WoG? I mean more for the Empire have cops on their payroll
but I also believe it is stated at that the average E88 member gets out on the streets a lot faster than any one else after an arrest.
Never heard of it and it sort sounds like Fanon
You have to remember that Missy is still with her abusive parents
Actually iirc Missy parent try their best to pretend after court incident plus I don't recall them ever being directly abusive to her except for neglect. Then again speculation, since most of the time Vista rather avoid her home and doesn't speak much of her issues about it. Which is quite curious are the PRT even aware of Vista family situation?
Sophia was left with her potentially sexually abusive step-father
Actually for a while now I've been trying to find info on Sophia background on that if the sexually abusive parent was canon or not can you provide citation or WoG?
and Denis's dad still has cancer even with a parahuman capable of curing it living within the city
I mean Amy doesn't take request plus she doesn't work for the PRT, also Dennis dad did eventually got cure in Sentinel 9.3. Tho honestly I don't understand why that didn't happen immediately it could because of Amy being busy, Dennis unwillingness to ask a favor or whatever again speculation
 
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…where did you got that from? Since when Brian dad was abusive? Can you provide evidence?
Firstly, I said borderline abusive, not abusive.
"Well my father is a hard man. Not the kind of man that's meant to raise a son alone. I wouldn't say he was abusive, but there's never been any warmth to him, no charming anecdotes, no fatherly wisdom, no throwing baseballs in the backyard. The extent of our bonding was in the gym, him holding the punching bag in position while shouting at me that I was doing something wrong, staying grimly quiet if my form, my timing, the raw power of my hits were all flawless. Or we'd be in the ring, with boxing helmets and gloves on, a thirty five year old man in peak physical condition barely holding back against his fifteen year old son. He just expected me to keep up or take the hits, and I didn't have much choice in the matter.
And Brian doesn't think he's abusive, but it's telling that he felt the need to clarify that. And no warmth, shouting, beating on him and barely holding back? It's not great.
Where are you getting this all from? Especially the paid? And waiting months? Also what do you mean he doesn't have a home? Also can't feed her? Doesn't Aisha still get done child support through her dad?

Ok that only happens once and only because of the bank incident because kid win thought it would be a great idea to unleash a extremely dangerous weapon at a bank.
The fact that the Wards can and do dock their members thousands of dollars mean that they're an unreliable income source. If Brian's trying to pay for things like rent and food for himself and Aisha on $7.25 an hour (and remember, I was specifically responding to someone who suggested that Brian should have approached the PRT after his trigger and had them give him custody over Aisha, presumably while he's still age 15) and he gets docked 400 hours pay, how do you think that works out? If you're a Ward you can't support yourself, pay for your own home, or food. It's a program that works if you live with your parents, or if you're in care. It's just not set up to provide an income that someone can live on.

The fact that it's a result of Kid Win makes it worse. Browbeat, Clockblocker and Vista didn't do anything wrong - Browbeat in particular has been there for a couple of weeks, at most, and still loses all of that money. Would you work a job where at any point one of your colleagues could do something that cost you hundreds of hours of pay? I certainly wouldn't, because I like buying food.
Why not? Or is that just you saying so.
For all the reasons I said? Brian's problem, specifically, is that he can't support Aisha. The Wards don't give him a way to support Aisha. Therefore the Wards don't solve his problem. I don't understand what's confusing about that.
Ok? Since when was Aisha ever sent to foster that it require for you to say "again"
From Brian's interlude

If he did, she would; she'd run away from home six times in four years, had gone from their mother's house to their father's, back to their mother's and then to foster care. Every time, there was a reason, some argument or incident that had pushed her. Any excuse would do, even a criticism at the wrong moment. The child services workers would put her somewhere else, praying for some stability that she would never have
Overall you seem to have some serious issues with wards thinking they wouldn't help resolve any of Grue problems, honestly not shocking that's the usual thinking process most have about the wards or the solution for Brian situation and always say he's better off being a criminal
I don't generally have an issue with the Wards. I just don't think it personally suits Brian, because Brian needs a reliable source of money and the Wards just aren't that. For most parahuman kids it makes sense, but if you're want to live independently, they just don't provide what you need. Most of your compensation is a college fund, and that's not useful if you need money this year. If Brian joined at 15/16 when he first triggered, it would be years before he could move out, get his own place and actually do any of the things he wants to do. The Wards just don't offer him what he wants.

