[q] Delay update plox!

I'm not happy with any of the plans but have a long chain of finals taking up my weekend and Monday, so I can't really contribute until then. Ciao.

I trust... Mura. Here's my proxy vote.

[x] Muramasa.
 
Firn could I ask for an extension on this vote? This could use some more discussion. I'm tied up at work and some people just aren't able to vote right now.
 
[]Anri
-[] Cute Anri down
--[] Excessively
---[] "Behold the power of this fully operational chibi factory!" , summon many Asuka Yuuri chibis to swarm her

[] Hijiri
-[] Restrain her with distracting shocky-grief, have her watch

[] If above fails to stop Anri, Gem both and swap their bodies using SCIENCE!

===

:p More seriously, I don't see anything we can really try social-wise in the next ten seconds that will work where we haven't succeeded this whole time. Some people aren't yet ready to be saved. The wishborn thing might disrupt her, but if she's offended and paranoid and /hostile/ over us finding Anri.... when we set out with the stated group purpsoe of finding Anri... then thats going to fall flat too. Really, since we were not remotely hiding our search for Anri (just hiding the new successful method with a bluff of the old failed search) , for her to get hostile at our success and act like it was a scheme suggests any prior cooperation was a trick. At best she was resigned to captivity and hoped Anri would escape "our manipulations" , but thats even worse than Hijiri demanding a peaceful life when they were the ones to initiate this.

If we did anything "social", much as I realize its doomed echo of "parent reprimanding teen" , I like the disappointment route best. We've been falling over ourselves to forgive her actions and offer everything she claims she wants, and she continues to attack us? All this talk of inviting her to Mitakihara or helping her go on vacation, we (without the excuse of timelines and Homura's justified worries / baseless fear?) haven't been nearly this lenient on Oriko and Kirika despite much better behaviour. They're still in guca-jail (if comfy house arrest) despite this being the second time they've signed up for unpaid combat danger and yet been trustworthy at our backs. I'd be honestly worried about them reacting badly at this point if we keep handling these two hostiles with kid gloves (remember, we lichbomb'd the both of them with extreme violence in their capture, if they weren't already. And now we're worried about upsetting poor Hijiri with even restraints to stop a charging-up attack?).

Express our disappointment, maybe share a bit of the Oriko comparison (have we actually even mentioned their story yet, as proof of yes we do hep our enemies? ffs) , then restrain her as best as Brina-pilot or our own paranoia requires (i favor sense-dep grief bubble spinning in three dimensions while flying away so her beam isn't a threat. She doesn't have Kirikas AoE Pulse right?) before zooming over to do likewise with Anri. I don't even entirely like the way Onmur's vote has us trying to do social on her (with squishy prisoner brought into harms way, even) mid-fight rather than save it for a controlled setting later.

Buuut, for lack of better options thus far..
[X] Onmur
 
I think I've said everything I had to say about this for now.

I'm gonna cut down my vote. Still hoping better ideas flourish. ;)

[] Disconnect from Ribbon Grid.

[] Hijiri:
-[] Disappointed: We meant everything we said. We're here to help. Ask her to give us one chance.
--[] If listening: Promise her a chance at having her own life, hobbies, friends, etc.. No creepy stalking.
-[] If hostile: Abuse Grief Control to dodge and subdue.

[] Ask Oriko if she could talk down Anri.
 
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Agree, need an extension to think about this more.

That said, I think that I had an idea.

[] Hijiri, please help me. I meant everything I said. I want this peaceful happy lives for everyone. You, Niko, the Saints, Anri. I feel that's what I was made for, sometimes, after I woke up in that alley. But I can't do it alone. All I can do is ask people to choose to help break the cycles of hatred and violence. Anri probably doesn't trust me enough to give me a chance to talk. She probably doesn't trust anyone, not any more. But it sounds like she might distrust you least, and I think that you can give me a chance. Please.

