Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Ergo we must shell Marienburg, because the laborurer, dockworkers, etc, that live there don't count.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ergo we must shell Marienburg, because the laborurer, dockworkers, etc, that live there don't count.
An enemy of Barak Varr is not necessarily an enemy of the Karaz Ankor, as Mathilde had just informed the Chancellor, the Karaks can be negotiated with independently.
Yes and that is acknowledged in that they would have less economic flexibility to crash raise a new levy force if need be. Not in that current forces will disintegrate, drawdowns happen to the military last, quality of life first.
Yep, it explicitly does. I think that's an example given. It's modelled, as I say, on the Unequal Treaties between the European colonial powers and nineteenth century China.
News leaks.
China did for many decades. It's a real thing from the real world. Many Chinese people found it offensive, to say the least. Sucked to be them.
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Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
We shell military targets with Dwarven precision, as stated by WOG. The dwarves will try their best to not hit civilians at all.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
What book is this treaty recorded in?
The Empire is not importing food from marinburg. Are you actually serious right now?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Mathilde in fact just noted that whilst they have different interests and can do things without the approval of Karaz-A-Karak, they explicitly share their values and their enemies, and project an image of unity.
- Location
- Finland
What, you think dwarves are going to pay money for random imperial citizens out of job?
I very much doubt it.
I mean it would be nice, but this is not a setting where i would expect to find anykind of robust safety nets.
FOOD COSTS MONEY!
How hard is this to understand.
The kind of trade disruption blockade will causes has ripple effects, people will loose their jobs, their homes, their incomes, and with those, the ability to buy money.
I can no longer tell if you are being obtuse intentionally or not.
Historically, most polities that impose a blockade like this, blocking off one of their major trading partners, ended up hurting themselves more than anyone else. When the Confederacy self-imposed a cotton blockade, the rest of the world found other sources of cotton (most famously from Egypt). When OPEC self-imposed production limits, it raised the cost of oil so high that previously unprofitable oil reservoirs suddenly became profitable. Now the world's largest consumer of oil actually exports oil instead of buying from OPEC. Yes, the Marienburg blockade will be annoying in the short term, but even if the canal projects fail, the natural response of Empire citizens finding new trade routes and enlarging existing ones to handle the sudden increase in demand will put the Empire in a better position relative to Marienburg, and make their return more likely in the future.
There's every reason to expect the Empire to be able to weather this tempest in a teapot. Even the vote options make it clear that the Empire will survive this. It'll weaken the Empire, temporarily. Not kill it. Yes, individual Elector Counts are currently dealing with a number of problems. But the Empire is not. The Empire is not facing any immediate crises, which makes this the best possible time to go through with this. Individual Elector Counts will always be dealing with a number of crises. Having powerful Elector Counts who can be relied on to deal with local problems with no or minimal aid from the Empire is one of the few strengths of the system.
Shoot, if Marienburg really imposes a blockade, that just incentivizes all the existing river trade companies to invest in facilities to ship through the new canals when they open. Suddenly all the wealth that was flowing to a self-declared enemy of the Empire will be flowing into one of its, and our, allies.
[X] They can make up for the loss in trade
Also approval voting this because anything is less stupid than converting an economic gambit we're winning into a war we might lose.
[X] For sufficient concessions
There's every reason to expect the Empire to be able to weather this tempest in a teapot. Even the vote options make it clear that the Empire will survive this. It'll weaken the Empire, temporarily. Not kill it. Yes, individual Elector Counts are currently dealing with a number of problems. But the Empire is not. The Empire is not facing any immediate crises, which makes this the best possible time to go through with this. Individual Elector Counts will always be dealing with a number of crises. Having powerful Elector Counts who can be relied on to deal with local problems with no or minimal aid from the Empire is one of the few strengths of the system.
Shoot, if Marienburg really imposes a blockade, that just incentivizes all the existing river trade companies to invest in facilities to ship through the new canals when they open. Suddenly all the wealth that was flowing to a self-declared enemy of the Empire will be flowing into one of its, and our, allies.
[X] They can make up for the loss in trade
Also approval voting this because anything is less stupid than converting an economic gambit we're winning into a war we might lose.
