ConfusedPotato
Unverified Verifier
- Location
- Australia
Do we need to carve out a timeslot for people to come to us? After all we did invite the Harlequins, didn't we?
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Good.
That's an excellent foundation for setting up a mutual defence pact thingy, where if enough people complain to each other about Biel-Tan in the future, then a whole bunch of literal craftworlds group together and kill them.
Just burn those fuckers from the sky.
- Location
- madison
Biel-Tan might end up being a major contributing factor to the craft worlds being more coordinated, simply because they ensured in the early days while the dust was settling there was a common asshole to rally against.
- Location
- Utrecht
Baby's first villain: Nurgle is a distant goal for everyone involved. But luckily we have another asshole we can point at to keep the diplomacy going strong.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Iyanden: "Fucking char-gen bullshit sticking us with these assholes. Why didn't we get a say!?
At the very least we should have gotten three or four extra starting points."
Last edited:
- Location
- United Kingdom
I'm not sure that's a viable use for their forces, considering they're here to help protect us specifically.
Meros was fine because they were supplementing the forces we'd already sent, and the same for the pirate hunters.
Edit: We could probably do an introduction so said Craftworld can negotiate with Zahr-Tan directly?
It was probably a free pick for Iyanden!Quest: they got a Major Craftworld as an ally out of it, but on the other hand it's Biel-Tan.
Last edited:
- Location
- Utrecht
With friends like these, who needs enemies?
Probably their starting location also cost some points, we just prefered being next to the eye of terror than in the same part of galaxy as them
I think that we don't have enough street creed for the free action, yet.
And I would give Iyanden a chance/day to research that Biel-tan was a bitch. I personally think that vaguely warning Iyanden that Biel-tan was not what it seemed could help us punish and prevent it from acting up again, at least until the great crusade.
Last edited:
- Location
- Space
That's big if, there's also a possibility that they just bring up accusations against Biel-Tan to other Craftworlds without even approaching Iyanden catching them by surprise and making everyone else point accusatory finger against Biel-Tan and by extension against Iyanden's faction forcing them to put an united front to save face as abandoning Biel-Tan at this time without any other alternative would just leave them completely without the faction by association.
In that case it makes far more sense to hold united front with Biel-Tan and use the goodwill from Soulstones to soften any fallout, then deal with Biel-Tan in private as that way they at least keep the Major Craftworld on their side.
This is why i prefer to approach Iyanden in advance to assure them of our goodwill. That way at least Iyanden would have more time to prepare.
Last edited:
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I think Saim-Han should take the lead on this, and we should avoid doing stuff that might undermine[1] their efforts.
"Biel-Tan are being fuckheads" is Saim-Han's thing at this moot, if they think informing Lyanden ahead of time is a good idea, then they will do so.
We've told Saim-Han to add us to the list of people who have [problems] with Biel-Tan, so all we have to do now is make approving noises when Saim-Han brings up the issue publicly.
[1] And informing Lyanden is something that might undermine those efforts if Lyanden tells Biel-Tan, and thus Biel-Tan has time and an opportunity to try and spin some of their bullshit to Lyanden.
----
I think our time is better spent on stuff that we know will be useful, or at least is not actively detrimental.
Last edited:
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We brought these 2, so maybe we should try to see if there are some martial types we can talk to to take advantage?
Get some info and inspiration on the latest tactics, talk shop, stuff like that?
Going back to tech trades, I think it makes a vastly stronger statement if we follow up the reveal of Biel Tan trying to steal our and others technology by an offer to share what we have with all Eldar who are prepared to sign up to a pact of good faith dealing and working together to deal with the Curses.
In some ways, this is the best time to try this; as the contrast is so strong.
Not only does it make us look good, but it really reveals how stupid and flawed the Biel Tan approach is if we're prepared to share with our allies what they decided to kill other Eldar for.
Not only that, but I think that the overall stronger the Eldar are, the better. Trying to maintain a monopoly is the first step on the road that ends up where Biel-Tan is, thinking that the individual power of your own Craftworld is the most important thing, and being prepared to harm other Eldar who could be allies to do so.
Whether that harm is by omission or commissions, the end result of other Eldar not having access to better tech is that more of them will die and we're less likely to succeed.
Combining our reveal of the Curses, the reveal of what Biel-Tan was planning, and us openly sharing our technological know-how, and we'd look amazing. It would really qualify us for a leadership role; as we move demonstrated that we're far sighted, can see the bigger picture, and won't get caught up in parochial concerns, rivalries, or old hatreds.
After all, the combat power of the other Eldar factions here relative to us no longer really matters, as our reputation with the Harlequins and the other majors ensure we're not in danger of attack by them.