He'd be better off being a rogue, but there's no obvious marketable use for his power. He'd be much better joining the Protectorate, but that's not an option. So, he's left with the bad option of being a supervillain or the much worse option of being a Ward. For Brian, being a Ward is literally worse than working in Burger King, because Burger King at least provide a reliable source of income, and that's what he needs. He doesn't care about a college fund. He doesn't care about fighting crime, or training to use his powers.
Again where is this coming from? That sounds like fanon
Splitting this out because I'm not actually talking about Worm. People often consider the police to be racist. This shouldn't be a new idea. If you've somehow never encountered this, I provide this song as evidence.

It doesn't seem controversial to suggest that in a city with large numbers of literal Nazis, racism might be an even more pressing issue.
 
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Firstly, I said borderline abusive, not abusive.
Interesting still would have like a citations for it
and he gets docked 400 hours pay, how do you think that works out? If you're a Ward you can't support yourself, pay for your own home, or food. It's a program that works if you live with your parents, or if you're in care. It's just not set up to provide an income that someone can live on.
Really? I mean it's kinda questionable if they can't especially with PRT backing and at least trying to accommodate the Ward that need the most especially with fact maybe they could provide Grue a home and food at least, even if may require to have a discussion with Grue dad for it. Plus I think your putting way too much emphasis on the docking pay thing, that only happen once in canon, and that just within BB by Piggot
For all the reasons I said? Brian's problem, specifically, is that he can't support Aisha. The Wards don't give him a way to support Aisha. Therefore the Wards don't solve his problem. I don't understand what's confusing about that.
I mean does Grue need to support Aisha? Couldn't the PRT resolve that for him? Like tho Wildbow WoG was kinda vague with this the possibility exist in this
Could the PRT deal with that? Maybe. Probably. Could they give him leeway? Bend rules or pull resources, as part of his bargaining with them to join? From Brian's standpoint, even if he's cynical about it, I imagine he imagines they could.
From Brian's interlude
Oh it was because of Aisha running away from home that make sense
If Brian joined at 15/16 when he first triggered, it would be years before he could move out, get his own place and actually do any of the things he wants to do. The Wards just don't offer him what he wants.
Isn't what he want is Aisha to be away from their mom? I get it's mostly about the custody but there's always other solution then just aiming for that like I previously, plus if he doesn't want to stay home he can just sleep in the PRT HQ or negotiate with PRT for affordable housing
Splitting this out because I'm not actually talking about Worm. People often consider the police to be racist.
So speculation with no citation or WoG on it, basically.
 
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I'm surprised the Undersiders haven't imploded yet. They are still together mainly due to The Debt and hopefully being able to pay it off one day.
Not sure why people expect them to implode.
Bakuda was less than two weeks ago, and burned into their skulls the importance of backup.

Of all five Undersiders, the only two with any experience of independent ops are Grue and Bitch, and only Grue managed it successfully as a lowlevel parahuman muscle for hire. Bitch was on the run from law enforcement, Alec is still running and hiding from his father, and Tattletale literally got kidnapped off a major street. And Taylor is lonely.

Dont expect the Undersiders to fall apart anytime soon.
They need themselves too much. Even if it doesnt look it sometimes.


Honestly not at all sympathetic to TT or Brian. Brian could have had custody a long time ago if he'd walked the straight and narrow, and his problems are all of his own making. TT is possibly even worse, as when she's handed an out from her troubles she still makes excuses because it's not her own plan. Her problems come completely from arrogance and her need to be the "smartest in the room." Funnily enough it's Alec and Rachel who are the most sympathetic, despite one being a recovered sociopath and the other possibly mentally challenged.
Brian is an eighteen year old black man who is the son of a black junkie in the neoNazi capital of the Eastern Seaboard.
Imagine what his life experience with law enforcement was like before he got powers.
People asking why he didnt go to the PRT havent been paying attention to relations btw the black community and law enforcement.

