UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The idea is to practice native enchantment. Remember Kirika's anti-magic rocks, made using her native/natural enchantment? We're trying to see what happens with ours.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
[X]The Phoenixian
The Mitakihara Revitalization, huh? I bet we could hijack that.
Maybe Hackerguca would agree to get us another identity or something.
The Mitakihara Revitalization, huh? I bet we could hijack that.
Maybe Hackerguca would agree to get us another identity or something.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
As far as 'natural' magics... we actually got some to pick from!
Our Wish magic is Grief Control... which we really need to sit down and try to enchant, but without assists like we tried earlier. If it doesn't work... and the Ribbon channeling doesn't work either, we might not be able to have Grief Control happen outside our radius, ever.
Well, besides our Wish magic, we've got other natural magics we could try to enchant, that being Multitasking magic and Magic Sense magic.
While managing to make Grief Control enchantments would be great, any successful enchantment should be a good first step, and make it easier to practice other kinds of enchantment later.
Our Wish magic is Grief Control... which we really need to sit down and try to enchant, but without assists like we tried earlier. If it doesn't work... and the Ribbon channeling doesn't work either, we might not be able to have Grief Control happen outside our radius, ever.
Well, besides our Wish magic, we've got other natural magics we could try to enchant, that being Multitasking magic and Magic Sense magic.
While managing to make Grief Control enchantments would be great, any successful enchantment should be a good first step, and make it easier to practice other kinds of enchantment later.
- Location
- United States
[X] Redshirt Army
- Location
- Texas
Item 1 should just be a grief containment system.
A sealed container that can hold grief indefinitely? An object that exerts gravitational-style attraction to atmospheric grief, pulling it into a sphere and preventing it from outgassing?
Dangerous to try and remove grief from soul gems if there's not already a method for storing or transporting it safely.
A sealed container that can hold grief indefinitely? An object that exerts gravitational-style attraction to atmospheric grief, pulling it into a sphere and preventing it from outgassing?
Dangerous to try and remove grief from soul gems if there's not already a method for storing or transporting it safely.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Hmm... If we're going to discuss scheduling for Sayaka's training, doesn't Sayaka need to be involved? Maybe meeting Kyouko should be after school. Besides, I seem to recall that she tends to sleep in, so I have my doubts about whether we could meet her and still be in. Asunaro by 1100.
I'm not sure that this will communicate what you mean it to communicate. What about this?
[ ] Admit that you'd been hoping to take her out to dinner someplace nice for a while now, but she beat you to the punch. You'll have to think of someplace even nicer to take her next time.
Oriko was lichbombed. It seems like a meguca's body still needs its existing nervous system to control it, because severing the spinal cord completely disabled her. That would fit with the prevailing thought in terminal ballistics: the only guaranteed stop is to hit the central nervous system. A human can keep fighting for 10-15 seconds after their heart stops, but they physically can't control their limbs without their spine.
It's Kind Of A Big Deal in Western culture, too. The more casual attitude towards it here on SV is not the prevailing norm.
It's been established that it's much easier to enchant something related to a meguca's wish-themed magic. We're hoping that means it's possible for us to enchant something that will clean soul gems.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
The issue is that we can't go after school without the Asunaro crew coming along, which is a can of worms I'd rather avoid.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
I was hoping that Mami and the Asunaro crew could keep each other company for bit. Going to be a little hard to go forward with this if Sabrina, Kyouko and Sayaka can never be in the same place at the same time.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I'm not at all sure that leaving them alone with each other without being able to run interference is a good idea, the first night. I'd be a lot more willing to do that on Tuesday, once we have a better picture of how their interactions will go.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
For the most part, I believe Meguca fit in the classification of "living things", they are just able to continue functioning and recover from things that would make a tardigrade green with envy.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
So I am epiphany tripping hard, I have to leave very soon, and I have no time for proper responses to everything else in the thread. Even so, I want to get this out.
So here's the epiphany:
There have been a number of Brina theorys: Walpurgis!Brina, Kyuu!Brina, I think there may be a Clara!Brina around too somewhere.
Well, simply brute force theorizing suggests that we should eventually look to Wraith!Brina.
And on inspection... it kind of checks out.
Here's the start of the thought: There are four states of matter: Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma. From most to least dense (+ however you fit plasma in that.) We've tried grief in two of these.
There are also four kinds of wraiths. Each kind of wraith is named for a level of enlightenment, and has an attack or effect corresponding to an age of the universe: The smallest wraiths use lasers, bright light, corresponding to the beginning --- "let there be light" and all that; the second, Shugen Wraiths, are associated with fire, and thus the hot early period; the third, Satori wraiths, induce corrosion, which the corresponds to the universe ruled by the decay of entropy; the last, Moksha wraiths, are freezing cold, associated with the final end.
