I think broadly, we want to feel out the vibes of the Asuryani block as a whole and soothe some rumpled feathers, and get a private meeting with Iyanden to see if we can get them to run herd on Biel-Tan for now, so they don't fuck shit up.
On the subject of Iyanden, we've actually got a way to get them to owe us a big favor.

Right now, they're being tarred for their association with Biel-Tan, who have been running around stealing other people's shinies. They need a big boost diplomatically, and we have a way to give them one - teach them how to make psy-scopes and starcrystal, on the condition that they teach everyone else. Biel-Tan last, for the obvious reasons.

Giving everyone shinies is a great way to make up for Biel-Tan stealing shinies, and it's entirely within Iyanden's political philosophy to be rebuilding pre-Fall industry. And my impression is that they don't actually have a desperate need for that industry right now.

This assumes we want our lostech spread around rather than preserved as a special advantage for ourselves, but if we do want it spread around, there's a hell of a lot of BAP savings in getting Iyanden to do it for us.
 
Not going to lie Biel-tan really sounding close to the 'burn the world to rule the ashes' type.

Least as far as the fate of the Eldar are concerned, cuz they should have plenty of better things to do than harass other Eldar at this point.

I just hate them in cannon they will sacrifice elder for empty maiden worlds all for reclaiming a empire that never coming back they are straight up huffing copeieum when the main goul of the eldar should be just having more kids and trying to avoid being murdered Biel-tan are the main source of elder pirates
 
On the subject of Iyanden, we've actually got a way to get them to owe us a big favor.

Right now, they're being tarred for their association with Biel-Tan, who have been running around stealing other people's shinies. They need a big boost diplomatically, and we have a way to give them one - teach them how to make psy-scopes and starcrystal, on the condition that they teach everyone else. Biel-Tan last, for the obvious reasons.

Giving everyone shinies is a great way to make up for Biel-Tan stealing shinies, and it's entirely within Iyanden's political philosophy to be rebuilding pre-Fall industry. And my impression is that they don't actually have a desperate need for that industry right now.

This assumes we want our lostech spread around rather than preserved as a special advantage for ourselves, but if we do want it spread around, there's a hell of a lot of BAP savings in getting Iyanden to do it for us.
While I do like the idea of strengthening the Eldar as a whole I think that taking steps to curtail Biel-Tan's influence and ability to get up to shenanigans may have a greater knock on effect right now especially if their forced to make reparations as well.
 
I wouldn't want to drop that except for a very large concession. And I can't think of much that would warrant surrendering that kind of edge to someone who's still ultimately a political rival, even if we have no personal animosity.

To be clear, I would actually be perfectly fine trading Needle/Spike weaponry designs, but anything that requires Exotics is probably something we should keep as an in-house special unless we're repaid in kind. Favors are great, but when there's a big power imbalance involved, they're not reliable, and Iyanden is the 800 pound gorilla of the diaspora--even after the mauling they start taking in the 40K era, they're still a Major Craftworld.
 
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Yeah before we get to trading ether our star or fate weapons we've got our needle/spike, plasma and grav weapons and after that we've got grav and conversion shields and holo-fields for anyone who has yet to develop them.
 
Yeah, I'd only consider trading Starcrystal/Psy-Scope production secrets for a similarly priceless asset that can't be acquired for any amount of mere resources. Completed products? Maybe, but creating a new Fateforge or Crystal Farm is a large overlay in our expertise and production, and shouldn't be done for something as nebulous as a mere 'Favor'
 
I might consider it if they offered us the secrets of Voidcannons or a Psychomaton Forge but the chances of something that rare is low.
 
As expected, the Asuryani are in a very strong position on the grounds of "your souls are being eaten RIGHT NOW. If you don't want your souls eaten, this provably stops it" and frankly no one else has anything to offer that matches that.

