Starfleet Design Bureau

Full Saucer gives us multiple angles of fire against multiple enemies along with forward firing torpedo launchers, while the Half Saucer provides a secondary hull that will allow us space for something to add to the ship later on.

For me, I'm leaning on the Half Saucer hull, though the Full Saucer hull isn't bad, either.
 
As the agency which determines the options Starfleet has for procurement, it is in our interest as the SDB that Starfleet does not downsize, but rather that its procurement budget and need for new designs only keeps increasing. In other words, that the era of Excelsior-dependence we saw in the quest opening does not come to pass. This is the problem of militarism and navalism: the interest of the standing, salaried bureaucracy is to consume ever more of that portion of society's production crystallized in the state budget (and also to grow the state budget) until nothing is left for other social priorities.

And I do not think it is too much to be worried about militarism and navalism driving imperialism when we have seen the Romulan attack on Earth stoke questers' desire to be the nuclear hammer upon other nations. In an interactive quest I simply do not believe these things to be irrelevant. Otherwise, we would be reading a story.
So your argument is that we can't be trusted to act against our ic interests as the SDB in favor of the Federation's idealism… despite the voter base of this quest mostly having a vested interest in this quest precisely because of the Federation's idealism?

I think it's fair to say that for a lot of sci-fi fans, Star Trek helps shapes what they think an ideal future ought to be. I'm not sure there's a setting out there that SV voters wouldn't more firmly stick to idealism over self interest.
 
While I like the aesthetics of the Arrowhead hull (most especially because we've made a lot of Saucer-style ships) it kinda just seems objectively worse, especially for this situation.
 
[X] Full Saucer

I want this battleship to be packed to its metaphorical gills with phase cannons & torpedoes.
I also want every angle of approach to be a firing range of destruction.
 
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Full saucers for explorers, half saucers for warships.
While I would like to follow this since it was something brought up earlier in the thread that I agree with, I'm not sure if it's the correct choice for a dreadnought style ship. This will be a brick when it comes to maneuverability, so it needs all the firing angles it can get.
 
Man, I really want the arrowhead design, but I need to think pretty hard about its advantages and disadvantages.
The Saucer will have full coverage, but not necessarily be able to concentrate all that fire onto one point, whereas anything within the arc of the Arrowhead probably just flat out dies, but it's vulnerable to attack from other vectors.
Granted, the extra engine space will likely mean the Arrowhead will have superior maneuverability, but whether that's enough to respond to a romulan ship decloaking in your aft is a hefty question.
There's also the whole question of torpedoes to consider. If we want to just turn this into a pure phaserboat and let the escorts do the missiles, that's probably not a terrible plan, but we might miss them.
 
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i know people are going to lean towards the all angle coverage but the ability to concentrate as much as the firepower on a single target seems at least as important. This ship is presumably always going to be escorted. If the best Romulan tactic is trying to fight a Starfleet task force while constrained to a fairly narrow window of attack, that's still valuable. But a DN that's designed such it can't really bring that much firepower onto a single target if needed is missing the point of trying to breach shields as fast as possible.

It doesn't need to be able to withstand a Romulan wolf pack by itself, it just needs to be able to heavily punish any individual Romulan Warbird that tries to swoop in on an attack run or isolate an escort. Full coverage is great but it's not enough if it's not enough firepower.
 
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While I like the aesthetics of the Arrowhead hull (most especially because we've made a lot of Saucer-style ships) it kinda just seems objectively worse, especially for this situation.
And that makes me feel sad. You're right, but I want pointy arrows that go zoom!

Not for this build in particular, just somepoint again.
i know people are going to lean towards the all angle coverage but the ability to concentrate as much as the firepower on a single target seems at least as important. This ship is presumably always going to be escorted. If the best Romulan tactic is trying to fight a Starfleet task force while constrained to a fairly narrow window of attack, that's still valuable. But a DN that's designed such it can't really bring that much firepower onto a single target if needed is missing the point of trying to breach shields as fast as possible.

It doesn't need to be able to withstand a Romulan wolf pack by itself, it just needs to be able to heavily punish any individual Romulan Warbird that tries to swoop in on an attack run or isolate an escort. Full coverage is great but it's not enough if it's not enough firepower.
It really depends on manuverabilty then, in that, can a few warbirds decloak, destroy or severly damage an escort, tanking the return fire on it's shields, and then recloak, before the arrowhead gets into position to melt an attacker, or will the arrowhead's extra engines allow for sufficent turning?

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For me personally, I want the potential future refit capabilities too much to pick arrowhead, but if we do go for it, we should go maximum on the engines.
 
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Thinking half saucer. The primary tactical advantages the Romulans have are cloaking, which means they can approach from any direction, and shields, which means a concentrated and focused barrage is needed to actually damage them. Since we can only address one of these issues with the Bulwark, we'll probably have to use our other ships as an escorts to cover the deficiency.

Since the NXs are more durable and survivable than the Stingrays, I would prefer to use them and their all around coverage to protect the rear weak spot of the Bulwark, leaving a forward firepower option as the best option. To help with that, half saucer for Torpedos and more space for utilities. Primary downside is increased cost from the secondary hull, but we can deal with that.
 
I think we should try to hammer out what exactly the ship ought to be used for, that'll let us inform our design decisions. Whatever we do, we want it optimized to hell.

