I'm pretty sure we only get Detachment level bonuses if we have the associated commander in that Detachment.

Reading carefully, though, both Warhost and Detachment level bonuses should still apply if the commander is a singleton (provided they're in the correct detachment); attaching, say, a Warsinger to a Fast Attack squad within a detachment would still give the Warsinger detachment bonus to everyone in the detachment, and having a pack of Warmasters stiffening all the Troops squads in a detachment would grant the Warmaster bonus, and both would provide the Warhost bonus (assuming they're in the Warhost's HQ detachment).

So creating a standard HQ unit with Warmasters and Force Commanders and setting up Warsinger Captains and Warseer Commanders as singleton units would let us easily stick the Warmasters and Force Commanders everywhere without stopping us from using the Warsinger and Warseer bonuses (they'd just cost us extra org slots).

Assuming we're not automatically committing to a single Command Squad design right now, I'd default to Warsingers and Warseers as singletons with Warmasters and Force Commanders as a standard HQ unit, but preserve the option for Standard Squads of the Warmasters and Force Commanders just in case we can ever make up the numbers, and the ability to use Warsingers and Warseers as Command Squad units without immediately assigning them to any Command Squads so that we can eventually put them in HQ Detachments that way when we don't want to put them in any other detachment type's HQ units.

Long-term concern: we may well discover how to make dedicated CCC equipment, which will likely be much more efficient to attach to Command Squads than to singletons.
 
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Another question is. " How many HQ Units do we get per training spread?"

It looks like we got 6 per training run for Psykers, so...
 
Just confirming, but a Warhost Command unit applies its Warhost And it's Detachment bonuses to the entire Warhost? Is that correct @Mechanis ?

Or does it exclusively activate their Warhost Powers and we need Detachment Command units for Detachment Powers?

Training of these units is time consuming—one does not make a general overnight—but each offers a Detachment level bonus ability, and a second for Warhosts if placed as the Headquarters Detachment thereof.
[...]
Tactical Withdrawal gives a Detachment a chance to retreat in good order even if it would normally be routed or destroyed, lessening casualties.
[...]
Song of Battle allows a Detachment a chance to succeed on any non-critical failure when performing advanced tactics (Deep Striking, Etc);
[...]
Inspiring Presence provides a bonus to a Detachment's morale checks, making them less likely to be forced into retreat or routed;
[...]
Psykeic Guidance allows a Detachment to succeed at any normally failed roll, provided it is not a Critical Failure and the Magnitude of Failure is less than half the Target Number.
Not Mechanis (obviously), but I'm pretty sure the Detachment-level powers work only for whatever specific Detachment they're a HQ slot for.

Pre-post Edit:
Reading carefully, though, both Warhost and Detachment level bonuses should still apply if the commander is a singleton (provided they're in the correct detachment); attaching, say, a Warsinger to a Fast Attack squad within a detachment
The first is to deploy a Leader Unit as a Single Unit. While this results in a single Leader Unit occupying an entire organizational slot, it allows them to be freely attached to an 'extra' squad of Elites or Headquarters squad as a bodyguard unit if desired.
Not sure if we can actually do that with a Fast Attack squad. Unless we can make a Standard Squad of one and then attach them to a particular unit of the detachment we choose.

Another question is. " How many HQ Units do we get per training spread?"

It looks like we got 6 per training run for Psykers, so...
It's a mystery!
 
@Mechanis, can we pick multiple options for a hero unit?

So we can have them in a command squad but also have the option to take standard squads of them?

I'd be tempted to have Warseer Commanders as Single leaders and then have everyone else be in a Command Squad and be available in Standard Squads.
 
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One of the squads we should design is the current HQ squad + a Standard Squad?
we can then do a refit rule to replace them on the higher value detachtments.
 
@Mechanis, can we pick multiple options for a hero unit?

So we can have them in a command squad but also have the option to take standard squads of them?
[ ] Single Units
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warsinger Captain
[ ] Standard Squad
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warsinger Captain
would qualify under "You may select any combination of the above options" so, presumably yes.

The question is if we can do something like
[ ] Command Squad: Grunts
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warmaster
[ ] Command Squad: HOLD, DAMN YOU!
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warmaster
- [ ] Warseer Commander
[ ] Command Squad: Blind Striking
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warsinger Captain
- [ ] Warmaster
[ ] Command Squad: Full House
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warsinger Captain
- [ ] Warmaster
- [ ] Warseer Commander
 
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@Mechanis, can we pick multiple options for a hero unit?
I think this answers your question:
you may deploy your Leader Units in any and all configurations if desired, and issue different equipment depending on how you intend to deploy them.

