Any particular reason we didn't just give the Tauni the Soyuz designs? It would have still been an upgrade and not nearly as much of a giveaway to the Horizon.
Any particular reason we didn't just give the Tauni the Soyuz designs? It would have still been an upgrade and not nearly as much of a giveaway to the Horizon.
@OneirosTheWriter can you provide the stats of the two new Amarkia refits? Calac-A and Brieca-A
Edit: Also for building, is a Tech-Frigate cheaper than a Centaur-A if not the Centaur-A has +1C, +2P and +1D and still counts as a Tech ship since S=C, Gaeni should switch to those.
To summarize the plan differences (and let me know if I made a mistake! I think this is everything):
PP Available: 412. Plans (as I have them) that are overbudget: Forgothrax (SWB Plan corrected).
Diplomacy: Every plan wants to push the Ashindi and Sydraxians. The plans by @Briefvoice, @AlphaDelta, and @Forgothrax want to push the Lamarck, and AlphaDelta also has another spot reserved.
Tech Teams: Everyone except AlphaDelta wants Foreign Analysis/Xenopsychology. All but two have only one team requested, and of the exceptions, AlphaDelta wants Foreign Analysis/Computers and Sensors/Shields, while I added Foreign Analysis/Starbases.
Mining Colony: Everyone wants the SR mine. Everyone except Briefvoice wants the big BR mine. Three of the remaining want all four mines - AlphaDelta, myself, and Forgothrax.
Personnel: Everyone wants the Academy.
Berths: Everyone wants three berths for UP (1/3 combo, & the 2), as well as the Amarki 1/3 combo. Only @Deathbybunnies, Forgothrax, and myself don't want the SF 3mt berth.
Starbase: Everyone except SWB wants the Licori Starbase.
Reorg: Everyone wants to restructure Starfleet Engineering Command. DeathbyBunnies wants an Admiralcy for Starfleet Tactical, while everyone except him and AlphaDelta wants the Explorer Corps to be a Vice A. Myself and Briefvoice are after Vice Admiral for Medical as well.
Intel: KBZ listening posts are wanted by Briefvoice, @SynchronizedWritersBlock, myself, and Forgothrax, while the extra generic intel report is wanted by DeathbyBunnies, SWB, and Forgothrax.
407
403
406
405
439
409
Category
Cost
What
Briefvoice
Deathbybunnies
AlphaDelta
SWB
Forgothrax
HearthBorn
Diplomacy
20
NonAffiliate, Ashidi
x
x
x
x
x
x
Diplomacy
20
NonAffiliate, Sydraxians
x
x
x
x
x
x
Diplomacy
20
Placeholder
x
Diplomacy
20
NonAffiliate, Lamarck
x
x
x
Tech Team
30
Foreign Analysis/Xenopsychology
x
x
x
x
x
Tech Team
30
Foreign Analysis/Starbases
x
Tech Team
30
Foreign Analysis/Computers
x
Tech Team
30
Sensors/Shields
x
Mining Colony
8
Fornost VII-19, 40 (45) br/yr, 8 turns
x
x
x
x
x
Mining Colony
8
2 Curacao VII, 20 (30) sr/yr, 4 turns
x
x
x
x
x
x
Mining Colony
8
Kappa Tau, 15 (20) br/yr, 4 turns
x
x
x
Mining Colony
8
Proxima Eridani, 8pp, 15 (20) br/yr, 4 turns
x
x
x
Personnel
45
Academy Development
x
x
x
x
x
x
Berths
28
Utopia Planitia, 4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth
x
x
x
x
x
x
Berths
11
Utopia Planitia, 6 turns, gain new 2m t berth
x
x
x
x
x
x
Berths
32
San Francisco Fleet Yards, 6 turns, gain new 3m t berth
x
x
x
Berths
33
Amarkia, 12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth
x
x
x
x
x
x
Starbase
25
New Starbase I, Licori Border Zone
x
x
x
x
x
Reorg
60
Restructure, Starfleet Engineering Command
x
x
x
x
x
x
Reorg
30
Vice Admiral, Medical
x
x
Reorg
45
Admiral, Starfleet Tactical
x
Reorg
25
Vice Admiral, Explorer Corps
x
x
x
x
Intel
20
Improved Listening Posts, 25% chance of +1 Intel report, KBZ
[X][COUNCIL] 2317 Snakepit – Intelligence and EC Reorg
[X][TECH] Inid Uttar Institute (Sk 3, Sensors / Propulsion)
[X][TECH] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute (Sk 3, Starbases / Minerals)
[X][AMB] Announce new Starfleet Ambition: Maintain a strong Forward Defense.