Tattletale has known Apeiron for around two weeks or so.
Asking her to put her complete faith in him is asking a bit much
She doesnt get the POV that readers do.

He's defined by the need to protect his sister, to make sure that she has a better life than him. That's basically his trigger event, it's why he's part of the Undersiders and not just a generic cape tough, and it's why he's okay with things escalating the way they do - It's all worth it, if it protects Aisha. And he's going to find out that it's all for nothing.
Thats not entirely true.

Noone's a martyr. Dude does enjoy the power if I remember his Interlude. Do remember that he triggered around 14-15, and is still 18 now. He's a street kid who didnt finish high school IIRC; I think he got a GED. It's entirely plausible that his models for what a secure, better life for his junior sister are not the same as his standards for himself.

Its not precisely unknown behavior among criminals.


Brian is written like a stereotypical gang thug obsessed with reputation, street cred, and prestige. Which is annoying on Wildbow's part. Its like Aisha's fate wasn't really the reason he did it. He just wanted to be a badass gansta'.(And I'm talking Canon Brian, not what Lord is writing him as. Which is basically canon Brian. IE, a fucking idiot who should have joined the Wards rather than go thug life.)
Because on the street where he grew up, and in cape life where he operates, reputation and street cred can be a matter of literal life and death. They keep randos from fucking with you and yours. Ask Barrow why he's spending so much effort and resources on ensuring there's Consequences for Uber and Leet, and that its known those consequences were from him.

Just look at Taylor's personal history; would she have ended up in a locker if her father had rep?

The black community has had a historically fraught relationship with law enforcement.
Its very plausible for the teenage son of a junkie mom to do his best to avoid law enforcement after triggering with a power while assaulting a man in the neoNazi capital of the eastern US.

EDIT
I mean, take a look at the black capes we see in Brockton Bay in canon: Grue, Chariot, Imp, Shadow Stalker, Skidmark.
Its notable that none of them ever go to the PRT willingly.
Or that, despite a sizable Asian population, we see no Asian capes on the BB PRT roster before Flechette shows up from New York.

There's subtle indications of BB law enforcement having a reputation problem among minorities.
Which makes sense, given that just based on the strength of the E88 in BB for two decades, local law enforcement will have a significant number of E88 sympathizers. Which is a rep that spills over on the PRT.

The Wards don't actually help him. If he joined the Wards two years ago, he'd still be living with his borderline abusive dad, he'd be attending school full time and he'd be earning approximately fuck all, if that - If you do the maths on the pay docking that happens to the Wards in canon, any of the first year Wards lose months and months of their salary.
Thats not really true.
For one thing, the PRT will make arrangements for teens in situations. See Theo/Golem's entire situation post-trigger. Or Flechette being shuffled through foster homes. Not perfect, and the PRT tends to prioritize its own needs; see what happened to Kenzie/Lookout.

For another, minimum wage for new Wards is just that: minimum pay. Besides the trust fund, the lore and textev makes it clear there have always been adjustments made for various capes depending on location, ability or need; Weld, for example, got a food allowance, despite not actually needing to eat, and noone said anything when he spent it on music instead.

The problem is, like many capes, Grue doesnt trust authority over him.
Both his parental authority figures are differing flavors of dysfunctional, and he grew up in a city where the city agencies were dysfunctional when not actively malevolent.

And he's a young black man from poverty. The US has never treated that category of human well.

You make a deal when joining the Wards for your sister custody (and your own place to live for both of you), not for money. Why pay a lawyer when you can throw the political power of the Protectorate at the problem ? Then if they don't honour the deal (or refuse to accept the deal in the first place), you flee the wards, kidnap your sister, and live the thug life. But at least try the straight path first.
Because you are then beholden to the Protectorate, who know your identity and those of your family.
And because you have the IDs of serving Wards and Protectorate capes, they are now obliged to take steps if you run off to join a cape group they do not approve of.

