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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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IronFist said:
So they're the equivalent of social drinkers.
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They're a dwarven protestant denomination.
- vigilant against any forms of temptations they can imagine
- close-knit community, distrustful towards outsiders
- allow laypeople to do holy (runecrafting) rites, instead of anointed clergy
- nevertheless consider themselves and are considered a part of a larger culture

Boney said:
There's a Rune for that.
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There's a rune for fire but dwarves are still interested in flamethrowers. I wonder if rangers and other radicals might still be interested...
 
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There is utility to having multiple flamethrowers in the same place. The same is not true of multiple Wind-detecting implements. Only ever needing one and only needing them in specific contexts means this is a demand that Runesmiths can easily cover.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
I think Ranald would still be up for it to be honest - taking a big gamble on a big heist is firmly in Ranald's sphere.

I also think that the circumstances are different enough that it wouldn't be as big if a risk as last time. Back then, Ranald was pulled into the situation and came up with something on the spot, in the middle of what was pretty firmly greenskin divine home turf. Were we to try and repeat something similar, it'd be with advance warning of what was happening, and on sacred grounds that Ranald arguably has a stronger claim to than Mork in the first place.

That's just me engaging with the hypothetical though. In reality, unless Mathilde somehow gets herself benignly possessed again - probably not a great idea - any godly showdowns are probably going to be more in the manner of how Ranald usurped Stromfels' sacred site, except with Ranald having a territorial advantage he didn't back then.

It might not be the safest course of action for Mathilde - see what happened to the poor OG Wolf - but I didn't get the impression that either god was in mortal peril back then.
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To add to all this...

Personally, my impression of the Sacred Site was that it was also a partially reflection of Ranald showing Mathilde what their battle and gamble together had accomplished. It felt kind of touching for that reason: A secret shown with a hint of "this is part of what you did for me/what we did together," to add a touch of the sentimentality of old friends to it.

As a result, I really wouldn't be surprised if the contest of influence between Mork and Ranald there is already mostly decided. Maybe Mork might make it even again with enough time and space to operate, but Ranald/Loec/the shadow's influence being "deeper and older and truer" strikes me that there's already a very solid lean in Ranald's favor.

I could absolutely see having a bit of the dynamics of the Stormfels fight, but at the same time I suspect the territory is a bit more favorable than that, seeing as the shrine to Stormfels was apparently uncontested by Ranald prior to Mathilde rocking up, if derelict, while this one is solidly contested, if active.
 
The Phoenixian said:
could absolutely see having a bit of the dynamics of the Stormfels fight, but at the same time I suspect the territory is a bit more favorable than that, seeing as the shrine to Stormfels was apparently uncontested by Ranald prior to Mathilde rocking up, if derelict, while this one is solidly contested, if active.
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Ehhhh, the stromfels shrine was sort of like. Neutral ground. No one really has a claim on it, except for stromfels just being there. Ranalds skin in that game was his followers saying "whoa fuck this guy get him outta here." if anyone held claim to it, it was manhavok.
"A bit more favorable territory" is an understatement
 
The Phoenixian said:
Maybe Mork might make it even again with enough time and space to operate, but Ranald/Loec/the shadow's influence being "deeper and older and truer" strikes me that there's already a very solid lean in Ranald's favor.
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I think the giant spiderwebs imply the forest goblins and their giant spiders still inhabit the clearing when they arent busy raiding the beastmen, so the area is still in contention.
 
Given that we're talking about Forest Goblins, I think it's worth bearing in mind that it's probably not just Gork & Mork at play, but also the Spider God of the Forest Goblins.
 
The Phoenixian said:
To add to all this...

Personally, my impression of the Sacred Site was that it was also a partially reflection of Ranald showing Mathilde what their battle and gamble together had accomplished. It felt kind of touching for that reason: A secret shown with a hint of "this is part of what you did for me/what we did together," to add a touch of the sentimentality of old friends to it.

As a result, I really wouldn't be surprised if the contest of influence between Mork and Ranald there is already mostly decided. Maybe Mork might make it even again with enough time and space to operate, but Ranald/Loec/the shadow's influence being "deeper and older and truer" strikes me that there's already a very solid lean in Ranald's favor.

I could absolutely see having a bit of the dynamics of the Stormfels fight, but at the same time I suspect the territory is a bit more favorable than that, seeing as the shrine to Stormfels was apparently uncontested by Ranald prior to Mathilde rocking up, if derelict, while this one is solidly contested, if active.
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Respectfully, I didn't get that impression at all. Mathilde found it because Ranald looking for something ancient and lost here would be drawn there over anywhere else, due to ancient ties. Ranald could feasibly have the advantage in kicking Mork out if they were ever in a position to have that fight, but until there's a crusade going through that forest Mork's going to remain in control of the site.
 
