To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Tulsa Oklahoma
Well, better dealing with storm clouds than wall clouds.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
@OneirosTheWriter, BTW can you give us the exact location of Clover Outpost? I'm wondering if it would be worth it to build an outpost at Kappa Tau, or if Clover Outpost is already forward enough of a staging outpost.
This is still wrong too. Should be listed as "Unassigned".
Okay, this is crazy. Kahurangi got us a total of +6 war support in a single month.
Meanwhile, FDS Consular Team 3 would only increase war support by +2 per month.
Either Kahurangi is that overpowered, or the FDS consular teams are weaksauce.
I assume the trade-off is that Kahurangi's gains are random so they won't necessarily go where we most need them.
Also we can only have one of her. In theory we could keep recruiting internal teams.
Plus it makes sense that Kahurangi is OP. She had one of the longest ever tenures as Admiral, and she's weathered crises too, so she knows what kind of things to say. I would be surprised if there is a single person in the Federation who is so widely well regarded and who has the experience and skills to back that regard.
Plus it makes sense that Kahurangi is OP. She had one of the longest ever tenures as Admiral, and she's weathered crises too, so she knows what kind of things to say. I would be surprised if there is a single person in the Federation who is so widely well regarded and who has the experience and skills to back that regard.
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- Location
- Australia
How much has FDS increased affiliate score in the last decade vs Starfleet?
If anything the recent FDS has been performing way above par.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Well I just hope Kahurangi's OP-ness is not a mistake 
Just PM him. Most guaranteed way of getting the info you need.
Well, from a ship design perspective, the Oberth is an impossible ship already for its supposed 150kt tonnage and 2260s technology.
Could simply be a case of the TBG Oberth just being different from canon - or alternatively, it could be one of the larger speculated canon sizes. While the ship is iconic enough that its shape and model shouldn't be different in TBG, its internal schematics could easily be tweaked around.
May not work out like that - although the houses do have their own House Fleets, they are all levied to the Imperial Fleet as a unified force. In practice, if the Licori fleet command truly does supersede house loyalties, then we may encounter half of the Licori fleet in an all-out battle over Gammon, with the rest defending against the Ked Paddah or very lightly garrisoning other major worlds.
Eaton could force such a battle and very likely win, but it's still a large gamble, and the Licori basically have the advantage of AOE attacks with their presumed superweapons (edit: even if these superweapons don't manifest as AOE attacks, they still will likely act as either some sort of force multiplier or major attritional factor).
Instead, Eaton could try forcing the Licori into a defeat in detail scenario with her 3-4 offensive task forces plus the Ked Paddah's own task forces. Ideally that means that when TF3 (C+S+H+L of around 200) finally does "knock the door to Gammon", they will see a defense amounting to less than 100 of C+S+H+L (including S in here, given this is the Licori we're talking about).
It's not fair to compare Starfleet and FDS at all here. FDS is supposed to take primary responsibility in diplomacy - they're called the Federation Diplomatic Service!
That our FYMs and other starships are getting us great first contacts and some +25 event successes is just the cherry on top. Keep in mind that all those diplo pushes we take in the snakepit are also mostly FDS - they're Starfleet convincing FDS (or the Council to order the FDS) to partake on more targeted external diplomacy ostensibly with some Starfleet ship support.
Just PM him. Most guaranteed way of getting the info you need.
Well, from a ship design perspective, the Oberth is an impossible ship already for its supposed 150kt tonnage and 2260s technology.
Could simply be a case of the TBG Oberth just being different from canon - or alternatively, it could be one of the larger speculated canon sizes. While the ship is iconic enough that its shape and model shouldn't be different in TBG, its internal schematics could easily be tweaked around.
May not work out like that - although the houses do have their own House Fleets, they are all levied to the Imperial Fleet as a unified force. In practice, if the Licori fleet command truly does supersede house loyalties, then we may encounter half of the Licori fleet in an all-out battle over Gammon, with the rest defending against the Ked Paddah or very lightly garrisoning other major worlds.
