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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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SaltyWaffles said:
Sabrina is not UKG. Feathers is Dedolere, Sabrina's Witch, somehow fucking with us--either from the hypothetical future in which she has hatched, or by virtue of being a complete cheating bastard and outright existing before she actually should be able to.

Sabrina was created by Madoka's Wish in the last loop. What Sabrina was created from is uncertain. Could be Walpurgisnacht, could be something else. Hell, she could even have just been created spontaneously out of thin air. The really confusing part is, of course, why Sabrina was dying before she contracted.
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I dunno if you missed it, but they were referring to a theory derived from a PMAS Discord convo:
The Phoenixian said:
Incidentally, if any of you are wondering what inspired Krekian's artwork, there's a couple conversation from the discord you might want to read to get the joke.

The first one is here.

And the later expansion on it here. Which is mostly only separate since we moved it to another channel.

Mostly just some shitposting that got a little out of hand. But hey, it's all good fun!
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It's fine. IC time was like, two minutes.

We can use Niko's first reaction as a reason for why we very much need to mediate. Hijiri is not Niko, and we don't know how much any of this is her plan.

Leaving them alone, even with Kazumi watching from overhead, is a recipe for disaster, with tensions so high.

We should need to stay close enough we can react, but not so close that they can't ignore us.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Sabrina is not UKG. Feathers is Dedolere, Sabrina's Witch, somehow fucking with us--either from the hypothetical future in which she has hatched, or by virtue of being a complete cheating bastard and outright existing before she actually should be able to.

Sabrina was created by Madoka's Wish in the last loop. What Sabrina was created from is uncertain. Could be Walpurgisnacht, could be something else. Hell, she could even have just been created spontaneously out of thin air. The really confusing part is, of course, why Sabrina was dying before she contracted.
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I... What? Now I'm just more confuse-

defenestrator said:
I dunno if you missed it, but they were referring to a theory derived from a PMAS Discord convo:
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Yeah! That was what I was talking about!

Like I said, I get the general theory, but the details (and their implications) elude me.
 
Onmur said:
It's fine. IC time was like, two minutes.
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Wall-clock time doesn't matter, we missed several rounds of conversation on everything because Sabrina executed the components of our plan one after another, in the process leaving people hanging or, worse yet, filling the air with empty conversation continuation and preventing an interrupt that we had planned for in our vote. Like, this bit right here:
Firnagzen said:
What was I supposed to do when I found out I was just some- some fake? Am I just your doll to live through?"
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Even if we didn't say "I was made by a wish too", we damn well would've said something like "I know people that were made by wishes", or "'Artificial' doesn't matter", or something like that. That was a core assumption. We needed to say that and the only reason it wasn't in the vote is because we intended to write it in a succeeding vote. It was way the hell higher-priority than taking over updates from Saki and I'd have instantly dropped that bit of our vote in favor of more reassurances if I'd known that that was a choice. Hijiri should not have been able to say that line to Niko.

[] No, slapping and yelling doesn't end well. And we're not leaving them alone, that's a recipe for evil-clone shenanigans.
[] Interject, tell Hijiri that created doesn't mean "fake" and argue the point briefly.
-[] Niko and Hijiri are scientists. Empiricism, then: What is the observable difference? Hijiri can't tell that you woke up in an alley with no memories and a giant hole in your chest not three weeks ago, you can't tell that Hijiri is anything but normal.
[] Break to voting after seeing the reactions to that line.
 
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[ ] Hijiri's still a threat, and Niko's not treating her fairly.
-[ ] Neither Kanna is in a good enough state of mind to be alone together.

[ ] Stay close enough to intervene if violence erupts, or if Hijiri tries to run.
-[ ] Let them air their grievances, even if further slapping happens. They're teens, they need an outlet.
-[ ] Intervene if things devolve into a fight, physical or verbal, without any progress being made.

[ ] After they stop, due to your intervention or not, try to mediate:
-[ ] Try to help both Kanna see each other's point of view.
-[ ] Niko made a Wish because of something important for her. Something Hijiri doesn't have. Hijiri is not Niko.
-[ ] Niko shouldn't live vicariously through Hijiri, but she does care in her own way.
 
