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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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RandomTechPriest said:
But is is possible to put most of that on a vehicle. Take the Fata for example. It comes with 2 primary shielding methods (Grav and Conversion), a holo-field, and medium armor.

From here we have a few options for troop transport. We can:
Use the 7 slots on enclosed or open troop capacity giving it 7 or 15 capacity respectively.
Or use 3 slots on open back to get 6 transport capacity and use the remaining 3 slots on another grav-shield.


Everything Eldar related got a massive hit from the death of the Gods, and i assume biology was included in this. WoG states that the Eldar were near God like soldiers in the War in Heaven and assumably their biology was able to keep up with the psychic power they had. Nowadays, however, people like Draylin will combust if they use anything nearly as powerful as their previous max.

As for the blood issue, why must the improved skeleton not have the ability to produce blood? Why cant a cybernetic alternative do the same thing bone marrow does it not better?
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because the quest balances. most of our techs trade one thing for another and compromise somewhere to be what we are aiming for and the same would be true of any cybernetics.

I'm just not interested in spending seeker AP on that kind of setting generic method of improvement when there are going to be higher uses of our exotics and furthering of Wraithbone generation tech that I hold more important than excessive unnecessary modifications that probably don't fly as things the Aresh-Vul would be open to as things to do with no motivating cause behind rather than something like the curses 3 to overcome.
RandomTechPriest said:
The Fata comes with the Engine fully recessed, unlike the current Light Grav vehicle which defends its engine with a metal grate.
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that's why it's an anti Armor mine. things can penetrate armor.
 
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RandomTechPriest said:
Everything Eldar related got a massive hit from the death of the Gods, and i assume biology was included in this. WoG states that the Eldar were near God like soldiers in the War in Heaven and assumably their biology was able to keep up with the psychic power they had. Nowadays, however, people like Draylin will combust if they use anything nearly as powerful as their previous max.

As for the blood issue, why must the improved skeleton not have the ability to produce blood? Why cant a cybernetic alternative do the same thing bone marrow does it not better?
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My issue with trying for the cybernetics/genemods route is one of practicality. Like previously allluded to, the Aeldari are pretty damn good just at baseline. It's almost certainly going to be easier to build better weapons or armor compared to building and installing cybernetic enhancements. Weapons and armor don't need to be designed around being implanted into someone's body after all.
 
IronFist said:
I'm not a fan of going for a hybrid role on vehicles either tbh.
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If we wanted to go for a more flexible (and somewhat more expensive) design for a non-attached transport, we could probably do something along these lines:

[] Plan: Hypothetical Flexible Heavy Chassis
-[ ] Configuration : Fully Recessed [EXPERIMENTAL]
-[ ] Type : Plasma Drive [EXPERIMENTAL]
-[ ] Enhance Speed
-[ ] Enhance Speed
-[ ] Maneuvering x3
-[ ] Stability x2
-[ ] Power Plant : Starlight Reactor [EXPERIMENTAL]
-[ ] Basic Armor : Heavy
-[ ] Enhanced Armor : Crew Compartment
-[ ] Weapons Mounts : Default
-[ ] Crew Spaces : Fighting Compartment
-[ ] Defense System : Holo-Field [EXPERIMENTAL]
-[ ] Defense System : Grav-Shield Generator [EXPERIMENTAL]
-[ ] 36 System Slots

Could be an SPG/assault gun, could transport two squads of 12 with supporting guns and a full set of shields, could be set up as a mobile command post for a headquarters squad, or even just a heavy tank, and should be able to keep up with Fata Morganas on the move. And it's not something we'd want so many of that the extra cost for the flexibility would really bite.

But that's not a hybrid.

When the Fata Morgana plan first went up, I was arguing against it on the basis it either had too few weapon mounts, or too many, and was asking at the time if we wanted to just... immediately obsolete the Iterated Light Grav Vehicle, which no one was quite willing to answer with "yes." The way people are trying to force the Fata Morgana into being a transport chassis, I think people probably should have.
 
vsh said:
It's freaking hard to make a mine that would blow up a flyer. Our tanks are not land based.
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but they do land occasionally. I'm not saying it's going to happen often, but it will happen. doesn't really change anything at this point, but there is a reason why you use redundant engines.
Candesce said:
snip
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I think that can be summed up as "people wanted to design a tank, and a from scratch transport, and settled on the tank in the end". simple people being of two minds about something. regardless, it's done, and another Chassis Militarization is looking a good ways off. best to accept what we have and move forward.
 
Randino Treviani said:
because the quest balances. most of our techs trade one thing for another and compromise somewhere to be what we are aiming for and the same would be true of any cybernetics.

I'm just not interested in spending seeker AP on that kind of setting generic method of improvement when there are going to be higher uses of our exotics and furthering of Wraithbone generation tech that I hold more important than excessive unnecessary modifications that probably don't fly as things the Aresh-Vul would be open to as things to do with no motivating cause behind rather than something like the curses 3 to overcome.

that's why it's an anti Armor mine. things can penetrate armor.
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It can penetrate anti-explosive conversion fields (Ones I note that we explicitly gave the advantage to be strong against things like explosions), gravity fields, and target the engine block exactly behind a Holofield, and still have enough force after cutting through that onion to one-shot the engine? And doing this against a fucking hovertank that isn't standing still?

At that point, you're dealing with top end Necron bullshit, not something that can be considered standard issue (Even the Necrons don't have horseshit on that level as standard issue I would point out!). Because they just straight up lolnoped three high end defenses with enough gas left in the tank to pierce an MBT's armor belt in a precise location.

Seriously. "If we run over an anti-tank mine while we've taken down all of our active defenses for some reason, and it's smart enough to precisely target our engine block rather than detonating on contact with pressure, our tank will die!" Is not a good reason to dismiss it as a good unit. it means that "If you jump on a sword, buck naked, you will probably die."

"Anti-Armor Mine" does not mean "It instantly kills armor if deployed and no defenses matter", it means that purely conventional armor isn't enough to resist it if fired. It still needs to, you know, actually be run over, and then not get bounced by one of the two active defenses on the table before it even reaches the armor belt.

Because again, our tanks are not going to fight hugging the ground, which means their Grav-Fields and Conversion Fields will get a say in the matter, and if we're talking "Anti-Armor Weapons that are actually naval guns that fire only once"... Well, of course it'll one-shot any vehicle scale entity in the game.

It also costs a hundred times what that vehicle did.
 
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Alectai said:
At that point, you're dealing with top end Necron bullshit, not something that can be considered standard issue (Even the Necrons don't have horseshit on that level as standard issue I would point out!). Because they just straight up lolnoped three high end defenses with enough gas left in the tank to pierce an MBT's armor belt in a precise location.
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Pretty sure the Necrons do have shit that could do that as standard issue, but they are also the most advanced race in the fucking galaxy and we (or eldar in general) are not a peer anymore after the fall.

Something like teleporting mines or ones that use dimensional phasing to get around defenses are easily doable for them.

Thing is nobody else but the Necrons (and potentially Eldar) have tech on that level and the Necrons aren't going to wake up for another what 10-11k years ?
 
If our first iteration of light tanks needs necron weaponry to be seriously threatened, we're good.

It means evething else will bounce off.

Don't pick a fight with necrons should be commmon sense, really.

Edit: Do necrons ever lose to non space marines?
 
RandomTechPriest said:
I think we are talking past each other. When I say cybernetic augmentation, I mean things like "improved eyesight" and "Wraithbone skeleton" not chop off the entire limb and replace with bargain bin aluminum.
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I'm not sure Wraithbone is naturally conducive to cybernetic augmentation. Or, perhaps, that it falls within the realm of biomancy to create Wraithbone within someone's flesh. Not saying it's impossible, just that it probably isn't particularly easy. Or that it requires some significant R&D to make it work/figure it out.

I could see improved eyesight being a thing, though.
 
IronFist said:
Edit: Do necrons ever lose to non space marines?
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A couple times, Astral Knights ramming the World Engine with their battle barge and crippling its defences from the inside to the point rest of Imperial task force disabled it, albeit at a cost of (almost? Don't remember for sure) all of their lives, being one of the most memorable example.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
I'm not sure Wraithbone is naturally conducive to cybernetic augmentation. Or, perhaps, that it falls within the realm of biomancy to create Wraithbone within someone's flesh. Not saying it's impossible, just that it probably isn't particularly easy. Or that it requires some significant R&D to make it work/figure it out.

I could see improved eyesight being a thing, though.
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I headcanon eldar as having mantis shrimp level colour vision.
 
Mithrill said:
A couple times, Astral Knights ramming the World Engine with their battle barge and crippling its defences from the inside to the point rest of Imperial task force disabled it, albeit at a cost of (almost? Don't remember for sure) all of their lives, being one of the most memorable example.
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That needs space marines to have done though.

There is the big gleaming example of the necrons being the ones to not have dominion over the galaxy post WiH, but that is more of a phyric victory for the eldar then anything.
 
thatguy99998 said:
There is the big gleaming example of the necrons being the ones to not have dominion over the galaxy post WiH, but that is more of a phyric victory for the eldar then anything
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As far as I understand, the only reason the necrons weren't able to defeat the Eldar was because the Necrons turned on the Ctan, which damaged necron forces enough to not make victory against the Eldar certain.
 
Randino Treviani said:
I think that can be summed up as "people wanted to design a tank, and a from scratch transport, and settled on the tank in the end". simple people being of two minds about something. regardless, it's done, and another Chassis Militarization is looking a good ways off. best to accept what we have and move forward.
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My guess is that a lot of the desire for a new transport design came from the reveal that our current engine configurations are exceedingly vulnerable, what with being outside the armor belt.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
I'm not sure Wraithbone is naturally conducive to cybernetic augmentation.
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Alratan's mentioned wraithbone cybernetics once, IIRC, but it is ever an open question what is included into quest-canon or not.

RE: Necron tech level
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TBQH we don't really lag behind that much, in terms of theoretical techbase. Podunk nothingburger dynasties do not have/cannot produce superweapons like Celestial Orrery or dudes like Orikan+Trazyn.

We have a bunch of very silly holes all over the place in our tech tree but a couple centuries without major disasters should allow Diaspora to re-consolidate. Once our everything is not equivalent of kitbashed technicals and dudes in the garage making hobbyist contraptions, things are likely to be remarkably close.
 
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