Ugh. I hate it. Why does PMMM have to be some vast cosmic thing upon which the fate and mechanics of the multiverse hinge? Why can't it just be the personal stories of the Mitikahara group? Of the dynamic between Homura nd Madoka?

The cosmic bullshit just distracts.

I mean, like... does any of it matter? The personal stories of the Mitakihara group are the focus regardless, and nothing has changed, regardless.

The cosmological make-up of the setting is interesting but not really relevant until Sabrina meets a god or starts traversing alternate realities.
 
[x] Lower-priority topics:
-[x] Ask Homura if she's brought any Grief Seeds with her between loops.
...
Ask if Homura's ever tried bringing someone's SOUL GEM between loops.
Contingencies.
If we can all be rings on Homura's fingers or eggs in her shield when she goes back, then... shenanigans.
...
Oh snap, wait, is that why when Homura goes back in time she doesn't chronofrag the previous Homura already from that timeline?
Only the gem is her. The body is just a shell. So only the gem goes back. The Homura from that timeline instantly gets the gem and becomes continued Homura from that moment on.
 
We know that Homura's Revenge mechanics are in play, and thus that Homura can in fact bring people (and thus soul gems) back with her.

Asking her about it is an awful idea, though - as far as we're aware, despite having the ability, Homura has never done it and doesn't know she can. So we'd basically be telling her that she was using her power wrong the whole time. Baaaaad juju.

And yes, the time travel is mostly mental - Homura "overwrites" the existing Homura in the timelines she travels to.
 
We know that Homura's Revenge mechanics are in play, and thus that Homura can in fact bring people (and thus soul gems) back with her.

Asking her about it is an awful idea, though - as far as we're aware, despite having the ability, Homura has never done it and doesn't know she can. So we'd basically be telling her that she was using her power wrong the whole time. Baaaaad juju.

And yes, the time travel is mostly mental - Homura "overwrites" the existing Homura in the timelines she travels to.

Also we're trying to make Homura internalize that this is the last timeline, and making her set up contingencies for our failure will not do that. If we can't have unflappable faith that the loop ends here, Homura won't.
 
Basically took what other people voted for and cleaned it up. This is almost certainly too much for a single vote. Which things should we cut?

Hmmm. We can safely cut all of the "lower priority topics" of course - that's why they're low priority. Other than that...

The discussion topics for Hitomi's mom don't really sound like they need timestop? We could just ask in real-time, with Hitomi participating, right? The only thing I'd consider leaving out of real-time is the potential Incubator shenanigans - and there's an argument to be made that we should inform Hitomi of that, too.

I'm also kind of sceptical that @Firnagzen would accept that first broad "tell Homu about Madoka" bullet point. The Sayaka explanation was a massive and detailed write-in on @Kaizuki 's part that spanned a couple of updates, and this is both a lot less detailed of a vote description and asking for an awful lot of information to be crammed into a single update, when Firn has already indicated he wants to move on from this timestop discussion.
 
Combine this imagery with her statement that she sees "All universes that have ever been born, and every universe that ever will", makes a convincing implication that multiple Madokas across time-space made the same wish and fused their Fuckhuge-but-finite-Potentials into the Infinite potential of Madokami.

Sabrina: ... Wow Homura you can definitely choose them
Homura: No I can't....Madoka choose me
Sabrina: Well then... Madoka knows how to choose them too then.
[and then they hugged]
Sabrina: But really come on... your trying to date a god.
Homura: But I'm trying to avoid having her make a wish!
Sabrina: Wait... if Madokami exists outside of space time then she's already here despite Madoka being normal...
Homura: ... ... so we have TWO Madokas?
Sabrina: Yes
Homura: Maybe if I...
Sabrina: NO! Bad Homura! No luring Madokami down from the heaven's to entrap her for snuggles!
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Apr 8, 2019 at 6:21 AM, finished with 151170 posts and 8 votes.

