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Oh look, another moderator. How wonderful. There's totally not any power-imbalance here and I'm just engaging with a regular-joe user. I'm sorry, you're just not, however much you might try.
I'm sorry if you perceive a power imbalance, while it is true that I could act on something silly like a little internet argument (why would i though, arguments are fun) this would be a super-cool step on the rollercoaster of "and then manus was fired because he acted like a fucking idiot lol". Sufficient Velocity generally doesn't tolerate power abuse in that line, but you do have valid concerns, and I am not one to tell you that a little skepticism of authority is bad or unhealthy, so I apologize for any misunderstandings caused and hope that we can treat this as any other internet argument. That is to say, a mutual pact of flaming the other person and using questionable terminology until the other person quits the site in a rage for a month because Someone Was Wrong On The Internet. :V

To clarify, I'm not mocking @Stormwhite, merely laughing at the idea that all fiction is political.
As for the ironic part, I'll refer you to the previous part of my post.
I understand your argument, but when you use terminology like "you people crack me up", it's hard not to come off as mocking, even if that was not your stated intents with your post. I apologize for insinuating so, but I can only react to what I perceive, and I think it's hard for a lot of people (me included, of course) to discern tone over the internet like so. I think using the term 'political' was a mistake, and as a communication scientist I must criticize @Stormwhite for using it; more relevant is the term 'personal' instead. To some degree, unless the author makes a concentrated effort to not insert his or her ideas in a work of fiction, their conceptualization of the world will influence what they write, that's okay; what I believe is influencing what I am writing right now, we all operate on the assumption that we are right or at least have a central point that is worth listening to. This is good, if we didn't, we'd either be depressed or insecure; possibly both.

But it's also one of the things that makes writing hard, because of how it can come off to readers; to some degree there is a level of reading into the text of course - we read with our own biases and are likely to catch subtext that was unintended due to our beliefs - but the author's ideas also influence this.

Now, I don't think this update is bad, nor do I think there was any such subtext here, certainly not as intended by the author, nor is it something I am reading into it.

But I think it's important to consider.

That said, I will withdraw from this discussion; assume that your next post beats up my argument really hard and gets like thirty likes or something, because I feel that making a post in this thread was a mistake, when the proper action would have been to let it run it's course or like make a meme reply to @Stormwhite because 50% of her post is stolen from my lessons on the narrative paradigm of communication.
 
[eepy only just realized mod-related stuff is going on; removing lighthearted responsepost to most recent threadmark until I know what is happening]
 
[x] Yes.

I was considering posting an edited version of the "Kiss The Girl" song that replaced kiss with fight but it is rather long so I will instead simply leave it to your imagination.
 

Rape culture isn't necessarily malicious. That you seem to be thinking of it as some sort of overt thing, rather than endemic parts of the social contract and societal attitudes, is vaguely worrying, I'll admit, but the way you presented it isn't necessarily wrong.

My issues with this particular vote stem from the idea that promoting this sort of behaviour and 'rewarding' it by giving a 'yes', feeds into the idea that it's acceptable to pressure girls into romantic commitments, which I am absolutely and vehemently opposed to.

No shit, that's why I quoted the specific part and told you it "cracked me up." I vehemently disagree with you and view it as a tactic used by some people in order to gain power and control over an arena that can be both political and non-political. No-one will deny that fiction can be political or that most pieces sometimes take political stances at some point in their story, however unintentional, but describing all fiction as political is laughable, at least to me.

That's an incredibly interesting argument you've made there. Except you haven't, you've just made a positive declaration without any supporting arguments for that stance. By all means, if you wish to talk about how fiction can be completely apolitical, do so. I'm very interested to hear your insights.
 
*comes back from dinner*
... This thing is still going on? That's just great.

