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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
WHEREVER YOU FIND DA MEKANISMS OF OPPRESSION, SO TOO WILL YOU FIND DA REVOLUSHUNARY CELLS OF THE GRK. WE'Z ALL GREEN!
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So this is what Sportacus is part of.

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Da Cage Breakaz

Da Cage Breakaz is a minor Greenskins faction in Immortal Empires. Like the Chaos Dwarfs, the Dark Elves sometimes take Greenskins as slaves, and like the Chaos Dwarfs, it has sometimes backfired spectacularly. Violent and largely impervious to pain, Orcs are hard to control even by their own...
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Chlof said:
Not very subtle, is he?
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"How's it hanging, fellow greenskins? Have you heard of the hip new god, Hashut?"

"Iz that stunty wearin' green paint? What's 'e on about?"

" 'E's got proppa teeth at least, but we should still give 'Im a good thumpin'. Oi! Gork an' Mork are the only gods a proppa git needs, not some stunty hoozit!"

"...But what if he was green?"

"We're listenin'..."
 
Boney said:
The Beastmen that aren't capable of it would get trivially outcompeted by the Beastmen that are. Metallurgy doesn't care about how pure your devotion to Chaos is, if you want to arm your entire army with steel and clad your elites in it, you gotta either know what blacksmithing is or be on good terms with someone who does. The central dichotomy of the Beastmen is that their self-conception of pure wild and savagery that they believe makes them truer children of Chaos than the Norscans and Kurgans and the like, is ideologically incompatible with steel and carpentry and fletching and alcohol and writing and mythology and castes and hierarchy. It doesn't matter how many times the writers throw the word 'squalid' in when describing a civilization, that is still a civilization.
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I think this runs into the problem of the writers not understanding or bothering to pay any mind towards logistics. How do beastmen that hate civilization, have no cities or towns, and live in forests, support a large population at all? Sure, they can hunt beasts, but that cannot even come remotely close to sustaining a large population for very long, let alone at all.

If they're dominant in forests, then they should logically be expanding their population to as large as the wildlife of the forest can sustain, but that obviously isn't the case because the Empire's forests are still bountiful with game to hunt and fruit to forage and natural ecosystems to flourish. This suggests that beastmen populations are a lot more limited. Combine that with the industry and logistics required to field all of their warriors with metal weapons, and it feels like beastman armies should be either rare or pretty limited in size. While greenskins get to cheat with population logistics by apparently not needing to eat anything, the beastmen get no such cheats. The skaven...well, even with black goo, the amount of food they'd need to feed their ridiculous population that also has ridiculous population growth...while being almost entirely underground and in tunnels...is immense.

If the beastmen are regularly warring against each other, well, that makes a lot of sense. Not nearly enough food to go around, little social cohesion, rule of the strongest encouraging war as a means of settling differences or competing with each other. Of course, that would make beastman armies attacking the Empire a rare occurrence, but limited bands of beastmen raiding for food and loot a lot more common.
 
Boney said:
The Spider-God is mentioned only a few times, and most theorize that it's either Gork or Mork pretending to be a spider, or some Chaos God trying to suborn the greenskins.
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You'd think that given the size and potential age of arachnaroks, some would realize that it might just be a really big fucking spider, but then again, people that see Black pit probably never get to talk of it to anyone again.
 
pucflek said:
You'd think that given the size and potential age of arachnaroks, some would realize that it might just be a really big fucking spider, but then again, people that see Black pit probably never get to talk of it to anyone again.
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Something becoming a God entirely by dint of size and age is a horrifying thought that would suggest that the entire civilized world needs to drop everything and kick off a gigantomachy against the innumerable ancient enormous oddities that can be found in practically every corner of the world, before they all start hitting whatever the threshold is and begin outnumbering the current lot of gods.
 
[X] Portativ

@Boney do we know if the stream/output direction of a nexus can be changed? It might change our reconquest priorities if a restored nexus only could lead the magic to another corrupted site.
 
Boney said:
Something becoming a God entirely by dint of size and age is a horrifying thought that would suggest that the entire civilized world needs to drop everything and kick off a gigantomachy against the innumerable ancient enormous oddities that can be found in practically every corner of the world, before they all start hitting whatever the threshold is and begin outnumbering the current lot of gods.
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I mean, depends on the theurgy theory one would ascribe to. If one believes that deities become deities due to being fueled by belief, then something ascending due to being big enough to make sapient beings worship it is not actually that different than Sigmar ascending due to kicking enough ass to make sapient beings worship him.
 
Boney said:
Something becoming a God entirely by dint of size and age is a horrifying thought that would suggest that the entire civilized world needs to drop everything and kick off a gigantomachy against the innumerable ancient enormous oddities that can be found in practically every corner of the world, before they all start hitting whatever the threshold is and begin outnumbering the current lot of gods.
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I mean, if Krakanrok the black actually starts moving, who, exactly, can stop him?

EDIT: There is also, and i feel i did not mention it or properly imply it, the part where something is big and strong, it gets worshipped, and then that worship does its thing on the less material side, which is specifically dangerous when Greenskins do that worshipping. But eh.

EDIT2: I mean, Draugnir did deal with Gods as Equals, didn't he? Thats another point in favour, thought more of the size and age rather than the first edit. :V

EDIT3: If you stretch it far enough and take certain liberties with Manaan, Triton might be an example as well :V

EDIT4: Omdra???
 
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With this much completion, even a great deal of size and age isn't enough to attract vast swathes of worshippers. What's needed there is a specific type of charisma.
 
Mopman43 said:
Like being a giant hole filled with teeth.
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Tbh, that sounds a lot like what a propa big Arachnarok would be :V :V :V.

Actually being active and surrounded by races that worship gods probably helps as well. Krakanrok can't get worshipped because he has been cosplaying as Mount McFuckingNowhere and his race already contractually has to worship chaos, Draugnir is dead and even if he wasn't, Elves already have pantheon and Dragons don't worship things in general. So you stay with Omdra, who is a fuckhuge oldass dragon, lives in dark lands and is believed by locals to be a god of sorts. And the locals are greenskins, ogres, humans and chaos dwarfs so like. Checks out. :V You just need to move your enormous wrinkly ass every other generation for people to, if not venerate you, at least consider you as something of the sort.
 
Boney said:
A good entrance can count for a lot.
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....

Is there any evidence AGAINST Sigmar entering the houses/lairs/castles/whatever of his enemies by breaking the wall while yelling "Its hammer time"?

Because that would certainly be a godworthy entrance.

Edit: not a question I wrote wanting Word of QM for, in the case it isn't already obvious.
 
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Imagining a ork follower of Da Revolushun yelling "Dis iz 'da violence uv 'da system" as they punch you.

Read Egrimms sarcastic sychopantic comment as him making fun of his learned behaviour from working under Alric (or Alaric, name never sticks). It was him luxurating in not having a terrible boss.
 
Boney said:
It would all fall into one big category that would inevitably be labelled Gork and Mork but would also contain the few minor gods and religious variances that have managed to take hold in the shockingly resistant greenskin psyche. Worships of such beings as the Spider God, Gorkamorka, Da Revolushun, Grashut, Only Gork, Only Mork, the Waaagh-Waaagh, and so forth would all end up in there if you're able to find any books on the subjects.

The Spider-God is mentioned only a few times, and most theorize that it's either Gork or Mork pretending to be a spider, or some Chaos God trying to suborn the greenskins.
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Surprised no one has considered it might be the Great Maw trying to get more mouths.
 
Shard said:
E: You know, looking at the spellbooks made me wonder. There are fiendishly complex spells that disturb the Aethyr and all wizards in a 5 mile radius can feel the casting. But not all Winds have them - Ghur, Ghyran, Ulgu and Chamon lack them. What kind of Fiendishly Complex Ulgu spells could one design and cast that have a 'everyone in miles can feel this being cast' side effect?
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The Silver Maiden

Shackles of misty silver or silvery mist (no two observers can agree) appear from an apparition that looks like a veiled mystic carved into stone. The opponent within range, if snared and brought in, passes from mind and memory--but not magic and matter. Subtle marks of their presence and struggle are carved in the area the spell was cast, and less subtle perturbations of magic flow outward like an echo for five miles. The number of targets afflicted can substantially vary, and any members of the Gray College nearby will be eager to interrogate whatever hapless wizard casted said spell.

(Comprehensions: Elemental, Meargh, Ghrond)
--
I may or may not be porting this to Shield the World, which may or may not be why I included Comprehensions. Either way, thank you.
 
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SaltyWaffles said:
I think this runs into the problem of the writers not understanding or bothering to pay any mind towards logistics. How do beastmen that hate civilization, have no cities or towns, and live in forests, support a large population at all? Sure, they can hunt beasts, but that cannot even come remotely close to sustaining a large population for very long, let alone at all.

If they're dominant in forests, then they should logically be expanding their population to as large as the wildlife of the forest can sustain, but that obviously isn't the case because the Empire's forests are still bountiful with game to hunt and fruit to forage and natural ecosystems to flourish. This suggests that beastmen populations are a lot more limited. Combine that with the industry and logistics required to field all of their warriors with metal weapons, and it feels like beastman armies should be either rare or pretty limited in size. While greenskins get to cheat with population logistics by apparently not needing to eat anything, the beastmen get no such cheats. The skaven...well, even with black goo, the amount of food they'd need to feed their ridiculous population that also has ridiculous population growth...while being almost entirely underground and in tunnels...is immense.

If the beastmen are regularly warring against each other, well, that makes a lot of sense. Not nearly enough food to go around, little social cohesion, rule of the strongest encouraging war as a means of settling differences or competing with each other. Of course, that would make beastman armies attacking the Empire a rare occurrence, but limited bands of beastmen raiding for food and loot a lot more common.
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There are some mentions made across the books about how a lot of the surviving villages in the Drakwald and the Forest of Shadows, and to a lesser extent in the rest of the Old World's forests, manage to survive long stretches of time without being razed to the ground by Beastmen through paying tribute to them on the down-low under the auspice of Beastman-repelling superstitions.

As well, Beastmen could feasibly subsist on raiding smaller bands of orcs and goblins, who bring a logistics-defying ecosystem with them wherever they go, or extorting a portion of the loot from regular bandits in exchange for being allowed to hide from the Roadwardens in their forests.

There's also smuggling from various underground cells of cultist collaborators as a source of weapons and food; there's more than a small number of hunting lodges alluded to as being owned by various wealthy 'social clubs' that seem to very rarely actually come back from their excursions with antlers, pelts or even meat.

It could be that, much like Bretonnia, Beastman society relies on a number of polite fictions to sustain their war on 'all civilization'.

EDIT: Additionally, it could simply be that between the Beastpaths, and the Beastmen's own greater speed at march, simply affords them such strategic mobility they are able to feign the appearance of being far more numerous and widespread than they actually are.
 
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