Ulthwe is compelling to anyone who thinks they will die of other things before their souls get eaten, since their rallying cry is togetherness and mutual aid which will stop people from dying right now, but none of what they present are solutions to the problem that the Asuryani are solving. Or, well, "solving".

Our faction presenting our research will bring us a lot of credibility in that we can promise to solve these problems eventually- but we don't have any immediate solution for right now except to point at the Ishari and go "turning into plantpeople worked for them". And most people won't want to do what they did, so ultimately we're building our entire credibility on the promise of future solutions instead of on concrete offerings that give at least a partial solution right now.

Overall I think the Asuryani are going to keep growing, and fairly aggressively, because even the people who believe in us and want us to succeed- perhaps even to the point of backing us in alliance- aren't going to want to keep having their souls eaten while they wait. And we don't have anything that can stop this. Our best bet is probably to make friends with as many people as we can who are either in the Asuryani camp for pragmatic reasons or drifting that way, and ally with them on the logic of "even if you're doing what works now as a patch job, put your faith in us for a better more permanent solution later". Arguing that our two solutions are not opposed but rather addressing the problem on different timescales could avoid a lot of conflict and bring us long-term political stability and credibility.
An astute analysis, this.
Not going to lie Biel-tan really sounding close to the 'burn the world to rule the ashes' type.

Least as far as the fate of the Eldar are concerned, cuz they should have plenty of better things to do than harass other Eldar at this point.
This is, in fact, their entire Praxis; "We'll just kill everything that we think is standing in the way of Glorious Aeldari Empire 2.0, including other Aeldari who disagree with us loudly enough (if we think we can get away with it,)." Yes this is incredibly self-defeating.
 
While significantly less valuable compared to Voidcannons Flamespears would actually be pretty valuable for when we raid Nurgles realm to Jailbreak Isha since they are noted to be extremely effective against enemies which can regenerate which Nurgle has in spades.

Considering the fact that it was a -1 point cost vs the Voidcannons -2 during faction creation it can probably be produced in far greater numbers, might even be cheaper than Starlances given the fact that Starlances are specifically stated to have more raw power.

This is, in fact, their entire Praxis; "We'll just kill everything that we think is standing in the way of Glorious Aeldari Empire 2.0, including other Aeldari who disagree with us loudly enough (if we think we can get away with it,)." Yes this is incredibly self-defeating.
Its a testament to how good they are at killing stuff that they're still strong and kicking even in 40k despite how self-defeating their ideology is.

Iyanden must have known at least to some degree how much of a mess they were ideologically when they were all buddying up with them but did they just have an "I can fix them" approach and attitude?
 
An astute analysis, this.

This is, in fact, their entire Praxis; "We'll just kill everything that we think is standing in the way of Glorious Aeldari Empire 2.0, including other Aeldari who disagree with us loudly enough (if we think we can get away with it,)." Yes this is incredibly self-defeating.

So, they took a build that basically dumpstatted foreign relationships to maximize their POWER, and assumed they could just plunder everything else they needed in the chaos, and then lord over everyone else in the aftermath, huh?

Geez, even if nothing else happens, revealing their perfidy this early is going to Torpedo their faction, and everyone even vaguely associated with them. It might even push Iyanden to Asuryani simply to get the fuck away from that radioactive ball of hate.
 
Iyanden must have known at least to some degree how much of a mess they were ideologically when they were all buddying up with them but did they just take an "I can fix them" approach?
I think Beil-Tan just did good at hiding the worst of their stuff.

Both Craftworlds want the old empire back... I think we just need to stress that Beil-Tan wants it back specifically with them on top.
 
so a thought, right now we have no real conflict with the Asuryani, and even once they have the paths spun up the only disagreement would be if its a short or long term solution. I wonder if we could propose future collaboration? I think they would have the skillset to help us come up with a somewhat custom stop gap solution while we search for a deeper fix. Realistically, I think their approach of spiritualism and specific thought patterns are going to be what everyone, even the Adaptionists use to stave off the curse for the next few decades or centuries, its just the Adaptionists are going to be working to replace it with something better. Further, I think their insights into the eldar mindset would be quite useful when we're trying to modify it.
 