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[X] Send in the chibis - All the chibis! Even Chibis of Meguca we have yet to meet.
-[X] Have them hug every Niko they see.
 
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Smacking her in the face and screaming at her is handling it?:V Hijiri is already thinking negatively of her as is. On some level I kind of sympathize for her. She finds out she's a freaking copy/clone and her life is one huge lie, and her creator just kind ran off to do whatever. Heck even that actual truth is a little screwed up.

That's kind of the whole point, Hijiri doesn't know what Niko intended. She only had her own assumptions and an explanation from a psycho who hates them all, assuming that she's telling the truth. And Niko really needs to keep that in mind before she says or does anything else.
 
I'm kind of in favor of immediately intervening to calm the situation and then just sitting back to let them talk unless things really get bad. Hijiri doesn't know anything and things looked admittedly pretty bad from her point of view. And Niko can explain the actual truth and everything else but that Hijiri needs to be willing to listen. So, seriously girls, dial it back a bit.:V

Anything further doesn't feel like a good idea. I think that Hijiri needs to hear the whole, actual truth from Niko herself and not some half-baked comments and explanations from Sabrina. Or at least that should be aimed for, who knows if things can actually go that way.

Also, I think letting them vent like this is not a good idea. If Sabrina or anyone else started yelling and slapping someone, would you guys think that would be okay?
 
Matou Sutegobana said:
Oops!
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Well, voting period is open. Joke votes should still be [Q].

Agent Whiskers said:
I'm kind of in favor of immediately intervening to calm the situation and then just sitting back to let them talk unless things really get bad. Hijiri doesn't know anything and things looked admittedly pretty bad from her point of view. And Niko can explain the actual truth and everything else but that Hijiri needs to be willing to listen. So, seriously girls, dial it back a bit.:V

Anything further doesn't feel like a good idea. I think that Hijiri needs to hear the whole, actual truth from Niko herself and not some half-baked comments and explanations from Sabrina. Or at least that should be aimed for, who knows if things can actually go that way.

Also, I think letting them vent like this is not a good idea. If Sabrina or anyone else started yelling and slapping someone, would you guys think that would be okay?
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I'm thinking letting this develop like some sort of social boxing match.

Blows, physical and verbal, might fly, but as long as the physical blows don't go too far, neither girl overwhelms the other, and progress happens, we wait.

The moment any of those three conditions are broken, step in.
 
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Agent Whiskers said:
I'm kind of in favor of immediately intervening to calm the situation and then just sitting back to let them talk unless things really get bad. Hijiri doesn't know anything and things looked admittedly pretty bad from her point of view. And Niko can explain the actual truth and everything else but that Hijiri needs to be willing to listen. So, seriously girls, dial it back a bit.:V

Anything further doesn't feel like a good idea. I think that Hijiri needs to hear the whole, actual truth from Niko herself and not some half-baked comments and explanations from Sabrina. Or at least that should be aimed for, who knows if things can actually go that way.

Also, I think letting them vent like this is not a good idea. If Sabrina or anyone else started yelling and slapping someone, would you guys think that would be okay?
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I am also in favor of intervening immediately. We can not let this go on any longer.

Also, someone (I think it was defenestrator) mentioned bringing Mami in, and although that seems like a good idea, I'm not entirely sure...
 
I feel like Niko's almost on the right track - "I meant for you to have a happy life" - but she's not going to get very far with Hijiri applying the "Fake person" idea as a fully-general counterargument. Niko doesn't have a good response to that, we do. So we step in, address that, then step back and watch to make sure things don't escalate any further.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
Hmm. Should we let the two twins, one of which is evil, out of our sight???? :V :V :V
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We should really ask whether they had swapped places or not: it's not like they would know themselves which one came first with all the memory games going around, and giving them a reason to think in a way that didn't distinguish between them would probably be good for them.
 
[ ] Let things develop as long as there's no escalation, neither girl is overwhelemed, and progress is made.
-[ ] Step in and stop them if any of those conditions is broken. If not, wait it out.

[ ] Once the screaming match finishes, try to mediate.
-[ ] Try to help both girls make their case.
--[ ] Hijiri is not Niko.
--[ ] Niko does care about Hijiri.
-[ ] Be ready to take some heat. They'll probably lash out; they need to.

