I think that's well under our level of abstraction?
It's the T1 seer building to my understanding.
They either should have their own or should be busy building one at the moment.
fair enough.

it is kind of vexing though that we are putting off Iyanden or the independents to meet a second time with the people most likely to ally with us after the reveal whether we met them in pre-Aeldmoot phase or not. your essentially hyper focusing on the already won battle and letting major opportunities practically slip away.
 
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Kher-Ys and their allies Di'lky-Tan and Ul-Kaethe have been working to develop a means to produce Spirit Stones—if successful, this would obviate, or at least greatly reduce, the need to make dangerous raids on the Crone Worlds for additional examples, important given that most Craftworlds do not at present have sufficient stockpiles for their entire population.
Was rereading the update and I realized I recognized Kher-Ys from browsing Lexicanum's list of Craftworlds.

In canon Slaanesh was particularly interested in them and in this case the fact that they're working on a way to produce Spirit Stones would definitely put Kher-Ys in their crosshairs.

Kher-Ys has runic wards that was capable of keeping Daemons out but in canon a Keeper of Secrets managed to seduce the daughter of one of the Craftworld's Autarchs who had a key into letting them in and the Craftworld ends up getting blitzed and wiped out by the Daemons.

Given the fact that the Keeper specifically seduced the daughter of an Autarch that should put these events quite a bit into the future since Autarchs are supposed to be part of the Path System which Kher-Ys as a noted Radical/Adaptionist probably won't adopt for a while .

Given the fact that they're going to be getting direct attention from Slaanesh actually butterflying their fall probably won't be that easy since even if we prevent the specific events that resulted in their fall in canon there's still going to be a named Keeper of Secrets that's heavily invested in breaching it's defenses.
 
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It's the T1 seer building to my understanding.
They either should have their own or should be busy building one at the moment.
It is a T1 building. There's more than one, in some cases. But yes, most people either have one/an equivalent already or have an equivalent in their build queue.
I mean when we find out about them, we can probably just declare they do not benefit from the rules due to them just being the worst.

And Re: Diplomacy in general: "Your race has pirates, does it not? Ours are particularly unpleasant, yes, but it's not like we approve of them, thier lifestyle choices, or thier incredibly tasteless fashion sense either. Seriously spikes and blades everywhere, it's like they've reverted to what children think is 'edgy' out of some kind of..." *twenty minutes of rambling on why the Druchii are dumb and just the worst*

Was rereading the update and I realized I recognized Kher-Ys from browsing Lexicanum's list of Craftworlds.

In canon Slaanesh was particularly interested in them and in this case the fact that they're working on a way to produce Spirit Stones would definitely put Kher-Ys in their crosshairs.

Kher-Ys has runic wards that was capable of keeping Daemons out but in canon a Keeper of Secrets managed to seduce the daughter of one of the Craftworld's Autarchs who had a key into letting them in and the Craftworld ends up getting blitzed and wiped out by the Daemons.

Given the fact that the Keeper specifically seduced the daughter of an Autarch that should put these events quite a bit into the future since Autarchs are supposed to be part of the Path System which Kher-Ys as a noted Radical/Adaptionist probably won't adopt for a while .

Given the fact that they're going to be getting direct attention from Slaanesh actually butterflying their fall probably won't be that easy since even if we prevent the specific events that resulted in their fall in canon there's still going to be a named Keeper of Secrets that's heavily invested in breaching it's defenses.
On this: keep in mind that canon has a great deal of "just don't think about it" in the early Eldar lore as a result of some writers making them be exactly like 40k Eldar in all time periods, so Asurman both leads the exodus from the Croneworlds and spends a couple hundred years sulking in a temple and eventually sort-of raising a feral child, Aspect Warriors are both not a thing for centuries after the Fall and showing up immediately after the Fall, the Path system is both not adopted in modern form for centuries and so pervasive that even Craftworlds like Myrmera which logically Shouldn't have even heard of it because they spent centuries thinking they were literally the only living people left in the galaxy for some reason until the Shadow Spectres guy shows up, and so on and so on.
So don't assume that just because things are using path terms they're appropriately dated, because the actual 40k writers certainly don't!
 