Eaton could force such a battle and very likely win, but it's still a large gamble, and the Licori basically have the advantage of AOE attacks with their presumed superweapons (edit: even if these superweapons don't manifest as AOE attacks, they still will likely act as either some sort of force multiplier or major attritional factor).
Instead, Eaton could try forcing the Licori into a defeat in detail scenario with her 3-4 offensive task forces plus the Ked Paddah's own task forces. Ideally that means that when TF3 (C+S+H+L of around 200) finally does "knock the door to Gammon", they will see a defense amounting to less than 100 of C+S+H+L (including S in here, given this is the Licori we're talking about).
It's not fair to compare Starfleet and FDS at all here. FDS is supposed to take primary responsibility in diplomacy - they're called the Federation Diplomatic Service!
That our FYMs and other starships are getting us great first contacts and some +25 event successes is just the cherry on top. Keep in mind that all those diplo pushes we take in the snakepit are also mostly FDS - they're Starfleet convincing FDS (or the Council to order the FDS) to partake on more targeted external diplomacy ostensibly with some Starfleet ship support.
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- Location
- Australia
See where Ulen Gao is? It's the bottom right corner of that subsector. 2B.9j.
Her results are randomised. This was a good result, but you can't be guaranteed that it will get you results better than the FDS each time. But when she's on song, there's only one KahurangiWell I just hope Kahurangi's OP-ness is not a mistake
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Thanks. Do you mean bottom right corner of subsector 2B, which is where Ulen Gao is? That is, somewhere close to the midpoint of a line drawn from Ulen Gao to Costaun?
The coordinates you just gave don't match that: 1B is one subsector down (rimward) of it, and 9j is way coreward of Dylaarian space.
pinging @Nix
Okay, regardless of which of these exact coordinates are correct, I do believe it would be worth it to build an outpost at Kappa Tau, if not just as a great fallback position, then as bait to lure the Licori fleets out.
I knew that but I discount possibility because the whole point of using TF1 and TF2 as blockers is to keep the entire Imperial Fleet from being able to rush to Gammon. They'd going to have only what they decided to garrison Gammon with in advance, and how could they have known to stack everything there?
The problem is, while it would be great to have an outpost there it would not be great to build an outpost there. Look at how close Kappa Tau is to Arcadian space. Imagine having to ward off opportunistic raiders looking to pick off our engineering ships for three entire months.
- Location
- Australia
Note the dot - I'm saying that if you put a grid inside 2B, it would be in the 9j part of that grid.
If the Acadians sortie to raid that's not really such a bad thing. They're outside their fixed defenses and can easily lose their ships if we detect them. I would consider a Kappa Tau outpost useful purely as bait.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
My point was that it's not just TF3 vs Kartonnen House Fleet that we have to be worried about here. That it can't be treated in a vacuum. It's all TF1+TF2+TF3 vs Gammon defenses + whatever forces the Licori will muster to send to reinforce Gammon. We'll just have to depend on Eaton adequately responding to the situation as it develops, whether Gammon has already been reinforced (and if their frigates gave them ample warning, very possible), or whether they're mustering such a reinforcement fleet. Further speculation on our part isn't that helpful.
Actually, no that's great for us. That's the whole point. I would rather distract Licori raiders with such juicy bait and prepare our defenses and ambushes accordingly, then let them concentrate more on probing closer to our worlds.