When we use grief, it becomes witchy when we do something, even natural forces. Making magnetism is witchy. Making gravity is witchy. This is very frequently noted.
However, when gaseous grief corrodes matter, it's not especially more witchy than normal gas. It even does it on it's own. Now you could associate that corrosion with "Well, it's grief, it's despair, of course it does that." And on it's own this is entirely reasonable.
But then we go to luce prima: During the experiments that led to luce prima, making light from solid grief is never noted to be especially witchy. (at least from my view on the thread, and I'm using a pretty quick ctrl+f for "witch") Despite that, it works, and it works well enough to melt an engine block. There's no mention of a "twist" or anything the first time we make light, we just do it very... naturally using a single grief sphere. All this despite melting a car's engine block on our first go. We can even feel the nature and qualities of the light source/laser beam as it emerge from the grief quite naturally. (The page and first of the posts I'm looking at, for reference.)
Interestingly, luce prima isn't even our suggestion: It's Mami's and from what I've seen Mami is often Firn's voice. (Which would also suggest we name the resulting state of grief attacks Fiamma secondo, Decadenza terzo, Ghiaccio/Congelare Ultimo, <second flame, third decay, final ice> after just taking a quick look at google translate.)
There's more that than though. When a wraith pulls from a soul gem or person, it's accompanying image is akin to stream or a river of grief. Just like we're described as doing it. More than that, wraiths bind grief into a "safe" state, mixing the memories, magic, and grief they acquire to create grief cubes. We've never bound grief with magic (or memories) but we do keep it in safe state within our presence.
It even fits with the creation of clear seeds: Wraiths drain soul gems, leaving nothingness. We drain grief seeds in a similar way, leaving only the absolute core.
Of course this raises a question: Aren't wraiths emotionless old men/modern art? Yes, but they can and do gain emotion, and the more emotion they gain, the more human they become. The Moksha wraith of Wraith Arc, the very strongest wraith was filled with the memories and emotions of a world... and it ceased to be a wraith at all. In that case, it absorbed the witch of a universe and became one itself. Wraith!Madoka might also count, being a very small wraith filled with the emotions of one girl, and becoming the physical embodiment of her love, the Clara Doll Ai.
In our, hypothetical, case? It came into possession of a living, breathing, healthy world... and became human. But it may not have happened that way. Or it may have. We can't tell.
Wraith!Madoka is also noteworthy that she's even able to talk about the motives of wraiths and make her own decisions.
Which is interesting, because, well... A lot of magic's "karmic consequences" seem to arise through perfectly normal means. Sayaka healing Kyouske and then having Hitomi confront her for his love for instance. Even if Madoka is responsible for their existence in Wraith Arc, the explanation given by them for their actions always struck me as exactly like something an incubator would say. "Prevent energy from building up and causing bad consequences" Very leading, very low on details. Sort of like "Accept a life of battle."
It wouldn't surprise me if Madoka's wish was responsible for them karmically, but the actual physical side of things was due to the incubators after their attempts to create witches failed. (Or just that the incubators took control of that side of the system after it came into existence. Wraith powers and soul absorption is pretty similar to what the Law of Cycles does after all. They even also serve as a dark mirror to the role of defeating witches before they were born via soul absorption.)
Which, if true, means that the wraiths of a different wish could look very very different.
That said, the possibility that wraiths are generally similar would well also explain the oddity of our soul, and it being like something Kyuubey never encountered before. The soul of an emotional wraith needn't look anything at all like a human or even a witch: It's channeling and being absorbed by emotions that aren't truly even it's own to begin with. Of course it would look massively different! (Which, you know, also looks a lot like Sabrina growing from the thread's discussion and decisions and absorbing that into her psyche. It started off as something handed to her, but became more and more her own the more she dealt with it.)
That also ties into witches in two ways: Wraiths cannot absorb witches without being consumed by them. Same with us: We talk to a witch directly, we fall to it. But the the whole humanized!Wraith thing even fits our particular witch: Our witch is Dedolere: An end to grief. Wraiths are associated with Buddhism, which seeks to move beyond suffering. Wraiths are also associated with the progression of the universe, which, IIRC, our witch's stopping grief/magic (whichever it was) would allow.
It doesn't answer everything: "Why are we approximately European?" for one. There could be much more to us than just that. Even so, it certainly seems to fit our powers and possibly much of our nature.
And because of it links to the fundamental material states of our grief power this is testable: If wraiths correspond to grief "density", plasmatic grief should freeze things that are exposed to it, and fluid grief should ignite things. (it could be the other way around and still work, of course, but if it's this way then it's very solid evidence.)
