- Location
- Illinois
Post by DschingisKhan seriously arguing for witchbombing everyone right this instant.
Would you mind elaborating on this fascinating claim?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Post by DschingisKhan seriously arguing for witchbombing everyone right this instant.
Would you mind elaborating on this fascinating claim?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I'm not sure what the exact context will be then and there. Are we doing the ribbon grid thing, in which case we'll need something or someone to keep an eye on her, because both Mami and Sabrina will be busy? Will we be out there searching, in which case we take Hijiri along and literally keep
I'm kinda leaving it to Brinapilot unless someone can think up a good line of action for it.
The intention is that she might still have some of those chronic backstabbing urges in her; I don't think we're giving any more info (unless pressing her by sharing the fact we know she couldbe behind this (Oriko's vision) would help)?
Really, I'm still waiting for people to discuss votes. My vote is barely a third/fourth iteration vote, if I can use the words that way.
Last edited:
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
- Location
- Illinois
--statement retracted, see aura's post for historical purposes--
Besides, witchbombing Mami is easy, it's just pointless and painful. The execution is two steps and two sentences.
1) Witchbomb Mami.
2) Tell her we're going to fix it and hug her.
And then we (relatively needlessly) spend an evening crying with her.
Last edited:
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Kaizuki I was fucking in it. It was a private conversation on SV and not public record.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Kazumi: *Looks at Sabrina*What?
Why?
That's awful!
[]Hug Mami tight and don't let go
Kazumi: *Hugs Niko tighter*
Sabrina: "..." *Hugs Mami tighter*
Kazumi: *Hugs Niko even tighter*
Sabrina: *Squeezes Mami into a super hug*
Kazumi: *SRS FACE ON GIVES NIKO THE TIGHTEST EMBRACE EVER*
Sabrina: *SMIRKS AND HUGS THE MAMI WHILE CHANNELING MAGIC THROUGH HER RIBBONS*
KAZUMI: *STARTS SPAWNING CHIBIS FOR EXTRA HUGGING POWER*
SABRINA: *KISSES MAMI*
KAZUMI: "PLEIADES! JOINT KISSING ON NIKO, NOW!"
Niko: *Passes out*
...
Kazumi: *Smug* "I do believe I've won."
Mirai: "It was a competition?"
Sabrina: *Shrugs and hugs Mami more*
Hijiri: *Carefully and silently closes the door on her way out while slipping the Memory Device back into her belt*
- Location
- Illinois
Must have been before my time then. I retract all objections.
- Location
- Most likely California
Well, that's embarrassing. Ah, well, its not like it matters since we finally got a proper bandwagon moving.Oh, and it's Raiseth, thank you very much
[Z}Inmur
[S\Oniur
[X]Onmur
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
*Points at sig*
OmNomNom is the proper mispelling (amongst few others).
- Location
- Auf dem Tisch
Sigh. Usually I know better than to make unbounded positive assertions like that. I've just been reminded of why. orz
Okay, I stand corrected.
(This cabal was actually playing in good faith? Not just trying to troll their way to a Bad End?)
I might be inclined to elaborate further and address specific questions or concerns if you bother to read and understand the linked post (and accompanying discussion) yourself, first. Until then, yes, I do mind your absurd reduction.
Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
...I think maybe you should elaborate instead of implying 'obviously because you disagree with me you clearly didn't read hard enough and don't actually understand what I'm saying'.
Because as it is, you're just being passive aggressive and insulting.
Don't do that.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Those types of opinions are about half good faith, half trolling, and half "Happiness is boring, everyone needs to suffer more.". Total sums to greater than one because the "moar suffering" crowd is about 70-30 people that legitimately think PMAS should be torture porn and people that just want to ruin everything for everyone.
You are advocating that everyone needs to be witchbombed. I disagree. I think that you are dramatically overestimating people's abilities to handle the witchbomb. I think that you are failing to consider the worst case of witchbombing random girls, which is the standard which we must be able to handle. I think that you are not understanding how much even a successful witchbomb defense would impair someone in their ability to help other people through the witchbomb and therefore overestimate our ability to scale this system. I think that you underestimate the rate at which we will be gaining new people to witchbomb relative to our ability to help girls through the witchbomb. I think that you underestimate our ability to suppress information. I think that you do not understand how communities think and how it affects the idea of witchbombing everyone. I think that witchbombing everyone is unnecessary once mass-dewitching is under way. I think, based on observations of other people in this thread and other PMMM quest threads, that the allure of mass infohazard reveals is itself a cognitive hazard and that most people are not able to plan them without hitting a slippery slope that leads them to flirt with immediate, personal bad ends. I think that PMAS will end and potentially move on to a sequel before we can even think about mass infohazard reveals. I think that such ideas require extremely careful handling to avoid shitstorms in the thread that polarize opinions and damage both the idea's credibility and arguments and everyone else's ability to maintain rational debate.
