Oh god, that's some of the best written WAFF I've ever read. While I'd love to see a follow up, it really doesn't need one. It's great as is.
I don't know, I'm very curious to know what possible effect could such a divergence have on everything that happens afterwards. Probably gonna involve Shinji going apeshit in EOE when the MP Series start to gang up on Asuka... even while Asuka angrily complains about him butting in her fight (but grateful for the assistance nonetheless). Then Asuka quits complaining when one of the Heavy Spears transforms into a Spear of Longinus replica and almost runs her through if not for a timely intervention by Shinji ("Was zum Teufel?! Verdammt noch mal, das ist Betrug!").

PS: I apologize if the German is poor; got it from Bing Translator.
 
("Was zum Teufel?! Verdammt noch mal, das ist Betrug!").

PS: I apologize if the German is poor; got it from Bing Translator.
The German is fine, though considering the foul mouth I usually associate with Asuka, I'd more go, "Was zum Teufel!? Die bescheißen, verdammt nochmal!" ("What the hell!? They're cheating, damnit!")
 
Is it weird that when I first saw Evangelion the first thing I thought of when Asuka said the "Walls of Jericho" was Chris Jericho's finishing move Submission hold from the WWE?
 
Hey, all I was saying is that he seems to have made a genuine mistake in the terminology he's using, and thus should make sure he got his terms right.

The term he used, Begging the Question, is correct -- it's saying that having that mistake makes your logic invalid that's incorrect.

The problem with your logic is that your premise (Asuka is a repressed bisexual) is the same as your conclusion (Asuka is a repressed bisexual), and therefore you aren't proving anything no matter how much you try. If you want to prove Asuka is a repressed bisexual, you have to start with Asuka as shown in the series (plus the manga and Rebuild movies to a lesser extent) and work your way to that conclusion using proper debating etiquette.

This isn't really the correct place for that debate, anyway. It should go on an Evangelion general thread. Is there one of those on SV? I haven't been here long, and I've stuck to Creative Writing, so you'll have to find it on your own.
 
I did start thinking of... damn it. That OT3 everyone wants me to write after A&T and ACoS finish. This could be the PoD for that. It starts Asuka and Shinji earlier, but much more awkwardly, very uncertain to 'are we dating? is this a relationship now?', and Rei gets a chance to see it starting and as questions, becomes curious... gaaah!
Or you could just give in already. Like I say this as someone who doesn't care about the OT3 one bit, but when your characters have to justify themselves in-universe as to why they're not assimilating Rei, you're basically just lying to yourself. :p
 
The term he used, Begging the Question, is correct
<EPIC FACEPALM>That's not what I was talking about! Geez, I even quoted the passage--

it's saying that having that mistake makes your logic invalid that's incorrect.
... I have no idea how you managed to not see that I was saying exactly this.

The problem with your logic is that your premise (Asuka is a repressed bisexual) is the same as your conclusion (Asuka is a repressed bisexual), and therefore you aren't proving anything no matter how much you try. If you want to prove Asuka is a repressed bisexual, you have to start with Asuka as shown in the series (plus the manga and Rebuild movies to a lesser extent) and work your way to that conclusion using proper debating etiquette.
And herein lies the misunderstanding: I'm not trying to prove that canon!Asuka is a repressed bisexual. I'm trying to prove that canon!Asuka could be a repressed bisexual (which, of course, leaves room for the opposite case of her being simply heterosexual), and thus any fanfic!Asuka that is a bisexual (repressed or not) cannot be said to automatically contradict canon!Asuka's characterization (simply because there is nothing decisively for or against Asuka being bisexual).

There is a difference between saying that "this thing is possible within the framework of canon, though it does not have to be" and "this thing is canon, end of story".

This isn't really the correct place for that debate, anyway. It should go on an Evangelion general thread. Is there one of those on SV? I haven't been here long, and I've stuck to Creative Writing, so you'll have to find it on your own.
I think there is one, but IIRC it's been dead for quite a while... or maybe I'm confusing it SB's Evangelion thread.

Or you could just give in already. Like I say this as someone who doesn't care about the OT3 one bit, but when your characters have to justify themselves in-universe as to why they're not assimilating Rei, you're basically just lying to yourself. :p
He already outlined how the rest of the story will develop, I believe. Besides, he did admit that he may end up writing an AU spin-off that revolves around the OT3 (and perhaps other things).
 
