A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
A Fatesever PD grid on something as fragile as a Sloop is incredibly risky. Sloops are destroyer hulls which are the smallest type of starship we can build and don't even have the System Slots to be able to fit a Grav-Shield and Holo-Field without sacrificing on either speed or firepower (in this case it's ability to defend itself once it runs out of torpedoes).
Aside from that there is also the cost to factor in. A single Fatesever PD on an escort hull would cost 120 Psy-Scopes, which is an entire turns worth of Psy-Scope production being dropped into a single fragile escort not to mention the cost of that PD by itself would be more than the total NEP cost of a Nettle's weapons and Holo-Field loadout (36NEP just for the PD since each Fatesever is 60EP and you'd need 60 for a PD grid vs the Nettle's 24NEP).
While you may still be able to build them one at a time you'd be sacrificing the ability to pump these out in great numbers which is what you want with torpedo boats both because of the ruinous cost in Psy-Scopes and the fact that you probably won't have anywhere near as good Batch building capability as something cheaper.
Hey author, as we are the badass Craftworld that their thing is build and create things, how difficult is for us to get to the Exodites and see if they would let us build some gigantic engines and make movable Planets, the Orks do this good enough with their attack moons and well we should be able to do this too at least in the future right ?
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some of these we have to wait for the Aeldmoot proper for anyway, between our reveals and Saim-Han's. the others we sort of covered last time with 3 of 5 factions, and I think we want to focus more on selling ourselves as a must have candidate to Iyanden rather than try to cut deals. set them up to be poached for the adaptionists.
I think we can assume they get in touch with us post fall whatever happens, possibly using the Harlequin's as messengers. afterall, they ones working on the soul stones will want data and advice going forward, while the ones trying to reverse engineer Necron tech and turn it to a new purpose are definitely going to want the help of the innovative vaulish world with several one of a kind weapons preserved post fall.
I think it would be better to meet with Iyanden. thinking about it, we have something major in our arsenal of convince them to really, really want to work with us. A forge of Vaul. it's not a hard sell to convince them that if anything can be used to figure out how to artificially produce soul stones or develop an equivalent alternative, a forge of Vaul would be that thing. that plus our exotics, tech, will have them salivating and hyperventilating.
when our bomb and Saim-han's bomb drops, they'll have that "goddamn Vau-Vulkesh could make a fantastic ally" in the back of their minds reinforced, right as their thinking about what a screwup pain in the ass ally Beil-tan makes. as things pan out and we end up the leading voice in a swelling Adaptionist faction on good terms with two other powerful factions, They'll become moderate to easy to sell on how much dropping Beil-tan and trying to nudge the adaptionists towards a more Revanchist mindset from within is a far more likely to succeed political move than sticking with their worse off than before faction. they would be the strongest craftworld in the adaptionists after all.
fair point.
If Iyanden's reaction to discovering the truly heinous crimes that Biel-Tan has been committing is to go into full denial mode, they don't deserve to get the carrot.
I'm not entirely against laying the psychological groundwork for the bomb dropping ahead of time. I just think we should do so Day 3 so as to minimize the amount of warning Biel-Tan will receive, assuming we want to go that route.
I'm totally with you on the Asuryani, but I've grown a fair bit more hesitant about setting aside time for others to meet us. The question we must ask ourselves is (a) whether we've done enough to get someone to visit us, and (b) whether or not meeting with those individuals is worth the action.
We're on the verge of becoming the leader of the Radical faction. That means we need to act in the best interests of our faction, such as using this golden opportunity to recruit additional members (something I strongly suspect may require more than one meeting). I definitely think that would be more worthwhile than giving Biel-Tan an opportunity to try to coerce our silence. I honestly don't know who would be important enough to pass on that opportunity.
