Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Firnagzen said:

Asunaro... Do you know of the group called the Pleaides Saints?" You flex your will, shaping the Grief into little models of the girls in question, each in their transformed outfits.

Kirika peers at the models curiously. "They need pants," she observes sagely.

"Yes," you agree. "Yes, they do."

Oriko considers the models. "I presume you wish for me to try and see if there are any major events pertaining to them?"

"Yeah," you confirm. "And one... uh, two more girls. Soujo Ayase and Luca." You form another model, of the twin-souled girl. Or possible single-bodied duo.

"Them," Oriko says, an annoyed tone in her voice. "They may come through Mitakihara in... two weeks."

You raise an eyebrow. "Hmm?" you say, interested. "Can you backtrack her, uh, them to Asunaro?" And isn't she supposed to die there? And how the hell are you supposed to refer to them, anyway?

Oriko purses her lips, regarding the model carefully, her Soul Gem beginning to bubble with Grief again. Her eyes slide shut, brow furrowing as she spreads her powers.

Eventually, she shakes her head, eyes opening. They're slightly glazed over. "Too far, too many events." She jerks her head at the models still floating in the air and immediately winces. "The Pleaides Saints are still alive."

"Even Kazusa?" you ask, the model of the girl drifting forward. Kazusa Michiru, nicknamed Kazumi.

Oriko grimaces, thinking it over. "Yes, I think."

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The relevant information, for posterity.

For reference, this was on Monday, and it's now Sunday, so tommorow marks 7 days since Oriko made her fourteen day projection.

The Phoenixian said:

[ ] Small talk.
-[ ] Ask Oriko if she'd like us to help clean.

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I think the past update heavily pointed towards 'there's no need to ask about helping clean up'.

... Though, I still want to ask about the graffiti.

The Phoenixian said:

[ ]Ask for a moment in private with Mami first.
-[ ] Tell her we'd like to go to Asunaro .
-[ ] Part of it is the Pleiades Saints: In a possible future they put some work into trying to improve the magical girl situation and reducing reliance on Kyubey.
-[ ] The other part of it is that bad experimental procedure and several secrets getting out in the worst ways possible could cause a giant mess. We want to curtail that.
-[ ] Ask what she knows of Kazusa and her situation.
-[ ]...hesitantly explain that the quickest time to go there would be tomorrow while she's at school... which means we... might miss lunch.

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I think being reassuring/comforting beats being hesitant. We're not really hesitating on this decision, after all, and hesitating would make it seem like we're doing something bad.

Also, I'm kind of on the fence about it, but I think we can tell the first part of the explanation in front of O&K, so we don't repeat ourselves, and... I don't want to 'push' them away so easily, if that makes sense. If we were gonna ask for a moment as soon as we got here, we might as well have talked with Mami on the way here, right?

About what to say about Asunaro, I think Kai is right that we should say only what we need to say, and we already have a very good motive in spreading Clear Seeds. We shouldn't worry Mami until we actually know what's going on.


[X] Ask Oriko how she's doing. Offer to get rid of the graffiti outside.

[X] Talk about Asunaro.
-[X] Plan: Visit Asunaro tomorrow. Spread Clear Seeds. Maybe even make friends. Get magic research buddies.
-[X] Ask Oriko what she remembers about Asunaro.

[X] Ask for a private moment with Mami.
-[X] Be reassuring/apologetic/comforting.
-[X] You plan to visit Asunaro while she's at school, so you might miss lunch.
-[X] You're sorry about it, you will make it up to her. You want to make it up to her.
-[X] Since she's inviting us tonight, maybe we can take her out for dinner tomorrow?

[X] If Mami's OK, ask her to put you both in contact with Kazusa.
-[X] Be NiceBrina.
-[X] Tell Kazusa about how you've been helping magical girls with your powers.
-[X] And ask for permission to visit tomorrow.

I wonder whether Sabrina should be having unrealistically high hopes of wherever Mami is planning to have dinner.

Also, plan ask Hitomi/Shin for help getting reservations at a nice restaurant tomorrow night?

Onmur said:

I think the past update heavily pointed towards 'there's no need to ask about helping clean up'.

... Though, I still want to ask about the graffiti.

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That's sort of what I meant, intentions got eaten in the shortening.

Onmur said:

I think being reassuring/comforting beats being hesitant. We're not really hesitating on this decision, after all, and hesitating would make it seem like we're doing something bad.