And herein lies the misunderstanding: I'm not trying to prove that canon!Asuka is a repressed bisexual. I'm trying to prove that canon!Asuka could be a repressed bisexual
Well yes, but you could just as easily prove that canon!Asuka could secretly be a practicing Satanist, or a Skrull impersonator, or the anonymous author of a best-selling series of romance novels. If your only criteria is "this isn't actually proven untrue by canonical information and you can interpret some of her behaviour as being related to it", the sky's the limit.
 
"Asuka what are you doing with that pentagram?"
"I'm practising my religion you jackass"
"What sort of religion involves a pentagram?"
"Satanism"
"You're a Satanist?"
"Well we kill angels. So I kind of figure God' be pissed about that"
"...I concede to your logic"
"Good, now help me with the goat"
"Yes Asuka"
"Now say it with me Shinji"
"HAIL SATAN"
"HAIL SATAN"

"I feel dirty"
"Silly Shinji, that's how you know it works"
 
Well yes, but you could just as easily prove that canon!Asuka could secretly be a practicing Satanist, or a Skrull impersonator, or the anonymous author of a best-selling series of romance novels. If your only criteria is "this isn't actually proven untrue by canonical information and you can interpret some of her behaviour as being related to it", the sky's the limit.
... Except that all of those scenarios you've described are far from easy to tie into anything that we've seen of Asuka.

I mean, seriously, a practicing Satanist? She had ample opportunity to proclaim such beliefs the few times the topic of the Angels' nature came up between her and Shinji; and why would a practicing Satanist cite the Walls of Jericho, which is part of the Bible? (Not saying that someone can't write a Satanist Asuka; just that they have to admit that canon!Asuka, in spite of the room for alternative interpretation, is so unlikely to the point of practical impossibility to be a Satanist without something happening that led to her converting to the religion.)

An anonymous best-selling author? That is irreconciliable with her prideful glory-seeking personality, at the very least!

And for the record, IINM you wouldn't be able to tell if someone was a Skrull impersonator unless they did a poor job of researching the individual they're impersonating or they get physically injured in such a way that reveals their true alien anatomy. So anyone in the EVA cast could be a Skrull impersonator! (Well, except Kaji, because it's implied they recovered his corpse and nobody noted anything unusual about it; and then everyone who got tanged in EOE must have been human, else why would GNR/Lilith bother tanging them in the first place?)

"Asuka what are you doing with that pentagram?"
"I'm practising my religion you jackass"
"What sort of religion involves a pentagram?"
"Satanism"
"You're a Satanist?"
"Well we kill angels. So I kind of figure God' be pissed about that"
"...I concede to your logic"
"Good, now help me with the goat"
"Yes Asuka"
"Now say it with me Shinji"
"HAIL SATAN"
"HAIL SATAN"

"I feel dirty"
"Silly Shinji, that's how you know it works"
:lol Now I want to see a fic about this!
 
"Asuka what are you doing with that pentagram?"
"I'm practising my religion you jackass"
"What sort of religion involves a pentagram?"
"Satanism"
"You're a Satanist?"
"Well we kill angels. So I kind of figure God' be pissed about that"
"...I concede to your logic"
"Good, now help me with the goat"
"Yes Asuka"
"Now say it with me Shinji"
"HAIL SATAN"
"HAIL SATAN"

"I feel dirty"
"Silly Shinji, that's how you know it works"

Is there actually a fic out there where the Angels are actual Angels?
 
Is there actually a fic out there where the Angels are actual Angels?
A lot of EVA fics do that. Play It Again Shinji for example. In fact, in almost all of the fics I've seen where the Abrahamic God and/or Satan actually exist and do interact with the cast at some point or the other, the Angels have always been real Angels.
 
<EPIC FACEPALM>That's not what I was talking about! Geez, I even quoted the passage--

... I have no idea how you managed to not see that I was saying exactly this.

I was agreeing with you there. He used the correct term, but claimed it meant your logic was flawed rather than your premise.

And herein lies the misunderstanding: I'm not trying to prove that canon!Asuka is a repressed bisexual. I'm trying to prove that canon!Asuka could be a repressed bisexual (which, of course, leaves room for the opposite case of her being simply heterosexual), and thus any fanfic!Asuka that is a bisexual (repressed or not) cannot be said to automatically contradict canon!Asuka's characterization (simply because there is nothing decisively for or against Asuka being bisexual).

There is a difference between saying that "this thing is possible within the framework of canon, though it does not have to be" and "this thing is canon, end of story".

That's not what you said before. And I quote:

Which is why I'm limiting it to the realm of "it's possible, however (un)likely it may be" rather than "it's implied/backed by canon".

[...]