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fair enough.

it is kind of vexing though that we are putting off Iyanden or the independents to meet a second time with the people most likely to ally with us after the reveal whether we met them in pre-Aeldmoot phase or not. your essentially hyper focusing on the already won battle and letting major opportunities practically slip away.

I mean, I think we got the Plot Hooks attached to the Independents?

I do want to address Iyanden, I'm just not sure what the right move to make there is.
 
But yes, I specifically chose the standout names in your faction as Craftworlds who canonically got got by Slannesh at some point after the Fall, on the basis of explaing why the Dark Prince invested in getting those dudes specifically.
 
I mean, I think we got the Plot Hooks attached to the Independents?

I do want to address Iyanden, I'm just not sure what the right move to make there is.

I would say the best option for getting a favor with them is to warn them about Biel-Tan as a sign of the goodwill and offer our hand in cooperation to signal that Biel-Tan's actions won't impact our relationship with them and that we are more than will to further build ties with them. This would hopefully stop the closing of ranks.

Edit: Generaly as last plan was worded we already said that we planned to bring complaint to Iyanden so we may as well do it beforehand in more private matter before Saim Hann drops the bombshell on the meeting giving them enough time to distance themselves from Biel-Tan's actions as they as heck won't be able to deny it at the moot proper.
 
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And Re: Diplomacy in general: "Your race has pirates, does it not? Ours are particularly unpleasant, yes, but it's not like we approve of them, thier lifestyle choices, or thier incredibly tasteless fashion sense either. Seriously spikes and blades everywhere, it's like they've reverted to what children think is 'edgy' out of some kind of..." *twenty minutes of rambling on why the Druchii are dumb and just the worst*

*Looks at all those Spikes and Edges. Looks at Gravity Blades.*

 
But yes, I specifically chose the standout names in your faction as Craftworlds who canonically got got by Slannesh at some point after the Fall, on the basis of explaing why the Dark Prince invested in getting those dudes specifically.

Really are going for the perspective that while the Chaos Gods might superficially get in each other's way, it's never to the point of making Chaos actually lose in the long run, huh?

The idea that there's 4 Chaos Gods rather than one Chaos Force with four faces is kind of never borne out in the setting.
 
Given the fact that they're going to be getting direct attention from Slaanesh actually butterflying their fall probably won't be that easy since even if we prevent the specific events that resulted in their fall in canon there's still going to be a named Keeper of Secrets that's heavily invested in breaching it's defenses.
which is where yeeting that fucker right out of reality comes into play with the second group of prominent adaptionists.

a shame we didn't get void cannons or it would be easy.

@Alectai I really think we should be meeting independents instead of Asuryani day 2. The more time blocks that pass without meeting them and putting it to their heads that they should try to join up with us, the more likely it is someone else convinces them instead and we miss our on a chance to recruit a craft world with a worthwhile relic or hero unit with their allegiance. If not them than Iyanden as a major craft world that's neutral to us rather than having a grudge against us would be better.

Asuryani on the other hand, we can apologize to any day. It might even be better to come on the last day when they have a bunch of effort to draw people in politically over the first few days they won't want to jeopardize by getting into an argument or snubbing us right before.
But yes, I specifically chose the standout names in your faction as Craftworlds who canonically got got by Slannesh at some point after the Fall, on the basis of explaing why the Dark Prince invested in getting those dudes specifically.
Ahh. We are about to join there ranks as worlds that end up high on the chaos gods shit life in a century or two.
I mean, I think we got the Plot Hooks attached to the Independents?

I do want to address Iyanden, I'm just not sure what the right move to make there is.
Their are 3 ways we could go with Iyanden. One is simply dealing with them fairly at the end of day 3 and seeing what comes of it.

Warn them about Beil-Tan's miss deeds and maybe follow up on it as a favor owed post proper moot.

The second is to withhold information but not make too much of a spectacle of Beil-tan visions compared to anyone else. Let Saim-han take the lead on that and just be another potential to be wronged world in the background.

The last is to meet them twice. Day 2 too wow them with our relics, exotics, defensive tech, and the accomplishment of averting Meros's doom. Really sell them on everything amazing about us so they have a whole day to think about what a great ally we'd make and how they might go about courting us.

