It's worth noting that our protections also, like... worked.

Even disregarding Sabrina's own weirdness, just trying to control our allies was enough to bring Tochimichi to her knees and would have outright witched out the Chiyoda group if Sabrina hadn't been there and providing cleansing.
"Worked" is a strong word. They jacked up the casting cost (possibly, anyway; it could also have just been a combination of Sayaka's real body being way out of the effect's usual range and Sabrina being a literal demigod), but nobody except Sabrina was really able to resist the effect, and even she was slowed to a crawl.
 
"Worked" is a strong word. They jacked up the casting cost (possibly, anyway; it could also have just been a combination of Sayaka's real body being way out of the effect's usual range and Sabrina being a literal demigod), but nobody except Sabrina was really able to resist the effect, and even she was slowed to a crawl.
Sayaka's real body being way out of the effect's usual range was one of our countermeasures. We probably would've taken a lot more like it if we were going to Tokyo for combat instead of negotiations.

Going to Tokyo for negotiations instead of combat was also one of our countermeasures, and one that Iowa would've had a real hard time implementing if they'd thought to try it. A more implicit one than Sayaka staying in Mitakihara, but an important one nonetheless. Not all tools to address problems are weapons or armor, because real life is a lot more complicated than "who would win in a fight."
 
Your initial proposal was flawed to begin with. I said one evil guca can start stirring enough shit to cause system collapse. Collapse in question isnt that she would conquer the world; collapse in question is that others would see that system is not infallible and can be exploited and even if said evil guca gets ganked, if she achieves any success this is enough of a proof. People were fucking hanging criminals irl some, what, 300 years ago and yet people were still doing crimes. Because everyone thinks "Nah, I wont get caught". Back to scenario, you instantly said "No, she would get jumped by 20 good gucas". And I took the bait, I ran with assumption that evil guca would be a fucking moron and would out herself immediately to 20 other megucas. And I still came up with scenario where she can win even such a blunder. Your next scenario is "Well, she is totally going to sit on her ass doing nothing while word gets around and then she just waits for obvious retaliation also doing nothing". Well no shit she is going to lose, you put hypothetical evil guca in the most unfavorable scenarios and then go "See, its fine". From my point of view, you do in fact dismiss any negative possibilities. Which is funny because you then immediately go back on that.

A stable society isn't one that never has any problems, it's one that has the tools to address whatever problems arise.
A stable society also isnt utopia. Its ironic because me saying "Its not all sunshine and rainbows and assholes always would try to stir shit up and you really cant get rid of them for good no matter how hard you try" and you disagreeing with that is what started this entire chain. You cant per se win this battle. You can only repeatedly deal with those who deem themselves more worthy.

So I glad we agreed at least on that one.

"Worked" is a strong word. They jacked up the casting cost (possibly, anyway; it could also have just been a combination of Sayaka's real body being way out of the effect's usual range and Sabrina being a literal demigod), but nobody except Sabrina was really able to resist the effect, and even she was slowed to a crawl.
I dont think it even was mind control, wasnt there's something up with karma? And mind control was kind side effect or rather consequences of controlling karma, not a direct magic application.
 
Collapse in question isnt that she would conquer the world; collapse in question is that others would see that system is not infallible and can be exploited and even if said evil guca gets ganked, if she achieves any success this is enough of a proof.
"Any success" isn't sufficient - for misbehavior to attract imitators, the wages of sin have to be notably better than what they could've gotten by playing nice. Constellation's system doesn't have to be infallible, just better for its members than the alternative. Fortunately (?) Kyuubey has gone to rather a lot of trouble over the millennia to make that alternative deeply horrific for pretty much everyone involved, so we've got a reasonably low bar to clear.
 
"Any success" isn't sufficient - for misbehavior to attract imitators, the wages of sin have to be notably better than what they could've gotten by playing nice.
For the most people sure. Those who start the trend only need a proof of concept. Again, "SURELY I will be much more successful?".

I also said it somewhere and I'll say again: once the absolute necessary stuff gets covered people would start looking for more. For example, money. Its banal as hell sure but people need money. Depending on level of integration with normies, Constellation could probably provide decently paying jobs but well if "decently paying" was good enough for everyone we wouldnt have rampant corruption in half of the world IRL (and less rampant in other half).

Like, Kyoko straight up busts ATMs. I am not sure she stopped because I cant recall whether or not we had this conversation, but I dont think she asked Mami or Sabrina for money. So any money she has are probably stolen.
 