It would be a reasonable plan for a Culture Mind. I do not believe that humans could pull it off.
Last edited:
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
So. I'm not sure how I came by this idea, aside from possible brain damage, but it's too crazy to pass up.
Be aware that this is the first actual omake written by yours truly.
Feel honored, yo.
If you guessed who the second ( wildly OOC, as is intended, because I like pretending that copyright infringement in a fanfic could be a thing, don't mind me and my cuirous delusions ) person is, have a cookie!
( sadly, not a real cookie. To be fair, it's not that hard to guess )
Be aware that this is the first actual omake written by yours truly.
"You are telling me," he says, not actually looking at you, instead choosing to stare intently at the notebook lying on his deck. "That you are, in your words, a magical girl from another universe, having arrived to mine after a freak accident during the fight with what you call a Witch. Is that correct?"
"Yes?" You venture.
"Furthermore," he drones, uncharacteristically enough to make you wonder whether you've gotten the right person, despite the distinct features you know he possesses. "You know who I am, what I'm doing, believe it completely, without question, and require my help."
You take a pause before answering, looking him over once again. Well, perhaps he's not the one you had in mind, considering the potentially infinite number of universes. You do remember something about mirrors, but it seems that whoever stuffed your head full of trivia on this particular person hadn't deemed it necessary to provide information past a certain point in time. A shame, really, the stuff is fascinating.
Even if he's not the titular variant, he must be close enough or you wouldn't know so much about him in the first place, you decide finally.
"Well, I might know about a version of you," You answer. "He might be not you exactly, but you might be closely located in the multiverse, whatever that means. I mean," you continue, looking at him squarely. "If you've already had an investigation this week, you should've been beaten up more."
He barks out a sudden laugh:
"Yeah, that sounds like me, alright. You can say I've had a lucky week." He finally answers your gaze with his, weary eyes concealing unimaginable strength not quite meeting yours. "Let's say I believe you. What makes you think that I can help you with," He wiggles his hand slightly, "Whatever this is? You should know that my specialty is more in the area of finding stuff out and blowing stuff up."
"I was hoping you could direct me to a dimensionalist expert," You answer readily enough. "I mean, someone should know the theory. It's evidently possible to travel between universes. In fact," You add, as if an afterthought, "I know that you have travelled once in such a manner. Will have travelled. My knowledge is weird."
You shift worriedly.
"Is this before or after Chichen Itza?"
He sucks in a breath:
"After. Fine. I believe you."
"Will you help me then? The money is not a problem, as weird as it sounds, I came in loaded with some yakuza gold, so..."
He raises his hand, stopping you in your tracks:
"We'll speak about that later. For now," He blurts out suddenly, "Can we please stop talking like we're inside a mix of a badly written noir novel and a Sherlock Holmes detective?"
"Oh God, yes." You answer. You thought he'd never ask. To be honest, it was starting to creep you out a little. "So we can go over details after lunch? I'm hungry."
He smiles at that.
"You thinking what I'm thinking?"
"The King?"
"The King. Nice longcoat, by the way."
"Yes?" You venture.
"Furthermore," he drones, uncharacteristically enough to make you wonder whether you've gotten the right person, despite the distinct features you know he possesses. "You know who I am, what I'm doing, believe it completely, without question, and require my help."
You take a pause before answering, looking him over once again. Well, perhaps he's not the one you had in mind, considering the potentially infinite number of universes. You do remember something about mirrors, but it seems that whoever stuffed your head full of trivia on this particular person hadn't deemed it necessary to provide information past a certain point in time. A shame, really, the stuff is fascinating.
Even if he's not the titular variant, he must be close enough or you wouldn't know so much about him in the first place, you decide finally.
"Well, I might know about a version of you," You answer. "He might be not you exactly, but you might be closely located in the multiverse, whatever that means. I mean," you continue, looking at him squarely. "If you've already had an investigation this week, you should've been beaten up more."
He barks out a sudden laugh:
"Yeah, that sounds like me, alright. You can say I've had a lucky week." He finally answers your gaze with his, weary eyes concealing unimaginable strength not quite meeting yours. "Let's say I believe you. What makes you think that I can help you with," He wiggles his hand slightly, "Whatever this is? You should know that my specialty is more in the area of finding stuff out and blowing stuff up."
"I was hoping you could direct me to a dimensionalist expert," You answer readily enough. "I mean, someone should know the theory. It's evidently possible to travel between universes. In fact," You add, as if an afterthought, "I know that you have travelled once in such a manner. Will have travelled. My knowledge is weird."
You shift worriedly.
"Is this before or after Chichen Itza?"
He sucks in a breath:
"After. Fine. I believe you."