It's not right. Written from the wrong point of view, too long for the time allotted. But it feels right.
  • Hijiri's not attacking yet. She's waiting for us to attack her. That's what that question was - she's asking if the game's over. Because she feels that, now that we've found Anri, the situation is going to go hot. That's not the case.
  • We ask her to choose to help everyone have the same peaceful happy lives that she wants, and express our faith that that can happen. We acknowledge her agency and that she gets to choose how this plays out. All we can do is talk. The things that we want can't be forced.
  • I finally found the right way to say that thing that everyone's been trying to awkwardly wedge in and that just never fit right. It fits now.
  • We implicitly acknowledge and forgive her for talking to Anri.
  • Lead off with a sentence that's pretty much guaranteed to throw her off balance, which should give us the time we need to deliver the rest.
  • Major pathos play. I think that we've argued logos and a little bit of ethos, gotten her emotional by making her think and then forcing an external crisis, so now we go for the jugular.
This isn't a complete vote. We need to disengage from Mami so she can start getting ready if it doesn't work. We'll want to retreat from Anri to buy Hijiri time to work if she flips. We need to tell the Pleiades that we found Anri. We need to give Hijiri a reason to believe that Anri's problem is solvable in the first place, and summarize it well enough that she can relay it to Anri to calm her down. But it feels right.


...Also, holy shit, Anri can grow meat-bodies, her Wish gave her the power to regrow bodies for dewitched meguca so she could help us dewitch Yuuri.
 
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Vebyast's vote could work if his interpretation of Hijiri is accurate (hand on weapon, prepared and expecting /us/ to attack but not initiating) , but is likely to get us shot for nothing if he's wrong and the first bit doesn't stall her.

Onmur, the crudely shorn vote still seems to more or less keep the same ideas (if we assume putting Anri off till after Hijiri and Oriko respond), /but/ I really have concerns about losing our eyes on Anri while she is still a kilometer away. She is moving closer to us, sure , but unless she's closing in to come after us (WHY, and also How? Latter could be Hijiri landmarks maybe... seriously is there a link between them besides allies of convenience / mutual pawns?) it seems too easy to lose her when we could've dealt with her via ribbon (maybe?) and THEN had Mami stop being distracted.... or dealt with both and continued MumiHugz.
 
Agree, need an extension to think about this more.

That said, I think that I had an idea.

[] Hijiri, please help me. I meant everything I said. I want this peaceful happy lives for everyone. You, Niko, the Saints, Anri. I feel that's what I was made for, sometimes, after I woke up in that alley. But I can't do it alone. All I can do is ask people to choose to help break the cycles of hatred and violence. Anri probably doesn't trust me enough to give me a chance to talk. She probably doesn't trust anyone, not any more. But it sounds like she might distrust you least, and I think that you can give me a chance. Please.

It's not right. Written from the wrong point of view, too long for the time allotted. But it feels right.
  • Hijiri's not attacking yet. She's waiting for us to attack her. That's what that question was - she's asking if the game's over. Because she feels that, now that we've found Anri, the situation is going to go hot. That's not the case.
  • We ask her to choose to help everyone have the same peaceful happy lives that she wants, and express our faith that that can happen. We acknowledge her agency and that she gets to choose how this plays out. All we can do is talk. The that we want can't be forced.
  • I finally found the right way to say that thing that everyone's been trying to awkwardly wedge in and that just never fit right. It fits now.
  • We implicitly acknowledge and forgive her for talking to Anri.
  • Lead off with a sentence that's pretty much guaranteed to throw her off balance, which should give us the time we need to deliver the rest.
  • Major pathos play. I think that we've argued logos and a little bit of ethos, gotten her emotional by making her think and then forcing an external crisis, so now we go for the jugular.
This isn't a complete vote. We need to disengage from Mami so she can start getting ready if it doesn't work. We'll want to retreat from Anri to buy Hijiri time to work if she flips. We need to tell the Pleiades that we found Anri. We need to give Hijiri a reason to believe that Anri's problem is solvable in the first place, and summarize it well enough that she can relay it to Anri to calm her down. But it feels right.


...Also, holy shit, Anri can grow meat-bodies, her Wish gave her the power to regrow bodies for dewitched meguca so she could help us dewitch Yuuri.

