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Advice and Trust [NGE]

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Matt R said:
I'm pretty sure Shinji had the A10 clippings against Sachiel, but no plugsuit. Same vs Zeruel.
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Ah right, it was in EoE that he didn't wear them. Since he could see outside, and by the efforts to "erode the pilot's ego-barrier", he must have been more than just dead weight in the entry plug. So it seems LCL is the defining requirement, the rest is just to do lessen interferences and boost the synch-rate.

(Hm, come to think of it, why was Asuka in plugsuit and in a LCL-filled entry plug considering Misato merely wanted to store her away in the safest possible place? Anyway...)

NERV measured an actual synch ratio between Kaworu and the EVA during testing, though, both in canon and in A&T.
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Yes, and Kaworu can set that synch-rate at will. That rather sounds to me that he isn't in fact connecting with the unit, but controlling it. And, as a byproduct, is basically fooling the sensors. I mean, we know that synchronization is soul-to-soul. That is after all why the pilot's mother's soul needs to be in the unit. And we also know Kaworu is controlling the Adamite flesh of EVA-02; he tells Shinji so himself. So it seems to me those are two entirely different mechanisms, and the reason the sensory data about Kaworu 'synching' is so strange is that he doesn't actually synch at all, but merely gives the appearance.

Cancelling the apocalypse by cancelling those trying to bring it about would eliminate that motivation. Heck, not only would it end the immediate threat; showing it could be done could change Yui's entire worldview.
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Hm, okay, yes, in A&T that's true. As for Yui talking with Rei... well, that depends a great deal on what she would think of her. Lost daughter of sorts? An insult to her, seeing as Gendo used her genetics? An abomination? Or just a random girl who happens to be able to synch with her by outside factors...

She'd have LCL -- left behind by the original body after salvage, assuming she got to him before he actually died.
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Yeah well, that is exactly the problem. The original post was about Shinji having been killed. If he hasn't already she has all sorts of options, like simply using her AT Field to protect him. But if he is already dead, she might be able to salvage his soul if she finds the corpse, but she would need LCL to let that soul reshape a body via AT Field. If you could use the old body, and use the soul's power to reshape it to be uninjured, the world would look a whole lot different, after all. Of course, there is more than enough LCL down in Terminal Dogma...

And if Rei can't find the corpse, she might actually need to go GNR simply to have him covered by a quantum psychopomp Rei, like Misato and Ritsuko in EoE... who died before GNR formed, but still had a Rei standing next to them as they died... and since Asuka is at the beach at the end, it stands to reason the souls of everyone who died this day were in fact saved. But that would probably then require the quantum powers of GNR to reach back in time.
 
Strypgia said:
@modigar, @Naughtilus, this is for you two. Kaji and Gendo cause some trouble for SEELE, and SEELE... notices.
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I-it's not like I read the whole thread because I like it, b-baka!
In all seriousness, quality update, provoking thoughts, speculations and on-topic discussions, rather than the usual shipping wars, screams of heresy etcetera, and even leaving space for omake creation. Personally, I'd like to see some spy-game-like side story spun. Hell, I might even write one myself, if I manage to squeeze it somewhere between writing stuff for school courses. I very much doubt I'd meet the quality standard set by the resident Brit, though.

NotYourParents said:
Seriously, the only way Seele killing someone would matter to him would be if they somehow managed to kill Yui while she was still inside the Eva Core.
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Funnily enough, I was just about to chime in that they could only really hurt Gendo through UNIT-01.