Then we warn them day 3, earning some gratitude on top of the "wow, what a craftworld" vibes, and leverage that post moot to draw them into our faction on the grounds that their cause is kind of tainted by Beil-Tan's actions and PR of supporting those who have a shot at a real solution to the curses is the best chance they have at a second chance for their cause once the curses have been dealt with.
Really are going for the perspective that while the Chaos Gods might superficially get in each other's way, it's never to the point of making Chaos actually lose in the long run, huh?

The idea that there's 4 Chaos Gods rather than one Chaos Force with four faces is kind of never borne out in the setting.
I think that's a result of their named characters having the fundamental intelligence and hatred of their gods enemies to unify and combine their efforts despite their Gods not really getting along.
 
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On this: keep in mind that canon has a great deal of "just don't think about it" in the early Eldar lore as a result of some writers making them be exactly like 40k Eldar in all time periods, so Asurman both leads the exodus from the Croneworlds and spends a couple hundred years sulking in a temple and eventually sort-of raising a feral child, Aspect Warriors are both not a thing for centuries after the Fall and showing up immediately after the Fall, the Path system is both not adopted in modern form for centuries and so pervasive that even Craftworlds like Myrmera which logically Shouldn't have even heard of it because they spent centuries thinking they were literally the only living people left in the galaxy for some reason until the Shadow Spectres guy shows up, and so on and so on.
So don't assume that just because things are using path terms they're appropriately dated, because the actual 40k writers certainly don't!
But yes, I specifically chose the standout names in your faction as Craftworlds who canonically got got by Slannesh at some point after the Fall, on the basis of explaing why the Dark Prince invested in getting those dudes specifically.
Well that shakes up the timetable a bit. Hopefully with the reveal on the true nature of The Flaw there'll be more Eldar paying attention to the Craftworlds doing stuff like the Spirit Stone fabrication project and they'll get more backup for when Slaanesh comes knocking.

On that note, I guess we can probably expect some attention too given our role in discovering and revealing the true nature of The Flaw and the Soul Forging project we're going to be doing?
 
I think we should also talk to the neutrals, both to look for more possible allies and to get more of an indictment against vile tan
 
Maybe we can come up with some sort of agreement with other leading Adaptionists to periodically send each other copies of our research in some secure way so that in the event that one of us has our Craftworld eaten by Slaanesh the others can carry on their work. Maybe a naval exchange where we each keep a webway gate-bearing vessel plus its escort in orbit of the allied craftworld? That would let us keep closely in touch with each other diplomatically as well as serving as a research backup conduit and emergency military "please send troops" button.
 
... Right, I forgot about the Independents, shit, good catch. I'll add in canvassing them as part of Day 2 in the place of the shop talk, we can do that next day if there's no other pressing concerns then.

EDIT: Current draft in case I'm still asleep when the vote opens.

[ ] Plan: To Create and Exploit Opportunities v.2, The Independents
-[ ][FIRST] Send out feelers among the Asuryani, see how things have been going on their end, and if any issues have cropped up on their end that we might be able to help with. Their path isn't ours, but that doesn't mean we don't share kinship.
-[ ][SECOND] Canvas through the Independents, see who we might be able to court to join our camp, anyone who might have need for assistance that we can offer--ideally without breaking our backs trying, but we have a large number of tools at this point, and all of us together are stronger than each of us apart.
-[ ][THIRD] Free Action -- Reserve time for anyone who wants to talk, or to add more time if something needs more.
 
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I think we should look for a craftworld who has Doomblades and/or Voidcannons to share the tech. We need a reliable weapon for daemonkilling.
 
I think we should look for a craftworld who has Doomblades and/or Voidcannons to share the tech. We need a reliable weapon for daemonkilling.
This is something that can wait for the moot proper, when we've announced why those technologies are so incredibly important so anyone who steps forward and offers to proliferate the technology/have their relics studied for reverse-engineering will be immediately lauded as heroes by everyone else present. If we go looking for it right now we're far less likely to have success.
 