  • [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You won't share anything without permission, and you don't foresee Sayaka causing issues if she figures it out - you're just warning Homura so she isn't entirely blindsided if it happens.
    ---[x] If Sayaka does figure it out, it'll have her supporting Homura even more.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's ever brought grief seeds between loops in her inventory
    -[x] Speaking of grief seeds, if she has any grief seeds right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Puella in her childhood.
    - [x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.
    [x] Madoka has low self esteem, and always wants to help. That's why she's at such high risk of contracting.
    -[x] Sayaka had an interesting insight based on Madoka and Hitomi's performance in the Model UN.
    -[x] Discuss involving Madoka and Hitomi in Tokyo political analysis. Respect Homura's fears and concerns.
    --[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside magical girls, while still significantly assisting our group.
    --[x] By feeling like she's helping, she will feel less pressure to contract.
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know.
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    -[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's brought any Grief Seeds with her between loops.
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    -[x] Ask her if there's anything she wants to know. Avoid the Potentialbomb, but otherwise answer fully and as well as you can.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You won't share anything without permission, and you don't foresee Sayaka causing issues if she figures it out - you're just warning Homura so she isn't entirely blindsided if it happens.
    ---[x] If Sayaka does figure it out, it'll have her supporting Homura even more.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's ever brought grief seeds between loops in her inventory
    --[x] If she has some right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds at some point, since using them like ordinary seeds would mean eventually giving Kyuubey 'impossible' grief seeds.
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Puella in her childhood.
    [x] Madoka has low self esteem, and always wants to help. That's why she's at such high risk of contracting.
    -[x] Sayaka had an interesting insight based on Madoka and Hitomi's performance in the Model UN.
    -[x] Discuss involving Madoka and Hitomi in Tokyo political analysis. Respect Homura's fears and concerns.
    --[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside magical girls, while still significantly assisting our group.
    --[x] By feeling like she's helping, she will feel less pressure to contract.
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know.
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
 
Also we're trying to make Homura internalize that this is the last timeline, and making her set up contingencies for our failure will not do that. If we can't have unflappable faith that the loop ends here, Homura won't.

Having unflappable faith in anything is a terrible idea, especially in something as risky as our complete victory. In the event of a failure without contingency planning when the consequences are this serious, that failure will spiral beyond any and all control.

I wouldn't believe that anyone could seriously accept such a policy if I didn't just read your post.

We aren't going to just magically make Homura forget about decades of failed timelines by believing hard enough. The knowledge that failure is possible will be there no matter what we do, and trying to suppress it and not discuss contingency plans will only increase her anxiety because she'll feel there's nothing she can do if we mess up. By my estimation, ignoring this will only put her under pressure with the idea that she has to succeed no matter what, while a failure contingency will assuage this source of stress and improve her mental health.
 
Having unflappable faith in anything is a terrible idea, especially in something as risky as our complete victory. In the event of a failure without contingency planning when the consequences are this serious, that failure will spiral beyond any and all control.

I wouldn't believe that anyone could seriously accept such a policy if I didn't just read your post.

We aren't going to just magically make Homura forget about decades of failed timelines by believing hard enough. The knowledge that failure is possible will be there no matter what we do, and trying to suppress it and not discuss contingency plans will only increase her anxiety because she'll feel there's nothing she can do if we mess up. By my estimation, ignoring this will only put her under pressure with the idea that she has to succeed no matter what, while a failure contingency will assuage this source of stress and improve her mental health.

I don't know how to break it to you, but if we fail here, Homura is going to grief-spiral into witchhood anyway and there's not really any realistic way we can possibly hope to break that. This is the best timeline she's ever had, full of all kinds of complete bullshit miracles she never dared dream of. If she somehow can't win with all this even still, and she lands in a timeline without all these advantages?

She's done. Homura canonically witches out as soon as she realizes it's pointless. If she can't win with everyone in Mitakihara completely and totally on her side, Sayaka being OP as fuck, everybody having infinite magic thanks to a new best friend who understands her perfectly, and even ORIKO is being a bro, in addition to the probably like 100-something Magical Girls we'll have ready for Walpurgis?

Like. Fuck. I don't know how anyone could recover from that.
 
I don't know how to break it to you, but if we fail here, Homura is going to grief-spiral into witchhood anyway and there's not really any realistic way we can possibly hope to break that. This is the best timeline she's ever had, full of all kinds of complete bullshit miracles she never dared dream of. If she somehow can't win with all this even still, and she lands in a timeline without all these advantages?