Oh, though without knowing how such an intra-subsector grid coordinate system works, that's not helpful - extrapolating from the current subsector grid coordinate system (higher number is coreward, higher lowercase letter is spinward), 9j could be top-left corner of a subsector. Now that you've clarified that it should be the bottom-right corner, it's the opposite of that within subsectors.
edit: typos
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
Using Kappa tau as bait could be useful. If we seeded it with minefields before starting construction of the outpost we might catch out a few overconfident raiders.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
[X][AMB] Conduct half-strength diplomatic push on Laio
[X][CON] Lobby to raise war support on Betazed (+2 war support per month for target)
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Kappa Tau> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Prepare components for 3 Outposts (3 Months) - You have 3 in stock
[X][DOC] Begin researching anti-convoy techniques (+1 to attempts to engage convoys within Licori space, 4 months)
Listening posts vs outposts: Not sure on the usefulness of listening posts and they take a full 5 months as opposed to the better-known benefits of outposts that take only 3 months to build. As stated in above posts, Kappa Tau serves double duty as a close fallback/staging position and a great bait for Arcadian raids or other attention (instead of Federation worlds, or just for further general distraction). The other option of New Seoul is still attractive, but I don't think it's as urgent, since it's now partially covered by nearby outposts at Onos, Gaen, and Claystock.
Anti-convoy tech doctrine vs "Border World Focus" doctrine: I'd love to get Border World Focus more quickly, but it provides no benefits for the Arcadian conflict (garrisons already stripped, combat cap irrelevant for next few years), and any useful-to-this-war T3 techs that depend on it very likely won't finish by the time the war is over.
Was tempted to get the heavy industry team working on a 1x3mt repair yard berth or shipyard berth (the latter only takes 1 more month and hopefully not much longer engineering time), but I want outposts at New Seoul, Kappa Tau, and maybe Costaun and Thunti (with Gaeni cooperation) and that's already 4 outposts when we only have components for 2 outposts in stock.
edit: grammar
[X][CON] Lobby to raise war support on Betazed (+2 war support per month for target)
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Kappa Tau> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Prepare components for 3 Outposts (3 Months) - You have 3 in stock
[X][DOC] Begin researching anti-convoy techniques (+1 to attempts to engage convoys within Licori space, 4 months)
Listening posts vs outposts: Not sure on the usefulness of listening posts and they take a full 5 months as opposed to the better-known benefits of outposts that take only 3 months to build. As stated in above posts, Kappa Tau serves double duty as a close fallback/staging position and a great bait for Arcadian raids or other attention (instead of Federation worlds, or just for further general distraction). The other option of New Seoul is still attractive, but I don't think it's as urgent, since it's now partially covered by nearby outposts at Onos, Gaen, and Claystock.
Anti-convoy tech doctrine vs "Border World Focus" doctrine: I'd love to get Border World Focus more quickly, but it provides no benefits for the Arcadian conflict (garrisons already stripped, combat cap irrelevant for next few years), and any useful-to-this-war T3 techs that depend on it very likely won't finish by the time the war is over.
Was tempted to get the heavy industry team working on a 1x3mt repair yard berth or shipyard berth (the latter only takes 1 more month and hopefully not much longer engineering time), but I want outposts at New Seoul, Kappa Tau, and maybe Costaun and Thunti (with Gaeni cooperation) and that's already 4 outposts when we only have components for 2 outposts in stock.
edit: grammar
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[X][AMB] Conduct half-strength diplomatic push on Laio
[X][CON] Lobby to raise war support on Betazed (+2 war support per month for target)
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Kappa Tau> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Prepare components for 3 Outposts (3 Months) - You have 3 in stock
[X][DOC] Begin researching anti-convoy techniques (+1 to attempts to engage convoys within Licori space, 4 months)
[X][CON] Lobby to raise war support on Betazed (+2 war support per month for target)
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Kappa Tau> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Prepare components for 3 Outposts (3 Months) - You have 3 in stock
[X][DOC] Begin researching anti-convoy techniques (+1 to attempts to engage convoys within Licori space, 4 months)
[X][AMB] Conduct half-strength diplomatic push on Laio
[X][CON] Lobby to raise war support on Betazed (+2 war support per month for target)
[X][ENG] Build listening post builds in Subsector C1 (5 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Prepare components for 3 Outposts (3 Months) - You have 3 in stock
[X][DOC] Begin researching anti-convoy techniques (+1 to attempts to engage convoys within Licori space, 4 months)
[X][CON] Lobby to raise war support on Betazed (+2 war support per month for target)
[X][ENG] Build listening post builds in Subsector C1 (5 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Prepare components for 3 Outposts (3 Months) - You have 3 in stock
[X][DOC] Begin researching anti-convoy techniques (+1 to attempts to engage convoys within Licori space, 4 months)
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We still have to guard our worlds too because the Licori get to decide where they go and what targets they're going after. TF4 isn't so large that I want to lock them down trying to cover a span of space all the way from Kappa Tau to Betazed. I think your plan traps us, not them. We have to guard the Kappa Tau base because if we don't, they raid it, and that means a fleet stretched thin and less able to guard the homeworlds.