Maybe we can come up with some sort of agreement with other leading Adaptionists to periodically send each other copies of our research in some secure way so that in the event that one of us has our Craftworld eaten by Slaanesh the others can carry on their work. Maybe a naval exchange where we each keep a webway gate-bearing vessel plus its escort in orbit of the allied craftworld? That would let us keep closely in touch with each other diplomatically as well as serving as a research backup conduit and emergency military "please send troops" button.
This is something to arrange during the aeldmoot proper where the subject about how to deal with the curses will be discussed post reveal.
... Right, I forgot about the Independents, shit, good catch. I'll add in canvassing them as part of Day 2 in the place of the shop talk, we can do that next day if there's no other pressing concerns then.

EDIT: Current draft in case I'm still asleep when the vote opens.

[ ] Plan: To Create and Exploit Opportunities v.2, The Independents
-[ ][FIRST] Send out feelers among the Asuryani, see how things have been going on their end, and if any issues have cropped up on their end that we might be able to help with. Their path isn't ours, but that doesn't mean we don't share kinship.
-[ ][SECOND] Canvas through the Independents, see who we might be able to court to join our camp, anyone who might have need for assistance that we can offer--ideally without breaking our backs trying, but we have a large number of tools at this point, and all of us together are stronger than each of us apart.
-[ ][THIRD] Free Action -- Respond to Opportunities or react to Problems that should come up, barring that, have our door open for others.
Alright this is a pretty solid plan. Canvassing the Independents makes the end of day reception time slot more tolerable. I still think we should be meeting with Iyanden rather than the Asuryani since total neutrality towards us is better than holds a grudge but holds tongue for political reasons, but I can settle for two out of three.

I don't think react to problems is necessary in the free timeslot? This is the pre Aeldmoot and everyone is on their sort of best behavior. A simple "Reserve time for those interested in meeting with you or members of your retinue to do so." Is a nice and simple write in that strictly puts the ball in other people's corner and puts us into the position of advantage of being the person who the people we are meeting with need for something. Negotiation tactics 101.
 
This is something that can wait for the moot proper, when we've announced why those technologies are so incredibly important so anyone who steps forward and offers to proliferate the technology/have their relics studied for reverse-engineering will be immediately lauded as heroes by everyone else present. If we go looking for it right now we're far less likely to have success.
I think we can do two passes, one before, one after. Just making one after has a risk that the craftworld having it would start a bidding war realizing how important that is, and we can easily lose bidding war to major craftworlds. So we can make two attempts instead.
 
I'm on board for letting Saim-Hann take the lead on Biel-Tan. We could maybe sound out the Neutrals to see if they've been done wrong by them, but I can't see Saim-Hann not doing that themselves so us asking as well is probably superfluous? I guess we could direct them to Saim-Hann if we do ask.

I trust that Saim-Han is competent enough to bring the issue up in such a way as to not piss Iyanden off. They're probably going to focus on splitting them up from BT, which could itself be something of a problem if BT then decide they no longer even need the fig leaf of pretending they did nothing wrong? But Iyanden themselves I don't see turtling up after this.
for one thing it doesn't have Starlance Variations or Fatetwister Cannons, which are a must for a vessel of it's size. given what's described here is only a quarter of what could be mounted on it and probably used over a quarter of our exotics stores already, I'd suggest considering other options as well. we probably want to stick with Megalances though, and switch the cannon to PDA Cannons instead. If we put enough Haywire Heavy variants, we can probably Disable the Grimm Tussk and get that neat Tellyporta for ourselves for reverse engineering.
The Sword of Vaul we could've gained in chargen isn't the same one Arach-Qin has, Mechanis confirmed that every one is unique.
I think we should look for a craftworld who has Doomblades and/or Voidcannons to share the tech. We need a reliable weapon for daemonkilling.
It won't be good for true killing, but going by the name it wouldn't surprise me if plascasters (flamer/plasma hybrids) helped in some small way in unlocking flamespears, which would be great at fighting daemons ij general (dur to the flamer part) and Nurgle in particular for the anti-regen.
 
I think the Asuryani part is both too specific and too vague? You can just say "seek out common ground and offer aid".
 