Likewise, we may be able to enchant grief to create a grief-cube from magic+grief stabilizing each other. (Not really evidence, except circumstantially, and I wouldn't call it enough besides what I've reviewed here unless it comes very naturally.)
Well, there's my thoughts... and now... I should go.
So here's the epiphany:
There have been a number of Brina theorys: Walpurgis!Brina, Kyuu!Brina, I think there may be a Clara!Brina around too somewhere.
Well, simply brute force theorizing suggests that we should eventually look to Wraith!Brina.
And on inspection... it kind of checks out.
Here's the start of the thought: There are four states of matter: Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma. From most to least dense (+ however you fit plasma in that.) We've tried grief in two of these.
There are also four kinds of wraiths. Each kind of wraith is named for a level of enlightenment, and has an attack or effect corresponding to an age of the universe: The smallest wraiths use lasers, bright light, corresponding to the beginning --- "let there be light" and all that; the second, Shugen Wraiths, are associated with fire, and thus the hot early period; the third, Satori wraiths, induce corrosion, which the corresponds to the universe ruled by the decay of entropy; the last, Moksha wraiths, are freezing cold, associated with the final end.
When we use grief, it becomes witchy when we do something, even natural forces. Making magnetism is witchy. Making gravity is witchy. This is very frequently noted.
However, when gaseous grief corrodes matter, it's not especially more witchy than normal gas. It even does it on it's own. Now you could associate that corrosion with "Well, it's grief, it's despair, of course it does that." And on it's own this is entirely reasonable.
But then we go to luce prima: During the experiments that led to luce prima, making light from solid grief is never noted to be especially witchy. (at least from my view on the thread, and I'm using a pretty quick ctrl+f for "witch") Despite that, it works, and it works well enough to melt an engine block. There's no mention of a "twist" or anything the first time we make light, we just do it very... naturally using a single grief sphere. All this despite melting a car's engine block on our first go. We can even feel the nature and qualities of the light source/laser beam as it emerge from the grief quite naturally. (The page and first of the posts I'm looking at, for reference.)
Interestingly, luce prima isn't even our suggestion: It's Mami's and from what I've seen Mami is often Firn's voice. (Which would also suggest we name the resulting state of grief attacks Fiamma secondo, Decadenza terzo, Ghiaccio/Congelare Ultimo, <second flame, third decay, final ice> after just taking a quick look at google translate.)
There's more that than though. When a wraith pulls from a soul gem or person, it's accompanying image is akin to stream or a river of grief. Just like we're described as doing it. More than that, wraiths bind grief into a "safe" state, mixing the memories, magic, and grief they acquire to create grief cubes. We've never bound grief with magic (or memories) but we do keep it in safe state within our presence.
It even fits with the creation of clear seeds: Wraiths drain soul gems, leaving nothingness. We drain grief seeds in a similar way, leaving only the absolute core.
Of course this raises a question: Aren't wraiths emotionless old men/modern art? Yes, but they can and do gain emotion, and the more emotion they gain, the more human they become. The Moksha wraith of Wraith Arc, the very strongest wraith was filled with the memories and emotions of a world... and it ceased to be a wraith at all. In that case, it absorbed the witch of a universe and became one itself. Wraith!Madoka might also count, being a very small wraith filled with the emotions of one girl, and becoming the physical embodiment of her love, the Clara Doll Ai.
In our, hypothetical, case? It came into possession of a living, breathing, healthy world... and became human. But it may not have happened that way. Or it may have. We can't tell.
Wraith!Madoka is also noteworthy that she's even able to talk about the motives of wraiths and make her own decisions.
Which is interesting, because, well... A lot of magic's "karmic consequences" seem to arise through perfectly normal means. Sayaka healing Kyouske and then having Hitomi confront her for his love for instance. Even if Madoka is responsible for their existence in Wraith Arc, the explanation given by them for their actions always struck me as exactly like something an incubator would say. "Prevent energy from building up and causing bad consequences" Very leading, very low on details. Sort of like "Accept a life of battle."
It wouldn't surprise me if Madoka's wish was responsible for them karmically, but the actual physical side of things was due to the incubators after their attempts to create witches failed. (Or just that the incubators took control of that side of the system after it came into existence. Wraith powers and soul absorption is pretty similar to what the Law of Cycles does after all. They even also serve as a dark mirror to the role of defeating witches before they were born via soul absorption.)
Which, if true, means that the wraiths of a different wish could look very very different.
That said, the possibility that wraiths are generally similar would well also explain the oddity of our soul, and it being like something Kyuubey never encountered before. The soul of an emotional wraith needn't look anything at all like a human or even a witch: It's channeling and being absorbed by emotions that aren't truly even it's own to begin with. Of course it would look massively different! (Which, you know, also looks a lot like Sabrina growing from the thread's discussion and decisions and absorbing that into her psyche. It started off as something handed to her, but became more and more her own the more she dealt with it.)