What matters is magnifying our soft power, and I think this is the best way to do it.
Tech sharing also makes it much much likely, I think, that other factions won't try to keep hidden trump cards, and will instead reveal them. These trump cards may help everyone survive, particularly as there may well be some that work best when used in combination, or are very useful as part of Curse research, and may well be useful in ways not obvious to their current owners, so they need to be shared to be really valuable.
In some ways, this is the best time to try this; as the contrast is so strong.
Not only does it make us look good, but it really reveals how stupid and flawed the Biel Tan approach is if we're prepared to share with our allies what they decided to kill other Eldar for.
Not only that, but I think that the overall stronger the Eldar are, the better. Trying to maintain a monopoly is the first step on the road that ends up where Biel-Tan is, thinking that the individual power of your own Craftworld is the most important thing, and being prepared to harm other Eldar who could be allies to do so.
Whether that harm is by omission or commissions, the end result of other Eldar not having access to better tech is that more of them will die and we're less likely to succeed.
Combining our reveal of the Curses, the reveal of what Biel-Tan was planning, and us openly sharing our technological know-how, and we'd look amazing. It would really qualify us for a leadership role; as we move demonstrated that we're far sighted, can see the bigger picture, and won't get caught up in parochial concerns, rivalries, or old hatreds.
After all, the combat power of the other Eldar factions here relative to us no longer really matters, as our reputation with the Harlequins and the other majors ensure we're not in danger of attack by them.
What matters is magnifying our soft power, and I think this is the best way to do it.
Tech sharing also makes it much much likely, I think, that other factions won't try to keep hidden trump cards, and will instead reveal them. These trump cards may help everyone survive, particularly as there may well be some that work best when used in combination, or are very useful as part of Curse research, and may well be useful in ways not obvious to their current owners, so they need to be shared to be really valuable.
Last edited:
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
The big problem with tech trades is that the vast majority of stuff is not trivially traded. It's not some blueprints that you hand over, it's insitutional experience, learned skills from bonesingers, and so on.
Still, I think an exchange program should be viable and good.
Still, I think an exchange program should be viable and good.
- Location
- Space
Problem with that approach is that they might approach this to strong which might galvanize Iyanden to close ranks at least for a moment.
Other point of interacting with Iyanden isn't about going against Biel-Tan opposed to about us building our own relationships. Let Saim-Han deal with Biel-Tan (they are stronger and can bear the consequences better, plus their word has more weight), but we still could contact Iyanden and tell them about Biel-Tan privately so they at least aren't caught out of guard so they might owe us one here. This would help us wonderfully in our future dealings both with Iyanden and Biel-Tan as Iyanden would have extra reason to rein them in against us.
We generally shouldn't just let an opportunity like this to go to waste while we sit at sidelines.
Plus we really don't have a lot of other things to do and we planned to meet with Iyanden anyway down the line.
Last edited:
- Location
- Utrecht
[] Plan: Political moves
-[][FIRST] Meet with the Neutral and Independent craftworlds. Identify the notables, and extend a helping hand, within reason. Gather more evidence about Biel-tan's misdeeds.
-[][SECOND] Make a peace offering to the Asuryani. Acknowledge their paths as a functioning interim solution, and hint at having a clearer picture of the magnitude of the solution required than you did twenty years ago, which will be useful in making something more effective.
-[][THIRD] Reveal Biel-Tan's violent rapacity to Iyanden. Give them a day's advance notice to attempt some political face-saving posturing.
-[][FIRST] Meet with the Neutral and Independent craftworlds. Identify the notables, and extend a helping hand, within reason. Gather more evidence about Biel-tan's misdeeds.
-[][SECOND] Make a peace offering to the Asuryani. Acknowledge their paths as a functioning interim solution, and hint at having a clearer picture of the magnitude of the solution required than you did twenty years ago, which will be useful in making something more effective.
-[][THIRD] Reveal Biel-Tan's violent rapacity to Iyanden. Give them a day's advance notice to attempt some political face-saving posturing.
Last edited:
The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
I'm not even joking about the holy war thing. Khaine finally redeems himself at the last second and these fuckwits decide to defile that by embodying his two greatest sins, kinslaying and the slaving of industry to purely military purposes? We should lobby for a full censure, imprisonment of the guilty parties and redistribution of their resources to the injured Craftworlds (notably not including us since they haven't attacked yet and to make it seem less like a power grab on our part).
Nega!Mechanis: the real question you should have been asking from the start is why being allied with them was free and neutral cost points.