Also, I'm kind of on the fence about it, but I think we can tell the first part of the explanation in front of O&K, so we don't repeat ourselves, and... I don't want to 'push' them away so easily, if that makes sense. If we were gonna ask for a moment as soon as we got here, we might as well have talked with Mami on the way here, right?

About what to say about Asunaro, I think Kai is right that we should say only what we need to say, and we already have a very good motive in spreading Clear Seeds.

We shouldn't worry Mami until we actually know what's going on.

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The problem with Kai's plan, is that if things have gone to hell, or do so once we arrive, then we haven't put in the preparations for that. It's one thing to hope for the best, but it's still extremely important to prepare for things going wrong. I would much, much rather talk to Mami about the possibility that things might go wrong now, and risk worry over nothing, than I would keep a secret only to get ourselves caught in a giant mess and risk her worrying after.

Just for instance, we're walking into a city with a pretty potent memory modifier, one who's set up city scale effects before: What happens if she's set up an effect we didn't see in PMKM and it so happens that that works on us? Or even parts of PMKM happened and others haven't and we end up with a boatload of grief and no Kyubey to hand it off to for instance?

Canon PMKM is something I would equate to a mad scientist's unsecured laboratory. Modified PMKM I have no idea, but could still be the same sort of situation. It's entirely possible that absolutely nothing will go wrong. But by the same token it's also possible that things will go wrong in ways we have absolutely no way of knowing about, both large and small. And as things stand, us being prepared means ensuring our friends are prepared.

As far as hesitance, well, I put that vote like I did because I'm hesitant and worried, and feel I'm not alone in that. It's more what I think to be our honest feelings. Even changing that however, I don't think being reassuring and comforting is the right answer.

...Okay, thinking about it, I think the heart of the matter is that I'm uncomfortable with just telling Mami that we're not going to make it to lunch, especially given how important our time with is to her. I'd like to get her input on the matter rather than just saying what's going to happen and promising to make it up to her. Even with something as small as this is, I want her to be an agent in the decision, rather than laying down the law for her and apologizing.

[X] Small talk.
-[X] Offer to get rid of the graffiti outside.

[X] Talk about plans to visit Asunaro.
-[X] We want to visit the Pleiades Saints: In a possible future they put a lot of work into improving the situation of magical girls.
-[X] Unfortunately, bad experimental procedure and several secrets getting out in the worst ways possible could cause a giant mess. We want to curtail that. If we're lucky it may just take a short talk, our contact info, and a clear seed.
-[X] Ask Mami what she knows of Kazusa and her situation.
-[X] Ask Oriko what she remembers of Asunaro.

[X] Ask for a private moment with Mami.
-[X] Consult over the best time to visit.
--[X] You could visit while she's at school but... you might... miss lunch.

[X]Break for voting before you ask Mami to put you in contact.

As a random aside, it occurs to me that, from an outside perspective (Homura's in particular), Sabrina kind of does fit into the whole "I wish everything could be fixed" role for all of the people Madoka knows/knew on a personal level (and more besides).

For Homura, Sabrina showed up out of nowhere, knew exactly what was going on, what Homura had been through, pledged to help and support her, acted as a vital translator/mediator between her and everyone else (thus preventing her making an enemy out of everyone but Madoka through diplomacy failures and an inability to social), and has the ability to actually stand up to Walpurgisnacht (and kill it). The emotional support she offers to Homura is a big deal, too--it's something she's basically not had since her first loop. And let's not forget that Sabrina's power basically offers the ultimate incentive for magical girls all over to come help fight Walpurgisnacht, meaning that, even putting Sabrina's sheer power aside, Homura has good reason to expect that she'll have a small army of meguca backing her up against Walpurgisnacht this time--giving her more reason to hope than she's had in ages. Ironically, Sabrina often acts like an older sister or mother figure to Homura (making sure she eats better and more often, making sure she gets enough sleep, making sure she interacts with friends more often, making sure she knows that Sabrina supports her and has faith in her, etc)--despite (probably) being the magical Wish-child of Madoka and Homura.

For Mami, Sabrina showed up out of nowhere, was friendly to her, supportive of her, understood her loneliness and promised to stay with her...and did. She revealed Kyubey for the false friend that he is, as well as the truth about Soul Gems, but has remained her rock of stability and comfort throughout. She continually shows that she's fine with Mami acting clingy (as a result of her trauma) and isn't driven away by it. She's given Mami the physical comfort and affection she's badly craved for years, too. The positive reinforcement and praise help, too. Not only that, she's slowly working towards mending the relationships she once had with her former pupils/friends.