Anywho, I said Yes because based on the QM's posts any cons to saying yes is mitigated and little while the pros are bigger, Saying no doesn't really OFFER anything, only embarrasses a boy and soar the mood
My issues with this particular vote stem from the idea that promoting this sort of behaviour and 'rewarding' it by giving a 'yes', feeds into the idea that it's acceptable to pressure girls into romantic commitments, which I am absolutely and vehemently opposed to.
...And how does that apply here?
Hes not pressuring us at all
 
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@PoptartProdigy - from my stance, you haven't voiced any problematic issues in the stort. One dumb kid did something really dumb. Yes, his behavior has some elements of rape culture, but no one is showing approval. As a matter of fact, the reaction has largely been negative in story. That's good.

A lot of the external discussion, on the other hand, shows clear flavors of mentioned rape culture which is worth addressing for reasons well laid out by storm on how fiction and reality intersect.
What I am reading is that you acknowledge that you were off topic. Then state your determination to remain off topic.
 
Leave it. I'll listen until I'm aware what the problem is. Kat is trying to articulate that there's a problem I've overlooked. I will listen until I understand before I decide whether or not to step on it.
There is nothing, seeing as this is a type of debate in written form, you can literally go back and see the entire debacle from start to finish and witness all of the nothing that the "you are rape culture" spawned from, there isn't even a misinterpretation so much as a blatant mischaracterization of the procedings.


Everything is political.

That's going too far. Everything that involves humans interacting with each other is political. Because everyone has ideas on how things are and how they should be, and those ideas cannot help but to color interaction.
In that case nothing is political, because the word has no meaning as it describes nothing.
 
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From what's been shown in Dragon Ball Super, anyone who has achieved the state of n-thought in battle called Ultra Instinct always has grey eyes. The angels are all confirmed UI users, and Goku's UI state also has grey eyes.
They call it Ultra Instinct in the dub? They call it Doctrina Egoista (Egotist Doctrine) in the Spanish sub
 
How massive are Bulma's skills that she can regularly beat people with 5x times her power level? Many of the people she fought would have been fairly skilled themselves.

Given that she's apparently a sixteen times Cap circuit winner, a legend one might say, I'm betting at least one legendary skill.

I'm aware of that but you must realize that the little red box creates a power imbalance in this situation. You're not a regular user, even if you aren't using your moderator priviliges/powers right now.
Oh look, another moderator. How wonderful. There's totally not any power-imbalance here and I'm just engaging with a regular-joe user. I'm sorry, you're just not, however much you might try.

Mods aren't allowed to moderate threads they are in. Sure, there is an imbalance of power.

You know who it favors? @PoptartProdigy, the quests QM. @veekie, the guy in almost literally every quest. Prominent members of the quest community like @Simon_Jester, @Aranfan, and, if it's not too arrogant to say, myself. (not an exhaustive list)

'outsider mod who hasn't even read the thread' has far, far less social power than 'prominent name heavily participating in the quest'.

[eepy only just realized mod-related stuff is going on; removing lighthearted responsepost to most recent threadmark until I know what is happening]

Don't worry, it's just mods in the capacity of regular users, not in the capacity of mods.
 
Everything is political.

That's going too far. Everything that involves humans interacting with each other is political. Because everyone has ideas on how things are and how they should be, and those ideas cannot help but to color interaction.
The statement is utterly meaningless unless you define what you mean by "political" and no meaningful discussion can be had until you do so. That's not an encouragement for you to do so and begin a long discussion about politics in fiction in a fucking Dragon Ball Quest(no offense, Poptart), I'd really rather this was just dropped.

That said, I will withdraw from this discussion; assume that your next post beats up my argument really hard and gets like thirty likes or something, because I feel that making a post in this thread was a mistake, when the proper action would have been to let it run it's course or like make a meme reply to @Stormwhite because 50% of her post is stolen from my lessons on the narrative paradigm of communication.
Well now I can't even be annoyed with you!
That's an incredibly interesting argument you've made there. Except you haven't, you've just made a positive declaration without any supporting arguments for that stance. By all means, if you wish to talk about how fiction can be completely apolitical, do so. I'm very interested to hear your insights.
I can't really argue with you until you define the key concepts in your post which you failed to do. Like what you actually mean when you say "political" because I fail to see how something like Little Red Riding Hood is political.