In other news, I'm picking up the slack, having reached page 606. Coherence is returning to me, although my dreams and the 'falling asleep' phase are still spiked with EVA, which is quite confusing, given that the other major subject of my thoughts these days is, well, a certain girl from my study programme.
Anyway..In hindsight, the reactions, suggestions and advice for Kaworu after the 9.16 update get even more hilarious in hindsight after 10.7, where we discover that the poor sap does not know how to discharge his positron rifle. I wonder if that part of 10.7 was actually inspired by the forum thread. Perhaps it is fortunate that there don't seem to be a trout-related male masturbation euphemism. (I checked. There is, however, a salmon one)
What baffles me, though, is how the shipping wars in thread repeat over and over, with the same people to boot.
For the record, my stance on shipping in general is that I'm the guy who would install magnetohydrodynamic drive (I saw The Hunt for Red October at a formative age, sue me) on an iceberg and merrily steer it towards the ships. I'm not a fan of fanfiction shipping in general. For some reason, the vast majority of fanfiction authors are obsessed with pairing, the fics simply MUST have ships and shipping, even if it often doesn't make sense. And that applies to the readers too.

That being said, whether the nephilim duo will end up as a romantic pair or not, it's the single most adorable thing I've ever read in the entirety of fan fiction I've read. And yes, that includes the slappy, slightly murderous parts. Sure, there are even more adorable things out there, but given that I'm not a WAFF reader and I have limits...well, does anybody remember the bug in old UFO: Enemy Unknown when a soldier's stat went over 255? Yeah, like that. Or if you're a programmer, integer overflow. WELL, that's actually what happened in the old UFO, with 255 being the max value for 8 bits.

And yes, WAFF is a bit of my guilty pleasure in the realm of fanfiction, which itself is one. Yes, I have guilty pleasures within guilty pleasures. Now excuse me while I go celebrate a friend's birthday.
 
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Naughtilus said:
I'm not a fan of fanfiction shipping in general.
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That's somewhat strange to say in this thread, as A&T is at its core a rather typical shipping fic, after all. That being said, I suppose what you say is kinda true for fanfic culture in general; like how in basically all fandoms the way fics are categorized is by pairing. That being said, I'm definitely guilty of that myself. As you may have experienced.

And yes, that includes the slappy, slightly murderous parts.
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Me, I try to blend them out. The "slightly murderous" parts, okay, that's kinda part of their drama, Adam vs Lilith. The slappy parts? My opinion is always check how it would feel like if the genders were reversed... Not so funny anymore then, so why should it be this way around?
 
The Englanderish said:
Kaworu: "Oh, I'll assassinate her alright!" [Cue him reenacting a certain scene involving Sokka in a tent with rosepetals.]
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Rei: So SEELE wants me dead? I assume you plan to do the deed by stabbing me with that fierce weapon of yours? Deeply, to the very center of my being, over and over again, until I cry out, and shake, and then lie still?

Kaworu: :oops:

Rei: :ogles:...You're adorable, Trout.

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Susano said:
Hm, okay, yes, in A&T that's true. As for Yui talking with Rei... well, that depends a great deal on what she would think of her. Lost daughter of sorts? An insult to her, seeing as Gendo used her genetics? An abomination? Or just a random girl who happens to be able to synch with her by outside factors...
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I'm thinking more in Rei's capacity as bearer of Lilith's soul, with a lot of her memories unlocked, and quite a bit of her abilities awakening. That's something I'm pretty sure Yui didn't plan on. A factor like that could change everything.
 
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Susano said:
Which does trivialize the act. Something that wouldn't happen if the genders were in fact reversed.
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But would it work as well if it was a girl who is incredibly, inexplicably attracted to a boy who seemingly hates her guts? Who he later become friends with and then gives a box with nudes in it to. That she then uses to drive herself to the point of distraction.

Or maybe it could, when I think it out.
 
Susano said:
The problem is not the hate. The problem is the physical violence. If a tsundere guy slapped a girl, how would that come across?
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It would really depend on the context, what propted it, and a bunch of other things. Would I find it funny? No. I wouldn't find it funny either way. If the one who received that slap came right back with a "please sir/madam, may I have another"? That's where the potential for humor lies: in the subversion of expectations.
 