That also ties into witches in two ways: Wraiths cannot absorb witches without being consumed by them. Same with us: We talk to a witch directly, we fall to it. But the the whole humanized!Wraith thing even fits our particular witch: Our witch is Dedolere: An end to grief. Wraiths are associated with Buddhism, which seeks to move beyond suffering. Wraiths are also associated with the progression of the universe, which, IIRC, our witch's stopping grief/magic (whichever it was) would allow.
It doesn't answer everything: "Why are we approximately European?" for one. There could be much more to us than just that. Even so, it certainly seems to fit our powers and possibly much of our nature.
And because of it links to the fundamental material states of our grief power this is testable: If wraiths correspond to grief "density", plasmatic grief should freeze things that are exposed to it, and fluid grief should ignite things. (it could be the other way around and still work, of course, but if it's this way then it's very solid evidence.)
Likewise, we may be able to enchant grief to create a grief-cube from magic+grief stabilizing each other. (Not really evidence, except circumstantially, and I wouldn't call it enough besides what I've reviewed here unless it comes very naturally.)
Well, there's my thoughts... and now... I should go.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Point. Guess we'll have to hope that Kyouko's willing to get up early.
I still really want to get Kyouko a place to stay so she can quit doing B&Es and squatting. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of places you can rent with cash and no I.D. And the hotel rooms you can rent anonymously with cash would probably raise an eyebrow at bringing in a ten-year-old. Still, we can probably get around that.
Do you think that renting a room like that for, say, a week while we make some more permanent arrangements would make a significant dent in our cash reserves?
Maybe we could get her a prepaid cell phone while we're at it?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
We instinctively knew from the start we can do solid, liquid, and gas.
I figure it's more than the tiny little bits of Grief are moving into the material itself (a metal rod, in this case).
As far as Prima Luce goes, I've been assuming it's Witchy, since it wasn't noted to not be Witchy. Just like other times we created light.
EDIT: Actually:
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- Location
- A place
[X] The Phoenixian
Can we do more than just a glance at geopolitics though? We where not able to ask Homura more about the last loop and I have a itch for a good info dump that I need to get scratched. Also the fact that the Idol industry has changed shows how much our knowledge can be inaccurate due to random wishes changing major things.
Can we do more than just a glance at geopolitics though? We where not able to ask Homura more about the last loop and I have a itch for a good info dump that I need to get scratched. Also the fact that the Idol industry has changed shows how much our knowledge can be inaccurate due to random wishes changing major things.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
She has Kyuubey.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
It was noted to not be witchy, by Mami.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
See our past discussions re: telepathy being a bit intrusive and interrupting people an inopportune times, which is why we've started getting cell phone numbers from everyone. Being able to send text messages will save us from worrying if we're bothering her when she's asleep.
Besides, someday she might want to talk to someone other than us. Like to get a pizza delivered.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
On the topic of Oriko not being able to control her body with a spine injury, do note that Oriko wasn't very experienced with her magic at that point. She had never even attempted enchantment, and had never been in a fight or had to magically fuck with her body; her precognition pretty much totally consumes her magic usage due to how taxing it is.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
When?
Also, keep this in mind:
Solid Grief does feel Witchy, a little. Mami can sense it, while Kirika can not.
It would be super strange for Witch Light to feel less Witchy than Solid Grief.
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Oh my fucking god Madoka created a Wraith, had it absorb the entirety of Walpurgisnacht, and programmed it to see all this bullshit we don't like as a flaw in the universe.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Wraith Arc came out well after PMAS started. It would be weird for Sabrina being a wraith to be the case.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
So it'd require Sabrina to be a cosmic retcon?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
So it'd require Sabrina to be a cosmic retcon?
Barring Firnagzen actually being a member of InuCurry, it would essentially require him to have retconned our powers after the fact, yes.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Fucking hell, you're right. After all, Wraiths are the Universe's enforcers, essentially. Wishes seem to interface with said universe directly.
If her Wish needed to produce a physical agent to carry out her will...the Universe would be the one providing said agent. That is, it'd produce a Wraith or Wraith-like entity to do the job. Sabrina appeared from nowhere.
Why we were wounded is harder to guess, but if Walpurgisnacht WAS used as an ingredient...
Wait. Wait. Memories...they're linked to memories.
Body. Mind. Soul.
Wraith. SV. Walpurgisnacht.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
... The universe hates wishes, so why exactly would it provide for a wish when the wish is clearly powerful enough to do all the work?