For Kyouko, Sabrina showed up out of nowhere, helped her adopted little sister out (and saved her from a Witch), offered to cleanse her (and Yuma's) soul gem at any time for free, bought them a bunch of food, and offered friendship, maintaining a stubborn determination to get past the 'tsun' part of Kyouko while still respecting it. All the while, making Kyouko feel less like she can only rely on herself and countering the notion that she's a purely selfish or bad person.

For Sayaka, Sabrina showed up out of nowhere, became a friend to her, and prevented things from falling apart around her. She rescued her and her parents from their burning home, then brought down the ones responsible. When Sayaka contracted out of feeling helpless and a burden, Sabrina was quick to reassure her that she would be okay and that she hadn't made some fatal or foolish mistake. She respects Sayaka's determination to be a hero, and thanks to her power, gives Sayaka the ability to afford to be a hero. Sabrina's abilities and goals offer Sayaka a way for her to reconcile her views of how the world should be (or how she should be able to act in it) and how it really is--she can acknowledge that the magical world is a very shitty place, but Sabrina offers both hope that it can get substantially better and a means to actively fight for/contribute to making that hope a reality. Oh yeah, and she facilitated healing Kyousuke's hand.

For Madoka, Sabrina showed up out of nowhere, became a friend who quickly started to mend bridges between Homura and everyone else, fought to keep everyone safe and mentally healthy, while at the same time respecting her and assuring her that she is a valuable and helpful person even without making a contract, just for being a good (normal) friend that kept them sane. Sabrina is helping Homura on many levels, but also helping to keep Madoka's friends happy and safe, reducing her own worries about the overall situation. On top of that, Sabrina actively keeps Madoka in the loop, helping her to feel like she's being included and that she's useful.

For Hitomi, Sabrina brought her into the loop (preventing her from drifting apart from the rest of her friends...or worse) regarding magic, allowing her to be a normal, supportive friend to Sayaka (and Madoka, obviously).

For Nagisa, Sabrina showed up out of nowhere when she was completely distraught and alone after her mother's death, comforting her and taking care of her while challenging anyone who marginalized her suffering. She stayed in touch, being her friend and surrogate big sister, as well as connecting her to a bunch of other nice, friendly girls that helped her feel happier and less lonely.

For Oriko and Kirika, Sabrina was a driving force behind her, Mami, and Homura closely allying together to oppose them, while at the same time a moderating force for taking them down without killing them and giving Homura the assurance that they would no longer pose an active threat. Sabrina is there to curb Oriko's extremist and fatalist tendencies, while at the same time mollifying Kirika's single-issue-obsession (by keeping Oriko safe and healthy). To the point that both of them were willing to help out in a war--Kirika even coming along directly to help fight, with Homura actually being okay with that (remarkable in itself, really).

For Masami and Hiroko, the former was healed and a dual Witchout prevented thanks to Sabrina's intervention.

For the University Group, they were in dire straits and forced to fight for their very lives against a faction that outnumbered and outgunned them (and had tons of Grief Seeds, compared to barely having any for themselves)--and then Sabrina arrives in spectacular (and terrifying) fashion with the cavalry (because, let's face it, Mami and Kirika by themselves make a terrifying team), removes the immediate threat of Seed starvation, negotiates a cease-fire, and then, when the cease-fire falls through, takes their side with a hard-carry performance, effectively dictating terms that end the conflict for good.

I wonder how Madoka will react when we tell her, one day in the future, that Sabrina came into existence because of her own (past-self's) Wish. And then call her "mom".

SaltyWaffles said:

I wonder how Madoka will react when we tell her, one day in the future, that Sabrina came into existence because of her own (past-self's) Wish. And then call her "mom".

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"... Did I do good?"

*Lowers head for headpats*

Onmur said:

Also, plan ask Hitomi/Shin for help getting reservations at a nice restaurant tomorrow night?

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Even with Hitomi/Shin's social status, I don't think a reservation's gonna be possible (within reasonable means), since the restaurant's gonna have less than 12 hours notice, assuming they open at 10 Am or thereabouts.

Also, I think we're burning some of Shin's goodwill with a somewhat trivial request. We've done a lot for her nephew, yes, but we knew him for less than two weeks.

Lastly, there's a non-zero chance that we might not make it back by dinner tomorrow night.