She's done. Homura canonically witches out as soon as she realizes it's pointless. If she can't win with everyone in Mitakihara completely and totally on her side, Sayaka being OP as fuck, everybody having infinite magic thanks to a new best friend who understands her perfectly, and even ORIKO is being a bro, in addition to the probably like 100-something Magical Girls we'll have ready for Walpurgis?

Like. Fuck. I don't know how anyone could recover from that.
Loop once more in the desperate hope that Sabrina shows up again next time.
 
Maybe. Maybe.

But she'd have to endure the loop each time because Homura's psychologically incapable of abandoning a still-saveable Madoka. And that's a whole month of this loop's failure eating at her mind.

I'm not optimistic and merely imagining it is turning my stomach.
 
I don't know how to break it to you, but if we fail here, Homura is going to grief-spiral into witchhood anyway and there's not really any realistic way we can possibly hope to break that. This is the best timeline she's ever had, full of all kinds of complete bullshit miracles she never dared dream of. If she somehow can't win with all this even still, and she lands in a timeline without all these advantages?

She's done. Homura canonically witches out as soon as she realizes it's pointless. If she can't win with everyone in Mitakihara completely and totally on her side, Sayaka being OP as fuck, everybody having infinite magic thanks to a new best friend who understands her perfectly, and even ORIKO is being a bro, in addition to the probably like 100-something Magical Girls we'll have ready for Walpurgis?

Like. Fuck. I don't know how anyone could recover from that.

I have three points in response to this:

1) You're talking about a person who tried and failed at a seemingly impossible task for decades. She has more than enough willpower to continue past an initial depressive episode, and your statements indicate a serious lack of faith in her character. As it stands, she's being set up for utter failure in the event of what we as a thread should view as only a severe setback, because as time goes to infinity the probability of any outcome, success or failure, approaches 1.

2) This isn't just about making her ready for the 'next time.' What I'm saying is that, whether or not she does immediately spiral after looping, it will be better for her mental health in the short run to think, or even pretend( if that's how you want to think about it), that there is a way to continue on after failing. As of this moment, she is stressed about the idea of failing this loop. It doesn't matter that this is the best one yet, because she failed every other time the loop was 'the best one yet,' so even if the current situation is different that doesn't make it fundamentally different. The idea 'I have a plan' is much better for your conscience, mental health, and stress levels than 'If we mess up, everything's over' on every level, and as it stands you're arguing to continue with option number two.

3) One of the major themes/potential interpretations of Homura's wish is that she will protect Madoka, and be the one to save her-case in point, the end of Rebellion. If we allow her to continue viewing this timeline and us as the only reason she could possibly succeed, that's a hit to her self-esteem and the foundation of her magic. By approaching her from the perspective that we are only supplementary to her goal of saving Madoka, that will improve both her confidence and her overall mindset.
Heck, in canon she even eventually won without us. Sure, it was a pyrrhic victory that was only barely salvaged by copious amounts memory magic and included a future that many have interpreted pessimistically, but it was a victory nonetheless. Even telling her this(edited, of course, as to not recommend the Rebellion solution and implying that a more appealing-to-us solution is the one she achieved/could achieve) could prevent an immediate spiral.

We could also mention that it took hundreds of loops for us to show up once the first time, so who's to say we won't come back at any given point in the future? As @Godwinson said, 'loop once more in the desperate hope that Sabrina shows up next time,' but in this case multiplied by x=(as many times as it might take).
 
Actually, I think I know a way we can potentially put this topic to rest permanently --

@Firnagzen

If things go really wrong in-quest somehow, do you intend for Sabrina to be able to accompany Homura into the loop? Does the story continue onward after that? Or is it a straight-up, flat-out "Game Over" for everyone involved no matter what?

I'm directly asking because this is something that really depends on meta-game concerns, and doesn't seem like it can actually be resolved by the players.
 
Been a while since I've caught up with this. College is a hell of a drug. Fortunately, it looks like things have been going wonderfully!

... One of the major themes/potential interpretations of Homura's wish is that she will protect Madoka, and be the one to save her-case in point, the end of Rebellion. If we allow her to continue viewing this timeline and us as the only reason she could possibly succeed, that's a hit to her self-esteem and the foundation of her magic. ...

