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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Left cannot help but have me think about our first Azamar vision and the entire calming role Elders hold in Dwarven society.

While right has the already mentioned words of Grimnir and about every reference to Will.
 
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The right is the epitome of dawidom all of its own. This is literally race that gets more potent the more enraged it gets, that resists the pull of Father time if it feels it has reason enough, that simply refuses to fade from the world in face of impossible adversity.

Toughness proportional to willpower is it.
 
[X] [Stone:] Right

Yeah, my opinion is more or less whilst the Left Rune is the one that would be better for us to have and also be better for what the Dawi should be? It is not what the Dawi are. The Right Rune is absolutely representative of what the Dawi are and whilst one day that may become the Left Rune? It is not going to be any time soon without extreme upheaval of a sort Snorri would never contemplate.

Which means the Left Rune can not represent what the Dawi are right now, whether as they are or as the 'pinnacle Dwarf that could be'.
 
soulcake said:
"Father!/Master Klausson," they say, "Ma says dinner's ready!/Dinner is ready."

You grumble, kindly in the former, dismissive in the other.

"Eat without me, I need to finish this letter to your uncle/my brother." you tell them.

"You know ma won't like that!" the blonde girl says, a frown gracing her face. Karstah's face doesn't so much fall, but her shoulders slump and she lingers at the entrance.

In one scene a vision of loveliness walks up behind the girl, older than she ever actually got to be in reality, with a soft frown maring her face. In that world, you are cajoled and prodded into finally doing what you knew you wanted to do the entire time. It plays out like a ritual that's been rehearsed plenty of times, one similar to the one you are sure so many other families no doubt practice.

It feels wrong to be witness to it.

In the other, the real memory, you turn away, putting the interaction out of your mind. The sound of thumping can be heard as Karstah walks off after closing the door quietly behind her while you continue writing to Jorri.
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Okay so the vision is basically what if his wife didn't die and if he was teaching his biological daughter. Ouch that is really rough for Snorri both in terms of his losses and for how he's been raising and teaching Karstah.

soulcake said:
"What do you mean?" your heir/daughter asks, pale grey/blue eyes looking at you worriedly, "What do you see? What's the Rune done to you?"

"The Rune, yes. The Rune." you mutter to yourself with almost frantic desperation, "It must be why I'm seeing this."
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She must be really concerned right now.

soulcake said:
The better version of you encourages your child, you do not do the same to Karstah. It shows you with the way you ought to have acted, could have acted, if you are a better man. If you weren't so willfully blind of implication and direction.

If she was alive.

If Karstah was her daughter.
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The moment of realization is killing him inside.

soulcake said:
You lie to yourself, about the truth of what you desire and believe. You tell the world that these changes are needed to safeguard Dwarfkind, to preserve the knowledge of our Ancestors and the work of our Guild. And to your credit those words sing somewhat true.

But that wasn't all, was it? Our ways did what you claimed, but not to your standards did they? Teaching apprentices is not enough, you must teach every Master. To spread your knowledge faster, farther, to teach them the right way. You smother and coddle those around you with gifts and trinkets, always intervening, always meddling because you do not trust them to do it properly. Defense in Depth, your overpreparation, your very title, Gift Giver, says all that need be said.

You do not trust them.

Not our traditions. Not our people. Not your colleagues. Not your family. Not even yourself.

Why should you? They all failed when you needed them most.

So you grasp, blindly, desperately, to ensure what befell you does not happen to anyone else.

You will smother them all to satisfy yourself.

It will damn the Guild, it will damn the Karaz Ankor, when the day comes that you push too far everything shatters in your hands. And I want to tell it to you plainly, because either you don't know, or more concerningly, you do and you do not care.

You know these are not the words of Alric Thungnisson, that the Rune uses him only as a mouthpiece for another's thoughts and fears. No, these are not his…

"But mine," you murmur, finally taking control of the illusion fully as you fold the letter up and put it to the side.
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This is Snorri's darkest thoughts and doubts and honestly all things considered it could be a lot worse. They're the doubts and concerns of a wounded but good man.

soulcake said:
These are your thoughts. Your worries. Buried deep, so much so that you almost believed them conquered, but the Rune has dredged them up to show you, to pick at these scars until they bleed. An inelegant method of doing it, and nothing like what you expect from Thungni.

But perhaps that wasn't the point.

"Is this what you wish for me to learn, Lord Thungni? To remind me of my faults, to temper my pride?" you ask the empty room.
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It was a pretty rough Trial on Thungni's end.

soulcake said:
"You could carry it," he suggests with a shrug as if the idea wasn't abject insanity, "I am not the only one taking this Trial. Besides, I think I've done enough introspection for a little bit."
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Snorri trusts and loves his daughter and that's what matters.
soulcake said:
To claim the Hammer is to claim the seat of one Lost.

To claim the seat of one Lost is to embody Us.