When that Ward in New York quit and joined the Adepts in the immediate aftermath of Alexandria's death, the PRT still made time to send Wards to smack them down.
And yet we see Piggot dock the Wards literally tens of thousands of dollars. At the most conservative, that's $20,000 between 7 people, or nearly $3,000 each. Browbeat, at least, is still on minimum wage. That's at least 394 hours of work to pay that off.
Early instalment weirdness at worst. Or Piggott was just talking shit to ignorant teens.
You cannot withold a person's pay for disciplinary purposes based on your own verbal say-so in a government agency; you have to actually justify it. Even the military have actual formal disciplinary procedures before they can dock service members their pay.

I mean, imagine going to tell Gallant's rich parents that he's paying a fine for collateral damage during a PRT-sanctioned mission.
Imagine the private lawyers, even before the Youth Guard get involved.


But Lisa should know better. She should know that it is inevitable that either the city falls apart or Apeiron takes down Coil, those are literally the only possibilities here and if Coil is taken down, there is no way that the Undersiders will stay together. Why then, is she putting importance on long-term reputation, when everything in Bay right now is unbelievably short-term?
For one thing, Lisa is a sixteen year old teenage runaway.

Thinker or not, teens are not all-knowing nor do they exercise the best judgement even when they have correct information.
And as someone who was exploited by her parents before running away, then got kidnapped off the Boardwalk in full view of the public and forcibly recruited, she has issues of her own with trusting people with power.

For another, what if everything implodes tomorrow? March almost killed Apeiron on TV three days ago.
What if Joe gets killed by an Endbringer or even just washes his hands off them and the Undersiders have to make their way alone?
I mean, this is not a new concept for cape careers to flame out; Bakuda's entire career has spanned less than three or four months.

Look at the timeline; she's known of Joe maybe two weeks, and in all that time, I doubt they've spent a total of twelve hours in each other's company. She's not been buddied up with him like with Taylor, she cant read him accurately, and everytime she meets him he pulls out a new trick or revelation that puts her entire evaluation of him in doubt.

She has reason not to count on Apeiron's longevity.
And if everything goes to shit, longterm reputation serves the Undersiders as a backup much better than anything else in the aftermath if they survive it.
 
Interesting still would have like a citations for it
Did the quote from 4.4 not count as a citation? I'll provide it again if it helps
"Well my father is a hard man. Not the kind of man that's meant to raise a son alone. I wouldn't say he was abusive, but there's never been any warmth to him, no charming anecdotes, no fatherly wisdom, no throwing baseballs in the backyard. The extent of our bonding was in the gym, him holding the punching bag in position while shouting at me that I was doing something wrong, staying grimly quiet if my form, my timing, the raw power of my hits were all flawless. Or we'd be in the ring, with boxing helmets and gloves on, a thirty five year old man in peak physical condition barely holding back against his fifteen year old son. He just expected me to keep up or take the hits, and I didn't have much choice in the matter.

Really? I mean it's kinda questionable if they can't especially with PRT backing and at least trying to accommodate the Ward that need the most especially with fact maybe they could provide Grue a home and food at least, even if may require to have a discussion with Grue dad for it.

I mean does Grue need to support Aisha? Couldn't the PRT resolve that for him? Like tho Wildbow WoG was kinda vague with this the possibility exist in this
Whether or not Grue actually needs to support Aisha is a valid question, but the point is that Grue thinks he needs to support Aisha, and makes decisions to further that goal.
Isn't what he want is Aisha to be away from their mom? I get it's mostly about the custody but there's always other solution then just aiming for that
He does not want Aisha away from their mom. She's already away from their mom and living with their dad. He wants her away from her dad.
My mother lost custody of her after child services stepped in, so Aisha's living with my father now. Problem is, he's not an ideal parent. It's been nearly three years, and he still doesn't know what to do with a daughter, so they mostly ignore each other. But she's acting out, getting into trouble, and she needs someone watching over her that isn't him and isn't our mother.p
So speculation with no citation or WoG on it, basically. Yeah no unless it's specifically confirm with evidence it would sound like Fanon
I'm going to be honest, it's pretty hilarious that you think the perception of racism in the police in the real world is 'fanon'. I literally don't know how to respond to that.

