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Advice and Trust [NGE]

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JennyDracos said:
Or perhaps we're wrong about antimatter and it's not antimatter but negative matter with like charges but negative mass - I'm not sure we've generated enough massive antimatter to know the difference - and the AT-field pushes the negmat away as hard as it pushes real matter away, with the bizarre result that the negative matter goes through it. (F = ma, so negative mass means negative acceleration.) That's where the idea of the Dirac Sea comes from, after all: the idea that positrons are 'holes' where an electron has been pushed out of the background sea of zero-energy electrons lurk unnoticed and unnoticeable.
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As far as anyone can tell, antiprotons have the same mass as protons. Last I heard they were having trouble measuring the mass of positrons, but it's probably the same as electrons.

Thing is, if antiparticles had negative inertial mass, they'd be attracted by like electric charges and repelled by opposite charges. That's not the behavior we observe.
 
BG_Character_592 said:
Woa, suddenly had like 11 notifications. So this is what Stryp feels like when someone goes through the thread and likes everything :V

Now what does he do in these situations :thonk: Oh I know, I could post a preview of Blu-Ray Chronicles 3.33!

Kaw: "...I suppose that's the actual Angel."
Ri: "Interesting tactic. Use the Angel's own abilities against it."
Kaworu frowned, "...no, they're also Evangelion. What the hell is up with this world? I can hardly tell my own kin from those imitations."
Re: "To be fair, its not like this is your world. You don't have another perspective, other than this fiction."
The Wunder fired and destroyed all four 'Evangelions'.
A: "Why the hell don't we have anti-AT bullets?"
Ri: "There's a very good reason for that, Asuka. I'm sure Rei and Kaworu know."
Re/Kaw: "They're impossible." In tandem, flat.
Ri: "Exactly. The Magi said any potential bullet would melt before it even left the barrel. We thought about micro-Lances as well, but they're not exactly something you can miniaturise and fire. As far as we know, there are only three things that can penetrate an AT-Field: Another AT-Field of greater power, a positron beam of an absurd power level, or a Lance."
Mi: "...I think Rei and Kaworu are right. That world works almost completely differently from our own."
Re: "Considering a 'ragtag group of civilians' have the power and resources to fly a kilometre wide airship, a couple oil rigs and a small navy, something our NERV could not even hope to do."
S: "Man, a lot of things changed after I ended the world."
A: "And they're still more technologically advanced than us!"

I'm sure there's some people that'll be glad to know that they're just as confused at what the hell's going on, same as we were and are :V
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Looking forward to this Omake! I imagine there might some more Trauma dogpiling on Shinji and co.


Just to ask before I turn for the night:

What line or passage from any NGE Fanfic got the biggest reaction out of you?

It could've made you squee, cry, laugh or whatever else strong reaction.
I realize this question might contain spoilers for any fic you mention, so please preface it if applicable.



Shinji shook his head as he saw tears threaten in his Grandson's eyes.
"It's okay..." he said, reaching forward.

Was it?

He didn't know.

It didn't matter, though. Kaoru hugged him back tightly as Shinji
offered comfort. All of a sudden, his Sensei seemed smaller...as if he
had changed to a young boy.
He had. Looking at Shinji with wet eyes, a sixteen-year-old Kaoru
Miyazaki Langley Ikari stood there, sniffling.


 When I first read it, I read the whole thing to myself. This was the first I cried reading.​

​
 
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TsukikoHime said:
Soooo, if I'm ever in a Cold War missile silo and I'm surrounded in all directions by Ramiels...
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"Draw them in closer! I wanna hit 'em with my nuke!"
obssesednuker said:
Actually, most US nuke stock is about a half-megaton. We do have a number of 1.2 megaton weapons though.
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Given how damage/yield is a downward-sloping curve, it really does turn out that Bigger isn't Better when using nukes.
Dragontrapper said:
That, my friend, is what a Casaba Howitzer is for.
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Dangit, I was going to say that!
JennyDracos said:
Mind, a casaba howitzer means something in an atmosphere but not much. It's also entirely possible that it is the antimatter, not the energy released, that overloaded Ramiel's AT field.
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...eh? A CH doesn't depend on atmosphere -- it works equally well in vacuum. It simply generates a "tight" cone of tungsten plasma, for values of "tight" that equate to ~1/3 the conical spread of the same mass of tungsten, vaporized by the same nuclear yield, without the "shaped charge" bits. It was originally dreamed up as part of the Orion's drive system, after all.

The downside is that you still get just as much omnidirectional "bang" as if you'd used a non-CH buke, including all the rads and potential fallout. A DEW like the Positron Rifle was probably cleaner... if we ignore the side effects of pushing a stream of anti-particles through the atmosphere. :whistle:

Still, a Casaba Howitzer might make sense -- if a ~1MT non-CH contact det could breach Ramiel's ATF, then a smaller charge, roughly 0.3-0.4MT (using completely BOTE math here) should have roughly the same effect.