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I think Beil-Tan just did good at hiding the worst of their stuff.

Both Craftworlds want the old empire back... I think we just need to stress that Beil-Tan wants it back specifically with them on top.

Iyanden explicitly didn't, and grew increasingly distant with them as time went on as they continued stirring shit up and making things more difficult for everyone in their antics.

It's just they made a good face and they had a lot of guns, and said the right mouth-words, and Iyanden was too busy to actually look closer than that until things settled and it was a fait accompli.
 
Geez, even if nothing else happens, revealing their perfidy this early is going to Torpedo their faction, and everyone even vaguely associated with them. It might even push Iyanden to Asuryani simply to get the fuck away from that radioactive ball of hate.
Possible though from what I remember lyanden before the Nids got em would be strong enough to head a faction without Beil-Tan so it could also just see the Revanchists sub-divide.
 
I've been thinking about what to do with the many, many lance sloops in our fleet. I have a few options...

Falconet-class Sloop
• 1x Heavy Las-Lance
• 1x Lascannon Point Defense
• 2x Æthersails
• 1x Holofield (3 NEP)

Shrike-class Sloop
• 1x Heavy Las-Lance
• 1x Spike Cannon Macrobattery (3 NEP)
• 1x Lascannon Point Defense
• 2x Æthersails
• 1x Holofield (3 NEP)

Sparkle-Shrike class sloop
• 1x Heavy Graviton Thruster Lance (14 NEP)
• 1x Suncannon Macrobattery (5 NEP)
• 1x Lascannon Point Defense
• 2x Æthersails
• 1x Holofield (3NEP)

Lanii-class Sloop
• 1x Heavy Torpedo launcher (?? NEP)
• 1x Lascannon Point Defense
• 2x Æthersails
• 1x Holofield (3 NEP)
• 1x Expanded Ordinance Magazines (? NEP)

The Falconet is the cheap and cheerful, the Shrike is the 'mass producible' design, the Sparkle-shrike is the 'if we have time' option, and the Lanii is the 'what would a torpedo-boat even look like?' option.
 
Possible though from what I remember lyanden before the Nids got em would be strong enough to head a faction without Beil-Tan so it could also just see the Revanchists sub-divide.
A Revanchist faction with no Biel-Tan, if Iyanden can pull together enough for it, would be a possible political counterweight to the Asuryani in a way we currently can't be.

Now, we don't particularly like either faction more than the other, but we've got entirely personal beef with Alaitoc who are the leadership of the Asuryani, so we'd prefer a counterweight to them exist so Alaitoc can't use their political power to put the squeeze on us.
 
So, they took a build that basically dumpstatted foreign relationships to maximize their POWER, and assumed they could just plunder everything else they needed in the chaos, and then lord over everyone else in the aftermath, huh?

Geez, even if nothing else happens, revealing their perfidy this early is going to Torpedo their faction, and everyone even vaguely associated with them. It might even push Iyanden to Asuryani simply to get the fuck away from that radioactive ball of hate.
On that note, what do you think about my proposal for skipping Iyanden this turn? If nothing else, I'm pretty sure the accusations will bear a lot more weight if they come from a Major Craftworld like Saim-Hann instead of us.
 
A new Sloop would be best done as a torpedo boat I think, put Heavy Torpedo Launchers in the heavy battery and a decent ranged weapon, and they could do a solid shoot-and-scoot build to herd enemies into our killboxes.

On that note, what do you think about my proposal for skipping Iyanden this turn? If nothing else, I'm pretty sure the accusations will bear a lot more weight if they come from a Major Craftworld like Saim-Hann instead of us.

I see what you're getting at, I'm just a little worried that they'll go full stick without a carrot and get Iyanden all hyper-defensive.