EDIT: @PoptartProdigy, is this alright?
 
He kinda is? He asked to dance with us as a reward for winning the tournament. In public. After our father made a big production about granting him a boon.

That counts as social pressure to me.
Well no more than literally anything else in life, and due to the circumstances is less than many will face in RL. Even then if we say no, Nothing happens, if we say Yes, we save the Kid's face and a potential Husbando or just a friend.
That's disregarding Kakara's status as the PC, which means she technically has less than zero pressure.
Though Personally this doesn't seem to be that big a pressure, since our PC has the Charisma not to even give a shit about this level of "pressure"
 
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From ringside:

Amaya slides into a forward stance, clearly intending to end this quickly. "Are you serious? Why are all of the children coming out for this? If I was in the room with Lord Berra decided this..."
Mitsuba:
[starts giggling uncontrollably]

Tabe puts his fingers to his head. "How about- Makankosappo!"

Amaya lunges to the side, but not quickly enough to avoid a singe along his arm. A heartbeat later, Tabe changes tactics and rushes him, landing a heavy blow to the injured limb.
Mitsuba:

"WOO YOU GO KID!"

The crowd begins to cheer, and you hear Miss Fren saying, "A spectacular finish! Where have all of these talented newcomers been hiding?"
Mitsuba:

"...Admittedly, in a lot of cases, in their cradles, seems like."

"Bulma Kane is one of the greatest competitors ever to grace the ring," says Miss Fren, her voice somewhat hushed from her usual level of bombast. "I've announced her as the winner of the Cap Circuit eight times. Announcers before me have announced her another eight. At ninety years old, many thought she wouldn't be showing up today at all. And yet we've seen her in the preliminary rounds. We've seen her in the midterms. And we're seeing her today, in the last semi-final match to determine the final pair for our final fight."
Mitsuba, some time earlier:

"Ohmigods she's coming?"

Bulma nods at Cynthia's feet. "Your weight is a little too far forward. It's very apparent that you're going to be charging as your first move."

Cynthia stares for a moment.

Then she fires a blast.

Bulma-

You blink.

You hardly saw her move.

The ancient saiyan leans by the slightest of fractions to the side, and the blast bounces off of the arena wards. "Better, but you're still giving me tells. You're thinking too much. Your body knows what to do. Let it act." She begins stepping forward. Cynthia slowly closes in as well.
Mitsuba to Cynthia, Rather Later:

"It's okay, she does that to everybody. I think she's got some kind of secret Grandma Saiyan transformation nobody else has that lets her do it."

Cynthia's fingers come up to her head-

vip

-and she promptly goes head-over-heels as Bulma smoothly adapts to her opponent's sudden presence, catching Cynthia's punching and tugging, other hand coming-

skreeeeee

A blast finally issues forth from the tournament competitor's hands, adding to Cynthia's already-substantial momentum and sending her tumbling.
Mitsuba:

"Okay, I KNOW how that one's done, I just wish I could do it myself more often grrr."

"Patience," says Bulma. "It's a long lesson."

Cynthia nods, a serious look on her face, and moves in.

Bulma is magnificent. The more you watch, the clearer it is -- her strength has deserted her in old age. She's barely at one hundred thousand, let alone the permitted five. And she's still holding her own.

Cynthia advances more cautiously than her previous attempts, abandoning her blitzing strategy. She stays just out of reach, firing blasts from close range, where they -- surely -- cannot miss.

Yet miss, they do. Bulma is simply never there when Cynthia fires her blast, leaning to this side or the other. You've seen her earlier in the tournament, of course, but she has never performed like this. In every other match it was over before you could finish blinking, her opponent careening out of the wards before they could finish setting up.
Mitsuba:

"Told you. Grandma Saiyan transformation."

