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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Turning failure into advantage... I think trying to minimize the failure here is the wrong approach. I think we should try to spin what we're doing here as an advantage. I.e. We desire to keep the Sendai girls alive and happy without them having to make others suffer. We can do that. Even Akiko has a conscience. She accepted somehow that her tax on the UG was necessary but she isn't a sadist.
 
[] Muramasa.
Maybe the plan where we don't attempt diplomacy is the right one. Let's let Sendai take care of their friend.
 
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Onmur said:
She got results. Most of them were bad shit. But she did accomplish something, and she did it for them.

They should acknowledge both of those things. Right now they're trying to help her back back into her senses, but look at this shit:

They're afraid of her. She needs them. I think that part of the vote is not about justifying Akiko's methods but about reminding the other girls that they're in this together.

Sakura and Rin seem ready to call Akiko on her shit, so the group is not a lost cause.

EDIT: Basically, loyalty to one's friends is good. It's their blind loyalty that's bad.
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I think you're misreading their relationship a bit here -
Firnagzen said:
"Yeah, I guess," Sakura says. "Fuck. Look, try and understand our fucking position. Akiko's a fucking good leader, right? She's kept us good with Grief Seeds for fucking years."
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- and that they followed because, as and when she got results. Their loyalty - not friendship - was predicated on them seeing the modicum of extra security her policies bought, but not having the fact that they were justifiably hated and feared brought to their attention too much. They're not afraid of her; the chickens are coming home to roost, the externalities are in play, and their loyalty is crumbling as a direct result.
They're probably a bit disgusted with themselves, they're probably a lot disgusted with her, and this is neither unreasonable nor particularly undesirable.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at, but attempting to prop her up, to force loyalty on them - 'she made killers of you for your sake! You owe her!' - seems to pretty much directly undermine our position here, not to mention being kinda fucked up.

Edit: That, or they're just worried about the possibility that the bad-crazy is contagious. :V
 
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Yeah, no, while we can try talking to her, that vote's a)messed up, b)won't work the way we want it to, c)goes against what we're trying to do for Sendai.

"Akiko was onto something with the whole starving people thing- it really helped keep you alive" is not going to be helpful for the rest of the group...or anyone really. Including Akiko.
 
Well, background thinking for hours didn't give me any brilliant ideas.

I'm trying to get this point across: 'Akiko did 98% bad shit and 2% good. And it was all so you could enjoy that 2%.'

The problem I see with is that this is so not the time to point out how they're all guilty of that 98%. That leaves me with half a sentence.

I understand the point of just not even trying. I don't know if there's an amazing way to phrase this in a way that won't backfire.
Ugolino said:
"Akiko was onto something with the whole starving people thing- it really helped keep you alive" is not going to be helpful for the rest of the group...or anyone really. Including Akiko.
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It's not quite about helping them. They're the ones who should be helping fix this mess they made. I get it that they're in a bad place, but unless we take Akiko and sink our time taking care of her ourselves, she's gonna be left in Sendai's capable hands. That's messed up as it is.

It's possibly there's no need to say anything right now. I can't even phrase things the right way. Unless something just clicks in my mind, it's likely better to not attempt social.

Muramasa's vote's winning, so that's that unless the thread explodes while I'm sleeping.
 
Yeah, it's the focus on the results that's wrong here... can't think of a good way to hit the right notes on intent either.

It just...it sucks to (justifiably) destroy someone's life and then leave them with nothing, not even the support of their friends. Like, it sucks enough that I'm pretty choked up about it IRL.

And I'm legitimately worried for someone who is that broken. People who are grief spiraling don't ask for help. We saw it with Sayaka in canon and with Mami in this very quest. I wouldn't be nearly as worried if Yumi, Sakura, or Rin had it together, but they don't. Yes, it was necessary to break their loyalty and any illusions they had about what they were doing, but that was also what was holding their group together.

If Sendai don't pull it together in the next update, saying nothing is no longer going to be viable. I'm willing to wait and see, but to leave if nothing changes? In the worst case, some platitudes are made, Akiko quietly witches overnight, and tomorrow we deal with four traumatized girls rather than one.​
 
I'm going to say the same thing about Akiko that I did about Oriko.

Akiko is a young, very thoroughly traumatized girl. There is literally nothing she could do that would put her outside the Golden Ending.
 