Asuryani and a free action I feel are absolutely required however. If we do decide to go that way, it might be wise to keep consolidating our block with the Adaptionists.
 
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oh actually, another idea. Partially to drive another political spike into Biel-Tann and partially because it's a good idea, should we try and get everyone to agree to some kind of non aggression pact? even if its not a hard "no fighting" rule, hard limits on what conflict between eldar looks like would be popular I think. lyanden may not like no longer being able to subtly threaten people for leverage, but I don't think they would dare openly oppose such a proposal if we cast it as in response to Biel-Tann's attacks.
 
Muirgaythh leads a small coalition of themselves and the minor craftworlds of Faer-Kairn and Il'Tah'yrd who have been working to recreate the Tesseract Arcs of the Necrons—which have held gods, before—and believe that if they succeed, it will be possible to weaken the Ruinous Ones by trapping their servants—especially those counted among the Exalted—in those inescapable prisons, cut off from the Immaterium.
Looks over at Curse Details.

How much for one of your Birb cages?!? Nvm! Shut up and take my money!
 
Basically, Iyanden was roundabout a bit northeast of the Gothic Sector for most of that relationship - basically the opposite side of the galaxy - and consequently didn't really hear much about Biel-Tan's dickery. And then they got eaten by Tyranids, went south to consolidate, and suddenly not only were they no longer too big for Biel-Tan to push around, but also having all of Biel-Tan's dickery happening right in their backyard where they can easily see it. The relationship broke down pretty fast after that, with Iyanden drifting more into Alatoc's SoI.
Edit: Though it is important to note, I think, that Iyanden was always far more invested in that relationship than Biel-Tan was.
 
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A new Sloop would be best done as a torpedo boat I think, put Heavy Torpedo Launchers in the heavy battery and a decent ranged weapon, and they could do a solid shoot-and-scoot build to herd enemies into our killboxes.
A thought I had was make half of our Sloops torpedo boats and make the other half thruster lance boats as we're not limited to only using one ship design at a time.
 
oh actually, another idea. Partially to drive another political spike into Biel-Tann and partially because it's a good idea, should we try and get everyone to agree to some kind of non aggression pact? even if its not a hard "no fighting" rule, hard limits on what conflict between eldar looks like would be popular I think. lyanden may not like no longer being able to subtly threaten people for leverage, but I don't think they would dare openly oppose such a proposal if we cast it as in response to Biel-Tann's attacks.
I think we want to broadly aim for a bunch of major agreements here, in rough order of priority:
  • Don't kill each other
  • Meet up periodically to talk
  • Share webway maps
  • Collaborate on anti-Curse activities
  • Assist each other in not dying in other ways
Whether we can get even one of these, who knows. But we can probably get most people to agree to most of them in principle at least. A somewhat smaller number will be willing to act on them, but that's better than we have now.
 
Then I think we want to hold an action open, to see who bites now that we've started to inch things along.
first action of day two would be best. it shows who is particularly invested in meeting us as soon as possible, and let's us bring anything learned in that session into later ones. otherwise we should meet with Iyanden and A
It's a solid block so far, but there's more to do. I think broadly, we want to feel out the vibes of the Asuryani block as a whole and soothe some rumpled feathers, and get a private meeting with Iyanden to see if we can get them to run herd on Biel-Tan for now, so they don't fuck shit up.
I think Saim-han is planning to deliver there accusations during the moot proper and we'd be wise not to preempt them in this less they feel undermined. they want to catch their adversaries flat-footed and we'd do well not to spoil the surprise.

instead, talk about the soul stones, and the possibility of producing them or developing some manner of substitute.

I broadly agree with the reconciliation plan for the Asuryani, and we definitely want identifu the fringe elements who are
Aerellian took a calculated risk, but the problem with those is when you start with garbage numbers you get garbage calculations. After all, most of the people he was planning on bullying are minors or smalls, and "well they're not going to get best use out of it anyway" combined with, between losing any Special Things and any damage from Biel-Tan convincing them to hand it over, well, if they have something unfortunate happen after that it's not like it's Biel-tan's fault, and isn't it lucky they grabbed the Special Thing before it could be lost?

