Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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I really like Arthur and how he's changing the cult of Morr (at least in Ostland). Something like that is badly needed in the world of Warhammer. I'm a sucker for gods of death being comforting, I love Death from the Discworld too
 
She is not, atm, but that will indeed be something to swiftly rectify.

Gokairanger said:
Did I get it right? Did I get it wrong? Am I getting closer to the answer?
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You're in the realm of it, yeah. Souls are powerful, solid yet ephemeral things, all potent in their own ways but some a bit more than others. There are simply too many different daemons, Gods, sorcerers, etc. saying things along the line of 'I'll tear your soul strip by strip' or 'I'll slowly eat your soul for a thousand years' etc. for it to be wrong to say that souls are in fact somewhat divisible. And if you can divide something, you can add it back together. Daemons getting attached like leeches to souls for daemonhosts or consuming them and replacing them, etc.

Gazul's an Ancestor God, his domain is the Underearth and dwarf souls and death, etc. so it's literally the MOST his purview to mess about with that sort of thing.
 
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Gokairanger said:
.... Okay, if I understand this correctly, Only a piece of Frederick's Soul remained after the Changeling tore out his heart and sacrificed him, So Gazul..... Stitched? Together? Pieces of already dead Dwarf Souls to Frederick's Soul so that he could return to something resembling him Was it before? Or is it something like... ehhhhhhh.... An empty vessel whose core is the only piece of Frederick's Soul left, And everything around it is pieces of dead dwarves?

So that makes Frederick's Soul......Mostly Dwarf then?

Did I get it right? Did I get it wrong? Am I getting closer to the answer?
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Something like that.

torroar said:
This already came up IC. His body and soul were starting to fracture and spazz out by the time of Karak Ungor and were heading for disaster. Then he got stabilized by Sigmar, alloyed with Dwarf stability and soulstuff by Gazul, and had the absolutely nonfunctional/corrupt/unsalvagable bits torn out of him and sacrificed to Khorne.

Though that last bit was a bit of unintentional help on the Changeling's part. But then again, that's pretty Tzeentch to do three things when doing one thing and one of those things turns out to not be necessarily a good thing for Tzeentch. Which, in turn, is a good thing for Tzeentch. Cause Tzeentch.

And also, you appear to have missed the part where Shallyan priestesses are also regularly called in after the daily massacring of his body. So they're doing stuff as well with a deity who is, like, specifically geared as anti-Nurgle.
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torroar said:
Two things.

1. There is not 'another Dawi soul' inside Frederick's soul. There were references to alloys, creations, etc. in KU for a reason. Some of the old Kings of Karak Ungor who rest in the Underearth Realm of Gazul literally carved off portions of themselves which were, in turn, forged/smelted/alloyed into Frederick's soul by the Ancestor God's influence and power over such things. It's not a case of just having some dwarf pop out of the soul or whatever, it's fully and inextricably integrated on a fundamental level to the point that there is no separation possible because there's nothing to separate.
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torroar said:
Gazul is not the greatest craftsman amongst all the Ancestor Gods, it is true. But, at the same time, he is an Ancestor God nonetheless. One of the pinnacles of all their kind. And he, specifically, is the Protector of the Dead, first to venerate the living and the dead, and ponderer of mortality and the mysteries therein even in the time that all the Ancestor Gods walked the world openly. Canon wobbles on his involvement in the runes and all that, but that isn't the point. The point is that he pondered souls and their passage through the world, on and off the mortal coil more than any other. Consider, then, what the pondering of an Ancestor God might result in compared to the idle musings of a mere mortal. Sigmar's golden touch was upon Frederick's soul as well, and more was yet bound in iron and will from a realm perhaps adjacent but definitely distinct from the Glittering Realm of Thungni's own contemplations. There was taint, corruption, and influence both positive and negative woven and laid deep by the devoted of other faiths. In one case, one believed the God of Murder superior to devote oneself to compared to the Dark Gods. Yes, a good deal was shorn away as an entity capable of casting such into the Realm of Chaos by their very nature attempted to deliver all of it, for soulstuff is currency and power in the warp, and yet like coins can be clipped, bent, forfeited, and stolen, perhaps even made false in certain interpretations.