Another question is. " How many HQ Units do we get per training spread?"
At a guess, eight - same as the maximum in a Standard Squad. But I suspect this is information we've intentionally not been given.

Anyways, as a quick reminder to what org chart spaces cost us - we get two HQ squads for "free." The third and forth cost us slots that could have been used for Troops or Elites.
 
One of the squads we should design is the current HQ squad + a Standard Squad?
we can then do a refit rule to replace them on the higher value detachtments.
Just make a Detachment command squad with force commander and war leader, then use auto-refit to replace veteran squads with the new command squad. That's how I would do it

[ ] Single Units
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warsinger Captain
[ ] Standard Squad
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warsinger Captain
would qualify under "You may select any combination of the above options" so, presumably yes.

The question is if we can do something like
[ ] Command Squad: Basic Bitches
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warmaster
[ ] Command Squad: HOLD, DAMN YOU!
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warmaster
- [ ] Warseer Commander
[ ] Command Squad: Blind Striking
- [ ] Force Commander
- [ ] Warsinger Captain
- [ ] Warmaster
Just make 2 command squads: a basic one for Detachments, and one with all 4 for either elite Detachments or leading warhosts
 
So, I think we should go with

[] Plan Option Value
- [] Single Units
-- [ ] [Single] Force Commander
-- [ ] [Single] Warsinger Captain
-- [ ] [Single] Warmaster
-- [ ] [Single] Warseer Commander
- [ ] Standard Squad
-- [ ] [Standard] Force Commander
-- [ ] [Standard] Warsinger Captain
-- [ ] [Standard] Warmaster
-- [ ] [Standard] Warseer Commander
- [ ] Command Squad 1
-- [ ] [Command1] Force Commander
-- [ ] [Command1] Warsinger Captain
-- [ ] [Command1] Warmaster
-- [ ] [Command1] Warseer Commander
- [ ] Command Squad 2
-- [ ] [Command2] Force Commander
-- [ ] [Command2] Warsinger Captain
-- [ ] [Command2] Warmaster
- [ ] Command Squad 3
-- [ ] [Command3] Force Commander
-- [ ] [Command3] Warmaster
- [ ] Command Squad 4
-- [ ] [Command4] Force Commander
-- [ ] [Command4] Warsinger Captain
- [ ] Command Squad 5
-- [ ] [Command5] Force Commander
-- [ ] [Command5] Warmaster
-- [ ] [Command5] Warseer Commander

I think it's a shame that we only have mid level offices and no senior officers. We probably want to change that at some point for Warhost commanders.
 
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Just make 2 command squads: a basic one for Detachments, and one with all 4 for either elite Detachments or leading warhosts
First, it's probably worth designing a Force Com+Warsinger+Warmaster Command Squad given that Warsingers take up Seer AP rather than Warrior AP and thus may sometimes have supply issues the other three won't have.
Second, it's probably worth designing a Force Com+Warmaster+Warseer Command Squad for Detachments in a Warhost that won't be using advanced tactics that could benefit from Song of Battle but will be doing important enough tasks (say, acting as the anvil in a hammer+anvil setup) that Psykeic Guidance preventing failures is valuable enough to invest in.
Designing these squads costs us (as far as we know) nothing, but just taking the basic setup and having to fill them where we can't or don't need to could cost us a lot of time and AP.
 
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First, it's probably worth designing a Force Com+Warsinger+Warmaster Command Squad given that Warsingers take up Seer AP rather than Warrior AP and thus may sometimes have supply issues the other three won't have.
Second, it's probably worth designing a Force Com+Warmaster+Warseer Command Squad for Detachments in a Warhost that won't be using advanced tactics that could benefit from Song of Battle but will be doing important enough tasks (say, acting as the anvil in a hammer+anvil setup) that Psykeic Guidance preventing failures is valuable enough to invest in.
Designing these squads costs us nothing, but just taking the basic setup and having to fill them where we can't or don't need to could cost us a lot of time and AP.

I think the four command squads I put in above fill enough of the possibility space. I dinner think we need a Warmaster + Warsinger Captain squad without a Force Commander.
 
I think it's a shame that we only have mid level offices and no senior officers.
?

Warsinger Captains were as high as we could go. Do you mean "why isn't there a General scale unit"? It wouldn't surprise me if the answer to that is that our raising of troops resembles that of stateless peoples a lot more than it does 20th century armies, and so our commanders only go as high as they can while maintaining personal relationships with their troops.

Also, I don't think we're designing HQ squads at the moment, we're just assigning commanders to buckets for when designing HQ squads. Not like we're picking equipment at the moment.
 