"Will you help me then? The money is not a problem, as weird as it sounds, I came in loaded with some yakuza gold, so..."
He raises his hand, stopping you in your tracks:
"We'll speak about that later. For now," He blurts out suddenly, "Can we please stop talking like we're inside a mix of a badly written noir novel and a Sherlock Holmes detective?"
"Oh God, yes." You answer. You thought he'd never ask. To be honest, it was starting to creep you out a little. "So we can go over details after lunch? I'm hungry."
He smiles at that.
"You thinking what I'm thinking?"
"The King?"
"The King. Nice longcoat, by the way."
If you guessed who the second ( wildly OOC, as is intended, because I like pretending that copyright infringement in a fanfic could be a thing, don't mind me and my cuirous delusions ) person is, have a cookie!
( sadly, not a real cookie. To be fair, it's not that hard to guess
)
Last edited:
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Eh. Pretty mediocre as Dresden fiction goes.
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
I should start out sometime, right?
But hey, thanks for reading it.
I was just having trouble falling asleep and the thread is going "We didn't start the fire, it's been always burnin'" full time.
So instead, I've made myself busy with something ( arguably ) constructive.
And now I can go to sleep. Oh, and OOC is, again, fully intentional. I don't have enough confidence to write an IC resembling Dresden. IC Dresden is awesome.
So I haven't even tried.
Last edited:
- Location
- Most likely California
Eh, Not Bad for a first time. Just add a few lines between sentences, and its perfectly readable.
Come to think of it, I still need to finish reading the Dresden Files some day. Started out about a year ago, but then got distracted with schoolwork, and never got back to it.
- Location
- Illinois
"Some gucas know the witchbomb, so we should witchbomb everyone to inoculate them. I think we should make sure every girl coming into the city (read that, that is present tense, and interestingly the Shiogama girls are coming into Mitakihara within the next couple of hours IC) is witchbombed."
"Meguca will carelessly drop the witchbomb and not immediately recognize that they have fucked up when the reaction is stunned silence followed by tears and despair; nor will they make any effort to contact anyone or render any sort of aid, despite the fact that any person who would perform such actions is someone we would try to screen for gemming before allowing them anywhere near Mitakihara."
Yeah, I can think of a less dangerous approach, not witchbombing people. That way they can't spread it to people they know who don't happen to be in the same city as Sabrina. Your argument appears to have a hole the size of France in it.
I was considering that. I think even if you're not going to tell everyone, it's probably still possible to ask about it in such a way that you'll get most of the Informed while keeping the Innocent generally oblivious beyond the general idea that we're soliciting information help figure out how to better protect civilians from Witch presence (though it feels Kyubey-grade skeevy when I put it like that...).
Hm, kind of a chicken-and-egg problem, finding and coordinating... Community Wellness Ambassadors(?) without having a clear idea of who's suitable and trustworthy. Aside from getting Oriko back in the game, I wonder what abilities we have available to assist with the vetting process?
Yeah, there's a middle ground that we'll want to find. It'll probably be related to the ratio of girls who know and don't know. I'm somewhat thinking that some kind of mentorship/buddy system (call them Soeurs, natch!
This is a really good point, thank you.
[jk] Mind-altering drugs are the answer; set up an opium den.
...well, probably a joke.
Ah right, while I'm thinking about it,
[X] Torgamous
I think it'll help reinforce Mami, and that's Important.
Buddy system is not a bad idea but hey that's not what we're talking about here!
You argued for it only a couple of months ago, in September.
And this time, don't broadly dismiss me as your sole method of defending yourself! I really don't appreciate it.
Last edited:
- Location
- Auf dem Tisch
You don't appreciate it? What makes you think I do? I dismissed you because you (deliberately, I felt) dramatically mischaracterised both the tenor and content of my position, which is largely focused on preventing a disaster that is inevitable as we scale unless we take action to mitigate it. This follow up does unfortunately little to change that opinion."Some gucas know the witchbomb, so we should witchbomb everyone to inoculate them. I think we should make sure every girl coming into the city (read that, that is present tense, and interestingly the Shiogama girls are coming into Mitakihara within the next couple of hours IC) is witchbombed."
"Meguca will carelessly drop the witchbomb and not immediately recognize that they have fucked up when the reaction is stunned silence followed by tears and despair; nor will they make any effort to contact anyone or render any sort of aid, despite the fact that any person who would perform such actions is someone we would try to screen for gemming before allowing them anywhere near Mitakihara."
Yeah, I can think of a less dangerous approach, not witchbombing people. That way they can't spread it to people they know who don't happen to be in the same city as Sabrina. Your argument appears to have a hole the size of France in it.
Buddy system is not a bad idea but hey that's not what we're talking about here!
You argued for it only a couple of months ago, in September.
