Remove ads

Starfleet Design Bureau

Linked contents
Starship Design Bureau Starfleet Design Bureau
Reader mode
Cold Dust said:
If we end up designing another support ship, it's probably an idea to snap up light covariant though (situation dependent of course), it should keep things fairly cheap, give it better durability and push the technology on a wee bit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah I don't have any huge issues with this.

KNakamura said:
I would not come to that conclusion, considering that Covariants are the new tech.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's fairly accurate?

Sayle has told us that we'll likely get a shield refit, and that refits work on like-for-like. So Large is refitted for Large, Standard for Standard, etc.. This means if we go for a Large Type-1 now, when we get a refit we'll get Large Type-1 Covariant, which is obviously a bit more than a Standard Type-1 Covariant. So it does give the design a bit more longevity in that sense.

Of course you could argue that if the Type-2 comes along, maybe Starfleet would be willing to spend money to refit it a standard one but not a large one? But that's also probably when the ship is getting closer to the end of her service life anyway.
 
To be clear, yes, but that'd push me to vote for Heavy Covariant, not Type-1 Heavy. I'm voting for as strong a shield as I can get without going too far in cost.
 
[X] Heavy Covariant [44 Shields] (Cost 79.25 -> 116.75) [Second Tranche: 73.25 ->103.25]
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
 
Last edited:
uju32 said:
No they are not.
We are already starting from behind the tech curve; the Klingons have better shields than we do.

Just to achieve technological parity requires additional effort on our part.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That quote also indicates that we are around twice their tonnage in a range where that translates linearly into shield output. We probably have more shield output than they do on this basis.
 
uju32 said:
No they are not.
We are already starting from behind the tech curve; the Klingons have better shields than we do.

Just to achieve technological parity requires additional effort on our part.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They are better for us because they provide the same degree of protection at a slightly lower cost while allowing us to refit better shields on in a reasonable timeframe. If we take standard covariant then we won't be able to refit until we unlock type-2 shields.
 
luckless21 said:
And standard covariant shields are the exact same stats outside price as heavy type 1s and you can't refit standards to heavies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also in terms of covariant, the first tranche explicitly has a prototype roll. So like... it's easy to say that they have the same durability, unless we fail the roll which isn't too unlikely. Then we get less shields on the first tranche, and there's fewer of them. Major suck all around when they're going straight into a war.

We could also fail the RF launcher prototype roll, which would be bad on its own. There's a reason I wanted standard launchers so much.
 
Last edited:
[X] Type-1 Standard [27 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 84.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 78.75]
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]


Modifying
 
[X] Type-1 Standard [27 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 84.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 78.75]
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
 
uju32 said:
Just to achieve technological parity requires additional effort on our part.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
While true, there is a flip side to it. Which is to be able to make the largest possible future effort, one needs to survive the current day first. Thus logically speaking one can't afford to lose to much now, else one will not be able to continue ones efforts. Aside of ethical reasons of preferably not abandoning ones colonies and outer members in the first place I'd hope.
KNakamura said:
I assume we'll never do the refit. We sometimes don't. Large is fine for a ship this size, tbh. I'd prefer Heavy Covariant, if I'm brutally honest, but the cost prevents me from voting for it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Shiny is nice, yeah. But the cost performance ratio isn't very good right now, yeah.

It's why I'm just going with the normal Typ-1 Large right now that will probably be refit for Large Covariant in future by Starfleet when it is cheaper. Thus keeping this design in the fight for some further decades probably.


So in that sense, it's probably the choice that gives this design the longest life time with the most ships made.
 
[ ] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
[X] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
 
Last edited:
oh, and look at that, I completely missed the QM post that explicitly calls Klingon weapon and shield technology "nakedly superior" to ours! This only makes me want the large Covariants more.

(Also @Sayle I would strongly question a D6 or D7 being only 100 ktons, they're similar, even slightly larger, in internal volume and superior in overall volume to the canon-Connie after all. They're CHUNKY BOIS)
 
With the combination of Covariant being more expensive and refits only allowing upgrades within the same strength tier, most of the options feel pointless.

Type 1 standard? Too weak to be useful imo. Can be hypothetically refit at some point to standard tier Covariant. Congrats, should've chosen Heavy Type 1 from the start.

Heavy Type-1? Doesn't advance tech any (boring!), but provides decent protection (same as standard covariant) and could hypothetically be upgraded to Heavy Covariant as some point.