I feel like this is a good thing to keep an eye on completely tangential to the current discussion: Since her Wish was 'I want to go back, but I want to be the one protecting her', Homura rejecting the idea that 'I can do this by myself, no matter how many tries it takes' could lead her to... if not rejection, a wish reconfiguration like Oriko that could leave her extremely vulnerable both in practical terms and emotionally. If in the coming days Homura suddenly finds that her time stop isn't working like it's supposed to, how do we deal with that in the immediate and strategically?
 
I'm also kind of sceptical that @Firnagzen would accept that first broad "tell Homu about Madoka" bullet point. The Sayaka explanation was a massive and detailed write-in on @Kaizuki 's part that spanned a couple of updates, and this is both a lot less detailed of a vote description and asking for an awful lot of information to be crammed into a single update, when Firn has already indicated he wants to move on from this timestop discussion.
That's fair.

There's something bothering me about that particular topic. I don't know why it's bothering me. Something about the way we're thinking about this that diverges from the way Homura's thinking about it. We model Madoka as having more insight so we think that hiding information is less likely to work? Is there something we know that we haven't told Homura but would be part of our most serious-business argument to Madoka if everything has gone so sideways that we're okay telling her everything in pursuit of convincing her to not wish?

...Oh. Yeah, that's probably it. "Madoka loves you." That's probably not something we should be telling Homura, is it.

Demoted the conversation about Hitomi's Mom. That leaves two detailed topics, which I think has been generally right for these updates.

[] Discuss Madoka's psychology the way you did Sayaka's. You should be on the same page as Homura but want to make sure.

[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
-[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
-[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.

[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
-[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
-[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.

Note - I'm carefully phrasing this in terms of helping Madoka live a happier life, not just making it less likely that she'll Wish, because I think that that might be something to pursue. Madoka's big issue is that she's not happy and she's driven to Wish in an effort to address her issues. Addressing her unhappiness is a more certain route than carefully making sure she's not exposed to any opportunities to make her feel better by Wishing. That's probably one of the reasons that Madoka keeps Wishing despite Homura's best efforts; Madoka is just too good at finding reasons to Wish.

[] Hitomi's mother.
-[] You, uh, asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping people that your friends care about. So this might be your fault.
-[] You're meeting with her this weekend to explain more. Does Homura want to participate or add anything to the agenda?
-[] Propose working with her to recruit a therapist. People like Anri and Akiko are the biggest reasons, but you feel like you want some professional help in general.
--[] ...Help keeping people happy. She knows what you meant.


[x] Lower-priority topics:
-[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
-[x] Ask Homura if she's brought any Grief Seeds with her between loops.
-[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
-[x] Ask her if there's anything she wants to know. Avoid the Potentialbomb, but otherwise answer fully and as well as you can.
-[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?

[x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
-[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
 
I feel like this is a good thing to keep an eye on completely tangential to the current discussion: Since her Wish was 'I want to go back, but I want to be the one protecting her', Homura rejecting the idea that 'I can do this by myself, no matter how many tries it takes' could lead her to... if not rejection, a wish reconfiguration like Oriko that could leave her extremely vulnerable both in practical terms and emotionally. If in the coming days Homura suddenly finds that her time stop isn't working like it's supposed to, how do we deal with that in the immediate and strategically?

I don't think it's a thing that would happen. Not because your reasoning is incorrect, but because the premise is faulty.

Her Wish depends on whether she wants to protect Madoka, not whether she's able, deserving, or actually does need to protect her from a real threat.

Long story short, there is that Wraith Arc manga, and Homura still retains her timestop powers throughout it, despite:
1) Actual doubts Madoka exists and is not a fruit of her imagination created by her memory magic in her desperate need to have any friend at all, even if imaginary one
2) Her using the time travel function being dangerous to Madokami, because weird space shenanigans and something something UKG inside the shield
3) Madokami becoming an honest to Urobuchi Law of the universe and thus not really needing any protection Homura is able to provide

In other words, Homura's previous Wish is seemingly obsolete, dangerous and maybe not even real at all, but Homura still retains her powers anyway, because she still wants to meet Madoka again and she still wants to protect her.
 
In the event of a failure without contingency planning when the consequences are this serious, that failure will spiral beyond any and all control.
Contingency planning makes that failure more likely. We've got a good thing going right now. The only group member not currently on good terms with everyone else is Kyoko, Homura's letting us include Madoka and the Kures, she's even opening up emotionally. If we undermine her trust in us now that goes away. Homura becomes harder to work with in general. She closes herself back off, leading to emotional damage for her and everyone who has befriended her. She starts protecting Madoka the way she wants to rather than how we want to, reducing Madoka's self-esteem and massively increasing the odds of a wish. Worst case she kills the Kures.

Homura's belief in us is what made all of this possible and will make more stuff possible in the future. Don't undermine that.
 
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Hmmm. We can safely cut all of the "lower priority topics" of course - that's why they're low priority. Other than that...

The discussion topics for Hitomi's mom don't really sound like they need timestop? We could just ask in real-time, with Hitomi participating, right? The only thing I'd consider leaving out of real-time is the potential Incubator shenanigans - and there's an argument to be made that we should inform Hitomi of that, too.

I'm also kind of sceptical that @Firnagzen would accept that first broad "tell Homu about Madoka" bullet point. The Sayaka explanation was a massive and detailed write-in on @Kaizuki 's part that spanned a couple of updates, and this is both a lot less detailed of a vote description and asking for an awful lot of information to be crammed into a single update, when Firn has already indicated he wants to move on from this timestop discussion.

On that note I'm also completely incapable of doing the same thing for Madoka, for two reasons: firstly, that I couldn't do Sayaka right now if I tried because my head's a mess, and secondly, because I don't get Madoka.
 
I mean, like... does any of it matter? The personal stories of the Mitakihara group are the focus regardless, and nothing has changed, regardless.

The cosmological make-up of the setting is interesting but not really relevant until Sabrina meets a god or starts traversing alternate realities.
I mean, our latest talk with Oriko pretty heavily implies that Feathers will exist in all timelines Homura visits from here on. Feathers wouldn't be as much of a problem for Homura as a "new threat" if she Homura could just loop forwards and avoid her.

(Also on the multiverse note, it's worth noting that, while we've never asked Homura about a video diary, Sayakaquest's mechanics still show up in multiple places.)
I don't think it's a thing that would happen. Not because your reasoning is incorrect, but because the premise is faulty.

Her Wish depends on whether she wants to protect Madoka, not whether she's able, deserving, or actually does need to protect her from a real threat.

Long story short, there is that Wraith Arc manga, and Homura still retains her timestop powers throughout it, despite:
1) Actual doubts Madoka exists and is not a fruit of her imagination created by her memory magic in her desperate need to have any friend at all, even if imaginary one
2) Her using the time travel function being dangerous to Madokami, because weird space shenanigans and something something UKG inside the shield
3) Madokami becoming an honest to Urobuchi Law of the universe and thus not really needing any protection Homura is able to provide

In other words, Homura's previous Wish is seemingly obsolete, dangerous and maybe not even real at all, but Homura still retains her powers anyway, because she still wants to meet Madoka again and she still wants to protect her.
The problem with this analogy is that this is not a problem of situation. Oriko doesn't reject her wish she she's captured, she rejects it when she her methods and way of living.

In contrast, Homura during Rebellion and Wraith Arc, was still in her "Fine, I'll do it myself" mode. The plans she makes and actions she takes are those of someone who trusts only herself and relies on no one else. Same as during the loops. Her doubts of Madoka's existence during Wraith arc are because she literally rewrites her mind. And not only has she not rejected or questioned that philosophy in Rebellion, the events there are arguably caused by backsliding to that mindset.

Here in PMAS, on the other hand, we're spinning doubts in her head as to whether she's even adequate to protect Madoka.

This ties into timeline worries. For myself, when I see her worries, it's less that this one great timeline will fail... and more that she's been put at a loss by being shown up by us doing what she cannot. That our success makes her think that she's not capable to the task and never was. To the point where we have to continually reassure her of the opposite.

That's why she might reject her wish and why stuff like this:

Also we're trying to make Homura internalize that this is the last timeline, and making her set up contingencies for our failure will not do that. If we can't have unflappable faith that the loop ends here, Homura won't.
Quite frankly, alarms me.

"Internalizing that this is the last timeline" doesn't strike me as something that will be a source of strength for Homura. Quite the opposite. Because internalizing that doesn't mean just mean she believes it will succeed, it means that there's nothing she can do better than us.

It's imposing our own fears upon her: That if we fail, the quest ends and nothing beyond that can change.

From someone who likes to vote and plan from the mindset of Sabrina being an actual person I'm pretty sure that, in character, that translates to: "If Sabrina dies, nothing I have done matters."

That's not healthy for Sabrina, and it's certainly not healthy for Homura. Because it means the worst case in my eyes isn't that we simply fail.

It's that Homura decides that failure means we're inadequate... and so is she.

Homura's strength isn't certain victory: It's her ability to put her failures behind her and move forwards anyways. What she needs isn't the idea that this one attempt will succeed, what she needs to feel is that she does not need to do this alone, and that she is not alone.

"This is the last timeline, the one attempt that matters" as a concept? Is at war with everything she's made her strength: It opposes the idea that she can get up and try again, and does not necessarily solve her issues with relying on other people.

Accepting that failure is a possibility is not weakness or cowardice.

It's just one more thing to plan for.
 
I mean, like... does any of it matter? The personal stories of the Mitakihara group are the focus regardless, and nothing has changed, regardless.

The cosmological make-up of the setting is interesting but not really relevant until Sabrina meets a god or starts traversing alternate realities.

I can understand. There are some settings that I just can't get into even though I might like the vast bulk of what occurs because the cosmic underpinnings of the setting annoy me.
 
The problem with this analogy is that this is not a problem of situation. Oriko doesn't reject her wish she she's captured, she rejects it when she her methods and way of living.

In contrast, Homura during Rebellion and Wraith Arc, was still in her "Fine, I'll do it myself" mode. The plans she makes and actions she takes are those of someone who trusts only herself and relies on no one else. Same as during the loops. Her doubts of Madoka's existence during Wraith arc are because she literally rewrites her mind. And not only has she not rejected or questioned that philosophy in Rebellion, the events there are arguably caused by backsliding to that mindset.

Here in PMAS, on the other hand, we're spinning doubts in her head as to whether she's even adequate to protect Madoka.

Mmm. Again, it's not about Homura being able to protect Madoka. It's about Homura being willing to protect Madoka.

And, uh, it's not an analogy?

I'm sorry, but it just kinda feels you haven't read my argument at all.

Homura's Wish was:

"I want to redo my first encounter with Kaname-san. But this time, instead of her protecting me, I want to become strong enough to protect her!"

Oriko's Wish is not directly stated anywhere ( I could find, at least ) , but it's something along the lines "I Wish for my existence to have a reason."

Nothing happening during Wraith Arc and Rebellion contradicts Homura's Wish because she doesn't lose the desire to become strong enough to protect her. Never does she admit she's not capable of doing that, and I'm not sure she can. I mean, an ungenerous person could say that when Madoka is safe, Homura starts inventing things to protect her from. It's literally about the journey and not the destination.

Oriko rejects her Wish not because she doesn't want her existence to have a reason, though, obviously. She rejects it because she was absolutely sure that the reason for her existence is for her to die. And then she starts doubting it.

The Wish is both about the intent and the wording. Homura's intent doesn't change meaningfully. Oriko's does.
 
[x] Continue talking about...
-[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
--[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
--[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.


I liked the @Vebyast changes here

-[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
-[] Ask Homura if she's ever brought grief seeds between loops in her inventory

Thinking about this more, I'm not sure if asking this is necessary or helpful. Could someone explain the reasoning for asking this and Homura's expected response?
Edit: re-x'd
Edit edit: Un-x'd


@Vebyast suggested doing this part later, but there's no time like the present. Also, we must never miss an opportunity to use the term "Meguca"! It is definitely the correct term!

-[x] If she has any grief seeds right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds
-[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
--[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Meguca in her childhood.
--[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend. Ask if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
-[x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.

More changes from @Vebyast
-[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
-[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside meguca, while still significantly assisting our group.
-[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
--[x] As a result, she will be less likely to "wish to help", as she too often does


[x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know about you, about your memories, or about your knowledge of people, etc. and let her know that this is a standing offer

Figured we could prompt a bit because she's likely to say "no" if we just ask her without prompting topics.

-[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.

[x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
-[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.

@Redshirt Army @Madou Sutegobana @StoneSaint @Shadowhisker I changed the vote a bit. Let me know what you think of the modifications.

[x] Continue talking about...
-[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
--[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
--[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.

-[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?

-[x] If she has any grief seeds right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds
-[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
--[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Meguca in her childhood.
--[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend. Ask if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
-[x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.

-[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
-[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside meguca, while still significantly assisting our group.
-[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
--[x] As a result, she will be less likely to "wish to help", as she too often does

-[x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know about you, about your memories, or about your knowledge of people, etc. and let her know that this is a standing offer
--[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
[x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
-[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.


Phew it's a bit longer than 150 words now though. Should I try to cut it down a bit? Here's my attempt at cutting it to the 150 word limit

[x] Sayaka may figure things out
-[x] This may be useful
-[x] If she asks, what should you say?

[x] Does Homura want to join the meeting with Hitomi's mother?

[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
-[x] This may explain Hitomi's mother

[x] Bring up bringing a therapist into the know for people like Anri and Akiko especially


[x] Sayaka thinks Madoka and Hitomi could help analyze Tokyo politics
-[x] They wouldn't encounter outside meguca, but would help.
-[x] This helps Madoka's self-esteem and lowers wish chance


[x] What happens when Witches rehatch?
[x]Offer to turn any grief seeds into Clear Seeds

[x] Does Homura have anything she wants to know? Ask anytime.
-[x] If she does, answer fully, unless Potentialbomb related

[x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a spinning, silly hug.
-[x] Cut to voting

Edited
Adhoc vote count started by Neinet on Apr 8, 2019 at 7:50 AM, finished with 151175 posts and 9 votes.

  • [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    --[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] If she has any grief seeds right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Meguca in her childhood.
    --[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend. Ask if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.
    -[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside meguca, while still significantly assisting our group.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    --[x] As a result, she will be less likely to "wish to help", as she too often does
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know about you, about your memories, or about your knowledge of people, etc. and let her know that this is a standing offer
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    --[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] If she has any grief seeds right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Meguca in her childhood.
    --[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend. Ask if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.
    -[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside meguca, while still significantly assisting our group.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    --[x] As a result, she will be less likely to "wish to help", as she too often does
    -[x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know about you, about your memories, or about your knowledge of people, etc. and let her know that this is a standing offer
    --[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Sayaka may figure things out
    -[x] This may be useful
    -[x] If she asks, what should you say?
    [x] What happens when Witches rehatch?
    [x] If Homura has grief seeds, offer to turn them into Clear Seeds
    [x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    -[x] This may explain Hitomi's mother
    [x] Bring up bringing a therapist into the know for people like Anri and Akiko especially
    [x] Sayaka thinks Madoka and Hitomi could help analyze Tokyo politics
    -[x] They wouldn't encounter outside meguca, but would help.
    -[x] This helps Madoka's self-esteem and lowers wish chance
    [x] Does Homura have anything she wants to know? Ask anytime.
    -[x] If she does, answer fully, unless Potentialbomb related
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting
    [x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    -[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's brought any Grief Seeds with her between loops.
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    -[x] Ask her if there's anything she wants to know. Avoid the Potentialbomb, but otherwise answer fully and as well as you can.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You won't share anything without permission, and you don't foresee Sayaka causing issues if she figures it out - you're just warning Homura so she isn't entirely blindsided if it happens.
    ---[x] If Sayaka does figure it out, it'll have her supporting Homura even more.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's ever brought grief seeds between loops in her inventory
    --[x] If she has some right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds at some point, since using them like ordinary seeds would mean eventually giving Kyuubey 'impossible' grief seeds.
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Puella in her childhood.
    [x] Madoka has low self esteem, and always wants to help. That's why she's at such high risk of contracting.
    -[x] Sayaka had an interesting insight based on Madoka and Hitomi's performance in the Model UN.
    -[x] Discuss involving Madoka and Hitomi in Tokyo political analysis. Respect Homura's fears and concerns.
    --[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside magical girls, while still significantly assisting our group.
    --[x] By feeling like she's helping, she will feel less pressure to contract.
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know.
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.

Adhoc vote count started by Neinet on Apr 8, 2019 at 7:55 AM, finished with 151175 posts and 9 votes.