- (Complete at least six Forward Defense technologies, put a Starbase in every Border Zone, and complete the first slide of Foreign Analysis Research for both the Harmony of Horizon and the Klingon Empire.)
- FD "technologies" means 6 full slides.
@SynchronizedWritersBlock your plan is over budget: 20+20+30+8+8+45+28+11+32+33+25+60+25+20+70 = 435. I'd drop the Licori Starbase, it's the only issue I have with the plan (right now it has more downsides than upsides IMO and it will get cheaper) and even if building one there ends up being part of our ambition there is no need to do so right now, as opposed to when we are close to finishing the necessary research.
Also, because it's bugging the crap out of me. It's Ashidi, not Ashindi. Admittedly Oneiros has gotten it wrong a few times, so it's not surprising there is confusion.
So I have updated our ship numbers:
Starfleet, Members and Affiliates
71 under construction (17 explorer, 22 cruiser, 32 escort)
1 under repair (escort)
13 under refit (3 explorers, 6 cruisers and 4 escorts).
337 ships in active service, 206 of which are escorts, coming to 1166 combat.
Starfleet now has 7 Cargo Ships and 6 Freighters under construction with another Cargo Ship, Freighter and Super Freighter due to start this quarter (Q2). There are 49 freight ships (cargo ships, freighters and super freighters) under construction between Starfleet, Members and Affiliates. Member worlds have 71 Engineering ships with another 7 under construction. Risa-affiliate, has started an engineering team with two of the ships being built by the Orions.
Starfleet now has 7 Cargo Ships and 6 Freighters under construction with another Cargo Ship, Freighter and Super Freighter due to start this quarter (Q2).
So out of deficit of 10 Cargo Ships and 8 freighters we now have the Freighters completely covered (9/8) and the Cargo Ships mostly (7/10) covered with ships under construction. Of course that was the deficit six months ago and we're still two years out before a lot of this capacity gets built.
Why? They're past the point of affiliation already, and we have diplomatic channels open to them if the situation changes. Why not, for example, the Lamarck, or even the Hishmeri to improve our relations?
We don't want a random event that causes *negative* relations with the Gretarians to knock us back below 100? The Lamarck are fine where they are for now; they're a barely-warp civilization with minimal ability to contribute in any case. The Hishmeri... far from a bad idea. We could do that. It would make sense.
I really don't get that, by the way. A lot of Intelligence Reports end up being basically of not much value, a "Nice to have" but telling us nothing we don't already know.
They provide a tremendous amount of context sometimes. They give us much firmer support for our speculations and planning than we can get just from relying on omakes as canon and pulling stuff out of our... hats.
Maybe our moving a large fleet down into the border region to deter the Hishmeri had the side effect of Ittick-ka scouts detecting more of our ships and realizing that we're tough enough that some minimal level of 'talk to us' is necessary.
while I like @Briefvoice plan, I think we should consider this item:
NEW Sponsor efforts for a Major Shipyard Preparations to pave the way for a Utopia Planitia style shipyard, 4 turns, 75pp
a second UP elsewhere can be an impressive boon in the long term. we could cut the promotion of tactical to VDAM and the armakian yard, for instance.
Sure, this is just planing so, four turns till the next step, which will probably cost us more PP and time then on to get the first parts set up and lets not forget dealing with the council about location and what not.
But it is a very tempting idea and we should give it some consideration, at least in my opinion.
We are nowhere near being able to take proper advantage of such a huge secondary yard facility. There are a lot of other things we can and/or should do right now or in the immediate future, rather than spending 75pp on something that probably won't actually have a payoff for a decade or more.
"For the last time, there's no part of the Soyuz-class that's a deathtrap, unless you go and keep them in service for over fifty years without refurbishment! If Starfleet had wanted the Soyuzes to be working reliably in 2305, they'd have spent some of the budget for the Miranda program on mid-life refits back in the '70s. But we needed Mirandas as backup against the Klingons, so there it was. They got kept in service as utility ships long, long after their design life. Things broke down. That's all. If you built a new Soyuz today, to the original specifications, it might not perform up to today's standards, but it'd do as well as it ever did- and it'd still be running fine fifty years from now, when my great-grandchildren are probably going to be little redshirts on the Enterprise-D."