[ ] Once progress slows down, bring attention back to the crisis at hand.
-[ ] Get the Privacy Device out of the way; ask Hijiri to put us (not necessarily just us) in contact with Yuuri.
 
Vebyast said:
I feel like Niko's almost on the right track - "I meant for you to have a happy life" - but she's not going to get very far with Hijiri applying the "Fake person" idea as a fully-general counterargument. Niko doesn't have a good response to that, we do. So we step in, address that, then step back and watch to make sure things don't escalate any further.
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I would just like to argue that someone giving someone else what the first person wants doesn't give them the right to disregard what the second person wants.
 
Onmur said:
Blows, physical and verbal, might fly, but as long as the physical blows don't go too far, neither girl overwhelms the other, and progress happens, we wait.

The moment any of those three conditions are broken, step in.
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... that premise inherently bothers me.

Well, everyone is different, so it could theoretically work depending on the personalities involved. Or they could just double down and nothing gets solved. Letting Oriko and ourselves get incredibly angry at each other sure as heck didn't do either of us any favors.
 
Agent Whiskers said:
... that premise inherently bothers me.

Well, everyone is different, so it could theoretically work depending on the personalities involved. Or they could just double down and nothing gets solved. Letting Oriko and ourselves get incredibly angry at each other sure as heck didn't do either of us any favors.
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Well, the point is to not let them get incredibly angry.

But look at the right now? Niko did slap Hijiri first thing (well, first thing was being angry at seeing Hijiri restrained; probably because she saw herself being restrained in Hijiri), but even with that, they're both actually getting the first chance they've got to air their problems, state their differences.

Niko marches straight forward, and before you can shout a warning, slaps Hijiri across the face. The smack rings out across the roof, the force of the blow sending Hijiri spinning to the ground.

"You idiot," Niko snarls. "You were supposed to live happy and not... this!"

"What was I supposed to do?" Hijiri snarls right back. She doesn't stand, balanced in a crouch with one hand on the roof and one touching her reddened cheek. "What was I supposed to do when I found out I was just some- some fake? Am I just your doll to live through?"

"No!" Niko snaps. "You were supposed to live like I never could!"
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They're actually talking, stating their positions. I say let them argue back and forth as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

If it does, then we step in, but not before. This is an important moment for them, and while not 'perfect', it's necessary. If we step in now, we're gonna taint this moment, their moment, with outside intervention, and neither will feel free enough to actually express what's on their mind.

In a way, I'm tempted to go with Saki. If Hijiri wasn't a threat, or we'd have talked some with Niko and Hijiri before this happened, I'd go with Saki, absolutely. At least for a few minutes.
 
[ ] Stay and Listen
-[ ] To Saki: Leave identical twins, one of which is not our ally, alone together? Hell no. Hijiri and Niko both deserve someone to impartially mediate: Us, Mami, or Sayaka.
-[ ] Don't interject unless conversation deteriorates to the point where nothing is getting across or things get physical
[ ] Let Niko and Hijiri vent a little bit
-[ ] After a small amount of time, once the pair start to lose steam, remind them about Airi and the Memory Field, both of which need to be fixed.

[ ] MEANWHILE:
-[ ] Oriko said she might die in Asunaro. We should make sure she has help to not do that.
-[ ] Focus the search on the south-eastern part of the city.
-[ ] Remind everyone to call for help the minute they make contact.

Guys, if Airi is loose, and Oriko thinks she'll die here...
 
Muramasa said:
Uh... Niko and Hijiri aren't going to be alone. Kazumi and Kaoru are in sight and approaching.
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Kazumi's noted to be quite angry a couple of times.

Niko's not calm. Kazumi isn't, either.

And Kazumi is the kind of girl who'd let Familiars attack girls in order to make a point... We shouldn't have ALL the faith she'll make everything better every time.
 
Kazumi and Kaoru are biased and partial to the situation. Hijiri wouldn't trust them to moderate; I barely trust them to moderate. Remember that Kazumi was fucking livid about what Hijiri did.

We don't want Hijiri to feel like she's in a Kangaroo Court. We need someone to be her "ally". Us, Sayaka, or Mami would all work, since none of us are as close to Niko as any of the Pleiades and thus we're all at least once removed from the situation at hand.
 
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