[folds arms, smiles smugly]

-and Bulma spins away as Cynthia releases an area burst. Bulma regains control just shy of the wards, a hand's breadth away from impacting-

vip

-before Cynthia transmits in behind the elder woman, fingers to her forehead and one arm raised.

SKREEEEEE

It's actually a relatively gentle blast -- a great wave that exerts more pressure than it does damage. And it pushes Bulma just barely through the wards.
Mitsuba:

"Okaaaay, good momentum, good trickiness. Tricky is good."

"Grumble grumble."

HOW THE FUCK
"TABE STAUBER AND CYNTHIA BALOR!"
Mitsuba:

"It's okay, mysterious and strangely named supernatural creature, we know how you feel."

Tabe immediately springs forward, firing a hailstorm of blasts at Cynthia. She retreats, but slower than he's advancing. Just as he approaches to melee range, her hands come together, framing her sternum. "LIGHT GRENADE!"
Mitsuba:

"Oooh, that is a tough one; the Light Grenade is not a natural for charging on the move. Nice."

Cynthia rolls her eyes and snaps her fingers. Tabe flinches and refocuses on her.

"Keep your head in the game, Tabe," she says, raising an eyebrow.

A moment later, a brilliant flush spreads across his face, and he rears back. "MASENKO- ah!"

As he raises his arms, Cynthia's fingers flash to her forehead and-

vip

-she appears at his side, blasting him away before he can complete the blast and then raising her arm over her head. "Kienzan!"
Mitsuba:

"And yeah, I honestly think it's like a rule that the older you are, the better you are at predicting those damn teleporters. Doesn't seem to be any way around it. Eh well."

You see him gritting his teeth, head bowed against the pressure of the wave even as his shirt turns to dust and the rest of his clothing starts tearing apart.

He takes a step forward.

Cynthia frowns in consternation and focuses, putting a little more oomph into the blast.

Tabe takes a step forward.

She narrows her eyes and focuses it down into a single, dense line, enough to put enough force into a narrow enough area that it'll surely take him off his feet. And it does.

And as he comes off his feet, he engages his flight and floats up, just clear of the now-narrow beam.

Cynthia's eyes widen.
Cynthia Willpower Push, DC 70: Fail
Tabe's head snaps up, and with a roar, he charges. It happens in slow motion, to you. Tabe rapidly closes to melee range. The beam cuts off at Cynthia's hands with impressive speed, and she begins to bring her arms up.
Mitsuba:

"Sometimes, you're the upset. Sometimes, it goes according to plan. Sometimes, you just get wait he did what how did he do that-ed."

[nods sympathetically]

"Name one thing," says Dad. "One thing I can do for you, as thanks for the performance, and recognition of the spectacular level of talent you've shown today. I am impressed. We are impressed."
Mitsuba:

"Ohmigods did he just- YAAAAAY!"

[Gokun Mitsuba iz royalist Gokun]

"Lord Berra-" Tabe grimaces, shaking his head. After a moment of hesitation, he goes to one knee. "Lord Goku. I- I wasn't expecting..." He takes a steadying breath and falls into a more formal tone of speech that a Gokun like him probably thinks sounds like Vegetan formality, even if it's not any particular protocol. "If it's acceptable, my Lord, for my favor, I would like to request the honor of a fight with the Lady Scion."

Dead silence falls in the ring. Tabe lifts his head slightly -- staring at your feet, but not quite daring to look you in the eye.

"Full power," he says, face bright red.
Mitsuba:

"D'awwww!"

[and if anyone wants to crank at me about this, well frankly... that is what Mitsuba thinks. I can explain why if you like, but I'd rather keep it spoilered to avoid dramatic shrieking multisided verbal brawls]
 
[X] Yes.

It's unfortunate this happened, but frankly the power imbalance is so far in our favour I'm not getting any "Patriarchy!!" Vibes.