I'm thinking, maybe... if 'asking for help' works, we'll probably have a moment of Hijiri's attention in which we don't need to directly jump to the heart of the matter, but not a long one. I think addressing Hijiri's chances at having her own life then... could work?

[] Disconnect from Ribbon Grid.

[] MoF: Flee from Airi, but let her catch up slowly. <- (Actually, problem. Re-starting the MoF would probably trigger Hijiri into attacking)

[] Ask Hijiri for help.
-[] If listening: She can have a peaceful life of her own. But as much as we want to, we can't just give it to her, or to Anri or the Pleiades.
--[] We don't have to fight. Nobody has to lose.
--[] Ask Hijiri to help talk down Anri. She's probably the only one who can.

[] Ask O&K to get over here ASAP for next vote.
 
[Q] Hijiri:
-[Q] That's enough. The Senate will decide her fate.
--[Q] It's over. You have the moral high ground.

[Q] Airi:
-[Q] This is where the fun begins!
--[Q] Try spinning, that's a good trick.
---[Q] Once she's capured, tell her the tragedy of Darth Akiko the Wise.
 
I think this 'ask Hijiri to help us stop Airi' thing has better chances than anything else so far.

I'm voting for this until someone writes a better version.

[X] Disconnect from Ribbon Grid.

[X] Earnest: Ask Hijiri for help.
-[X] If listening: You want everyone to live happily, but you can't do this alone.
--[X] We don't want to fight.
--[X] Ask Hijiri to help talk down Anri. She's probably the only one who can reason with her.

[X] Ask O&K to get over here ASAP.
 
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Yeah, I think the only social that has a chance to really work is Veb's suggestion there. It avoids being too patronizing, it sort-of brings up the wishborn thing in a way that might be shocking but doesn't seem too much like a lie pulled out of nowhere to manipulate her, and it makes it clear we weren't just putting on an act to bait Airi. As far as all the goals go, I can't really see anything covering all our bases better.

As far as the general lack of Anri discussion goes, I think it's likely because it seems pretty unlikely that we're going to avoid a fight with her, and a simple fight is fairly straightforward. Where it feels like there's a lack of good options with Hijiri, we have a lot of potential ways to deal with Anri in the short term. Obviously, making sure she stays quiet is hard, but the actual fight...not necessarily easy, if she has some tricks with her power, but certainly not something Sabrina needs some extraordinary new strategy for. It almost seems like something that could be left to Brinapilot, if we weren't worried about keeping her from witchbombing people.
 
Another edit, trying to frame this as an opportunity for Hijiri to do a good nobody else can do.

[] Disconnect from Ribbon Grid.

[] Hijiri: De-escalate
-[] Yes, and you're gonna go talk with her. Try to solve things peacefully.
-[] Anri probably won't listen. Ask Hijiri for help. She's probably the only one Anri will listen to.

[] Let everyone know you found Anri. Ask O&K if they could help talk her down.

Edited.
 
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-[X] Ask if she will help.
This is too pushy by far - it lays an expectation on Hijiri's behavior that she will reject without thinking about it. We need to ask for her assistance and let her actually make a decision.

[x] Short-interval update. We want to get an exchange in before Anri arrives.

[x] Simultaneously: Searching
-[x] Get Mami back to combat readiness. Hand tracking off to other sensors - grief telescope, Mami - and disengage from ribbons.
-[x] Retreat, give yourself time to talk to Hijiri.

[x] Simultaneously: Allies
-[x] You've found Yuuri. You're going to try to talk. Form a perimeter, but don't come in yet.
-[x] Do O&K think they can help social?

[x] Simultaneously: Hijiri
-[x] Set Empathybrina to attack position.
-[x] Ask her to help you talk down Anri. She's probably the only one that can.
-[x] Don't push. Don't set expectations. Hijiri has to be the one to choose the outcome here.
-[x] Every sentence must have an overwhelmingly strong hook so she lets us continue.
-[x] Explicitly deescalate early on - Hijiri need to know that it's not too late for peace.
-[x] Reaffirm your commitment to helping everyone. What she's done is no obstacle to happiness, hers or others'.
 