Light Covariant? Same protection as Type-1 standard, but more expensive and a dead end within the hull's likely lifespan. Pass.

Standard Covariant? Same protection as Type-1 heavy, but more expensive and a dead end within the hull's likely lifespan. Pass.

Heavy Covariant? Best protection bar none but ludicrous in Cost and a dead end within the hull's likely lifespan as true Type 2 shields are still a pipedream at this juncture. Pass.

[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
 
Last edited:
If we're bringing refits into the argument, then we should get covariants here because it will open up the option for our other ships to get an upgrade in the near term.
 
I'll be honest all the people banking on a refit is pretty foolish considering we've only ever done 1 refit.
 
[X] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
[X] Heavy Covariant [44 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 116.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 103.25]

Edit: Switched out the Type 1 Heavy with a Covariant Heavy.
I want the Klingons to make sure they get an express ticket to Sto-vo-kor with this ship class.
 
Last edited:
Quickshot0 said:
Shiny is nice, yeah. But the cost performance ratio isn't very good right now, yeah.

It's why I'm just going with the normal Typ-1 Large right now that will probably be refit for Large Covariant in future by Starfleet when it is cheaper. Thus keeping this design in the fight for some further decades probably.


So in that sense, it's probably the choice that gives this design the longest life time with the most ships made.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
These ships might actually have a quite long service life(those that survive) as well, because unlike OTL we took a vertical warp core that will be much easier to refit in the future. That's probably the reason in quest that the Excelsior had such a long service life.
Lavaflow said:
If we're bringing refits into the argument, then we should get covariants here because it will open up the option for our other ships to get an upgrade in the near term.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We are unlikely to engage in heavy refits of the legacy fleet because they cannot use the new Warp 8 engine. Unless we have loads of spare docks it's almost certainly better to push production of this ship as hard as possible.
 
Lavaflow said:
If we're bringing refits into the argument, then we should get covariants here because it will open up the option for our other ships to get an upgrade in the near term.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's unlikely we'll see upgrades in time for the war, which is when they're going to matter the most.
 
DeltaV11.2 said:
That quote also indicates that we are around twice their tonnage in a range where that translates linearly into shield output. We probably have more shield output than they do on this basis.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes.
So what about the Tholians? Or the Romulans?
And that quote also says that the Klingon weapons are better than ours as well, so we actually do need that shield output.

Lohjak said:
They are better for us because they provide the same degree of protection at a slightly lower cost while allowing us to refit better shields on in a reasonable timeframe. If we take standard covariant then we won't be able to refit until we unlock type-2 shields.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The many issues with the presumption of refits have beeen discussed.
As have the Fleet-wide drawbacks of settling for lastgen tech when we are already technologically behind in both shield and weapon tech.

luckless21 said:
And standard covariant shields are the exact same stats outside price as heavy type 1s and you can't refit standards to heavies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Advancing covariant tech benefits ALL of Starfleet.
Not just this ship.
Id take Large Covariant if I could convince people to vote for it; Standard is a compromise.
 
Quickshot0 said:
That's a really easy side step answer to make. But no military in history has typically agreed with it. Lots of military have been willing to make at times some pretty surprising money saving moves to just get more things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Did you... not read my next paragraph? Or any of the rest of that section? I spent some time outlining why I think our ship still counts as affordable (and/or tactically justifiable) - I'd appreciate if you could address any of that instead of waving it off as a "side step answer".

Additionally, even supposing I think "militar[ies] in history" are comparable to the current situation (I don't*), you're saying 'typically' 'lots' of militaries 'at times' make 'surprising moves' to get 'things'. That is so generally nonspecific as to be useless; if you want to argue with me, try addressing my points, or even bringing a few of your own (backed with actual facts and/or analysis, please).


* Trek warfare revolves around the use of a small number of starships, which are basically mobile superweapons. There really isn't any historical equivalent - the closest I can think of are aircraft carriers, which by my understanding tend to be as big and fancy as possible (and are only sorta comparable in the first place).
 
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by Sarpedon on Oct 23, 2024 at 6:19 PM, finished with 294 posts and 69 votes.
Click to expand...
 
Let's take one moment though guys.

This ship is going to fuck. From the Klingon perspective; it's going to come out of nowhere at Warp Bat Out of Hell, dump 108 damage into their face before they can blink, then drive by for another 36 and leave them staring at our middle fingers if a Klingon ship somehow survives.
 
Last edited:
[x] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top