If anyone has ever played dawn of war this seems to be similar to that? Basically when we click the 'add leader' for a squad who is going to show up, and how good are they supposed to be?
 
- [ ] Command Squad 2
-- [ ] [Command2] Force Commander
-- [ ] [Command2] Warsinger Captain
-- [ ] [Command2] Warmaster
- [ ] Command Squad 4
-- [ ] [Command4] Force Commander
-- [ ] [Command4] Warsinger Captain
I don't think we'd ever having reason to use Squad 4 rather than Squad 2?

I think the four command squads I put in above fill enough of the possibility space. I dinner think we need a Warmaster + Warsinger Captain squad without a Force Commander.
I'd agree with that second sentence, but I also didn't suggest that, so...?
 
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Ok, So we can have the warseer be an independent character, that we assign to a warhost squad with force commander, warmaster, and warsinger captain.

Edit: @Mechanis actually, why are we even having this vote now? We don't know how many leaders we can train, and it going to be at least 2 more turns before any are ready. Why wouldn't we decide what layouts to use once the commanders are trained
 
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Ok, So we can have the warseer be an independent character, that we assign to a warhost squad with force commander, warmaster, and warsinger captain.

That means we couldn't, in a sufficiently valuable detachment, have unit leaders as well

For some detachments we might want, for example, a full command squad of four and eight of a commander type to command each squad in the detachment.

?

Warsinger Captains were as high as we could go. Do you mean "why isn't there a General scale unit"? It wouldn't surprise me if the answer to that is that our raising of troops resembles that of stateless peoples a lot more than it does 20th century armies, and so our commanders only go as high as they can while maintaining personal relationships with their troops.

Also, I don't think we're designing HQ squads at the moment, we're just assigning commanders to buckets for when designing HQ squads. Not like we're picking equipment at the moment.

I suspect that the Warlord is a general level unit, for example.

I don't think we'd ever having reason to use Squad 4 rather than Squad 2?

Depends on whether we want to, for example, save up Warmasters to deploy a Standard Squad of them to act as unit commanders.

For example, if we have a shock infantry detachment then giving each infantry squad a Warmaster to lead it might be desirable.
 
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That means we couldn't, in a sufficiently valuable detachment, have unit leaders as well

For some detachments we might want, for example, a full command squad of four and eight of a commander type to command each squad in the detachment
These leaders don't give benefits to their squad though. Why wouldn't we instead have a "squad leader" rare unit for squads
 
These leaders don't give benefits to their squad though. Why wouldn't we instead have a "squad leader" rare unit for squads

We don't actually know what commanders so when attached to squads. I'd imagine they'd provide some benefits.

To take the example of Warmasters, they can grant echoes of the blessings of Khaine, allowing Eldar to fight with uncanny ferocity. That would presumably make melee squads more deadly.
 
These leaders don't give benefits to their squad though. Why wouldn't we instead have a "squad leader" rare unit for squads
I don't think we're getting new rare unit types anytime soon. These and our psykers are what we've got.

And we know that we can upgrade these units in the future. Squad-level bonuses are probably some of the upgrades available.
 
Actually, the post says we can deploy commanders in any and all ways, so we might as well choose "all of the above" for every commander
 
I don't think we're getting new rare unit types anytime soon. These and our psykers are what we've got.

And we know that we can upgrade these units in the future. Squad-level bonuses are probably some of the upgrades available.
Well, Rare Units or not, we do explicitly have other Squad Leader options opening up soon:
You can add more and or better Leader Unit types later, yes... but that costs more AP the more types you already have. And competes with getting more advanced versions of your existing leader types. And, at least in the immediate sense, with other leadership options, like Squad Leaders, that you might want to invest in in the next few turns.

That said,
These leaders don't give benefits to their squad though. Why wouldn't we instead have a "squad leader" rare unit for squads
considering the Standard Squad is explicitly called out as being able to break up and attach to the detachment's squads, presumably there's some benefit to doing so.
 
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But yeah, broadly speaking.

I'm thinking we use Warmaster and Force Commander blocks as our Standard Squad options, Warseers should be deployed as singleton attachments as available (I think we can attach Single Unit forces to other HQ stacks and get their benefits, could you please confirm @Mechanis ? ) However, our Command Squads should be reserved for elite Warhosts though, but contain an element from each of our command groups to fully spread their Warhost benefits outward.
 
I don't see why we don't go for the most flexible set of possible options.

We don't want to need to spend two HQ choices to get all four types of officers in a single squad if we can just have a squad with all four of them at once as a single HQ choice.
 
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