- Location
- Brazil
The issue is the fear that Saim Hai, which has always been described as one of the most proud of Craftworld for being the first, is going full on in the way of rubbing it in the face and grouping Iyanden, who has nothing to do with it and as the author put it was on the other side of the galaxy with Biel Tan making at least an effort of subtlety, with Biel Tan. That would totally trigger the reaction of closing ranks on humans, much less Eldar with their pride and nature to feel emotions more strongly.
I'm also worried about this, I'm not too alert, because I like to think that they have someone who understands politics, but is still worried.
Probably need to do more than just strapping on some engines.
A Craftworld just doing a flyby near a planet with external grav-compensators off is enough to cause cataclysmic effects to the planet so even if you did manage to bolt some craftworld scale engines to a planet you'd probably also need to include some grav-compensators or the planet would probably rip itself apart from the force of the acceleration.
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- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I suspect that the wounded pride on both sides is too fresh for Alaitoc and us to directly play nice. Remember that our dude is "basically Feanor" and isn't going to gracefully retract his prior statement about how the paths of Asuryan are a foolish half-measure.
There's also the added wrinkle that we were, well, at least somewhat correct in that assessment - the paths as currently planned would leave both Tzeentch and Nurgle's aspects of the Curse untouched (though I expect that to change pretty soon after this meeting).
So while we do want to ultimately have a truce with the Asuryani faction, since our approach doesn't necessarily have to conflict with theirs as at least an interim stopgap (and, y'know, it serves nobody's interests to be a foe), actually pulling off that truce is tricky.
The main thoughts I have about that are that:
a) we might want to wait for after the bombshell drop regarding the curses before we negotiate, since it'll be a lot harder to accuse us of being idle in the face of chaos afterwards, and
b) we might want to consider coming at it obliquely by meeting with some of the other large craftworlds in the faction (who are less personally slighted) instead of speaking with Alaitoc directly?
It doesn't even have to be direct - just speaking to the other large craftworlds on friendly terms as peers of ours (which they are in prestige) and offering decent terms without making a fuss about ideology would send a message that we're still willing to cooperate with the factions goals.
In any case, I expect Alaitoc to be able and willing to pretty quickly adapt to the news we bring about how the curse works - the paths themselves are a radical new concept only just starting to be implemented, not an ossified institution, after all.
There's also the added wrinkle that we were, well, at least somewhat correct in that assessment - the paths as currently planned would leave both Tzeentch and Nurgle's aspects of the Curse untouched (though I expect that to change pretty soon after this meeting).
So while we do want to ultimately have a truce with the Asuryani faction, since our approach doesn't necessarily have to conflict with theirs as at least an interim stopgap (and, y'know, it serves nobody's interests to be a foe), actually pulling off that truce is tricky.
The main thoughts I have about that are that:
a) we might want to wait for after the bombshell drop regarding the curses before we negotiate, since it'll be a lot harder to accuse us of being idle in the face of chaos afterwards, and
b) we might want to consider coming at it obliquely by meeting with some of the other large craftworlds in the faction (who are less personally slighted) instead of speaking with Alaitoc directly?
It doesn't even have to be direct - just speaking to the other large craftworlds on friendly terms as peers of ours (which they are in prestige) and offering decent terms without making a fuss about ideology would send a message that we're still willing to cooperate with the factions goals.
In any case, I expect Alaitoc to be able and willing to pretty quickly adapt to the news we bring about how the curse works - the paths themselves are a radical new concept only just starting to be implemented, not an ossified institution, after all.
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DarkLight140
Credit to Team
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- Lost in my thoughts
While "make friends with as many Asuryani as possible while completely ignoring Alaitoc" will inevitably be taken as a snub in itself, I agree that it's still our best bet here. Even better, we want to make friends with a lot of people who are not yet Asuryani but we think are probably going to move in that direction, so that we can effectively insert friendly parties into their faction without the awkwardness of their having to put up with the political party leader glaring at them the whole time they're talking to us. The fact that they're the fastest-growing faction means that they're the easiest faction to infiltrate people predisposed to like us into- just focus our charm offensive on their growth targets.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I think I've managed to put an outline together this turn folks.