Getting a table at an exclusive restaurant on short notice is something of an iconic way for rich people to show off how much clout they have. (Although I don't know if that's a trope in Japan like it is in America.) And Hitomi was able to obtain an apartment for Sayaka's family on equally short notice, and would likely support the idea of making a grand romantic gesture, although asking might be a bit presumptuous. Remember, the last time we saw her was during the Orikobomb. Now might not be a good time to ask for expensive favors.

Asking Shin would definitely be presumptuous, and would also raise the question of how we could afford it. We can't exactly tell him we looted some yakuza gold.

Honestly, Mami would probably appreciate just being taken out someplace nice, rather than it having to be something showy like "the most expensive restaurant in town." When it comes to grand romantic gestures, it's hard to top the fact that Sabrina can fly them into space.

I think Mami would simply appreciate spending time with us, wherever we go and whatever we do. We don't need to feel pressured to impress her. As long as we share nice experiences with her, we're OK.

Hey, if "A Date on the Moon" plans finally get put in motion, who am I to object to that?

The Narrator said:

Asking Shin would definitely be presumptuous, and would also raise the question of how we could afford it. We can't exactly tell him we looted some yakuza gold.

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We could tell him we definitely will explain later...

... And explain when we finally get all adults together and explain megucadom.

By the way, we should contact the other Potentials (and maybe their best friends) around the city before that. I think the more reasonable people we might be able to get together in a big meguca support group, the better.

Let's say, I'm not sure about inviting Ono's mom to the support group. It's be Ono's call, and a delicate situation besides.

Man, so many votes.

Some things I'd still like to discuss. Not in a rush to make a decision. Will post something longer when I have time.

Alternatively, we could create a Barrier with an even fancier restauraunt than the fanciest restauraunt in town.

Too bad that would be breaking our word and it would be screaming "Witch" at her the entire time. Not to mention that we'd have to find a way to get sufficiently fancy food and have them served by a team of construct-staff.

On the other hand, money talks. We could probably outright buy a table somewhere if we used the briefcase technique/gold bar technique.

Actually, we could probably pull off the "Yakuza Princess" technique. Use Witchy Grief to give ourself a pack of bodyguards and demand a table.

Might be a bit off-putting for Mami, though.

How about we just find somewhere reasonably fancy and take Mami there instead?

We're going to top whatever we do here with Paris and Luna anyway.

Mami doesn't strike me as the sort to be impressed by someone spending a lot of money on her, anyway. Effort and thoughtfulness seem more likely to move her.

Well, we still should totally ask, say, Hitomi and Madoka... Maybe Junko?

What better way to find out which places we could dine at tomorrow?

The Narrator said:

Mami doesn't strike me as the sort to be impressed by someone spending a lot of money on her, anyway. Effort and thoughtfulness seem more likely to move her.

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Mami's also a teenaged girl who has likely never been taken out for dinner at a fancy place. Don't you think she'd like that?

I think what truly matters is being there with her and for her.

Whether we end up eating at a nice restaurant, or watching a movie, or taking a stroll at the park, or shopping at a mall, or flying above Mitakihara, or doing magic Science, etc.

Onmur said:

Mami's also a teenaged girl who has likely never been taken out for dinner at a fancy place. Don't you think she'd like that?

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Dinner out at a nice place? Sure. At a place so exclusive that Sabrina has to call in a favor from a rich friend to get a table? Not so much.

The Narrator said:

Dinner out at a nice place? Sure. At a place so exclusive that Sabrina has to call in a favor from a rich friend to get a table? Not so much.

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Well, maybe we shouldn't go that far...

Yet.

We need to raise Mami's expectations over time.

UbeOne said:

I think what truly matters is being there with her and for her.

Whether we end up eating at a nice restaurant, or watching a movie, or taking a stroll at the park, or shopping at a mall, or flying above Mitakihara, or doing magic Science, etc.

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Still, I want this to be more memorable than what we usually do, specially if we go ahead with the 'promise to make it up to her' line.

Do hang-gliding with her?

Or go to the nearest beach?

UbeOne said:

Do hang-gliding with her?

Or go to the nearest beach?

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We could just have our dinner on a Grief platform hovering over Mitakihara.

Prepare the dishes beforehand, do something about the wind, get Madoka and Homura to play the part of maids...

Another option is the nearest amusement park.

Basically, I'm thinking we should go with a place just nice enough that Sabrina and Mami will be expected to dress up a bit. I think Mami might enjoy a chance to wear out one of the nice dresses that she probably never gets to use, and to see Sabrina in a pantsuit. Past that point, I think we get diminishing returns. (And eventually we'd hit a point where Mami might start thinking that she doesn't have any dresses nice enough for the place.)