And this time, don't broadly dismiss me as your sole method of defending yourself! I really don't appreciate it.
Like your fixation on the present tense bits misses the point entirely. I acknowledged (both implicitly, in the very paragraph you're trying to summarise, and later explicitly) that there's a gap between current and desired capabilities to handle this problem. As much as I wish we had the resources on-hand to deal with this, we don't. We won't for a while, in truth. I've since learned the scope of the game is (probably) a shorter span of time than we'll need to get even a rudimentary system in place (barring some minor miracles). That doesn't absolve us of responsibility to plan for it (getting Mrs. Shizuki involved is a strong possible trailhead for advancing our position here).
Following that, you focus on the one vector of infection I set aside (because I too presumed screening infrastructure against such an obvious threat) instead of the non-exhaustive list of other examples I came up with off the top of my head which, in aggregate, are much more likely.
The problem of people telling others outside the city is on-point, and you're right that I didn't address that directly. But a) I thought by this point we were clear on the unique virulence of a memetic threat anyway and b) according to your own position, no one who would do that will be allowed in. Realistically, it'll probably still happen because people make mistakes. It's another DR scenario to plan for.
The buddy system isn't... what? How is that not part of this? Mitigation strategies are directly related because your criticism from the start was that I'm advocating "immediately Witchbomb everyone right now". Mitigation will, in fact, necessarily end up as the cornerstone of a successful plan. To date, the origin of Witches isn't broadly known because the meguca culture of secrecy and geographical isolation (in both the physical and mental sense, thanks Incubator) creates natural barriers to its spread. Removing that (by gathering a community into close proximity) without something equivalently effective is Just Asking For It. I'd like to think we learned something from the industrial revolution. And modern medicine can come too: I believe it's fairly well-understood at this point that prevention is much preferable to needing the cure at all. Becoming a witch is literally soul-rending trauma, so while reversing the process is definitely something that we want to do post-haste, I feel quite strongly that we fixate on it too much and consequently are neglecting other equally (or arguably more) important tasks. Just because you cured the disease doesn't mean you get the same person out on the other side; better to have never caught it in the first place.
So no, I was not "seriously arguing for
witchbombing everyone right this instant" and I don't understand how you still believe that after writing this post. I'm sincerely not sure how you came to that conclusion in the first place.
Conversely:
These are all good points worth discussing and things upon which I think reasonable people can disagree (if you want me to respond in-depth, please say so). Broadly, though, at our current scale (<10 girls), I do agree we're probably fine. Add two orders of magnitude, though? Pushing it. Three orders? We're in the danger zone.
The biggest unknown right now with our current trajectory is whether we'll be able to reverse the Witch process before we reach a critical mass. (Additionally, I remain unconvinced that we'll be able to take girls who've been reverted off of suicide watch for a while; that sort of trauma changes people.)
Apologies, folks, I'm rather too tired to update today.
@DschingisKhan @Kaizuki
A pre-emptive: Be nice. You can disagree without making it personal.
Both? Both.
@DschingisKhan @Kaizuki
A pre-emptive: Be nice. You can disagree without making it personal.
That's a rather interesting combination of facial expressions to imagine.
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
Girls in Asruano are very expressive... Until they don't want to be.
- Location
- Illinois
See, this is the fundamental problem with your position, and the fundamental problem with arguing for witchbombing anyone. It is, indeed, a fundamental problem with most pro-witchbomb positions, and it is perhaps the root of why all rational actors who have recognized its existence vehemently argue against witchbombing people.
There is no "inevitable disaster" inside Mitakihara -- inside our sphere of influence, even -- at any point.
There are two effects of the witchbomb -- let's call them strong and weak. The strong effect of the witchbomb is "I/My friends are going to turn into witches!" The weak effect is "Oh dear lord, grief seeds are people."
The strong effect is negated by the existence of Sabrina and clear seeds. Nobody who doesn't want to witch is in any danger of doing so provided they perform a basic action regularly. This will likely be enough to prevent witchbomb-based despair in the majority of cases.
The weak effect is negated by explaining more about what we are doing to people affected by a witchbomb, in particular, that clear seeds are quiescent (and that this is a temporary state of affairs as we research artificial cleansing). A basic monitoring effort should be sufficient for us to learn when and where we need to do this.
There is an inevitable disaster outside our sphere of influence if the witchbomb gets around, for all the usual reasons.
Do you see that your previous arguments are based on a fundamentally fallacious premise? Because they are. Just like the arguments of the other 200 people that have come through here saying the same identical stuff, because as much as you ridicule the idea that that is the case, it is the case that we semi-regularly get people in here arguing for witchbombing everyone.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Three effects. The crushing effect is the reinforcement of the Lichbomb effect that hit Mami so hard. It is the same effect that will hit Kazumi.
"I doomed so many girls to become witches!"