Spent a little bit of time on Lexicanum, looking up the canonical fates of the specifically named craftworlds brought up at the moot here. It's not pretty. Literally only one of them is both in Lexicanum and survives to the 40k timeline. We're in a room of ghosts.

CraftworldFactionSizeCanonical Fate
LanimayeshSurvivalistAverageDead (Khorne)
VaranthaSurvivalistAverageSurvived (Halo Stars)
An-IolsusSurvivalistAverageUnknown (Not in Lexicanum)
Vaer-KathSurvivalistSmallUnknown (Not in Lexicanum)
LestellianSurvivalistSmallUnknown (Not in Lexicanum)
MyrtellosSurvivalistSmallUnknown (Not in Lexicanum)
Jain-Il'TennSurvivalistSmallUnknown (Not in Lexicanum)
Aon'TaiAsuryaniLargeDead (Biel-Tan)
Kalth'seAsuryaniLargeDead (Unknown, post-Infinity Circuits)
Magc'SithraalAsuryaniLargeDead (Great Crusade)
Kher-YsAdaptionistsAverageDead (Slaanesh)
Di'lky-TanAdaptionistsSmall/Minor?Unknown (Not in Lexicanum)
Ul-KaetheAdaptionistsSmall/Minor?Unknown (Not in Lexicanum)
MuirgaythhAdaptionistsAverageDead (Slaanesh)
Faer-KairnAdaptionistsMinorUnknown (Not in Lexicanum)
Il'Tah'yrdAdaptionistsMinorUnknown (Not in Lexicanum)
 
I think we can do two passes, one before, one after. Just making one after has a risk that the craftworld having it would start a bidding war realizing how important that is, and we can easily lose bidding war to major craftworlds. So we can make two attempts instead.
None of the major craft worlds has completed research on nature of the curses three, single time use of the forge of vaul to produce something spectacular, fatebender psyscopes, or large industrial innovative craftworld AP to leverage. Our limitation is going to be time spent negotiating rather than ability to outbid most worlds. Asuryani for instance will have little to offer and Saim-han and Ulthwe are going to be sufficiently grateful to step aside if we want someone. Iyanden is going to tarnished by association with Beil-Tan to outbid us with our gratitude bonus assuming we haven't laid the groundwork to be negotiating their recruitment to our faction.
The Sword of Vaul we could've gained in chargen isn't the same one Arach-Qin has, Mechanis confirmed that every one is unique.
Yes, I'm aware, and the thing is however unique Sword of Vaul Class the Serpent of the Stars is, it likely doesn't have heavy guns that can measure up to the exotics based Starcrystal or Fatebender weaponry we can feasibly refit the ship with. Assuming it's the same Melta tech we can uncover with a single bonesinger AP, it's definitely inferior do to the ranged issues alone.
I think the Asuryani part is both too specific and too vague? You can just say "seek out common ground and offer aid".
I think he's aiming for a cautious "find reasonable representatives among the group and look into how likely to be accepted a "let's put our differences behind us" meeting day 3 might be. Personally I think we should just go for a direct meeting day 3 with none of this feel them out stuff. It's too close to the Aeldmoot proper for the Asuryani leader to make a scene, meaning at worst he snubs us by refusing to meet, and we've lost nothing, while meeting with Iyanden to get in there good graces somewhat ahead of delivering the bad news would definitely pay off in good relations regardless of how the reveal goes.
 
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None of the major craft worlds has completed research on nature of the curses three, single time use of the forge of vaul to produce something spectacular, fatebender psyscopes, or large industrial innovative craftworld AP to leverage. Our limitation is going to be time spent negotiating rather than ability to outbid most worlds. Asuryani for instance will have little to offer and Saim-han and Ulthwe are going to be sufficiently grateful to step aside if we want someone. Iyanden is going to tarnished by association with Beil-Tan to outbid us with our gratitude bonus assuming we haven't laid the groundwork to be negotiating their recruitment to our faction.
That's assuming they want exotics or forgeworks, and not things like major political support, paths instructors, fleets or armies. We are strong in some things but weak in others.
 