That said, delivery remains an issue, as pointed. One advantage to a DEW is that the target has to tank it, and can't use point defense (ignoring the classic anime "beam interference" that saved Ramiel from Shinji's first shot in canon). It's all "shields or GTFO," and once their ATF was breached, Ramiel was a (heh) glass cannon.

Anyway, getting away from exotic weapons tech and back to our WAFFy goodness... I anticipate Rei will be staring at Kaworu, rather than out the window, for the near future.
K: Why is she staring at me so intently? Is she thinking about terminating the threat I pose to Shinji and Asuka? I can't really blame her....
R: Just what did my previous self see in this... this stupid fish!?!? And why can't I stop looking for it?!?

 
Casaba Howitzers don't work equally well in vacuum, they work in vacuum. In atmosphere, they...kinda work as the tungsten plasma runs into a wall of air and loses most of that heat and velocity. That means getting it basically point-blank, to minimize the amount of air you are trying to get through. Honestly though I'm not actually sure how point blank; it could be that you could fire one from outside Ramiel's zone of annihilation and do some damage.

Mind you the positron cannon actually runs into a similar problem unless they rig a laser in it to ionize the air between the cannon and Ramiel; at that point, the positrons are perfectly happy to flow down the channel, and actually magnetically couple with the air around them so that all the positrons and most of the gamma radiation is going in the same direction, right into Rami-chan, up until Rami and Shinji's beams deflect each other at which point everyone not protected by an AT field or thick layers of lead and concrete are hosed.

Edit: ew! Why would I put an apostrophe there!?
 
JennyDracos said:
Casaba Howitzers don't work equally well in vacuum, they work in vacuum. In atmosphere, they...kinda work as the tungsten plasma runs into a wall of air and loses most of that heat and velocity. That means getting it basically point-blank, to minimize the amount of air you are trying to get through. Honestly though I'm not actually sure how point blank; it could be that you could fire one from outside Ramiel's zone of annihilation and do some damage.
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That's why you use a lower-mass element instead of tungsten; say, hydrogen. As for the atmospheric issues, to quote Atomic Rockets: "Casaba Howitzers fired from orbit at ground targets on Terra would be inefficient, which is not the same as "does no damage." A nuclear warhead fired at a ground target would do far more damage, but the Casaba Howitzer bolt is instantaneous, non-interceptable, and would still do massive damage to an aircraft carrier."

We aren't firing from orbit. We aren't even firing from beyond the horizon.
 
JennyDracos said:
Casaba Howitzers don't work equally well in vacuum, they work in vacuum. In atmosphere, they...kinda work as the tungsten plasma runs into a wall of air and loses most of that heat and velocity. That means getting it basically point-blank, to minimize the amount of air you are trying to get through. Honestly though I'm not actually sure how point blank; it could be that you could fire one from outside Ramiel's zone of annihilation and do some damage.
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There was an entire fanfic built around the question of what would happen if someone came up with a working Casaba Howitzer that could be fired at Angels. Regrettably, that's not the thing the story was remembered for.
 
Jake said:
There was an entire fanfic built around the question of what would happen if someone came up with a working Casaba Howitzer that could be fired at Angels. Regrettably, that's not the thing the story was remembered for.
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That's actually the fic I saw the calcs in. Mind you, it wasn't a proper Casabanca Howitzer, as the directionality of the blast was only partial, but it was halfway there. Of course, then it rather started getting crazy with the massive personality changes...
 
Jake said:
There was an entire fanfic built around the question of what would happen if someone came up with a working Casaba Howitzer that could be fired at Angels. Regrettably, that's not the thing the story was remembered for.
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Nor the giant flying Chain Rail gun....

Edit: Blake'd (Rei'd? whose the local ninja anyway?)
 
JennyDracos said:
Casaba Howitzers don't work equally well in vacuum, they work in vacuum. In atmosphere, they...kinda work as the tungsten plasma runs into a wall of air and loses most of that heat and velocity.
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:facepalm: Right, right, plume dispersal -- forgot that issue, sorry. My head was still more in "CH as drive" than as weapon. When used for an Orion, you're dealing with a "cooperative target," and have complete control over the range.

Also, for some stupid reason, when I read your "means something in atmoshpere," I somehow took it as "CHs need atmosphere to work," which is obviously wrong....
 
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Strypgia said:
Oddly, both of the next two scenes involve people talking to SEELE.
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I do wonder what the other discussion with SEELE will be :

One definitely will be Ritsuko vs SEELE.

But will the other one be?

Gendo vs SEELE or Kaworu against his "masters", aka "It's time, Tabris." I'm leaning towards the latter.
 
TheShiningSun said:
I do wonder what the other discussion with SEELE will be :

One definitely will be Ritsuko vs SEELE.

But will the other one be?

Gendo vs SEELE or Kaworu against his "masters", aka "It's time, Tabris." I'm leaning towards the latter.
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Who knows, maybe we'll see Kaworu finally defying SEELE and completely threw off both them and Gendo.
 