- Location
- Utrecht
Crimes like that are a lot easier to hide from half a galaxy away.
Iyanden wants the Empire from the era when the gods smiled at them like doting parents.
Biel Tan wants the Empire from the era when the Eldar strode the stars like unstoppable gods.
Both refer to it as the Dominion during negotiations, and agree to not hash out the details until it becomes realistic to do so, not realizing the incompatibility of their goals until much later in the game.
Last edited:
I think they only actually attacked exodites for now.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
It's a rather shrewd, if evil plan.
Impress Exodites, then throw them a craftworld's defenses while you loot everything with your experienced forces.
Luckily that the attack never went of, because I would be rather salty if we lost the forges.
- Location
- Germany
Props followed by orbital bombardment to make sure we couldn't complain.
- Location
- Utrecht
Hmm, would analyzing the Ishari transformation help advance Kher-Ys's project?
I think you're overplaying this significantly.
There's no evidence Biel-Tan wanted to enslave anyone that I can see.
They wanted to play bandit, stealing relics and archives of knowledge.
That's bad, and in some ways may have left Craftworlds more vulnerable than if they had conquered them, but it's not chaining anyone to any anvils that I can see.
And Kinslaying may well be something that has lost a lot of moral impact in the sixty five million years when Eldar didn't die when they were killed, and it may take time for the habit of it being wrong to reestablish. Eldar could well have killed each other in games or training exercises or because it was a fast way of getting out of a rough spot without a single moral qualm only a couple of decades back.
It doesn't seem so, they just expected the Craftworlds weakened by being looted to be killed by non-Eldar, so their hands would appear clean of their final destruction.
And may not have even attacked them, just conscripted their forces under the threat of attack.
Last edited:
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
The problem here is that I have no idea how many chances we have to propose things during/after the main meeting - but Voidcannon are important enough that I think proposing a "Inter-craftworld/exoidte world Voidcannon research and development program" should be done in the same segment as our announcement of Isha living/intoducing the dryad-Eldar.
----
Anyway, here's a loose list of some of things I want out of this moot, though it is very 'spitbally' and a some probably aren't worth the AP, or might be a bad idea outright:
Low cost in terms of future AP:
1. Better relationship with Asuryani-path people, since their solution a) available right now, and b) not incompatible with our long term solution.
2. Promote the the benefits of a diversity of approaches - example: the tree-people's did loose their ability to make wraithbone, (and we'd never expect anyone to give that up), but they scry from a different perspective - and the value of that is magnified when their information can be shared.
3. Setting up an opt-in system/process for information sharing regarding webway mapping and realspace scouting (this is something I'd like to quietly not invite the Revanchists to take part in, because Biel-Tan. Just... Biel-Tan).
4. Setting up an opt-in system for sharing whatever scrying results people want to share. Example: present-scrying of an orc fleet in one region could free up scryer-ap from neighbouring craftworlds or allow for comparing scrys, which will help with error checking/verification.
(3 and 4 can help the Aeldari as a group be more aware of enemy movements/buildups throughout the galaxy).
Greater/longer term costs in terms of AP
1. We have shipyards (They're kind of one of our two main things) depending on how much AP it costs us to keep rebuilds/repairs going, we're happy to offer the use of many of our slots.
2. [note, I have no idea how useful this might be] To the adaptionists: We have a Vaulic Academy, don't know if you do or not, but depending on the AP costs in helping setting one up, might you be interested?
3. Spirit Stone production is vital and Tesseract Arcs could be a massive advantage. What would us helping look in in terms of AP? [Our Seer-AP is spoken for, but we might have Seeker-AP
4. If anyone can offer us something worth the cost in AP, after we get our engines running, we might be amenable to helping getting a Starcrystal farm/Fatefoge set up, but again, that would be costly (this offer would only be made to people who would be invested in keeping such tech out of the hands of Beil-Tan)
[ ] Vaulic Academy (-1 point)
In times past, the Aeldari have studied many technologies—and before pride curdled into arrogance, often those of other races, adapting their principles to their use. Such studies have lain fallow for many long millennia now, those Vaulic Academies not repurposed sealed away and
nearly forgotten. Yet in this age of uncertainty, perhaps the time is right to open them once more, for the study of "lesser" technologies might be necessary in the coming days.
In times past, the Aeldari have studied many technologies—and before pride curdled into arrogance, often those of other races, adapting their principles to their use. Such studies have lain fallow for many long millennia now, those Vaulic Academies not repurposed sealed away and
nearly forgotten. Yet in this age of uncertainty, perhaps the time is right to open them once more, for the study of "lesser" technologies might be necessary in the coming days.
Last edited: