Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Mostly what I expect is narrative consequences for K8P, rather than mechanical benefits for us except maybe a larger turn-to-turn Library budget. I'm thinking that it will be easier to civilize this area of the world, and to keep our hold safe in the long-term, if there is a reason for non-dwarves to care about K8P. A large collection of difficult-to-acquire books, neatly sorted and made available for visitors to study, is the sort of thing that makes people care.
 
Besides which, has anyone realized that the Library-Sanctuary-Research Institute looks a whole lot like sedition from the Colleges?

If we are going to spend the Boon on something that's a Branch College with the numbers filled off, we might as well do it properly.

But here's where the beauty of saving it for an opportunity or as a trump card come in: all the ducks are neatly lined up, but chance might dictate they never go down, for one reason or another.

The Waystones project is liable to make the Colleges decide that this merit is a full on Branch College. Given we'd need Belegar's permission to do it, that's essentially the Great Library-Institute-Sanctuary taken care of.

But they might not, if only just. There is where we can come in, cash in our favors and make out like a bandit, with every party thanking us for it.
 
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These I believe, are the four elements of the Great Library/Center of Learning idea.
The only thing that could be added is another charter for a permanent College branch, again to be implemented as we in tandem with the Patriarchs, or our successor in tandem with his Patriarchs decide. Again within limits and laws comfortable to King Belegar.
Essentially this is necessary because the Colleges in Altdorf will not accept that the non-magical University itself also directly administers magical education to Journeymen and such. Wether any Wizard will ever be educated here under traditions other than those of the eight Imperial Colleges is a whole nother can of worms.

@TotallyNotEvil The difference would be that this one is built under Dwarf laws, with Dwarf organization and administration skills, and open to all races friendly to the Dwarves. That includes religions willing to share knowledge, heretical but not Dhar inducing opinions, less Imperium-style discrimination, easier access to southern human nationals and other similar benefits. It would also be located in what is quickly becoming the most progressive and open-minded Karak in the world, with Dwarves constantly in contact with all that knowledge, research and discussion. Some of it is bound rub off on them. All in all it has the potential to empower K8P and the Karaz Ankor as a whole in ways that haven't been done in a long time, and maybe even influence their culture for the good of all.

So I favor a bounty system.
It has clear benefits. But it is also clearly the very worst option for the We themselves. They give up their independence and their Hunter caste becomes obsolete, yet they don't even get a steady and guaranteed food income, nor do they get one that Belegar and his Council have direct control over.
 
[X] [BOON] Save it until the Karak is wealthy enough to afford my ambition.
[X] [ROOM] Vault
[X] [ROOM] Shrine to Ranald
[X] [ROOM] Training Hall
[X] [ROOM] Guest Room
[X] [ROOM] Wolf's Room
[X] [LIBRARY] Linguistics (Dwarf Antiquarian), The Eonir of Laurelorn (Imperial Extensive & Esoteric, Dwarf Extensive), Waystones (Imperial Extensive, Dwarf Extensive)
[x] [COLLEGE] 5 favors for a full translation of the Cathayan books
 
@TotallyNotEvil The difference would be that this one is built under Dwarf laws, with Dwarf organization and administration skills, and open to all races friendly to the Dwarves. That includes religions willing to share knowledge, heretical but not Dhar inducing opinions, less Imperium-style discrimination, easier access to southern human nationals and other similar benefits. It would also be located in what is quickly becoming the most progressive and open-minded Karak in the world, with Dwarves constantly in contact with all that knowledge, research and discussion. Some of it is bound rub off on them. All in all it has the potential to empower K8P and the Karaz Ankor as a whole in ways that haven't been done in a long time, and maybe even influence their culture for the good of all.
You've just mostly described the University of Altdorf and the Colleges of Magic.

In fact, there's less discrimination in Altdorf than in the Karak: elves are as welcome as dwarves to the humans.

Remeber that this is not the Imperium. This is not the Mechanicus. The Colleges and the University do most of which you want already.

For the rest, filling the serial numbers off of a Branch College doesn't make it not a Branch College. And what you want is to create the University of Magic and Sciences of Karak 8 Peaks.

So call it what it is, do it properly, and reap the benefits. Or don't do it.
 
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[X] [WE] Scavenge the Gauntlet
[X] [BOON] I know just what to spend it on...

[X] [ROOM] Vault
[X] [ROOM] Shrine to Ranald
[X] [ROOM] Firing Range
[X] [ROOM] Trophy Room
[X] [ROOM] Guest Room

[X] [LIBRARY] Linguistics (Dwarf Antiquarian), The Eonir of Laurelorn (Imperial Extensive & Esoteric, Dwarf Extensive), Waystones (Imperial Extensive, Dwarf Extensive)

[x] [COLLEGE] 5 favors for a full translation of the Cathayan books
 
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You've just mostly described the University of Altdorf and the Colleges of Magic.

In fact, there's less discrimination in Altdorf than in the Karak: elves are as welcome as dwarves to the humans.

Remeber that this is not the Imperium. This is not the Mechanicus. The Colleges and the University do most of which you want already.

For the rest, filling the serial numbers off of a Branch College doesn't make it not a Branch College. And what you want is to create the University of Magic and Sciences of Karak 8 Peaks.

So call it what it is, do it properly, and reap the benefits. Or don't do it.
Yeah, openness is not something anyone should come to a Karak to get.

The major advantages of putting something in Karak Eight peaks over somewhere in the Empire like Altdorf are no ridiculous imperial politics in the way of things and way better security against infiltration by Chaos, since you can always fill sensitive positions with dwarves.
 
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[X] [WE] Scavenge the Gauntlet
[X] [WE] Hunt the Mountains

I think hunt the mountains should be in addition to any of the others - as Loremaster more explorers is desirable for us.

[X] [BOON] I know just what to spend it on...

[X] [ROOM] Vault
[X] [ROOM] Guest Room
[X] [ROOM] Wolf's Room
[X] [ROOM] Gyrocopter Hangar

[X] [LIBRARY] Linguistics (Dwarf Antiquarian), The Eonir of Laurelorn (Imperial Extensive & Esoteric, Dwarf Extensive), Waystones (Imperial Extensive, Dwarf Extensive)
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
[X] [COLLEGE] 5 favors for a full translation of the Cathayan books
 
Omegahugger: I have only had the Karak-We for a day and a half, but if anything happens to them, I would kill myself and then everyone in the room.
WAY AHEAD OF YOU
I added "the spiders are precious and must be protected" to the tags.

I mean, their reaction to figuring out "the not-we other-we thinks our silk is great" was to start leaving surplus silk for our people to bring upstairs, unprompted.

Like, this is where I'm at right now:
 
[X] [WE] Hunt the Mountains
[X] [BOON] I know just what to spend it on...
[X] [ROOM] Vault
[X] [ROOM] Shrine to Ranald
[X] [ROOM] Guest Room
[X] [LIBRARY] Linguistics (Dwarf Antiquarian), The Eonir of Laurelorn (Imperial Extensive & Esoteric, Dwarf Extensive), Waystones (Imperial Extensive, Dwarf Extensive)
[x] [COLLEGE] 5 favors for a full translation of the Cathayan books
[X] [DWARF] Have a Grandmaster Engineer have a go at the Stirland Repeater - 8 favors

So long as they pay back the protein I guess, but I don't think that humans or dwarfs want to eat spiders.
There was a scene during the original expedition to take K8P where Belegar was roasting spider legs to eat - so while spiders aren't a preferred food source if they turn out to be edible humans/dwarfs not really wanting to eat them doesn't disqualify them from being emergency rations. Especially considering that Belegar's Spider Roast wasn't even during a supply crunch, so clearly not everyone feels the same way about eating spiders.

That's is modern silk though. Not silk whose only currently known source is across a massive region known for killing almost everything that makes the mistake of wandering in.
Yeah, the real reason educating the We is taking so long is that they've been galaxy-brain analyzing the information they're being given in order to derive sophisticated modern economic theory from darn near first principles. :V


Conquering the Border princes.
You know, there's actually the seed of a decent Boon idea here. The trouble with the Border Princes is that there isn't really any good strategic barriers that would allow the region to hold off Waaaghs from the Badlands, which combined with relatively low value land means nobody really bothers.

One idea for a Transcendent Boon is to spend the next few centuries (or whatever sort of timeline is appropriate) building something along the lines of the Great Wall of China to create a serious strategic barrier where nature failed to provide one. It's definitely in the "might break the Karak" scale and is of somewhat dubious practicality, but the idea of turning a Transcendent Boon from a dwarf into a series of fortifications of almost unprecedented scale is surprisingly dwarfy.
 
Then use the College's. It's already there.
It's not though, that's the problem. Otherwise we wouldn't be buying our own books at all.
So call it what it is, do it properly, and reap the benefits. Or don't do it.
That's the other problem (this isn't directed at you in particular); I don't want to do those things.

Like, again with the co-opting, I just want books. I want lots of books. A ton of them. Ours. I don't want a branch college, or a place with a bunch of students, or even necessarily an entrenched scholarly population, just a gigantic stone place in our basement filled with interesting reading material.

That this would attract scholars as a matter of flavor isn't abhorrent to me. I wouldn't mind it. That other people would think we were pretty cool for having a billion books would be nice. But the boon isn't for their sake. Other people might want similar looking things with very different focuses, I guess. Some might want students, or to drag in other experts. Some might want to create some sort of scholarly sanctuary outside the empire. I understand compromise. But the idea of the boon I suggested was to have a cool library. Not a cool school or museum, or for a cool library to exist somewhere as some sort of beacon of learning and cultural values in the Old World, but to have a library that is ours and is cool.

And the assumption that B O O K is just going to be going ahead with this omni-disciplinarian, scholarly mess instead of anything more focused, and so it must be opposed, or was done better elsewhere and so we shouldn't even try, does kind of make me unhappy.
 
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Just had a thought: Anton got the prince to give away the knowledge for the new gun, right?

Won't the Dwarven Engineer Guild be super pissed with the prince and with Anton and with the Empire if we bring in a Master Engineer from the Guild to help Anton build better guns based on "stolen" dwarven designs? Do remember, the dwarven prince gave those away in a roll off, and Mat had to flee so she would not be complicit, as the one who saw what would happen.

Either one of them can genuinely claim innoecent in "trying to steal dwarven secrets", But Mat might struggle with the same if a dwarven Master Engineer blames Anton and her for it, when he finds he's been given a job to improve on stolen dwarven secrets.
 
[X] [WE] Economic Integration

Honestly I find all the talk of preserving their culture and what-not kind of patronizing. They're intelligent creatures that can make those decision themselves. They'll be better able to make those sorts of decisions with what they'll learn from better integration then being shooed out into the mountains away from people to serve as the Dwarves early warning system against new mountain neighbors.

[X] [BOON] Save it until the Karak is wealthy enough to afford my ambition.
[X] [BOON] Save it as a trump card to exploit an opportunity or address an emergency.
[X] [BOON] I have no idea what to spend it on. Put the matter aside for now.

Not a big fan of immediately doing any of the Boon ideas being thrown out right now.

Also on the Repeater favor buy, are people sure we should be having Dwarves look at the Repeater instead of the Repeater factory?
 
lets vote. Hmmmm

[X] [WE] Scavenge the Gauntlet

Edit: @Ol' Tin Knight convinced me to change my vote from paying for their food into scavenging the gauntlet. Original reasoning for that spoilered for posterity.

The we are waaaaymore valuable to the races of order as producers. Their armour changes the rules of the game. Heck, their silk would be very valuable today for construction and/or making light armour better than kevlar, although it would not as game changing. Better teach them early to optimize as such.

[X] [BOON] Save it as a trump card to exploit an opportunity or address an emergency.

What can I say, I like contingencies.

Edit

[X] [BOON] I know just what to spend it on...

Since my fav ain't winning, let's approval vote my second fav

end edit

[X] [ROOM] Shrine to Ranald
The room where you mugged Mork with Him is all well and good, but something convenient and private might be nice.

Contractually obligated to vote for that.

[X] [ROOM] Trophy Room
Your collection of mementos is growing large and impressive enough to deserve a room to itself, complete with tasteful little plaques describing the circumstances under which you acquired each piece.

Well, we need somewhere to place a ton of ash that we'll ask as a memento

[X] [ROOM] Guest Room
For when you have visitors; can fit three comfortably, or up to six if enough of them are on good terms with each other.

May be useful for diplomacy

[X] [ROOM] Wolf's Room
He sleeps at the foot of your bed, but he'd probably appreciate a room of his own for midday naps and playing with the Wolf-Rats.

Just yes


I'll leave favour and money purchases to others, as there is nothing that draws me but also no reason for me to put my foot now and say "no", as we are not lacking for resources. Well, I do want Waystone books and Eonir books, but everyone is voting for that anyway, and voting for every single purchase option presented would be a hassle.
 
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Just had a thought: Anton got the prince to give away the knowledge for the new gun, right?

Won't the Dwarven Engineer Guild be super pissed with the prince and with Anton and with the Empire if we bring in a Master Engineer from the Guild to help Anton build better guns based on "stolen" dwarven designs? Do remember, the dwarven prince gave those away in a roll off, and Mat had to flee so she would not be complicit, as the one who saw what would happen.

Either one of them can genuinely claim innoecent in "trying to steal dwarven secrets", But Mat might struggle with the same if a dwarven Master Engineer blames Anton and her for it, when he finds he's been given a job to improve on stolen dwarven secrets.
This got brought up a while back, and I think Word of Boney was that technically Gotri was allowed to do this in his role as the Grandmaster of the K8P's Engineer's Guild, but it's something that Longbeards and Elders will be arguing about in private for decades.
 
lets vote. Hmmmm

[X] [WE] Economic Integration

The we are waaaaymore valuable to the races of order as producers. Their armour changes the rules of the game. Heck, their silk would be very valuable today for construction and/or making light armour better than kevlar, although it would not as game changing. Better teach them early to optimize as such.

[X] [BOON] Save it as a trump card to exploit an opportunity or address an emergency.

What can I say, I like contingencies.

[X] [ROOM] Shrine to Ranald
The room where you mugged Mork with Him is all well and good, but something convenient and private might be nice.

Contractually obligated to vote for that.

[X] [ROOM] Trophy Room
Your collection of mementos is growing large and impressive enough to deserve a room to itself, complete with tasteful little plaques describing the circumstances under which you acquired each piece.

Well, we need somewhere to place a ton of ash that we'll ask as a memento

[X] [ROOM] Guest Room
For when you have visitors; can fit three comfortably, or up to six if enough of them are on good terms with each other.

May be useful for diplomacy

[X] [ROOM] Wolf's Room
He sleeps at the foot of your bed, but he'd probably appreciate a room of his own for midday naps and playing with the Wolf-Rats.

Just yes


I'll leave favour and money purchases to others, as there is nothing that draws me but also no reason for me to put my foot now and say "no", as we are not lacking for resources. Well, I do want Waystone books and Eonir books, but everyone is voting for that anyway, and voting for every single purchase option presented would be a hassle.
If you don't want to spend the boon right now might as well approval vote for the "until the Karak is wealthy enough", since the vote to use it right now is winning
 
Just had a thought: Anton got the prince to give away the knowledge for the new gun, right?

Won't the Dwarven Engineer Guild be super pissed with the prince and with Anton and with the Empire if we bring in a Master Engineer from the Guild to help Anton build better guns based on "stolen" dwarven designs? Do remember, the dwarven prince gave those away in a roll off, and Mat had to flee so she would not be complicit, as the one who saw what would happen.

Either one of them can genuinely claim innoecent in "trying to steal dwarven secrets", But Mat might struggle with the same if a dwarven Master Engineer blames Anton and her for it, when he finds he's been given a job to improve on stolen dwarven secrets.

Already addressed by Boney way back when the Anton-Gotri thing happened.

As the grandmaster engineer of k8p, it's Gotri's prerogative to grant or not such knowledge.

At worst, it will be a subject of debate for the next couple of centuries between engineer longbeards on their yearly conferences.

Also, Dwarfs have already shown (see niter factory during Mathilde years in Stirland) that they are not against granting knowledge to institutions that have (or whose leaders have) dwarf favor.
 
[X] [WE] Scavenge the Gauntlet
[X] [BOON] Save it until the Karak is wealthy enough to afford my ambition.
[X] [BOON] Save it as a trump card to exploit an opportunity or address an emergency.
 
Having the We hunt the Gauntlet could tech it up to primitive warfare. I'm imagining Dwarf Spider Riders fighting Goblins and Arachnaroks out in the Badlands, Mad Max style.
 
If you don't want to spend the boon right now might as well approval vote for the "until the Karak is wealthy enough", since the vote to use it right now is winning

But that is the thing, I am voting what I am voting because I like to have contingencies, not because I do not want to spend the boon now.

Was it not an option, I'd vote to spend it early, because the earlier we spent it, the earlier it'll start buying divivends. I am confident enough that whatever we pick will be a net benefit to Belegar, after all, its just that... you never know when you may really, really really, need a way to put your foot in
 
Also on the Repeater favor buy, are people sure we should be having Dwarves look at the Repeater instead of the Repeater factory?

The way I understood the phrasing, it's meant to be both because it's connected, or at least that's what I was advocating for all these months now, and I imagine @TotallyNotEvil as the one who came up with the vote phrasing agrees with me?
Or am I mistaken?

@BoneyM Does the dwarf vote need rephrasing?
 
Folks, why don't we hold our Boon for now, wait a turn or two to see how the Waystone Project is going to shake out, and decide then?

We lose next to nothing, and stand to gain a lot.
And the assumption that B O O K is just going to be going ahead with this omni-disciplinarian, scholarly mess instead of anything more focused, and so it must be opposed, or was done better elsewhere and so we shouldn't even try, does kind of make me unhappy.
Sure, but I'm seeing a whole lot of what you don't want alongside the books, so it comes down to:
- Don't do it.
- Don't half-ass it.

As it seems unlikely a pure book vote is going to win.
 
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