MoroseMobius said:
It would really depend on the context, what propted it, and a bunch of other things. Would I find it funny? No. I wouldn't find it funny either way. If the one who received that slap came right back with a "please sir/madam, may I have another"? That's where the potential for humor lies: in the subversion of expectations.
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If a male character slapped a female character, and the female character then acts all the more lovestruck, I can almost guarantee you the feedback would not be great. The slap alone would be seen as absolutely unacceptable. As well as it should - but then, why not also the other way round?
 
Nothing wrong with a woman hitting a man. It's just that she shouldn't cry when he hits her back.

Violence equality, people.
 
I think the asset that is going to be 'taken out' is Shinji, mostly because Rei is a clone and thus can be recloned, the other people are simply workers that aren't really needed, Shinji being family and the person Gendo was able to call on to save him from the first angel attack would make snese.
Anther thing is if people fail to notice the attacker, everyone is at first going to act irrationally about it, and may very well take their anger out on Gendo.
 
Susano said:
If a male character slapped a female character, and the female character then acts all the more lovestruck, I can almost guarantee you the feedback would not be great. The slap alone would be seen as absolutely unacceptable.
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Stereotypes cut both ways, you know. The severity of male-towards-female violence is just as exaggerated, as the severity of the opposite is downplayed.
 
curiosity said:
Stereotypes cut both ways, you know. The severity of male-towards-female violence is just as exaggerated, as the severity of the opposite is downplayed.
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And wouldn't the solution to that problem be to simply cut away those stereotypes? And treat all violence the same? Instead of trying to make an oppression olympiad out of which side gets hurt worse by it...
 
Susano said:
Something SEELE doesn't know yet, though. In the series they only learn that after her resurrection after Armisael.
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Strypgia said:
"One of the last reports we received before this confirmed our suspicions. Ikari has dabbled in matters he was ordered to leave alone. He has taken what was not his. It is time he is taught a lesson about obedience. Order our agent to terminate Ikari's asset. We will teach him regret."
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considering that there is really only 3 things Gendo could do to and I quote "has dabbled in matters he was ordered to leave alone" I am fairly confident if they were talking about the stealing of Adam they be far more pissed however Cloning is something that would set them off as well.
 
Susano said:
And wouldn't the solution to that problem be to simply cut away those stereotypes? And treat all violence the same? Instead of trying to make an oppression olympiad out of which side gets hurt worse by it...
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Yeah.. good luck convincing society.

Edit: but the point was that in the example the feedback would be bad because of stereotypes, not because violence is bad.
 
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Susano said:
"nobody hits anybody"
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Excuse me my good man, are you familiar with human history? Even when poverty is no longer a thing, when everyone has enough food, and even if we do get a democratic world government...human beings will inevitably find some reason to punch the shit out of each other.

It's part of our charm.
 
MHJoker said:
Which leaves Ritsuko. She's important enough to Gendo's plans that eliminating her would delay said plans, but not important enough to completely stop said plans and make Gendo lash out. Her control and mastery of the MAGI systems are also vital, which means hacking them would be way easier without her to help. Eliminating her would leave a opening just big enough for SEELE to exploit when they start their end game.
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The real kicker is, if Ritsuko really is their target, it doesn't actually do much. Maya knows everything Ritsuko does, and the two of them are the only ones who know that (well, them and Rei).

So if they try to get Ritsuko out of the picture, and succeed, then congratulations! They haven't actually removed any obstacles, and they've pissed off Maya, who may very well go to Misato and Kaji and join the counter-conspiracy.
 
Susano said:
Just because something is, doesn't mean it ought to be. You said "nothing wrong with it". Well, violence is wrong, though.
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I fully agree with the former point.

However I would argue that the morality of violence is not a clean cut question of right vs wrong (If it were so, we would've solved the issue a long time ago ;)).

For instance, say you were in a situation where you were forced to fight for your life and/or the life of another.
In a scenario like that, to not use a degree of violence would be lethal.

Personally, I don't think that the use of violence is where is the moral issue lies, but rather in how and why it is used.
 
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