There are plenty people we can incentivise to care. Just organising a Renaldian "crusade" (with the help from Heidi) to (re)claim the holy site, the possible Bretonian help in exchange for admittance to Waystone Project was discussed before, hell even Mathilde calling in the boon from the great deed to get seriuos Empire backing, etc.
Perhaps more importantly the fact that we can now build Waystones to drain all the bad mojo and degribblify the Forest of Gloom, turning it into a regular forest (you obviously still need to kill existing gribblies first, but it would make much harder them to reestablish themselves afterwards), thus making it just a much more attractive place to settle in general which would likely attract people willing to move there if it means they own their own lands. Especially if the dwarves are willing to do similar thing they did with Gretel, setting up a cadre of trustworthy mercenaries to for a core of new polity.
I never implied otherwise. Still, regardless of how many people can be incentivized to care, the primary force involved is always going to be the dwarves. Yes, waystones will make holding the Forest of Gloom easier. The problem with that is that is that they also make the Empire easier to hold. The Empire, and Bretonnia, will be more inclined to purify their own lands than taking lands in the Border Princes. You'll be able to get
some help, but the primary force involved will always be dwarves.
Out of all the possible helpers, only humans - and not any humans either - would take payment in gold and land. Well, maybe halflings and ogres as well, I'll concede that.
I do not see how that is relevant. I also could see wood elves acting as mercenaries. There are even Asrai mercenaries!
Aaand you were saying something about how calling this inferiority complex was uncharitable, yet you keep displaying it. Elves have their own advantages, But so does humans! Humans have better artillery, they have plenty of Jade and Amber wizards and most importantly Taalite priests are spellcasters that Elves don't have at all.
And that is ignoring the possibility that Humans just burn down the forest and turn it to more farmland.
As for spirits, Forest of Gloom has none if it had they would be crazier than Asrai ones. So it is not as big as an advantage you might think.
They won't because Eonir can't even keep their own forest safe, they won't send colonist to FoG. I mean City born won't go and Forest Born has just got some safety after hundread of years. So this is moot point.
Another Load bearing If. And Saying they will want military aid disingenuous since we all know that is not what they will want they will want all the magic in the FoG. At that point You will not just lose Dwarven help, Dwarves might just attack in order to take it for themselves.
We know nothing of sorts. It doesn't even matter If Emperor refuses to help, People in the empire is perfecly fine with taking dwarven gold.
Please stop spaghetti posting and respond to the whole argument. It should come to the shock of no one that an argument looks strange when it is cut out from all the points that supports it.
Nothing about the military forces you mention is particularly relevant. I am skeptical of the applicability of artillery in forests. Both of the Wood Elves have better Amber and Jade wizards than the Empire does. Taalite priests are not an 'I win card.' You can read
Tome of Salvation to back that up. I pointed to nature spirits because they are far better at navigating forests than humans are. Look at the quote from Mathilde. They believed that it was feasible for a messenger to get through hundreds of miles of forest. Their experience would have been with humans. Mathilde knew how much more effective Wood Elves could be in a forest in comparison to humans.
Sure, humans can clearcut woods. So can elves. The Eonir would be more willing to do that than the Asrai, but it's not like that nature itself doesn't have stuff like forest fires.
I have said nothing about colonists. I pointed to the Bohka Palace Accords, because it promises military assistance in endeavors to expand the Waystone Network. Laurelorn signed it. I see no reason why we should assume that Laurelorn is so weak that it is wholely unwilling to abide by terms of a treaty that it willingly signed. I also see no reason to think that Laurelorn is currently threatened. The major threats were eliminated with the alliance with Middenland: Nordland and the Beastmen. At least for a time.
I agreed that the Asrai wouldn't be trustworthy. I am aware that it would be exceedingly difficult to get the Asrai to help. That has no bearing on the argument that they cannot be trusted to want to take the magic for themselves. Again, how would they even do that? And as I have pointed out, there are Asrai willing to work for gold, like Scarloc. The main impediment to getting the Asrai to help is that they're isolationists. Why would they help the outside world? But Asrai are capable of being paid to do things. Institutionally it would be more difficult than that, because that would involve Ariel, but it's not completely impossible.
You cannot "lose" dwarven help with regards to the Forest of Gloom. They are the principle actors in the Forest of Gloom. If they call off the campaign, there will be no campaign. People in the Empire will be massively more incentivized to act within the bounds of the Empire for a second Drive to the Frontiers. And beyond the general wandering mercenaries, no, not really. The Forest of Gloom campaign isn't going to be by a single dwarf hold. It's going to be by the Karaz Ankor as a whole. The only way to get (non-mercenary) help without causing a diplomatic incident will be going to the Emperor.
The Empire expects that the High King would go through the Emperor rather than deal directly with individual Elector Counts, so they return the courtesy.
The Dwarves aren't going to commit to taking the Forest of Gloom until the Silver Road War is done at the absolute earliest, and that's not starting for at least another 20 years. The Nexus being held by the Beastmen somewhere deep in the beast paths is the worst possible outcome really - there's no way we're recovering that for an extremely long time. Had the Goblins held it, we could feasibly have planned some daring extraction whilst poking them to fight the beastmen again.
If we want to find a free Nexus, our best bet is probably in the Badlands. That's a whole stretch of inhospitable wasteland that's probably never having its network repaired, and since basically no one wants it except the greenskins, it's possible there might be one held somewhere not all that heavily fortified.
Taking a mapping action and covering the Badlands and Araby would probably be our best bet, there.
Any nexuses in the Badlands that could be looted were probably looted by Nehekhara back in the day. I agree it's unfortunate that the goblins don't have it, but I don't think there's actually much of a difference in difficulty between the two options. It's just that Mathilde has more experience with greenskins. Though to be fair, that also applies to the dwarves.
I'd rather hit Tilea than Araby.
We still don't know if the magic from Tilea & the Border Princes flows westward to Estalia and thus to Ulthuan or if it flows into Skavenblight.
And if it flows into Skavenblight, we probably want to do something about that.
Personally I'd like to map both the Southern Realms and the Badlands and Araby. It'd be good to have an idea of what is going on down there.