Parabola said:
Is the Spider God a thing, in-quest?
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Boney's made one mention.
Boney said:
Most writings on the giants make them seem too scattered and devolved to maintain a culture and language of their own. And on the matter of greenskin language, I eventually decided that what made the most sense is if there's a 'pure' language they're born with knowledge of, and only external influence gives rise to a new dialect - Black Orcs lead to Old World Greenskin, Chaos Dwarves lead to Zharr-Naggrund Hobgoblin, them plus the other Steppe nomads lead to Steppe Hobgoblin, and the Spider-God lead to Forest Goblin. If it worked like a 'natural' language, it would be atomized into a thousand different dialects.
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For some reason, I thought the spider god was a regional deity specific to the goblins in the Drakwald, based on actual spiders there. Do we know that the goblins of the Forest of Gloom even worship it? It wasn't mentioned in the update.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
For some reason, I thought the spider god was a regional deity specific to the goblins in the Drakwald, based on actual spiders there. Do we know that the goblins of the Forest of Gloom even worship it? It wasn't mentioned in the update.
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Worship of the Spider-God is what makes Forest Goblins Forest Goblins.

Worship of it actually began from shamans entering trances brought on by debilitating amounts of spider venom. This brought on visions of another world and the 'Feaster From Beyond' that became known as the Spider-God, and the same methods also served to appease the Arachnarok spiders.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Pretty sure the answer to absolutely anything divine fingerprint related is "under no circumstances ever".
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I can think of one circumstance - Mathilde finds herself in a situation in which divine signature forgery could thwart a dangerous Chaos plot, chance hands her one of those crystals, she discovers that she accidentally packed a vial of AV, and then she receives a waterlogged letter in which the only legible bits of text are a greeting vague enough to apply to her, something like "Go for it" in the middle, and then a signature that could be misread as "Ranald".

DragonParadox said:
That is a bit like arguing Ulric has a line about 'look I like it when you charge the enemy bare chested and howl like a wolf, but I don't want you do die'. The gods are not their followers nanny, survival instinct is up to the mortal.
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The god of, among other things, "above all, you must survive" is probably not the best example here. Ulric may be more about surviving the winter, specifically, than survival in general, but I'm pretty sure He's still got a bigger claim to the "don't die to stupidity" domain than most.
 
Ekzentric Lohner said:
The god of, among other things, "above all, you must survive" is probably not the best example here. Ulric may be more about surviving the winter, specifically, than survival in general, but I'm pretty sure He's still got a bigger claim to the "don't die to stupidity" domain than most.
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Ulric is about self reliance not survival. He will absolutely applaud self destructive action as long as it is done bravely, like refusing to use a gun, refusing to wear a helmet etc... Sure he won't toss you out if you do those things, but he will favor you more if you don't even though that makes you less likely to survive.

Also a god of survival above all else would have long since bowed to Chaos so he clearly isn't that
 
The pivotal question seems like it would be how Ulric would feel about someone refusing something in the name of self-reliance and then getting killed in circumstances that the item you refused would have prevented. Different branches of the Cult of Ulric will give you different answers, but it seems like the side of the argument that errs on the side of putting walls around your cities and cannon on those walls are the ones that would win out in the long term.
 
Out of curiosity Boney, do Mathilde's books say anything about the Spider-God?

Is there a theoretical section on Greenskin theology or would that information just be sorted into the standard Greenskins category?

(Or is it the case that the only ones that would actually have enough information to make a category would be the Greenskins themselves, and every other culture's information on them doesn't amount to enough to be meaningfully separate from the main category?)
 
Mopman43 said:
Out of curiosity Boney, do Mathilde's books say anything about the Spider-God?

Is there a theoretical section on Greenskin theology or would that information just be sorted into the standard Greenskins category?

(Or is it the case that the only ones that would actually have enough information to make a category would be the Greenskins themselves, and every other culture's information on them doesn't amount to enough to be meaningfully separate from the main category?)
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It would all fall into one big category that would inevitably be labelled Gork and Mork but would also contain the few minor gods and religious variances that have managed to take hold in the shockingly resistant greenskin psyche. Worships of such beings as the Spider God, Gorkamorka, Da Revolushun, Grashut, Only Gork, Only Mork, the Waaagh-Waaagh, and so forth would all end up in there if you're able to find any books on the subjects.

The Spider-God is mentioned only a few times, and most theorize that it's either Gork or Mork pretending to be a spider, or some Chaos God trying to suborn the greenskins.
 
I don't think I know Da Revolushun, but it sounds like fun. Is it a deity, or a general belief that greenskins should all paint themselves red so they can all go as fast as possible?
 
I feel like setting up a ranald knightly order in order to contest the forest of the gloom is a good idea.

One of the reasons among others is that Border Princes is not worth it is without constant culling gribblies have far more numbers. Setting up a knightly order at the border of the forest of the gloom to be supported by Gretel and support her in return should be done. And considering the holy land in the FoG, it must be Ranald and not Taal even if the job they are to do is exactly same as what Taalites are doing in the Empire. And with Gretels land getting populated we should do it soon before some actual Taalites move in.
 
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