If we go for Arrowhead, that's 'very killy in fore and sides' and 'more engine, more zoom', along with cargo and docking. The price is easy fore torps and utility hull space. Now, I think the latter two could be mitigated with a secondary hull, but that is not guaranteed and might cut into the 'zoom' bit.
This would serve well as the head of a fast-response or attack fleet, drop out of warp and start blasting the hell out of fools. If the plan is 'speedrun their shipyards', this is the boat we'd likely do it with. Disadvantages are the vulnerability to ambush, so you'll need to give it escorts in its softer arcs.

The saucer feels much more 'line of battle', or 'fleet anchor'. It's the only one you'd be able to send out alone, not that that's ever smart to do with a warship, but eh. You could plop it down in the middle of a fleet and it'd basically do everything a normal ship does, but bigger.
This is the generic general-purpose option for doing all of the war things pretty okay. Use it as the core of a fleet, but it's not going to warrant any special tactics or provide any particular advantages other than just being big.

Now the half-saucer intrigues me. Presumably we'll be able to fit torps and go heavier on the engines, basically do everything the other two ships do but a little worse. It's the compromise pick, but that may not be such a bad thing. If we go for half-saucer, we're essentially going full Manta Ray, which I know some folks will enjoy.

Folks, I must be honest - my heart is crying out to me for arrowhead. But half-saucer is a good alternative.
 
It really depends on manuverabilty then, in that, can a few warbirds decloak, destroy or severly damage an escort, tanking the return fire on it's shields, and then recloak, before the arrowhead gets into position to melt an attacker, or will the arrowhead's extra engines allow for sufficent turning?

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For me personally, I want the potential future refit capabilities too much to pick arrowhead, but if we do go for it, we should go maximum on the engines
I'm inclined to think it's hard to pull off both the attack run and disengage without presenting some kind of shot to the Arrowhead, or at the very least not without a pretty compromised trajectory the rest of the fleet can exploit- but I'll freely admit we're in the realm of conjecture here and at least part of me is motivated by 'Arrowhead with a secondary hull would be neat aesthetic deviation for what's probably going to be a pretty unique design'
 
[ ] Full Saucer

The full saucer just plain gives us more options.
More coverage with the phase cannons means that the ship can go more places without necessarily dragging a whole battlegroup with her. More Torpedoes mean that it can fire an even bigger opening Salvo.

And more internal space means that it can haul more equipment for sustainment, scanning, analysis, etc.

It might not mount a many engines, but this is a battleship. Any butterfly floating nonsense is going to be by comparison to its peers not in an absolute sense.
 
'Arrowhead with a secondary hull would be neat aesthetic deviation for what's probably going to be a pretty unique design'
mood

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What we really need someday is some sort of technobabble that lets us design an arrowhead looking ship - 'cuz they're frickin' cool, but with the capabilities of a saucer/half saucer, 'cuz they are SCIENCE!. And good fields of fire, I suppose.
 
Either half or full saucer we need to give them torpedos and enough munitions as we saw that phase cannons are easier to disable during combat and this ship is meant to draw enemy fire
 
mood

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What we really need someday is some sort of technobabble that lets us design an arrowhead looking ship - 'cuz they're frickin' cool, but with the capabilities of a saucer/half saucer, 'cuz they are SCIENCE!. And good fields of fire, I suppose.

I think they're a lot more defensible on a smaller attack ship that can expect to be the nimbler combatant rather than on our biggest fleet anchor. We really want this to be able to drive through an enemy formation and fire in all directions while soaking fire.

This is especially true considering we've only seen smaller ships so far. There's nothing to focus a frontal firing arc on.
 
A full saucer seems like a wise decision for ensuring coverage, knowing how maneuverable and sneaky our opponents are. Being able to cover as many angles as we can will mitigate their element of surprise considerably. However, if we're looking to breach shields, the arrowhead is a good idea. We just need to make sure that it's escorted in such a way that it can turn its considerable weight of fire, even if it's just one side's guns, onto a target before it slips away.

If we do decide on the arrowhead, I think a focus on the engine size and quality is going to need to be a priority. We don't need it to be zipping around, but it needs to have a good turning speed if that's the case.

Even still, I'm leaning towards the half or full-saucer primary hull options. This vessel really should be a fleet anchor. As much as I'd love to have a big arrowhead in the fleet, it really is the sort of hull design that's best optimized on something like a light or medium cruiser at most, something that is going to have the dexterity to put its nose on a target and keep it there.
 
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Like the majority, I'm leaning towards full saucer. Taking inspiration from the Vulcans and Andorians is an excellent choice, but at the moment we need the 360 coverage. Without the strip phasers, this is our only option for that.
 
[X] Half-Saucer

I love the arrowhead idea, but better torpedoes were mentioned as being under development and I want room for that.
 
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1.I think they're a lot more defensible on a smaller attack ship that can expect to be the nimbler combatant rather than on our biggest fleet anchor. We really want this to be able to drive through an enemy formation and fire in all directions while soaking fire.

2. This is especially true considering we've only seen smaller ships so far. There's nothing to focus a frontal firing arc on.

1. I agree with this entirely
2. I think we have very different ideas/mental images here, but my brain is very very sore, and we agree on point 1.

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Arrows should be fast. And manuverable. Just like in IRL.
 
1. I agree with this entirely
2. I think we have very different ideas/mental images here, but my brain is very very sore, and we agree on point 1.

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Arrows should be fast. And manuverable. Just like in IRL.

I think an arrowhead battlecruiser to fit in between our new battleship and existing heavy cruiser might be an option in the future.
 
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