Of course, then this happens, and he has to reeeealy hope that none of the people he was trying to extort keep it to themselves (they aren't.)
I do love that we just made them a social pariah. Iyanden is going to insist on a representative on every ship bigger than a frigate and any fleet contigent with more than a handful of escorts.
Yeah, I'd only consider trading Starcrystal/Psy-Scope production secrets for a similarly priceless asset that can't be acquired for any amount of mere resources. Completed products? Maybe, but creating a new Fateforge or Crystal Farm is a large overlay in our expertise and production, and shouldn't be done for something as nebulous as a mere 'Favor'
Starcrystals are definitely something we should only consider trading to Iyanden as a "Join our faction. It's not like we are against relative Aeldari dominance, even if we aren't sold on renewed imperialism" package with the rest of our tech.

psyscope we can trade however, probably to the Asuryani major craft world. they don't have the same raw destructive potential as Starcrystals.
  • Starcrystals (+800/turn): 23,555
  • Fatebender Psy-scopes (+120/turn): 1789
and given the disparity in production, maybe even more EP intensive to create, which means they won't be fielding them as mainstay weapons anytime soon, but for a race which just lost most of it's defenses, the possibility of eventually use defense arrays based on the technology is huge. it would be a massive step towards letting bygones be bygones, and mitigate any moderate resentment on their part of us taking a political force stave to their factions face.
I say we grab Saim-Hann, Ulthwe, the exodites, the harlequins, etc. At the very least the information needs to get to Cegorach so he can safeguard it and spread the good news.
these are the people who will already be close allies post fall, and we should let the Harlequin's come to us if they want to, rather than go to them.
A Revanchist faction with no Biel-Tan, if Iyanden can pull together enough for it, would be a possible political counterweight to the Asuryani in a way we currently can't be.

Now, we don't particularly like either faction more than the other, but we've got entirely personal beef with Alaitoc who are the leadership of the Asuryani, so we'd prefer a counterweight to them exist so Alaitoc can't use their political power to put the squeeze on us.
the Asuryani are about to detonate as we blow a hole in there entire strategy, resulting in a lot of craft worlds forcing themselves to Asuryani lifestyle to drop it, and probably throw there weight behind the engineer soul stone method until we have something concrete for them.

Revanchist are about to take a major hit as well from Beil-tan's actions. if we play this smart, we might be able to convince Iyanden post moot that their best bet is to join the adaptionists and use the credit for having a part in either the soul stone engineering or whatever we come up with to leverage into a new Revanchist faction in the distant future.
A new Sloop would be best done as a torpedo boat I think, put Heavy Torpedo Launchers in the heavy battery and a decent ranged weapon, and they could do a solid shoot-and-scoot build to herd enemies into our killboxes.



I see what you're getting at, I'm just a little worried that they'll go full stick without a carrot and get Iyanden all hyper-defensive.

Asuryani and a free action I feel are absolutely required however. If we do decide to go that way, it might be wise to keep consolidating our block with the Adaptionists.
I'm thinking a fatecaster Defense array in one of the regular batteries. there primary obstacle to overcome is point defense arrays and fighters afterall. removing one of those as a major threat is a good move, and it shouldn't be expensive given the size of the ship.

we don't need to consolidate the Adaptionist block. they'll flock to us post reveal already with the ground work we've laid.

meeting with Iyanden would be wisest to wow them with our tech and exotics to nudge them into a mindset that they really want to be allied with us or figure out something they can offer us for one or more of those. it would make them more open minded to ditching Beil-Tan for inexplicably prominent and part of a swelling faction Vau-Vulkesh.

failing that, meeting with independents and figuring out what they can bring to our alliance and convincing them to join up would be better.
 
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