It's about 2EP per trooper, which is about 7-10% increase for total trooper costs. Not that much but not insignificant either.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
- Location
- Dragyxx
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The current iterated light vehicle would serve as a serviceable IFV. Not a great one, but plenty good enough that it's not really necessary to build a new chassis purely for an APC. It may only really be the equivalent of a Humvee rather than a true fully military vehicle, but an Eldar Humvee is still sufficient for transporting squads of troops with their own power armor. Engines may be a weakpoint, but the main body has some armor such that even if it gets crippled it would still at least work as an improvised bunker.
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- Location
- Seattle, Washington
Its good enough as an APC, for repositioning troops not under heavy contact, I agree. I don't see us making a dedicated APC chassis within the next few turns.
- Location
- Germany
Overall I expect to pay around 200 EP per transport with good defenses that keep the infantry we do have alive which would also roughly match the cost of the Mirage we currently have just way better in effect.
I would also expect that a medium chassis is going to work a lot better than a light one when it comes to using that as a transport chassis over light one.
Partially because the light one will have pretty much 0 retrofit capacity as we get more techs and options on what we can do with the vehicle.
I would also expect that a medium chassis is going to work a lot better than a light one when it comes to using that as a transport chassis over light one.
Partially because the light one will have pretty much 0 retrofit capacity as we get more techs and options on what we can do with the vehicle.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
By my calculation (base cost of light grav-vehicle chassis + EP cost of upgrades we chose), the chassis will likely be 144 EP, +48 EP for a holofield, conversion shield, and heavy weapon. So 200 EP is roughly right.
By comparison, I estimate a light chassis APC could be around 100-120 EP for 1 heavy weapon, 12 passengers, medium armor instead of light, and a holofield and conversion shield. So there are major potential cost savings available to incentivize designing a new light chassis for APC duties.
- Location
- Germany
Not really.
The problem with the light chassis it gives up everything to be cheap.
No potential to add more tech later on / iterations can't really fix it up with new/better tech.
If you want a new transporter that can include the new tech ?
Yeah, most likely will have to design a completely new chassis if you use light as a base for a transporter.
The cost differences when you don't try to be super cheap on a light vs medium chassis is going to be pretty damn small.
- Location
- Utrecht
Other than the thread favorite fusion mortar, which weapons would you like to see on the new chassis?
I'm undecided between point singularity projectors or vibration culverins. Both of those weapons are horrendously expensive, with a single psp costing 2 EP short of 2 Fusion mortars (62 vs 2x32).
I don't think we'll be putting those weapons on a light tank.
I think they'll see more use on the superheavy scale, where the costs are a lot closer (110 for the fusion mortar vs 175 for psp)
I'm undecided between point singularity projectors or vibration culverins. Both of those weapons are horrendously expensive, with a single psp costing 2 EP short of 2 Fusion mortars (62 vs 2x32).
I don't think we'll be putting those weapons on a light tank.
I think they'll see more use on the superheavy scale, where the costs are a lot closer (110 for the fusion mortar vs 175 for psp)
At 200 EP per apc we're looking at 15-16 extra EP per trooper, making infantry cost ineffective compared to tanks in most battlefield roles. You can field a full decked fata morgana tank at these prices or three light tanks instead of a single platoon.
I think we should aim at two platoons per tank price point, that just makes more sense to me.
I think we should aim at two platoons per tank price point, that just makes more sense to me.
- Location
- Germany
That's not going to happen without stripping out a lot of defenses and at that point you are just going to senselessly bleeding people.
Fata Morgana is going to be what a bit over 300 EP with full weaponloadout ?
You are looking at ~272 just for 12 Sunrifles for them + transport for them.
Even if you go for super cheap transport without any added defenses we are still looking at about 100 EP for that. With weapons and the defenses layers we want you are looking at least 160EP and that is still leaving weakpoints in the vehicle and that is a hyper-specialized chassis for 1 job that can't be used long term.
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- Pronouns
- Reader
What we can do is pair up rather than down. Instead of making a single light grav vehicle that barely carries a single squad 3 times and has very minimal defenses, we could make a single heavy grav one with the capacity to support 3 codependent squads more cheaply from having to produce fewer individual, well, everything. The larger transport would be attached to a single squad, and we could attach jetbikes in a sort of escort role to the other two squads. In this way we could even have spare capacity for say, rescuing downed tank crews?
Either way, it's distinctly a question for later since we won't be militarizing chassis again before we hit double digit turns in all likelihood.
Either way, it's distinctly a question for later since we won't be militarizing chassis again before we hit double digit turns in all likelihood.
Holo-field + flight + medium armor + one shield is perfectly good defense for an APC, and you probably can get that on a light chassis on the cheap. It'd also be a great chassis for a light tank.
Most people's APC only get light armor.
Eh, nobody will be satisfied, until we get Designs, that carry Armor as thick as a Planets Crust, Weapons and Shields with the Output of a Dyson Sphere, enough carrying Capacity to load it up with the Sum Total Biomass of the Tyranid Swarms with Teleport Capibility and all for the cost of nothing.
- Location
- Utrecht
you mean like necron monoliths ;p?
I'm acutely quite pleased with the tank we made. We just need some iteration to get it to a light transport.
We could replace the turret section with an armored door that opens like a car door and can be used as cover by the passengers add they deploy.
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Depending on how long designing the Fata Morgana hull takes, we might want to consider a dedicated assault transport, a Land Raider equivalent.
Heavy armour with additional super heavy armouring for the crew/passenger compartment, all five points in Manouverability, and a couple of extra engines dedicated to speed.
Essentially intended to produce something that can keep up with the Fata Morgana despite being heavily armoured, designed to deploy shock infantry in Ithilmar Warsuits right on top of the enemy either to breach their lines or to directly assault fortifications.
It would be expensive, but considering how expensive a fully equipped soldier in Ithilmar can be, given they can carry heavy weapons, it would probably be worth it.
Heavy armour with additional super heavy armouring for the crew/passenger compartment, all five points in Manouverability, and a couple of extra engines dedicated to speed.
Essentially intended to produce something that can keep up with the Fata Morgana despite being heavily armoured, designed to deploy shock infantry in Ithilmar Warsuits right on top of the enemy either to breach their lines or to directly assault fortifications.
It would be expensive, but considering how expensive a fully equipped soldier in Ithilmar can be, given they can carry heavy weapons, it would probably be worth it.
- Location
- Utrecht
Uhhh... No? Warp spiders risk their lives with every jump.thonk.jpg
Once diaspora cracks Warp Spiders, alternatives to dealing with awkward door placements might become available.
We're not going to use that as a feature of our transports.
Every time you use this device, there's a 1/36 chance that you get horribly eaten by demons.
No thanks.
Expensive transports make sense for specialist infantry, just part of a cost of having a great tool for special jobs. Like yeah, three platoons of double-shielded terminator-equivalents armed with a heavy weapon and power maul each in what's basically Crassus on steroids are going to cost us 80 EP each but there's nothing that can stop them after they pour in via an unplanned entrypoint made with a grav-sheer cannon.
RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
We simply need to put them in heavy enough armor that the demons cant do shit. It will be a very good testing ground for our invasion of Nurgles Garden.
- Location
- Utrecht
Our give them portable gellar fields.
But we are a craftspeople of engineers. We can design a vehicle that works well without resorting to magic as a first solution.
Teleportation devices are not magic. Or, if you want to approach it from the other angle, 99% of our techbase is magic, given that we build pretty much everything out of psycho-active self-regenerating material we spin out of warp energies.
Anyway, it was a semi-tongue in cheek suggestion, but if terminators can teleport without losing dudes, then it is a solvable engineering issue.
RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
If giving people heavy enough armor that demons simply cannot get through it is magic then im a magician.
- Location
- Utrecht
it's a solvable issue, sure. We can make it safe, with a lot of effort. Especially after we do the soulforging.
Imo, a warp jump generator will fall under Seer AP research, not Seeker AP. Like witchblades, ghosthelms and the like.
It's not ever going to be a replacement for a door on a light vehicle.
Ghosthelms can hide the presence of a soul within the warp, while gellar fields can project a field of reality while within the warp.
I could see a Vau-Vulkesh special unit with teleporters, ghosthelms, and a gellar field generator being able to teleport completely safely, for example.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Teleporting through a vehicle's hull instead of designing a proper door is a magic based solution to an engineering problem.
No, it is an Engineering Solution with a better understanding of the underlying Mechanism of the Materium/Warp. Otherwise you could call for us to give up Anti-Gravity Devices, because Wheels and Threads are clearly the better low Tech Engineering Solution.