@Jrin and @SynchronizedWritersBlock please reconsider... I think lbmaian's plan is going to leave us defensively over-extended and very possibly get our engineering ships blown up.
Any force that comes out gets hammered by one of our three combat TFs which are operating in this very area. If we lose an engineering ship or an entire outpost for the opportunity to kill a third of the opposing fleet away from their defensive works, that's exactly the kind of opportunity we're trying to create.
Fallenblades643
Seeker of the Divine Taste
I purpose we take Suvek's warp core gut the safeties, overload it, and then shove it down the crystal monsters throat. We do it right, we could probably hit it with something like a dimensional shear.
Then fall on it with like 3 Excellsiors, at least.
Really, its just shameful that our first loss of this war isn't even from enemy action, but rather from so hooped up space abomination.
[X][AMB] Conduct half-strength diplomatic push on Laio
[X][CON] Lobby to raise war support on Betazed (+2 war support per month for target)
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Kappa Tau> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Prepare components for 3 Outposts (3 Months) - You have 3 in stock
[X][DOC] Begin researching anti-convoy techniques (+1 to attempts to engage convoys within Licori space, 4 months)
Take my vote, because I'm actually around in time for once.
Then fall on it with like 3 Excellsiors, at least.
Really, its just shameful that our first loss of this war isn't even from enemy action, but rather from so hooped up space abomination.
[X][AMB] Conduct half-strength diplomatic push on Laio
[X][CON] Lobby to raise war support on Betazed (+2 war support per month for target)
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Kappa Tau> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Prepare components for 3 Outposts (3 Months) - You have 3 in stock
[X][DOC] Begin researching anti-convoy techniques (+1 to attempts to engage convoys within Licori space, 4 months)
Take my vote, because I'm actually around in time for once.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
I view the Kappa Tau outpost as a win-win.
If the outpost is attacked, we've successfully lured the enemy there, away from their own defenses. Regardless of whether they raid it or attack it in force, it's more advantageous to us both tactically and attritionally.
If the outpost is destroyed, at least it's not any colony or major world, where we could lose far more than an outpost or engineering ship. It would not be an expensive or critical loss.
If the outpost survives to completion, it provides improved sensor coverage and a better defensible position in case of tactical retreats.
Finally, it does not need to be heavily garrisoned, because even without TF4, there's a huge amount of friendly metal in the area, many of which should be prepared to ambush the enemy if they are lured there, and because losing Kappa Tau would not be a big deal.
If the outpost is attacked, we've successfully lured the enemy there, away from their own defenses. Regardless of whether they raid it or attack it in force, it's more advantageous to us both tactically and attritionally.
If the outpost is destroyed, at least it's not any colony or major world, where we could lose far more than an outpost or engineering ship. It would not be an expensive or critical loss.
If the outpost survives to completion, it provides improved sensor coverage and a better defensible position in case of tactical retreats.
Finally, it does not need to be heavily garrisoned, because even without TF4, there's a huge amount of friendly metal in the area, many of which should be prepared to ambush the enemy if they are lured there, and because losing Kappa Tau would not be a big deal.