[X] "Your worldview is artificially being upheld by a malicious alien intelligence. Think about that and your place in the world."
-[X] "Meanwhile, I'm going to go social Darwinist social Darwinism itself, by continuing using my strength to build enduring systems that remove the reason girls feel they have to turn to it. Toodles!"
--[X] Surround the lights in Grief that's using the quantum-interference light-reflection to be glittery, magnifying the light levels to briefly-overwhelming but not damaging levels.
---[X] There's a joy-filled laugh, joined by others, then fading into nothingness
----[X] The light levels return to normal, and Sabrina is no longer there. There is no sign of her.
-----[X] No sign of anything except a card, drifting gently to the floor, asking her to rate our exit out of ten.
[x] Go talk to Anri.
-[x] Vote in abeyance for topics.
 
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Constellation could probably provide decently paying jobs
Fair market value for baseline MG capabilities, even without economically relevant signature powers, could be a lot better than "decently paying." Roof-hopping courier service that can probably outpace helicopters, with less overhead expenses than a bike messenger? Visibly-supernatural bodyguard for billionaires or tinpot dictators?
Plenty of national militaries would gladly shell out something close to the net present value of thus-avoided pension expenses in order to regrow disabled veterans' missing limbs good as new, so any magical girl who can figure out how to heal other people at all might reasonably be able to swing a "decently comfortable retirement" level payday per week, without even focusing on it full-time.
 
Your initial proposal was flawed to begin with.
My initial proposal is how real, functioning, long-lasting communal societies actually work. Like, in real life. With real humans who are subject to real human nature.

I'm not talking about hanging criminals. You may note that we haven't hung the Iowa group, we're holding them until we can find someone to talk to them and help them chill the fuck out. Mature societies have "someone to talk to them" ready to go. They even frequently talk to people before they do any murders at all. Communal problems require communal solutions.

I never said that your all-hating mind control meguca would ever sit around doing nothing. It just doesn't matter, because I'm not interested in a "yeah but this countermeasure can be countered by that" VS debate. The weeds are uninteresting, irrelevant, and need not be gotten into. Assume that your supervillain is doing whatever SB Optimal stuff makes you happy. Likewise assume that everyone else isn't stupid. Remember how Iowa went? We had Mika call us to say "hey, this thing is weird," we said "yeah, that thing sounds ominous and deserves further investigation" and immediately told our closest allies about the ominous thing, further investigation revealed that the thing was indeed super ominous, and we had a bunch of our friends ready to go start a fight in about ten minutes. Iowa wasn't sitting on their ass doing nothing for that time, they were gathering intel in a super stealthy way that only a group containing someone very similar to Mika would've ever thought to look into.

The Iowa response was not representative of what we're aiming for. For one, our community is still small and inexperienced enough that having someone who can recognize the warning signs of a particular kind of weird magic is lucky instead of expected. For another, the girls in Mandalay couldn't directly call for help themselves. For another, they couldn't indirectly call for help by virtue of having friends in Maymyo who might notice that they're not returning their calls. For another, there was only a handful of people able and willing to answer any call for help that they did manage, due to a number of obstacles to both "able" and "willing" that we will be addressing in the coming years.

But, most importantly, Iowa came from outside us, and the only opportunity we had to intervene was well into their murdering careers. These girls didn't just decide on their own that it would make intuitive sense if the world was full of people all competing over the same limited resources and the only way to thrive is to compete better than everyone else so you can take their resources. They were raised in a society that encouraged that worldview, and then found themselves in an extreme environment that strongly rewarded acting that way and lethally punished not acting that way.

A Parró contracting ten years from now will still be raised in the same society, but upon contracting will enter a magical environment in which far more interconnected meguca are free of any scarcity except what they choose for themselves, with real adult magical girls all the way in their mid-twenties to help her get acclimated. And then, because she's Parró and she learned the lessons of her upbringing well, she'll recognize that conquering other magical girls is a non-starter (even our Parró sees that attacking a powerful meguca's friends is a bad idea, she just doesn't realize that's scalable) but maybe she could find some muggles to rule as a god-queen, and someone will have to non-euphemistically discourage her from that.

If Sabrina has anything to say about it, a Parró in a hundred years won't even have the upbringing.
 
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I'm not talking about hanging criminals. You may note that we haven't hung the Iowa group
I agree with a lot of you said here (and I think Iowa response IS ideal to which we must strive; Teleporting. Meguca. SWAT. Squad. And independent telepathy network because fuck Kyubey) but I think you missed the point of this particular line. I meant that even when absurdly drastic measures that literally cost criminals their lives were implemented people STILL were willing to try some shit.

Though 100 years to change society sounds mighty optimistic. Unless meguca gov basically starts ruling over the world, openly or from behind the curtain, I have many doubts changes would happen this quickly.
 
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I agree with a lot of you said here (and I think Iowa response IS ideal to which we must strive; Teleporting. Meguca. SWAT. Squad. And independent telepathy network because fuck Kyubey) but I think you missed the point of this particular line. I meant that even when absurdly drastic measures that literally cost criminals their lives were implemented people STILL were willing to try some shit.