[ ] Plan: To Create and Exploit Opportunities
-[ ][FIRST] Send out feelers among the Asuryani, see how things have been going on their end, and if any issues have cropped up on their end that we might be able to help with. Their path isn't ours, but that doesn't mean we don't share kinship.
-[ ][SECOND] Talk shop with Kher-Ys and Muirgaythh, ask if there are any major roadblocks to their projects that we might be able to help them with--they're good tools to have access to whether we intend to make regular use of them or not.
-[ ][THIRD] Free Action -- Respond to Opportunities or react to Problems that should come up, barring that, have our door open for others.
[ ] Plan: To Create and Exploit Opportunities
-[ ][FIRST] Send out feelers among the Asuryani, see how things have been going on their end, and if any issues have cropped up on their end that we might be able to help with. Their path isn't ours, but that doesn't mean we don't share kinship.
-[ ][SECOND] Talk shop with Kher-Ys and Muirgaythh, ask if there are any major roadblocks to their projects that we might be able to help them with--they're good tools to have access to whether we intend to make regular use of them or not.
-[ ][THIRD] Free Action -- Respond to Opportunities or react to Problems that should come up, barring that, have our door open for others.
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- Location
- madison
The issue that a hard "no infighting ever" rule has is that I could see Biel-Tan use it to sabotage any alliances made with non eldar. Show up and shoot any allies someone they don't like has, in full view of their eldar allies., or play other fuck fuck games where they play "I'm not touching you". So we probably need some mechanism for at least small scale skirmishing. Though we could also have rules regarding not making trouble for others by means other than direct attacks.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
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- Lost in my thoughts
Considering the expected behavior of our cousins in the webway, I don't know how much any possible set of rules is going to be able to protect any prospective diplomacy with other races. No matter what one group of eldar says or how friendly their intentions, there's always another group of assholes who share their race down the block ready to ruin everything.
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- madison
I mean when we find out about them, we can probably just declare they do not benefit from the rules due to them just being the worst.
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Iyanden. think about it. the Revanchist and Asuryani factions are both going to have the rug pulled up from under them.
Iyanden is the senior partner in this faction, and on top of staining there name and the cause through there action, we have a bunch of those shinies they risked so much to acquire, several noteworthy accomplishment, and are about to become the leading voice in what might end up as the strongest or second strongest faction between member worlds bailing on them and Asuryani. we can sell ourselves to them very strongly day two. warn them Beil-Tan has been up to some shady shit day three, and lean on them post moot to ditch Beil-tan and join us, to leverage the good they might accomplish as the most powerful member of the adaptionists as leverage to restarting there faction free of Beil-tan's miss deeds at a later point. It's a good pitch and we have a lot of shinies we can add to aweeten the deal, and it might get us a major craft world to run the adaptionists since we suck at stewardship.
you have a point here. it might be best to leave a timeslots open in block one for anyone interested, including potentially the Harlequins, to drop by and talk about something important, and top use our remaining blocks on Iyanden and Independents to nudge more people under our direct umbrella.
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Others have mostly spoken my thoughts on the matter, so, draft plan:
[]Plan Paths, Partners, and Lifeboats
-[]Firelord Erenesh, to take the temperature of the Asuryanis, and to convey a polite apology to the Autarch if he will have it.
-[]Kher-Ys, to compare notes. Our Forge of Vaul might be of interest here, if nothing else to make the necessary tooling.
-[]Durran Fellwinter, on the possibility of leaving an escape hatch for Iyanden when he accuses Biel-Tan--we're planning on rapid industrial expansion in the coming decades and we may be able to make time for a reasonably generous inducement to ditch Biel-Tan in favor of one of the other factions.
RE:Kher-Ys and not Muirgaythh, both are important enough that we should dedicate a whole block to each of them--one today, one tomorrow, because we're also just pressed for time on other topics. Can be either-or.