That's assuming they want exotics or forgeworks, and not things like major political support, paths instructors, fleets or armies. We are strong in some things but weak in others.
After this we are very much able to provide major political support between the relative approval of two major craft worlds leading factions of their own, uncontested status as the foremost Adaptionist by virtue of success and validation of the factions core political stance.

Path instructors are dropping in value, not just do to the invalidation of their method as an effective long-term solution, but because with some worlds leaving their faction over this fact, those interested have more to go around, and we were never going to have a real chance with someone specifically interested in the paths prior to the reveal anyway as the craft world which implied they were a foolish solution.

Currently we have the entire half of Zahr-Tann's fleet all of the our functional or refit void vessels not committed to convoy escort, as well as 60 Zahr-Tann warhosts, while we sit far from any enemies, our location unknown to them, our craft worlds defenses presumably intact. Splitting a heavy fleet and a line or two from Zahr-Tann to provide someone with 6 battle cruisers, 48 light cruisers, and 248 heavy frigates to supplement their fleet for a turn or 3, which can bring a dozen warhosts with them.

Anyone needing more than that is someone who needed to cut a deal with someone else anyway, and if it's tech there trading it's not like they can't double dip.
 
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Kher-Ys and their allies Di'lky-Tan and Ul-Kaethe have been working to develop a means to produce Spirit Stones—if successful, this would obviate, or at least greatly reduce, the need to make dangerous raids on the Crone Worlds for additional examples, important given that most Craftworlds do not at present have sufficient stockpiles for their entire population.
Knowing that Isha is alive will likely help with this project. Perhaps we could utilize the existing Tears to exchange power with Isha. Worship in exchange for divine energy. I wonder if the Forge would be helpful too, considering that Vaul forged the Tears at Isha's request. At least in terms of ritual symbolism it would match. We could probably plan out a collaboration between their experts, our forge-priests and the Ishari.
Muirgaythh leads a small coalition of themselves and the minor craftworlds of Faer-Kairn and Il'Tah'yrd who have been working to recreate the Tesseract Arcs of the Necrons—which have held gods, before—and believe that if they succeed, it will be possible to weaken the Ruinous Ones by trapping their servants—especially those counted among the Exalted—in those inescapable prisons, cut off from the Immaterium. An intriguing idea, to be certain—what would happen to a god, should one manage to trap enough of their greatest servants in such a fashion?
Could be a good countermeasure to Fateweaver's psychic wiretapping if they're trying to actually replicate the material science rather than replicating it mystically. Generally a good prospect for Operation: Unwoven Fortune as a whole.
Eldrad himself did not, alas, have time to meet, but instead sends Choirmaster Kael Il'Drahe of Il-Kaithe in his stead—perhaps a deliberate move, for that Craftworld is perhaps the most Vaulish of those in Ulthwe's camp. The notion of greater cooperation between the Aeldari on the subject of major threats and issues has, at the very least, his personal support, and will likely be supported more widely by the Survivalist camp.
Do we have any early drafts of the Merosian Texts we could share around?
It seems that the good Archon thought he could get away with acquiring many relics and treasures at gunpoint whilst the majority of the other Craftworlds were distracted. Which suggests the intention for the attacks seen on you was to acquire either your most advanced exotic weapons… or perhaps the Forge of Vaul you possess, which may well be the last in the galaxy still functional. Or even both.
Ex-fucking-scuse me? Our gods are literally murdered and eaten and the first fucking thing these assholes do is reenact the Crippling of Vaul being chained to the Anvil of Khaine? Theological war! Theological war right now!
Revanchist are about to take a major hit as well from Beil-tan's actions. if we play this smart, we might be able to convince Iyanden post moot that their best bet is to join the adaptionists and use the credit for having a part in either the soul stone engineering or whatever we come up with to leverage into a new Revanchist faction in the distant future.
I'd really like to get a look at their Phoenix Flame for our various theological projects.
I think we should look for a craftworld who has Doomblades and/or Voidcannons to share the tech. We need a reliable weapon for daemonkilling.
Iyandan has a lot of relics and is hanging out around the Gothic Sector so we may be able to weasel some Blackstone lore from them, or else collaborate on studying the Talismans.
 
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