But some remained, clad in black and gold and shot through with whispers of a Dove, the chime of a five-tined crown beneath the waves and in the stormy sky, and more.

Enough.

Gazul is not the greatest craftsman amongst all the Ancestor Gods, it is true. But, at the same time, he is an Ancestor God nonetheless.

And a dwarf besides, who would never countenance shoddy work.
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torroar said:
It goes a bit beyond mere mundane pain tolerance, admittedly. If we think of the pain being delivered with magical and daemonic poison aid to assault the soul as much as the body as pure heat coming from a powerful generator (Alyssa) and the recipients as heat sinks (Frederick and Natasha), it would be like the original intention of the design is to forcefully overheat and explode the former, only to find out that it's actually part of a duo networked with one another. And the second one is hyper cooled. Additionally, Frederick quite literally doesn't have a mundane human soul anymore, he's savagely nearly had his ripped out himself entirely and had a good tipping past majority chunk torn out before metaphysically having the Ancestor God Gazul reinforce the existing remaining structure with high quality noble dwarf soul contributions and then firming it up afterwards, with what didn't get ripped out being touched on by Sigmar Himself to the point of the latter permanently altering Frederick's body. Natasha, on the other hand, has been directly channeled through by the Ancient Widow herself, an experience that literally changed her body and soul as well. She got rather painfully...hmm, I suppose one way to say it is stretched, permanently so, by a power so much greater than herself acting through her. Expanded? Scaled up? Definitively altered, yes.

And the two of them have entwined their souls at the deepest possible level, to the point that, yes, in helping Frederick, Natasha is also suffering aftershocks of the daemonic soul-venom crafted of a joining between Nurgle and Slaanesh, but in holding tight to one another they are reinforcing the other, reassuring the other, and gritting their teeth together and in turn, greatly enraging their enemy. It's not sustainable in the longer term, not truly, but for now, they're managing to hold on.
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torroar said:
It's been a bit, so I don't mind making it more clear again, but what occurred in Karak Ungor, stripping out anything but the facts, is that Frederick's soul was splintering into pieces due to the various influences grinding against one another. He was literally falling to Chaos a bit here and there, in different directions. He'd pissed off the Chaos Gods, and they were taking an opportunity to mess with him. Plus some of his 'well-meaning' bodyguard who worshipped Khaine threw that hat into the ring. Then all the other Gods. Kragg made him last longer, stabilized things a smidge with his runes, but it wasn't a perfect solution. Gazul specifically notes that it's a 'crude' solution that he came up with, but due to his actual ability to influence things being notable what with KU being the first major hold to fall in the Goblin Wars, the sheer amount of death, he was able to do it. Crude for an Ancestor God who specifically has a domain regarding souls and the dead, but still. Put rather coldly, Frederick was a tool, an asset, something which could be used to aid the dwarfs. Again, utilizing the locale and its significance, portions of extremely sturdy souls, i.e. dwarf souls resting in that weird realm that Gazul rules over, donated portions of their strength (and when you're like that, that literally means part of yourself) to basically cement in the gaps and stabilize things. This carried its own things with it into Frederick, one of which happened to turn out to be fluency with Khazalid with a northern royal accent befitting a former noble of Karak Ungor. As I also stated later on, the rolls made on drinking Gazul's Brew was basically the 'infusion' portion of that, while also temporarily conveying some of Gazul's authority onto Frederick despite, you know, dwarf/human differences. The lower number resulted basically in fully internal stuff, whereas a higher roll would have included internal and notable external stuff. It wasn't so much a case of one result being overly superior compared to the other, just...different, you know?

Then Frederick had his soul ripped out and sacrificed to Chaos, except the Changeling unexpectedly couldn't do it all the way because a black-armored Ancestor God reached out and said 'No', basically tugging on those sacrificed and melded portions, which affected the whole soul in a sort of alloy fashion before they could be cast away into the Realm of Chaos. There was just enough to be re-ignited like pouring a smidge of Godly alcohol onto a few embers to make it start burning properly again. In the time since, Frederick has had meetings with the Priests of Gazul and Morr and others besides, and all of them have generally agreed that as a result of what happened in KU, Frederick's soul was certainly altered, changed, but it is also stabilized and solid, without the splintering and breaking of before. It has, steadily, though it's a crude way to say it, 'regrown' or what have you as a result of continuing to live and do things, magic, other stuff, etc. It's a fully realized, distinct thing. But Gazul's authority over Frederick's soul was only ever temporary, and those portions are no longer 'portions' insomuch that you can't really declare that portions of a good mole can be separated out. If an enemy were to capture Frederick, drain his soul, and push that soul through the finest sieve, it would still just be the ground up soul of one individual.

Make sense?
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torroar said:
Mmm, things like the repeated 'drums in the deeps' thing are generally code for 'hey, parts of you that are more dwarf than before are reacting', and in that specific case, Bittersteel's absolutely wretched abuse of the Slayer Cult for her own monetary gain pissed off Frederick, and not just Frederick. It is also noted in that scene that a certain group of mercenaries was nearby, specifically the ones that were not-so-secretly Gazul priests, and that brought a bit of influence into the picture. Ordinarily, the Ancestor Gods are not quite the same thing as regular Gods, there are blessings, and prayers, and so on, but there aren't actually, generally, the same equivalent to 'Divine Lores' you know? You don't have Priests of Grimnir calling down giant spectral axes from the heavens like Priests of Sigmar can call down holy comets of light, yeah? The one exception to this, I'd argue, is Gazul. He is not quite on the same level as the others, not in terms of power, but like...horizontally halfway into other stuff as well. He is distinct in that he was born clanless, and remains so now. Dwarf souls are known to go to the Underearth, which isn't quite the same thing as Morr's Realm and so on. But it is, indeed, something more, hmm, ephemeral than the surety of rock, stone, and axes. They can even come back, sometimes, in areas of sufficient tragedy, for a time at least. But to drill down to your question directly, Gazul didn't say anything. Frederick did. He just happened to be speaking very hard with part of his soul more dominant than usual out of sheer outrage at what he was seeing. His soul which was directly altered by drinking of Gazul's Brew.
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torroar said:
Weirdly enough, that doesn't even necessarily fits with, like, the front page map of Ostland. There's a huge gap between Salkalten and the forests to the south, has a large trade route separating them as well. But that map has has the Forest of Shadows riiiiight there. So like...huh? Just one of those Warhammer things, I guess. Where did you find that map, anyhow?
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According to an image search, it isn't GW canon but something someone made and posted it to reddit, https://www.reddit.com/r/warhammerf...kek/map_over_salkalten_costal_city_in_ostland, so no need to worry about it.

Still well done in general, but doesn't reflect what we made in quest nor its current state.
 
Sorry for being off topic but I just asked torroar a bunch of different questions and he gave quite insightful answers. Sharing them for others too. I don't think any of it was spoilers, I will be putting it so post wouldn't get too long.

I'd note that the amulet is far less potent than what Sunweaver created, for one thing. But another part of the wooden armor of the Asrai/Eonir is that it is forged/sung out of their literally that much more magically potent trees. Which requires a lot of work, time, and built up relationships with said trees by the elves. Usually they don't even ever take cuttings from them, only gather up branches or other fallen wood, when not singing the wood out for themselves. Jade Wizards could try and do an approximation, but it could end up being very time consuming and expensive besides to try and come close to what Asrai/Eonir have. Not impossible, but still. Also, the Asrai/Eonir are also capable of using metal, they have no such compulsions against them, so...yeah. Trying to create better armors is possible, maybe, but you might as well also ask the Amber Wizards to try and enchant the hide and leather armor that Taalites wear to harden/strengthen them as well. Also possible, but also time consuming, and you're liable to run into basically miniscule cottage industry work for it, because it's not like the Cult of Taal has a stupendous amount of money to purchase time/materials/etc.
It was their Army of Ostland equivalent, yes. They sent their best, as befitting escort and command by the Glade Lord/Queen of Laurelorn
Certainly possible, but you do have significant aid from Jade Wizards and also the Shallyans already in Salkalten. You don't have as many fully seconded Shallyan aid to your armies, but the significant donations and patronage to the Cult ensures that most of Ostland has a good quantity and quality of Shallyans than there otherwise would be, able to come over and offer aid swiftly.
The thing about that is that the Bull Warriors don't really care about what anyone else thinks of them. They're the premier Knightly Order of Ostland, they don't really care to expand beyond it like how the White Wolves go wherever Ulric's faithful might need them, or other non-secular Orders. Nor are they desirous to expand their prestige and numbers outside of Ostland like other secular orders. As far as the BW are concerned, at least, they might at some point in the future ride out on campaign or secondment to allies to show their glory, but being in Ostland is their return point. Stirland is quite old-fashioned - literally, it's in their culture notes - so they're not liable to be super excited about a Knightly Order breaking with tradition.
After a certain point, a lot of people occasionally poke at and meddle in other province's affairs, it's just a matter of when and how much. The majority of Marienburg's merchant houses are against anything that would cut down on economic dominance. People coming up in Marienburg...are also liable to be against losing economic dominance because it does in turn weaken Marienburg and Westerland. So after a certain point Marienburgers aren't going to want to get help from Ostland. You're effectively aiming to permanently carve off the northern sweep of their entire portfolio, that's not something they'll be eager to get down with. People who focus elsewhere are more okay with it, but there are knock-on effects to consider as well with Marienburg having less northern economic power which by the nature of the interconnectivity of economies means some problems at minimum for others.
It's technically possible, sure, but a lot of it was veeery non-Sigmar beloved sorts of stuff, lots of what we IRL would consider strange pagan rituals and the like. He specifically had to work very carefully to sell it to his people as well, because it was entirely built around fertility rituals and prayers, to rapidly rebuild his population and significantly expand families. It was a mixture of Diplomatic/Stewardship set up plus the Piety actions, also getting Rhyan and Shallyan support for the subsequent mass-birthing.
Another pure-women Ulrican temple is certainly feasible, but so would just building, you know, another major Ulrican temple. So that's something to consider too. Especially as you have a sliver of Ulric's Flame burning in the province now.
They don't have any replacements for 'em atm. You could try and gift them, but some of them were custom non-greatship ships. It also does depend on Magdha's replacement.
Not suuuuper likely, given that the Horned Rat Himself fully smacked down the skaven and said 'stop that shit' because of how little they were getting done in the civil war. Enough to cow all the clans wholly. Possible, but not super likely. You'd more likely have a bunch of miniature clan civil-wars over who becomes the next rep to the Council of 13 rather than the Council simply ceasing in function.
 
torroar said:
She is not, atm, but that will indeed be something to swiftly rectify.
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Her people would certanly feel relief knowing and seeing that Von Sternecks will move on. As a bloodline and as a power that holds them together.
Power of a symbol is not something that can be overstated. Sure Freddy and imperium may do well. But Annalise and Von Sternecks are HERE for them . Local hero may be 'lesser' than hero of the land but their presence alone is often worth moving forward.
Plus, the family could use some life added into it.

Not to mention all the possible benefits comming from new connection. For example a noble form Ferlangen would ease logistics via Province main route, helping with matterials and other resources of 'central' Ostland.
But of course we all know that.

I just like the message of rebirth it would carry.
Hopefully Freddy gets to attend.
 
torroar said:
2. Arthur was super busy with the aftermath of the fighting, and in one sense, having one of the highest noble blood in the province aka a Hohenzollern reporting to you directly is a signal of honor and respect. One of the daughters of the Steel Bull personally came to pay her respects. Is, you know, a way you could take it. If you wanted to.
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That's how I imagine she thought of it.

"I shouldn't go, but I should, so I have to, so they can see why I shouldn't have, and why I did anyway."

Massgamer said:
According to an image search, it isn't GW canon but something someone made and posted it to reddit,
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Whoops!
 
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torroar said:
She is not, atm, but that will indeed be something to swiftly rectify.
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Hmmm... I wonder if we have any kids of the right age. Maybe Logan? No, wait, we've been shipping him with every woman he's spoken to down south. This requires more thought

Knightperson said:
That's how I imagine she thought of it.



"I shouldn't go, but I should, so I have to, so they can see why I shouldn't have, and why I did anyway."
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More along the lines of

"Going to speak to her about this is the logical thing from what I know of politics and the social hierarchy. She's crying. I don't know what to say when she's crying. Now she's crying harder, that was obviously the wrong thing to say. I'm going to leave and tell my brother to come and talk to her when he's free."
 
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Bring harmony to the Old World with the armies of Grand Cathay - Warhammer Community

Fight under the banner of the Celestial Dragon Emperor.
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As was expected after TWW 3, Cathay is getting actual tabletop models, only surprised it didn't happen sooner. Been pointed out that having the Dragon in charge of the walls be the one to lead an expedition feels kinda dumb though.

That aside, obligatory comment on how we must now have Princess Ann lead an expedition so she can somehow meet Freddy.
 
On the one hand, sure I guess it make sense. But on the other, they're really backfilling the time before Magnus here with this kind of thing. It's the nature of an expanding universe and retcons and the like, but you'd think that some of the people in 2520s would be like 'boy howdy remember that time fuckin' transforming dragon people showed up during the Era of Three Emperors/Anarchy?' Sure, there's the Transformation of Kadon, but that's a rare and powerful spell, and also the dragon-y bit is very distinct from Old World dragons.

Also yeah why would you send Miao Ying?

This is the perfect time to introduce one of the other remaining Dragon Siblings. You literally have a naval one, why not have her show up as part of a trade fleet or something?

watcheye456 said:
I want to see Snow leopards used as mounts by Kislev...
They are cool and remind me of WoW characters. Also fits in with general aestetics...
Man, am I feeling odd.
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I mean, they're technically big enough? But way more bobbly wobbly than even a bear, I would think. The panthers of the NE do function well enough for them, sure, but the snow leopards of Warhammer are like, literally icy and cold. So it'd likely be mostly only a Widow Priestess mount.
 
torroar said:
I mean, they're technically big enough? But way more bobbly wobbly than even a bear, I would think. The panthers of the NE do function well enough for them, sure, but the snow leopards of Warhammer are like, literally icy and cold. So it'd likely be mostly only a Widow Priestess mount.
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Makes sense that, besides bears since that is under another god's domain, that most of the magical mounts in Kislev would only be fit for Ice Witches/Widow Priestesses to ride.

After all, one of Freddy's daughters was the only one to tame a Thundertusk.
 
torroar said:
On the one hand, sure I guess it make sense. But on the other, they're really backfilling the time before Magnus here with this kind of thing. It's the nature of an expanding universe and retcons and the like, but you'd think that some of the people in 2520s would be like 'boy howdy remember that time fuckin' transforming dragon people showed up during the Era of Three Emperors/Anarchy?' Sure, there's the Transformation of Kadon, but that's a rare and powerful spell, and also the dragon-y bit is very distinct from Old World dragons.

Also yeah why would you send Miao Ying?

This is the perfect time to introduce one of the other remaining Dragon Siblings. You literally have a naval one, why not have her show up as part of a trade fleet or something?
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Nature of the business, sort of. Same reason The Force Awakens was so close to A New Hope; when you're introducing a potential new revenue stream that involves a big initial outlay, sticking to something familiar for your first product helps the first buy-ins - and Miao Ying's been reasonably popular among the fanbase since her first appearances.

And eh, could be worse picks. 😋
 
Is it too meta to know what happened to the astromancer that went with Logan, Regina, and Genevieve into the Quiet Whaagh warcamp? Did she stay a squib, or did the Colleges manage to change her back?
 
There is a particularly put out squiggly beast within the halls of the Everpeak at the moment. A very unfortunate creature, but having barely escaped from the warcamp and the mental domination and forged connection of Wurrzag before it could solidify, and with the aid of some of the most powerful wizards alive, a distinctly human intelligence has re-emerged within the creature's eyes. All the more disturbingly powerful the shamans of the WAAAGH!!! must be that the creature has as of yet not been returned to another form.
 
Eh, it was effectively very strongly hinted at, turning opposing wizards into squiggly beasts is literally his personal special spell. Not to say that other people haven't been turned into squigs before by WAAAAGH!!! energies and shamans, but 'squiggly beast' is very specific wording.
 
torroar said:
Eh, it was effectively very strongly hinted at, turning opposing wizards into squiggly beasts is literally his personal special spell. Not to say that other people haven't been turned into squigs before by WAAAAGH!!! energies and shamans, but 'squiggly beast' is very specific wording.
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Important question! With the Quiet WAAAGH!!! being what it is... is Wurzag still dancin?
 
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