The kid screwed up and put us in an awkward position by accident - let's not ruin his day of triumph over a fight that, by WOG, only has romantic connotations if we want it to.
 
I can't really argue with you until you define the key concepts in your post which you failed to do. Like what you actually mean when you say "political" because I fail to see how something like Little Red Riding Hood is political.
Uh. Little red riding hood is a thinly veiled story of 'little girl gets raped' (or avoids it because the lumberjack saves her. There's a few versions, of course). Like, the very name is euphemistic (for female genitalia...), the wolf is an archetypical symbol for a male predator, impersonating a trusted figure, in a bed.

I... Don't see how you can find this apolitical. It clearly takes a stance on predatory behavior, a tightly woven narrative about sexual politics.

There are examples I could understand. This isn't one.
 
Rape culture isn't necessarily malicious. That you seem to be thinking of it as some sort of overt thing, rather than endemic parts of the social contract and societal attitudes, is vaguely worrying, I'll admit, but the way you presented it isn't necessarily wrong.

My issues with this particular vote stem from the idea that promoting this sort of behaviour and 'rewarding' it by giving a 'yes', feeds into the idea that it's acceptable to pressure girls into romantic commitments, which I am absolutely and vehemently opposed to.
Okay, that is good to hear, but ultimately more off to the side of the point I am making than square-on. I am echoing the language used by others in order to more closely respond to their points, not utilizing it to exact accuracy. With tensions this high, I see little point in arguing semantics.

Furthermore: Stormwhite, I respect the point you are making. I respect it enough to ignore what I am genuinely certain is an accidental implication that I would support that kind of pressure, which I would otherwise find supremely offensive. However, this is not a debate thread on social pressure and the acceptability thereof. This is a quest, a teenage boy did something very dumb which he very much regrets, and the on-topic debate to be having is whether or not Kakara decides it's dumb enough to be worthy of a, "No," (or, indeed, whether or not she simply is uninterested in the prospect) or if his earnestness is sufficient to forgive the slip by saying, "Yes" (or indeed if Kakara the character doesn't actually care about the pressure for whatever reason). This is a debate that undoubtedly touches upon the matter of peer pressure, and I welcome discussion of that topic in the context of the central point of debate, but you have not addressed the central point of debate.

Again, I am thrilled to have you here. I simply request that while you are here, you at least participate in the quest itself.
 
We should use Multiform for this fight. Multiform is not really good for combat, but he wants us to go full power so we need to do something to even things up a bit.

Honestly, with him asking us to go full power we're are left in the uncomfortable position of ending it quickly or picking on him.

-and her response to the romantic overture is... gratuitous triplets. Surely the shirtless teenage boy and rapt audience won't read anything into that.
 
*Sees mod quoting the GM*
*Sees mod taking a stance against what the GM posted*
*Remembers last time this was seen*
*Keeps seeing new color names at bottom of page*

Well, fingers crossed we don't get a thread lock for a (different) mod to come in.


Actually, do mods always thread lock when they review, or only of they feel the need to?
 
Uh. Little red riding hood is a thinly veiled story of 'little girl gets raped' (or avoids it because the lumberjack saves her. There's a few versions, of course). Like, the very name is euphemistic (for female genitalia...), the wolf is an archetypical symbol for a male predator, impersonating a trusted figure, in a bed.

I... Don't see how you can find this apolitical. It clearly takes a stance on predatory behavior, a tightly woven narrative about sexual politics.

There are examples I could understand. This isn't one.
I'm sorry, sexual politics? Is that some American concept we European poli-scis don't learn about?

Fucking. Define. Your. Concepts.

Nothing you've said there has in any way convinced me that the story is political in nature or that it has a political message. The main message in the story is "Girl, watch the fuck out for strange men because they might eat/rape you!" which is personal advice. There's nothing inherently political about it, at least to me.
 
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