Amusement park would be better for a weekend, when they'd have more time.


EDIT: Shit, I forgot to mention: you know who probably knows a number of nice restaurants? Oriko. She comes from money.

UbeOne said:

Another option is the nearest amusement park.

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We know there is one because we've asked, but haven't gone there yet...



Best present would be getting Kyouko to come back and become friends again.

BEST PRESENT would be getting all of Mami's kouhais to celebrate her birthday when it comes around?!

EDIT: Note: Ask everyone (except Madoka) when their birthdays are.

... Maybe don't ask Homura either. Sensitive topic? Maybe we can check her records.

Also, we still need to remember and get back to Kyouko about Sayatraining.

On the note from a few things a few pages back (Madokami this thread moves fast):

Well, I don't think Michru was ever Mami's Kouhai. She might have been, since Michru was the one who made all the attack names (and translated them to itallian), and apparently had some abilities similar to her, but the Meeting Mami panel looks like Mami just saves Michru coincidentally and Kyubey picks everything up from there. I think it is more likely that she is just a big fan of Mami.

Even if she did train under Mami, they clearly didn't part under bad circumstances since there is zero resentment for anyone in the Michru flashbacks (hell, she didn't even seem angry at Kyubey). So, it could have been a separation entirely for practical purposes.

On the Saints Themselves: While in the Kasumi Manga the Saints were starting to drift apart into separate groups, That was mostly because of Michru's death hitting them all differently, and they each clung to separate things that naturally drifted them apart (Umiko and Karuo were basically girlfriends at time, Saki and Mirai fell into a big sister/little sister dynamic, Satome had a full time job watching over the failed psuedo-witch homicidal clones which fucked her empathy up, and Niko was throwing her self into trying to revive Michru with SCIENCE!). But since Michru is still alive to hold the team together, the team might want to wait to include everyone before making any big decisions.

Also, While most of the Kasumi project depended on Niko's hax clone powers and Umiko's memory hax, every member's magic would be useful to us in some way. Mirai and Satome will probably understand the link between Soul Gem and the Body the best since Mirai has her Teddy Bear Minion powers that use a similar connection, and Satome's communication powers can help facilitate it. Saki is a bit of an all rounder, and the best at pulling the Saints together to focus on a single objective, and I bet her power was the one used to preserve bits of dead witch to toss into the mix (since they should really just fade with the barrier, but since her wish was to preserve her cousin's flower...). Karuo is the only one who is just kinda 'eh' in the long run, but still she is a solid Witch Hunter and has a girlfriend with broken AF powers.

Approaching them, It is clear we want to see Michru first (not only is she the leader, she is the one in danger of self-destructing), it might not be possible since Michru might still go to school (she actually seems the type to do so), and thus be unavailable. That said, Niko is a Full Time Magical Girl since she left a clone to take her place in life, so is always available, and Umiko is a famous author... somehow. so also can act as a full time Magical Girl. The rest are a toss up really, since they do have the means to live on their own, but might opt to go to school anyways.

BlackoutSampler said:

I don't think Michru was ever Mami's Kouhai. She might have been, since Michru was the one who made all the attack names (and translated them to itallian), and apparently had some abilities similar to her, but the Meeting Mami panel looks like Mami just saves Michru coincidentally and Kyubey picks everything up from there. I think it is more likely that she is just a big fan of Mami.

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That's correct... for Puella Magi Kasumi Magica canon.

Firnagzen has made clear that he's only roughly following PMKM canon, and in past PMAS updates, Mami has said that Kazusa was her student in the past.

Firnagzen said:

Welcome back," Mami says with a smile, interlacing your fingers together. "Ah, I wasn't sure how long you'd be gone, so I asked about Asunaro for you, um..."

"Yes, one of Mami's old students is there. Kazusa Michiru. She has a group, the... Pleiades Saints," Nadia says with a snap of her fingers.

You bite your lip, trying to decide how to delicately ask about Michiru's vital status. You've misstepped enough for an entire day, and you don't particularly feel like asking if Mami's ex-student is dead in front of her face, after all.

"That's- that's good," Mami says, a hitch in her voice. She squeezes your hand tightly, seeming to draw strength from you as she straightens. "I... I didn't ask before, but how is she? Is she doing well?"

Nadia makes an amused face. "She has her students naming their attacks, fimti?" she says. "I think she enjoys her life."

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So... you're right, but not for this timeline.