Everything I said so far seems rather straightforward once you start with "What if Asuka is bisexual, and part of her hostility to Rei was because she's secretly attracted to her for some reason or the other (perhaps purely physically, perhaps not purely), which clashes with her feelings of revulsion over Rei's doll-like nature?".

That's your premise, the thing you assume to be true before you start the debate. You can't claim something as your premise, then conclude "my premise may be true, and you can't prove it's not." That's not how debating works. Your argument starts with "my premise is true," and then you draw a conclusion that is different to the premise, based on information provided by said premise.
 
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I was agreeing with you there. He used the correct term, but claimed it meant your logic was flawed rather than your premise.
OK, it seemed otherwise when I first read the post.

That's not what you said before. And I quote:



That's your premise, the thing you assume to be true before you start the debate. You can't claim something as your premise, then conclude "my premise may be true, and you can't prove it's not." That's not how debating works. Your argument starts with "my premise is true," and then you draw a conclusion that is different to the premise, based on information provided by said premise.
... Dammit, I hate it when hindsight shows that I had misrepresented my own argument without even realizing it. It's times like these that I hate the fact that I'm quite unused to holding long conversations/discussions in English (very few people here close to my level of fluency, let alone on the same level, thus little opportunity to practice); I might have avoided such mistakes otherwise.
 
And for the record, IINM you wouldn't be able to tell if someone was a Skrull impersonator unless they did a poor job of researching the individual they're impersonating or they get physically injured in such a way that reveals their true alien anatomy. So anyone in the EVA cast could be a Skrull impersonator! (Well, except Kaji, because it's implied they recovered his corpse and nobody noted anything unusual about it; and then everyone who got tanged in EOE must have been human, else why would GNR/Lilith bother tanging them in the first place?)
"He loves you, Shinji."
"Who does? Kaworu? We're just friends"
"No, not Kaworu! God, God loves you."
"God loves me? Okay? I mean isn't that supposed to be the default state for God?"
"No..."
"On the other hand considering the stuff I've been through..."
"NO, it's... it's just an expression. It's what we say before we invade."
"The Germans are invading?!"
"Wha-NO! The Skrulls are."
"Skrull ain't no country I ever heard..."
"Aliens all right! We're aliens"
"Oh my God you're an Angel!"
"No, we're a different alien race trying to take over the Earth."
"So... you're fighting the Angels too?"
"I guess?"
"Are you sure this isn't about Kaworu?"
 
... Dammit, I hate it when hindsight shows that I had misrepresented my own argument without even realizing it. It's times like these that I hate the fact that I'm quite unused to holding long conversations/discussions in English (very few people here close to my level of fluency, let alone on the same level, thus little opportunity to practice); I might have avoided such mistakes otherwise.

Why do you think I don't debate at all? :D Aside from being an Aspie giving me an unconscious urge to back down when challenged, I mean.
 
"He loves you, Shinji."
"Who does? Kaworu? We're just friends"
"No, not Kaworu! God, God loves you."
"God loves me? Okay? I mean isn't that supposed to be the default state for God?"
"No..."
"On the other hand considering the stuff I've been through..."
"NO, it's... it's just an expression. It's what we say before we invade."
"The Germans are invading?!"
"Wha-NO! The Skrulls are."
"Skrull ain't no country I ever heard..."
"Aliens all right! We're aliens"
"Oh my God you're an Angel!"
"No, we're a different alien race trying to take over the Earth."
"So... you're fighting the Angels too?"
"I guess?"
"Are you sure this isn't about Kaworu?"
to be fair, Skrull invasion can in fact improve NGE Earth's situation :p
and no, that has nothing to do with my custom title :p.
 
Oh, the internet already existed for public use as far back as the eighties. It's just that accessing it via modem was a bit costly for most people.
Oh god the dialup bills. I remember when a 14.4 kbps modem was cutting edge. Hell as far back as 2005 i was using a 36.6kbps dialup modem.

My recollection of the internet was that it was only really taking off around the turn of the millenium - or at least that's how it was for sabah.
 
Oh god the dialup bills. I remember when a 14.4 kbps modem was cutting edge. Hell as far back as 2005 i was using a 36.6kbps dialup modem.

My recollection of the internet was that it was only really taking off around the turn of the millenium - or at least that's how it was for sabah.
To be fair, the contents on web/newsgroups/IRC were also more bandwidth friendly too.

When I had dial-up net I used less than 50MB/mounth.
 
See, this is what happens when Stryp leaves us to our own devices. Have we sacrificed a new forum member to ensure a friday update yet?
 
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