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TheShiningSun said:
This would add more Angst/Drama to Kaworu if he somehow had to mentally battle his former masters.

And the others can't directly help him and just have to watch.
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Maybe the hypothetical confrontation would be the final catalyst that triggers each factions (SEELE, Gendo, Shinji and friends, and Ritsuko) playing their cards.
 
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JennyDracos said:
Who knows? Perhaps the border of the AT-field manifests itself as a spectacularly intense gradient of negative charge, with an effect like the normal force but so much more so that anything that lacks an AT-field of its own doesn't have the ability to do anything more than splatter on the surface - but positrons, which have a positive charge, could splatter across.

Or perhaps we're wrong about antimatter and it's not antimatter but negative matter with like charges but negative mass - I'm not sure we've generated enough massive antimatter to know the difference - and the AT-field pushes the negmat away as hard as it pushes real matter away, with the bizarre result that the negative matter goes through it. (F = ma, so negative mass means negative acceleration.) That's where the idea of the Dirac Sea comes from, after all: the idea that positrons are 'holes' where an electron has been pushed out of the background sea of zero-energy electrons lurk unnoticed and unnoticeable.

Or of course it's the sheer energy discharge. Heat and radiation dropped on Ramiel's surface to a level that Rami-chan's AT-field simply can't block. It's possible that it's the directionality of it that works: absolutely destroying a positron beam width in from Rami's surface to the core, whereas a nuclear weapon would spread the damage over the surface.

Or it's the type of energy deposited. Positrons impact the electrons(?) in Ramiel's structure, annihilating in a spray of gamma photons which proceed to wreak their own special kind of madness. If it's the gamma that does it, a nuclear weapon might work, but the gamma effect of a nuclear weapon is pretty darn short-ranged in atmosphere. You basically need a direct hit with the bomb - you don't see gamma radiation in an atmospheric burst, on the grounds that there's air in the way and gamma quickly 'cools' to x-ray.

....Which is perhaps why Rei tried to plant on one Zeruel?

...Of course all this is irrelevant. The problem with using a nuclear weapon, or a zillion N2 weapons, or the Tsar Bomba, to kill Ramiel is the same one as the well-proven Eva with a prog knife. Delivery. Rami can annihilate anything that approaches it. To drop a nuke on it, you have to...well, drop a nuke on it, and Ramiel will simply turn the nuke to a spray of plasma with a gigawatt laser, along with whatever plane or missile or artillery shell it came on.





YEEEEESSSSSSSS!
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Hmmmm, that reminds me, does a 50 megaton bomb enough to puncture an Eva's AT-Field? or maybe the original 100 Megaton Tsar Bomba?
 
Dranndor said:
Hmmmm, that reminds me, does a 50 megaton bomb enough to puncture an Eva's AT-Field? or maybe the original 100 Megaton Tsar Bomba?
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Something comparable to a tactical warhead was enough to overpower Sachiel's and inflict significant but not decisive damage, so to kill an Angel outright I'd estimate you'd need something on the order of 250kt to be absolutely certain.

Pity about everything else in the blast radius, of course.
 
Jake said:
Something comparable to a tactical warhead was enough to overpower Sachiel's and inflict significant but not decisive damage, so to kill an Angel outright I'd estimate you'd need something on the order of 250kt to be absolutely certain.

Pity about everything else in the blast radius, of course.
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If 250 kt is enough, do you think a mass volley from multiple M65 atomic cannon - Wikipedia is enough to kill an Angel?
 
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N2 Warheads are proven to have an effect on Angels (for the life of me I don't know why they aren't used more.) So if one was quite enough to hurt Sachiel pretty badly all things considered, a dozen or so should have done the job. Best part is, I think N2 Mines don't have radiation fall out like their Atomic and Nuclear predecessors, so you can just bombard away to your heart's content. I don't even think Zeruel would have been able to stand up to a continuous bombardment.

On the subject of punching through an A-T field, I'll bring up something I thought about a while ago. What truly makes an Angel dangerous, is its A-T field and ability to wield it; underneath that, it's flesh and blood. Evangelions are effective against them because they have A-T fields of their own, which they use to neutralize that of the Angel's so they may engage. However, this begs a question.

Does this make Evangelions walking EMPs? With an Angel's Field neutralized, it's still dangerous but without said Field it should be vulnerable to conventional weaponry. At this point, could tanks and jets realistically bring an Angel down? Because I think they could, death by a thousand cuts and all.
 
Lord Sovereign said:
Best part is, I think N2 Mines don't have radiation fall out like their Atomic and Nuclear predecessors, so you can just bombard away to your heart's content.
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Though as Fuyutsuki said, you'll have to redraw the map everytime you use one.

Edit:Also, didnt the Angels was said to have regenerating abilities? If so, even if conventional weapons could harm them, they would just regenerate the damages inflicted, and i don't think they could overwhelm an Angel's regeneration.
 
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