  • [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    --[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] If she has any grief seeds right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Meguca in her childhood.
    --[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend. Ask if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.
    -[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside meguca, while still significantly assisting our group.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    --[x] As a result, she will be less likely to "wish to help", as she too often does
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know about you, about your memories, or about your knowledge of people, etc. and let her know that this is a standing offer
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    --[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] If she has any grief seeds right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Meguca in her childhood.
    --[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend. Ask if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.
    -[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside meguca, while still significantly assisting our group.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    --[x] As a result, she will be less likely to "wish to help", as she too often does
    -[x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know about you, about your memories, or about your knowledge of people, etc. and let her know that this is a standing offer
    --[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    -[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's brought any Grief Seeds with her between loops.
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    -[x] Ask her if there's anything she wants to know. Avoid the Potentialbomb, but otherwise answer fully and as well as you can.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You won't share anything without permission, and you don't foresee Sayaka causing issues if she figures it out - you're just warning Homura so she isn't entirely blindsided if it happens.
    ---[x] If Sayaka does figure it out, it'll have her supporting Homura even more.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's ever brought grief seeds between loops in her inventory
    --[x] If she has some right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds at some point, since using them like ordinary seeds would mean eventually giving Kyuubey 'impossible' grief seeds.
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Puella in her childhood.
    [x] Madoka has low self esteem, and always wants to help. That's why she's at such high risk of contracting.
    -[x] Sayaka had an interesting insight based on Madoka and Hitomi's performance in the Model UN.
    -[x] Discuss involving Madoka and Hitomi in Tokyo political analysis. Respect Homura's fears and concerns.
    --[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside magical girls, while still significantly assisting our group.
    --[x] By feeling like she's helping, she will feel less pressure to contract.
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know.
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.

Adhoc vote count started by Neinet on Apr 8, 2019 at 7:56 AM, finished with 151175 posts and 9 votes.

  • [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    --[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] If she has any grief seeds right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Meguca in her childhood.
    --[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend. Ask if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.
    -[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside meguca, while still significantly assisting our group.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    --[x] As a result, she will be less likely to "wish to help", as she too often does
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know about you, about your memories, or about your knowledge of people, etc. and let her know that this is a standing offer
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    -[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's brought any Grief Seeds with her between loops.
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    -[x] Ask her if there's anything she wants to know. Avoid the Potentialbomb, but otherwise answer fully and as well as you can.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You won't share anything without permission, and you don't foresee Sayaka causing issues if she figures it out - you're just warning Homura so she isn't entirely blindsided if it happens.
    ---[x] If Sayaka does figure it out, it'll have her supporting Homura even more.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's ever brought grief seeds between loops in her inventory
    --[x] If she has some right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds at some point, since using them like ordinary seeds would mean eventually giving Kyuubey 'impossible' grief seeds.
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Puella in her childhood.
    [x] Madoka has low self esteem, and always wants to help. That's why she's at such high risk of contracting.
    -[x] Sayaka had an interesting insight based on Madoka and Hitomi's performance in the Model UN.
    -[x] Discuss involving Madoka and Hitomi in Tokyo political analysis. Respect Homura's fears and concerns.
    --[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside magical girls, while still significantly assisting our group.
    --[x] By feeling like she's helping, she will feel less pressure to contract.
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know.
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
 
Last edited:
Well, if I showed up to argue with people, wouldn't make sense not to vote.
( not like I haven't broken my word already )

[X] Neinet
 
Thought - Wouldn't it be better to help Homura by ensuring she knows what she can do for Madoka here in the current timeline? I feel like there is a definite undertone of Homura thinking she might be a little useless ar times. She tried to save Madoka countless times and failed then Sabrina shows up and pulls off creating a timeline that she would of thought was impossible.

I know we've done some things to alleviate this but I think they coulf easily be seen as just words to assuage the worries with no real weight behind them. It's like telling someone they are needed for the team just ro avoid hurt feelings.

We should show that when it comes to protecting Madoka Homura is the best option, perhaps the only worthy option really. Oh sure Sabrina could do well but Sabrina wants to save everyone [well that and Madoka wishing might cause a bad end for us...] but as Sabrina said she sorta belongs to Mami. Homura has no split loyalties - her top concern, her only concern for awhile, was Madoka.

Anyway

Helping Homura be sure of her own worth in the present timeline is useful in the present timeline and helps, I think, alleviate some of the issues about having Homura think if this TL fails she's wasted her time.
 
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