Is it fanon if I say that the sky in Worm is blue? After all, I don't think it's established in the text anywhere, so it's just speculation. Or, can we assume that if it's not otherwise stated, things in Worm work like they do in the real world?
 
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I'm going to be honest, it's pretty hilarious that you think the perception of racism in the police in the real world is 'fanon'. I literally don't know how to respond to that.
…I meant in-story, I was talking if there was any indication of racist cops, not from any source but Wildbows own through citations and WoG in Worm specifically(edit). I wanted examples. Your just involving IRL, what I found hilarious you provided me none at all and that your telling that I'm calling what's happening in IRL is "fanon", I honestly don't how to respond to this, do I need to clearer then this?
Is it fanon if I say that the sky in Worm is blue? After all, I don't think it's established in the text anywhere, so it's just speculation. Or, can we assume that if it's not otherwise stated, things in Worm work like they do in the real world?
I don't know in the grass green in Worm? Am I seeing someone that is provide speculation as fact? Or am I not being clear enough because all I was asking for instances for it in-story of Worm just so they support their point without and they don't seem to be good enough to actually make an effort for it
Did the quote from 4.4 not count as a citation? I'll provide it again if it helps
Sorry if I wasn't clear I meant the specific chapter you got that quote from
Whether or not Grue actually needs to support Aisha is a valid question, but the point is that Grue thinks he needs to support Aisha, and makes decisions to further that goal.
Fair
He does not want Aisha away from their mom. She's already away from their mom and living with their dad. He wants her away from her dad.
So I just saw the quote Grue dad seem to have a difficult time connecting with his daughter and trying to rein her in it seems. Does Grue think he can do better?
 
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…I meant in-story, I was talking if there was any indication of racist cops, not from any source but Wildbows own through citations and WoG. I wanted examples. Your just involving IRL, what I found hilarious you provided me none at all and that your telling that I'm calling what's happening in IRL is "fanon", I honestly don't how to respond to this
But I wasn't talking about cops in universe. I was talking about how, in real life, cops are perceived to be racist. And then you quoted me, and accused me of "fanon".

For my comment about the perception of cops. In real life. For things that clearly predate the point of divergence in Worm.
You cannot withold a person's pay for disciplinary purposes based on your own verbal say-so in a government agency; you have to actually justify it. Even the military have actual formal disciplinary procedures before they can dock service members their pay.
I'm pretty sure that you also can't send twelve year olds to engage serial killers, or have them murder clones. And yet the Wards do it. It's apparently canon, so we've got to live with the fact that it's a thing that happens.

For one thing, the PRT will make arrangements for teens in situations. See Theo/Golem's entire situation post-trigger. Or Flechette being shuffled through foster homes.

For another, minimum wage for new Wards is just that: minimum pay. Besides the trust fund, the lore and textev makes it clear there have always been adjustments made for various capes depending on location, ability or need; Weld, for example, got a food allowance, despite not actually needing to eat, and noone said anything when he spent it on music instead.
Oh, if Brian wanted to go into foster care, or move into the PRT base, then I'm sure the PRT could make it happen. But I doubt they'd let him live on his own (and if they tried, the Youth Guard would probably support his dad, if it came to it)

Both his parental authority figures are differing flavors of dysfunctional, and he grew up in a city where the city agencies were dysfunctional when not actively malevolent.

And he's a young black man from poverty. The US has never treated that category of human well.
But yes, this is definitely the more significant point. He's got pretty valid reasons for doubting that the PRT would be as useful as they might technically be capable of being.
 
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But I wasn't talking about cops in universe. I was talking about how, in real life, cops are perceived to be racist. And then you quoted me, and accused me of "fanon".

For my comment about the perception of cops. In real life.
Did you even read my reply? That why I said "citation or WoG" because I don't care about IRL and wanted specific lore on it base on the speculation you were making about Worm and then you proceed to misunderstand it, thinking what I consider in IRL is "fanon", but I'm willing on my part admit my mistake for miscommunication for not being clearer

edit: grammar
 
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