RE: Fellwinter in particular, I think if we want to break off Iyanden from Biel-Tan, we need Fellwinter to be on board with that so he doesn't explicitly condemn Iyanden along with Biel-Tan. He's a shrewd fellow, I'm sure he'll see the benefits.
We also need an idea of what inducement would get Iyanden to break off, but we can't get that information beforehand without spoiling the j'accuse. Although we may be able to lay some groundwork tomorrow.
[]Plan Paths, Partners, and Lifeboats
-[]Firelord Erenesh, to take the temperature of the Asuryanis, and to convey a polite apology to the Autarch if he will have it.
-[]Kher-Ys, to compare notes. Our Forge of Vaul might be of interest here, if nothing else to make the necessary tooling.
-[]Durran Fellwinter, on the possibility of leaving an escape hatch for Iyanden when he accuses Biel-Tan--we're planning on rapid industrial expansion in the coming decades and we may be able to make time for a reasonably generous inducement to ditch Biel-Tan in favor of one of the other factions.
RE:Kher-Ys and not Muirgaythh, both are important enough that we should dedicate a whole block to each of them--one today, one tomorrow, because we're also just pressed for time on other topics. Can be either-or.
RE: Fellwinter in particular, I think if we want to break off Iyanden from Biel-Tan, we need Fellwinter to be on board with that so he doesn't explicitly condemn Iyanden along with Biel-Tan. He's a shrewd fellow, I'm sure he'll see the benefits.
We also need an idea of what inducement would get Iyanden to break off, but we can't get that information beforehand without spoiling the j'accuse. Although we may be able to lay some groundwork tomorrow.
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I don't think that's likely. Saim-Hann's main beef is with Biel-Tan. I can't see them that passing up on an opportunity to break up their main alliance.
I'd swap around the actions a bit so that Respond is Third, since the other two actions could result in folks wanting to talk with us. Other than that, good plan.
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- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
As I mentioned earlier - I'm not sure we can actually pull this off, so if we want a truce with the Asuryani, that might not be the way to go about it. I'd be more sanguine about something similar to @Alectai 's proposal.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
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we really should be talking up our accomplishments, forge of Vaul, exotics, tech, and decent starter alliance while taking there own measure. sell ourselves as an ally worth having, so they know what one looks like when the bomb gets dropped and they have a chance to figure out that Beil-tan isn't that.
Otherwise we should really be leaving a spot open for the Harlequins or Independent to come visit us possibly. we don't want to risk being snubbed because the Harlequin's have more important business, but neither can we afford to not give them a chance to inform us of something important.
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DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
I'm envisioning a future in which Forgelord Aresh-Vul and Autarch Tyrellian Kulkessrin have spent the last ten thousand years carefully making sure that they never speak to one another directly and instead have their allies handle all diplomacy between Alaitoc and Vau-Vulkesh as intermediaries. If absolutely necessary that their craftworlds communicate directly, they have their seconds sort everything out while pretending the other person doesn't exist.
Because they know they should be working together and are politically sensible enough to do it, but they also know that fuck that guy and if they ever see his smug face again it's getting a knife in it.
Because they know they should be working together and are politically sensible enough to do it, but they also know that fuck that guy and if they ever see his smug face again it's getting a knife in it.
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actually we should have respond first, so that way people already interested in talking to us, possibly independents, possibly adaptionists, possibly major craft worlds, can do so, and save the follow up for second days other meetings for the third day.
mention seerstone tower. while we are unlikely to let them have more than a token AP action under the best of circumstances, if your spending Block time meeting with the people most likely to establish ties no matter what happens next, you might as well tempt them with our somewhat sentient warplore repositary.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I think that's well under our level of abstraction?
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*Shrug*
I don't think it would hurt to try, and it would at least hint at an offer of rapproachment.
- Location
- Germany
It's the T1 seer building to my understanding.
They either should have their own or should be busy building one at the moment.