Random832 said:
@Firnagzen if we decide to start going to school, are you going to let us be a handwaved "transfer student", or make us spend eleven updates figuring out a cover story, negotiating with school administrators, etc?
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The latter, though maybe not eleven.
landcollector said:
I'm sure coobs would be willing to magic the proper paperwork into being, for a price. [Note: This is not a serious suggestion, nor should it be even remotely considered].
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Well, it would, yes.
Muramasa said:
Eh, I'll stick to Firn's request of 'points. Not phrasing.'
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Unless you want a specific phrasing.
 
linkhyrule5 said:
I'm going to say the same thing about Akiko that I did about Oriko.

Akiko is a young, very thoroughly traumatized girl. There is literally nothing she could do that would put her outside the Golden Ending.
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You know, I've seen kids living in houses for people with motor/mental disabilities simply due to having anger management issues. Those are kids that are looked after by several professionals studied in psychology of various sorts.

A teenager leading her own life and that of her friends while ignoring her own PTSD? This shit is so messed up.
 
Note: I'm still for Mura's proposal for this update; not changing that. However I agree with SWB and Onmur that something needs to be said before we leave (assuming we're not staying here for this all to play out). So, in the same vein as Onmur's suggestions, I'll try tossing out various ideas on what we could say.

General form:

[] We're leaving her here with you. As much as I have problems with what Akiko has done, I don't hate her, and don't like leaving her like this. However there's nothing I can do to help her right now; I don't know enough about what's happened, nor do I have the history with her to be a welcomed face. She needs her friends with her to make sure she can make it out of whatever darkness she's buried herself in. Don't give up on her, don't let her deal with it alone, and don't leave her alone, no matter what she does or says.

~ Potential hints of having gone through this with Mami as well.

If the rest of the crew can't quite get their act together:

[] Is she your friend, or is she merely a responsibility — someone you were loyal to as your leader, but not particularly close to? Because right now, she needs her friends. And right now, that's not me; I can't help her out of this. I don't like what she's done, and I'll fight against her methods, but that's not relevant at the moment. Right now, she needs her friends to stay with her, listen to her, and care for her. Don't leave her alone.

If their friendship and loyalty remains strongly intact:

[] OK. Good. Stay with her; don't leave her alone. I don't think my presence would be welcome, and despite our differences, I don't want to actually hurt her, just stop her. I'd recommend keeping a constant watch over her, and always keep grief seeds handy, regardless of whether she says she's OK. Just... well, she's your friend; you understand.

If Akiko regains some lucidity:

[] We can talk about our differences later; now isn't the time. I don't like what you're doing, but I'm not trying to hurt you or kill you. You've got your friends here to support you, so let them. They're not going to abandon you — they didn't abandon you — so take some time to get your head straightened out. I know I have to do it from time to time, when I let my obsessions overtake my reason. Everyone has that bit of darkness inside them that threatens to swallow you whole; your friends are there to keep you from losing yourself to it.
 
Fuck. Fuck this situation. Fuck Kyubey for making magical girls this way, and fuck human beings for being so awful to each other.

I've been looking at this the wrong way. This isn't about logic, accomplishments, motives, loyalty... this is a purely emotional problem. On everyone's part.



[x]Put your grief away, or move it far from here. Ask Mami to unbind her. Untransform. Back off and give them space. Minimize how you threaten her in any way.
[x]If any of Sendai still looks lost (looking at you, Sakura, Rin. maybe Yumi), gently draw their attention.
-[x]Put as much genuine emotion into your voice as you can muster:
--[x]"She needs you."
[x]Watch and leave it to Sendai for now. If Akiko's gem looks bad, warn them to use a grief seed.
-[x]Telepathy Mami. See if she has any ideas.
 
[x]Put your grief away, or move it far from here. Ask Mami to unbind her. Untransform. Back off and give them space. Minimize how you threaten her in any way.
[x]If any of Sendai still looks lost (looking at you, Sakura, Rin. maybe Yumi), gently draw their attention.
-[x]Put as much genuine emotion into your voice as you can muster:
--[x]"She needs you."
[x]Watch and leave it to Sendai for now. If Akiko's gem looks bad, warn them to use a grief seed.
-[x]Telepathy Mami. See if she has any ideas.
 
[x]Put your grief away, or move it far from here. Ask Mami to unbind her. Untransform. Back off and give them space. Minimize how you threaten her in any way.
[x]If any of Sendai still looks lost (looking at you, Sakura, Rin. maybe Yumi), gently draw their attention.
-[x]Put as much genuine emotion into your voice as you can muster:
--[x]"She needs you."
[x]Watch and leave it to Sendai for now. If Akiko's gem looks bad, warn them to use a grief seed.
-[x]Telepathy Mami. See if she has any ideas.

I can get behind this.
 
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