Though 100 years to change society sounds mighty optimistic. Unless meguca gov basically starts ruling over the world, openly or from behind the curtain, I have many doubts changes would happen this quickly.
That's because absurdly drastic measures are objectively worthless for anything but helping cops and politicians get off. We're not just aiming for rehabilitative justice here because we're nice, it also actually works.

Leaving aside my quibbles about government and ruling, it's gonna. The potential for dual power is right there. No way we go a century without something happening.
 
The 15 year olds of magical society will live to be 25, in mass, for the first time in all of history that cannot be overstated. Mages being able to live longer lifespans while existing as more than hunter-gatherers is going to naturally lead to them wanting to enact change. The Constellation should be setup in a way that will direct those ambitions in better directions than magocracy rather than up hold the status quo. (I give it like max five years before we have to hold a meeting discussing the potential overthrow of a government.)
 
The 15 year olds of magical society will live to be 25, in mass, for the first time in all of history that cannot be overstated. Mages being able to live longer lifespans while existing as more than hunter-gatherers is going to naturally lead to them wanting to enact change. The Constellation should be setup in a way that will direct those ambitions in better directions than magocracy rather than up hold the status quo. (I give it like max five years before we have to hold a meeting discussing the potential overthrow of a government.)
One complication I see arising is that normal governments maintain power on the basis of two assumptions (well, probably more, but these are the two immediately obvious ones): that all humans exist within a fairly narrow range in terms of the individual threat they can present, and that the government has an overall monopoly on force. In a world with magic neither of those apply- magical girls vary too much in capability, and once you start putting normal humans into the comparison the gap between strongest and weakest grows even larger. Whatever society exists is going to need to develop much more robust safeguards and checks than IRL governments to keep assholes from rising to the top off of raw personal power.

Fortunately, that's not something we need to worry about immediately; it's a much more long-term issue than what we're currently facing.
 
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So...Parro is attached to the Status Quo like an abused lover

Sabrina doesn't really need anything from Parro herself, like, Sabrina already got what she want by getting her out of the way so she doesn't interfere, either with Walpugisnact or her friends.

At this point, it's more treating Parro fairly for the sake of setting a precedent of treating prisoners fairly, which means 'smug remarks' 'comebacks' 'threat displays' or 'last word-isms' shouldn't be done because that...feels kinda toxic and abusive towards any theoretical prisoner and kinda goes against the principle of rehabilatative justice.

Any comments or remarks should be about imprisonment going forwards, like, do they have anyone they want to call, like their parents? or maybe they want help pick whatever therapist or lawyer gets assigned to their case? otherwise, no point in talking.
 
Um @Torgamous do you actually know what a Carpetbagger is? I'm asking because your arguments so far don't appear from my point of view to account for that kind of Bad Faith behavior.
 
Um @Torgamous do you actually know what a Carpetbagger is? I'm asking because your arguments so far don't appear from my point of view to account for that kind of Bad Faith behavior.
I mostly associate the term with Confederates being salty about having lost the war, as their version of "virtue signaler." But I've previously expressed concern that Mika might be networking with the eventual goal of hijacking Constellation for her own ends, if that's what you're asking.

My arguments so far aren't an exhaustive manual of every way we might deal with every bad faith behavior, for the same reason I didn't want to get into "we could do this to counter your mind controller!" "she counters with this!" "we counter that with this!" "well fine but what about if there's an evil cloner?"
 
I mostly associate the term with Confederates being salty about having lost the war, as their version of "virtue signaler." But I've previously expressed concern that Mika might be networking with the eventual goal of hijacking Constellation for her own ends, if that's what you're asking.

My arguments so far aren't an exhaustive manual of every way we might deal with every bad faith behavior, for the same reason I didn't want to get into "we could do this to counter your mind controller!" "she counters with this!" "we counter that with this!" "well fine but what about if there's an evil cloner?"

Well yes, but no. Unlike with virtue signaling, which describes an action most Evangelicals are taught to do as children projected onto Leftist behavior, carpetbaggers were real and the Confederates used their existence in Reconstruction Era USA to tar the actions and politics of actual human rights activists in order to maintain power.

I'll need to keep my eye on Mika and some of the other members of Constellation who might be a risk in that way. After all not all carpetbaggers were or are about just showing up, networking and then doing a hostile takeover. Some of them are idealists that are too cynical to do the right thing and instead turn their organizations into cults of personality.

Thank you for the pointer.
 
I want you to keep in mind that all my previous responses to problems have been a variation of "if it happens, we'll figure it out," because my response to this one is "how the fuck would that even happen? What does that even mean?" Sabrina isn't a socially constructed position.
Stalker/Impersonator + Comedy + Sabrina is a load bearing structural member of Constellation...
 
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