To embody Us is to be Dawi

To be Dawi is to—

—Resist.

Overcome.

Endure.
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This is going to be a test of Will on the level of something beyond Snorri's previous experiences.

DragonParadox said:
Oh and as an answer to this:

It will damn the Guild, it will damn the Karaz Ankor, when the day comes that you push too far everything shatters in your hands. And I want to tell it to you plainly, because either you don't know, or more concerningly, you do and you do not care.

If the guild and the whole Karaz Ankor are one Snori fuck up from being damned than they have already failed far more thoroughly than Snori ever could. The sentiment is itself quite prideful on Snori's part.
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Yeah that's very true, Dawi built things to last and to work under even the most stressful circumstances, they don't tolerate shoddy work. If the Guild could be ruined by one Dawi no matter how notable it was a failure in the first place.

Alectai said:
No, I think it's right in this case, and I'll tell you why. "What is a Dawi". They're one that Resists, Overcomes, and Endures.

Stone erodes over time, this can't be helped, but a strong foundation ensures that the change in shape doesn't cause the entire edifice to crumble. That the Stone Endures even if it may be carved into different shapes and different forms over time.

As long as the Will remains, the Stone will survive, and it plays well with the rest of the Combo being put together as well. "What doesn't break you in the first blow will struggle to do so over time." "You cannot be turned against your nature without a fight" and "As long as your will holds, you will endure all trials."

It feels like a coherent narrative to define "What is a Dawi". There may have been other viable Combos, but this feels like the natural conclusion to this one.
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A very insightful comment on Dawi and the test.

Dark as Silver said:
This doesn't entirely ring true to me? Snorri's had 7 apprentices and by most accounts that far above the average, Vragni Apprentice-Teacher who taught 1000 beardlings is a statistical outlier and should not have been counted.
Lorna didn't have one before becoming a Runelord and seems to have sworn them off since.
E: If you feel like telling me that this was Snorri's self doubt not Alric and Thungi actually appearing before Snorri in a dream and telling him to take more apprentices or he's a hypocrite... Please don't I know that and other people already have.
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I mean respect where respect is do Vragni's sheer number of apprencitces is absurd and really impressive. Snorri's apprentices are better in my opinion given what they've pulled off and their abilities, but there's an element of protagonist bias to that.

soulcake said:
As above, but to play Devil's advocate you're a very Old Runelord, virtually unchallenged in your region. Even a small schism is one schism too many.

Imagine being the first guy to make the Karaz Ankor fracture in anyway after the Ancestors leave.
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Yeah it's the Dwarven Shame that's making him nervous.

DragonParadox said:
Doesn't matter, this is not a comparison against other people. Snori is spending some time teaching, the traditional way would be to teach apprentices in that time. He refuses to do so and instead teaches masters because that is more efficient. So intrinsically this is a conflict with and a critique of tradition.
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Khazagar is very much a split from normal tradtion.

UlseDovThur said:
Thematically it's definitely Right. But dear sweet god the functionality of the Left when combined with Barak Azamar.

I'm definitely going to choose Right because it's pretty clearly the correct choice. But it's gonna sting to give up the Left.

And to be clear, Left is absolutely the Wrong choice, not just for this puzzle but for Snorri himself, because it does exactly what was Snorri just criticizing himself for. Coddling those around himself by overly protecting them. Thinking they can't handle themselves on their own.
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I felt that Left was fitting for Snorri as a protector and what he's motived by, but I think it's also playing into his doubts of being to overprotective. And that there's a bit of arrogance there to assume that he can weather everything and doesn't need more.

DragonParadox said:
From Snori's perspective that would be terrible of course, from my perspective OOC... I'm not sure if the eternal monoculture is desirable. Seems to me that the Ancestors' desire to see the dwarfs reach new paths and grow beyond looking to them for everything inherently contains the seeds of schism. If you break the mold it's not all going to be in one direction.
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Oh yeah it would make Snorri miserable but it would cement Snorri in the Dwarven consciousness and culture.

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Every Ancestor has hammered home that what matters is Will and we've seen every old dwarf will themselves beyond their limits. For the combo it's definitely Right. The left one is perfect for the storm survival banner but honestly doesn't fit with the combo we made. It would fit better with the rune that buffed allies' courage but we chose to focus on a single target combo.
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Snorri needs Will given that it's all kinds of importnat.

[X] [Stone:] Right

It's been said straight up that the nature of a Dwai is to overcome and the importance of Will has been talked about again and again. For something as central as the Stone Rune this is the most defining part of what a Dawi is, and it's their Will.
 
soulcake said:
You could carry it," he suggests with a shrug as if the idea wasn't abject insanity, "I am not the only one taking this Trial. Besides, I think I've done enough introspection for a little bit."
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That's hilarious Snorri, but who's been getting the vision quests here and who's just been along for the ride?


[X] [Stone:] Right
 
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