"That's because until we did that project for the Betazoids. modern warp core assemblies were bigger than a Soyuz's whole engineering space. The Soyuz was half the size of a Miranda, which is part of why they never did a refurbishment project in the first place. Constitutions are at least big enough to be effective multirole ships in a modern operations environment. Soyuzes, not so much."
We are nowhere near being able to take proper advantage of such a huge secondary yard facility. There are a lot of other things we can and/or should do right now or in the immediate future, rather than spending 75pp on something that probably won't actually have a payoff for a decade or more.
It's worth noting we're not talking about just 75pp. The option says to make preparations for a UP style shipyard not to actually build one. We'd almost certainly have to pay a second time to actually build it and going by past experience it would be expensive: 2302:
Request funding to start Utopia Planitia Shipyards, 135pp (16 turns, gain new shipyard starting with 2 3m t berths, 2 1m t berths, immediate activation of a Light Cruiser research team)
[X][COUNCIL] 2317 Snakepit – Intelligence and EC Reorg
[X][TECH] Inid Uttar Institute (Sk 3, Sensors / Propulsion)
[X][TECH] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute (Sk 3, Starbases / Minerals)
[X][AMB] Announce new Starfleet Ambition: Infrastructure Development.
- (Have Starfleet fully self-sufficient in logistics capacity outside of emergencies, while building at least one additional engineering team and without affecting the planned pace of new hospital ship deployment. Additionally, start preparations for at least one new Utopia Planetia-style shipyard.)
Why I think a LBZ Starbase is not a good idea right now:
We actually need the three remaining ships currently stationed there to defend against occasional rogue Mentats, even if a Starbase reduces the defense requirements to 6 next year we wouldn't actually take advantage of it (at most we might trade the Connie-B for a Centaur-A or something like that, but IMO it's actually more likely we'll end up adding a ship instead).
There is no colony there that could support a Starbase, so it would raise our logistics demand.
A Starbase can only defend one location and there is no one location in particular that we need to defend ahead of all others.
The sensors of a Starbase wouldn't be anywhere as useful as in most other border zones, because we already have good coverage due to the Betazed Starbase and the outposts and listening posts constructed during the Licori war, and also because there is no unclaimed/low traffic area adjacent to the border zone where warp signatures would stand out.
We have discounts for border zone Starbases coming up.
It would tie up an engineering team which we would have to borrow, while later on we might be able to just use one of our own.
it would make more sense to wait until we have a better location for a Starbase, discounts from doctrine research or both, or at least until we need the Starbase to fulfill the ambition.
It basically means that we should not Diplo Push this year or the next for a while and focus our PP elsewhere. Like building more Berths and founding more Mining colonies. Especially the Colonies this time since one system has 4 separate Mining locations that we can take advantage of IIRC.
[X][COUNCIL] 2317 Snakepit – Intelligence and EC Reorg
[X][TECH] Inid Uttar Institute (Sk 3, Sensors / Propulsion)
[X][TECH] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute (Sk 3, Starbases / Minerals)
[X][AMB] Announce new Starfleet Ambition: Infrastructure Development.
- (Have Starfleet fully self-sufficient in logistics capacity outside of emergencies, while building at least one additional engineering team and without affecting the planned pace of new hospital ship deployment. Additionally, start preparations for at least one new Utopia Planetia-style shipyard.)
Eh, why not - it gets the Intel report, and one of the two tech teams I was interested in. Dropping my plan.
It's worth noting we're not talking about just 75pp. The option says to make preparations for a UP style shipyard not to actually build one. We'd almost certainly have to pay a second time to actually build it and going by past experience it would be expensive: 2302:
Granted, but as you also demonstrated, the PP price started going down for the first tranche year after year. so, doing the pre-elim work soonish would net us that advantage.
So, as an example, let's say we take the option next snakepit, and go for the 1st stage 3-5 years afterwards or thereabouts and, hell, we might get additional perks down the line as well.
Or we could work some council deal about it as well, which would also help us lower the cost.
Mind you, I don't feel like taking the option now, but the pre-elim work might be worth taking soonish rather than latter