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It occurs to me that Sabrina being either demisexual or asexual was a foregone conclusion. For one thing, the rules and regulations here on SV means that neither Firn nor the thread are going to give any special attention to how attractive the characters may or may not be. Furthermore, given how goal-orientated SV tends to be when it needs to be, there was next to no chance that we'd want to pursue a romantic relationship with someone we weren't already emotionally invested in – we've already got 99 problems, and you want to add another one?
 
This is too pushy by far - it lays an expectation on Hijiri's behavior that she will reject without thinking about it. We need to ask for her assistance and let her actually make a decision.

[x] Short-interval update. We want to get an exchange in before Anri arrives.

[x] Simultaneously: Searching
-[x] Get Mami back to combat readiness. Hand tracking off to other sensors - grief telescope, Mami - and disengage from ribbons.
-[x] Retreat, give yourself time to talk to Hijiri.

[x] Simultaneously: Allies
-[x] You've found Yuuri. You're going to try to talk. Form a perimeter, but don't come in yet.
-[x] Do O&K think they can help social?

[x] Simultaneously: Hijiri
-[x] Set Empathybrina to attack position.
-[x] Ask her to help you talk down Anri. She's probably the only one that can.
-[x] Don't push. Don't set expectations. Hijiri has to be the one to choose the outcome here.
-[x] Every sentence must have an overwhelmingly strong hook so she lets us continue.
-[x] Explicitly deescalate early on - Hijiri need to know that it's not too late for peace.
-[x] Reaffirm your commitment to helping everyone. What she's done is no obstacle to happiness, hers or others'.
Start the Hijiri chain by explaining we're gonna try to talk things out with Anri? Solve things without a fight?
 
Start the Hijiri chain by explaining we're gonna try to talk things out with Anri? Solve things without a fight?
Hm. Yeah, you're right, it doesn't follow from what Hijiri's saying, either the explicit words or the implicit meaning ("so, jig is up, time to fight?"). So...

[x] Short-interval update. We probably need to get an exchange in before Anri arrives.

[x] Simultaneously: Searching
-[x] Get Mami back to combat readiness. Hand tracking off to other sensors - grief telescope, Mami - and disengage from ribbons.
-[x] Retreat, buy time to talk.

[x] Simultaneously: Allies
-[x] You've found Yuuri. You're going to try to talk. Form a perimeter, but don't come in yet.
-[x] Do O&K think they can help social?

[x] Simultaneously: Hijiri
-[x] You're going to try to talk to Anri.
-[x] All you want is for everyone to be able to live free and peaceful lives. Hijiri and Anri too.
-[x] Ask her to help you talk down Anri. She's probably the only person that has a chance.
-[x] Don't push. Don't set expectations. Hijiri needs to choose this for herself.
 
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Thread: "Social! We need to social harder!"

This Witch: 'Behead Hijiri with a Grief Blade while Mami strings up Airi. We'll have a chance to talk once they're restrained. Wait...we're talking now?'

I continue to be the least nice part of Sabrina. That said, I hope the Social goes well. Ugo would be proud.
 
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Highway 17 pt. 18.5
"Hijiri, help me," you say urgently. And at the same time, you pull your magic back, retracting from Mami's ribbons. "Don't. We don't have to fight. Nobody has to lose."

Mami slumps for the barest heartbeat against you, and then stiffens.

You hold Hijiri's gaze, the blazing crackle of magic inside her curling into wire-taut tension. It's activity you don't recognise, but she's preparing to use magic.

"Hijiri, please," you say. "You can have your peaceful life. But as much as I want to, I can't give it to you, or to Anri or to the Pleiades."

At the same time, your mind snaps out by telepathy. "Oriko, Kirika, get here now," you bark.

"You can't give me what I want," Hijiri says with a bitter smile - and dissolves into a blinding streak of lightning.

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=====​

Have a microupdate, per thread intent. Vote remains open.
 
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