[X] For sufficient concessions
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Alratan could you share where you are getting your information? Because it goes much further then Word of Boney and my own reading. The Asur have a diplomatic enclave in Marienburg yes but they also have them in every coastal city and in Altdorf. They don't rule Marienburg in all but name.
- Location
- Earth
Military forces require supplies to operate. If the flow of goods in the Empire is disrupted from an economic crisis, then all those supply lines falter, and political decisions will begin to emphasize the short term-- and that's how you get things like vampires and greenskins regaining their footholds and becoming greater threats again.
Look, these are the things that'll happen when the empire's economy starts falling down:
1) A lot of people in the various urban centers of the empire are now making less money.
2) As a consequence, they can't buy goods and services and pay taxes like they used to.
3)a) The poor people in the cities who provided them service now have no money to buy essentials.
3)b) The people in the country who sold food, wood, metal and other such materials are now selling a fair lot less of all of it. They aren't starving but they aren't doing amazing.
3)c) The governments, local, provincial and Imperial is now collecting less taxes, which means they'll cut the budget. This budget is not always very well allocated but one of the important expenses which may get cut because it can't be afforded as much anymore is the military.
4) The people in the country who used to be merely 'not amazing' are now 'literally being killed', because they are the ones feeling the military budget cuts. The starving cities are more important and harder to replace long-term, so they are ironically far better protected.
5) Giving them breathing room leads to the threats to the Empire starting to scale up, because that is always what they do when they win at the local level. Greenskins level up as they win battles, Chaos cults become more popular among the dissatisfied masses, various opportunists try their luck.
1) A lot of people in the various urban centers of the empire are now making less money.
2) As a consequence, they can't buy goods and services and pay taxes like they used to.
3)a) The poor people in the cities who provided them service now have no money to buy essentials.
3)b) The people in the country who sold food, wood, metal and other such materials are now selling a fair lot less of all of it. They aren't starving but they aren't doing amazing.
3)c) The governments, local, provincial and Imperial is now collecting less taxes, which means they'll cut the budget. This budget is not always very well allocated but one of the important expenses which may get cut because it can't be afforded as much anymore is the military.
4) The people in the country who used to be merely 'not amazing' are now 'literally being killed', because they are the ones feeling the military budget cuts. The starving cities are more important and harder to replace long-term, so they are ironically far better protected.
5) Giving them breathing room leads to the threats to the Empire starting to scale up, because that is always what they do when they win at the local level. Greenskins level up as they win battles, Chaos cults become more popular among the dissatisfied masses, various opportunists try their luck.
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The canal itself is a trade disruption. Blood is in every direction in Warhammer, as in real life. The fact that you have found a spec opon the path you oppose does not mean the ocean of blood you advocate for becomes the cleaner.
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- She/Her
The solution is socalism. Join the The Glorious Revolution of the People (Reformed) today! (yes they are a real part of the setting, at least in twenty years)
- Location
- Finland
Oh fuck off.
The blockage breaking is an end point of a series of negotiations, and do not constitute and "ocean of blood".
Hell, i'm not even convinced that it would cause greater loss of life than the trade disruptions from just thoughing it out with dwarven help (outside Pheonix King going insane for some weird reason and starting War of the Beard 2: War harder, but to me that seems so unlikely outcome that i might as well get worried of the Slann getting involved).
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- Earth
Let's take a step back and calm down. That's going a bit too far.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
And here we were so close to going a full day.
The Slaan deciding the Old World needs a new mountain range again is the worst case scenario ever, yes.
- Location
- The internet
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade
[X] No, but they would fight beside you
[X] No, but they would fight beside you
- Location
- Finland
Claiming the i am calling for an ocean of blood or my response to it?
Because i am going to agree with one of those.
YEah, but it ain't going to happen because of this vote.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
That'd be a very strong point if the Dwarves wouldn't be able to pony up the money to stop this being a problem, except they can. So really it's not a point at all and yea trade disruption is a terrible thing. Altdorf and a few other provinces stand to have entire industries basically turned on their head because they're all trying to service a place that will soon have significantly less traffic.
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- Finland
Are they going to give that money to the actual people who lost their jobs, or the imperial government?
Dwarves making up for the lost trade is not some magical panacea that makes the effects of trade disruption disappear, it just makes them surviveable.