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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Onmur said:
"It's treason, then."
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As a resident Star Wars junkie, I start getting offended of everyone and their cat using this phrase without my consent.

Here, a new policy:

[><] Establish ThoughtPolice in Sabrina's mind.
-[><] Punish everyone not following the line of the party with forcing them to watch the entire Naruto Shippuden on repeat.
 
Script Mak3r said:
I just had a thought. Our theories for our origin are pretty much all along the lines of "we exist as Sabrina Vee because of Madoka's Wish that everything could be fixed". We also generally attribute our fuckhueg potential on this very origin – a common idea is that that is what was needed.

However, I'd like to throw out something a little different. My idea is that, even if we showed up with only our metaknowledge, and no special power to affect the world, we could still fulfill Madoka's Wish, even if it would be more difficult.

So, then, why did we get handed Unlimited Cosmic Power™? Well, aren't meguca with extremely large potential the people who would have been able to change the world regardless of their magic?
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Man, taking on the world with at best, an SMG and lots of hugs sounds hard.
 
Script Mak3r said:
I just had a thought. Our theories for our origin are pretty much all along the lines of "we exist as Sabrina Vee because of Madoka's Wish that everything could be fixed". We also generally attribute our fuckhueg potential on this very origin – a common idea is that that is what was needed.

However, I'd like to throw out something a little different. My idea is that, even if we showed up with only our metaknowledge, and no special power to affect the world, we could still fulfill Madoka's Wish, even if it would be more difficult.

So, then, why did we get handed Unlimited Cosmic Power™? Well, aren't meguca with extremely large potential the people who would have been able to change the world regardless of their magic?
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Oh, about that. The problem is, Sabrina was dying on arrival, practically forcing her to make a Wish.
Madoka was still nice enough to get us to the nearest source of help, i.e. a QB.

It looks to me like Madoka ( Aka Firnagzen) really wanted Sabrina to become a Magical Girl.

Or maybe Madoka watched to much Lyrical Nanoha and doesn't realize that befriending someone with your magical bow is potentially fatal.
 
Onmur said:
The worst laid plans are those made by teens in KB's sights.

It could be that everything is going according to Riona's keikaku*... which means everything is going wrong because she doesn't know better. :V

*keikaku means plan.

EDIT:

Random thought inspired by Kai's presence:

I could totally see a meguca finding out KB's real deal and looking at it and going...

"It's treason, then."

:V :V
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See my favorite is that Rionna brought someone back and they killed themselves, so she's keeping them as a shade.
 
Appletank said:
Man, taking on the world with at best, an SMG and lots of hugs sounds hard.
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To be fair to how our potential is affected by just metaknowledge alone, the single biggest problem in PMMM? Is largely that the people involved don't know enough and the people who do know things either can't or won't talk to each other.

If, for example, Homura had had the ability and opportunity to just sit everyone down in episode 1 and been able to calmly explain everything to everyone else, and been believed, without having to worry about her own safety or emotional health in doing so? Things would have turned out very different.

And Sabrina, in fact, was in exactly the position where she could have explained literally everything right then and there had she so chosen. Or over the next day/week/month, whatever. (And I am highly of the opinion that merely our ability to explain what things are and how they work is our one of our greatest assets for making things better. Especially for Potentials.)
 
Script Mak3r said:
I just had a thought. Our theories for our origin are pretty much all along the lines of "we exist as Sabrina Vee because of Madoka's Wish that everything could be fixed". We also generally attribute our fuckhueg potential on this very origin – a common idea is that that is what was needed.

However, I'd like to throw out something a little different. My idea is that, even if we showed up with only our metaknowledge, and no special power to affect the world, we could still fulfill Madoka's Wish, even if it would be more difficult.

So, then, why did we get handed Unlimited Cosmic Power™? Well, aren't meguca with extremely large potential the people who would have been able to change the world regardless of their magic?
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The Phoenixian said:
To be fair to how our potential is affected by just metaknowledge alone, the single biggest problem in PMMM? Is largely that the people involved don't know enough and the people who do know things either can't or won't talk to each other.

If, for example, Homura had had the ability and opportunity to just sit everyone down in episode 1 and been able to calmly explain everything to everyone else, and been believed, without having to worry about her own safety or emotional health in doing so? Things would have turned out very different.

And Sabrina, in fact, was in exactly the position where she could have explained literally everything right then and there had she so chosen. Or over the next day/week/month, whatever. (And I am highly of the opinion that merely our ability to explain what things are and how they work is our one of our greatest assets for making things better. Especially for Potentials.)
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With regards to the current conversation on why Sabrina's potential, and powers, are as great as they are, from a more meta perspective:

Firnagzen said:
I'm not going to screw you guys over on the Wish, because... well, I need to stack the deck in your favour. You're going to need it.
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Firnagzen said:
So. Fair warning. This is not going to be an easy Quest. Oriko is going to be a primary antagonist, for starters, and, well-

Well. Let's just say you'll find out as it goes, eh?
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PMAS was designed to be difficult, even with Sabrina operating at her current level of power.
 
Onmur said:
Can't you see how it might be seen as something crazy? No offense, but I'd expect this from Frank Debrin
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-- I mean, Sayaka would have been killed, in a manner consistent with Riona's power, immediately after Riona arrived in our city.
I think it's pretty reasonable to ask Riona if she knows anything about that.
The prophecy thing makes it complicated to ask the question, but cmon. Riona knows.

But I also agree that it doesn't hurt to ask non-confrontationally.

-----

[X] Redshirt Army

Good clear presentation, gives lots of paths for Brinapilot to resolve our moral dilemma for us.
 
Just wanna say I just noticed the threadbanner, and got it into my head that is something Sabrina should be saying more often.
Particularly when she's breaking up fights in the Mobile Oppression Fort.
 
Building off of Redshirt Army's vote, and covering more ground that we minimally need to:

[X] Become calm, offering a trade
-[X] understand Rionna didn't expect to negotiate, get her ready for that.
[x] Address "I'm not giving up what I have." We didn't come to her to take it.
-[X] Supply beverage (read the body language.) Without Mami entering herself.
-[X] Suggest that once she fully acknowledges others, her life gets better.
--[X] Applies to everyone. Therefore, it concerns us.
-[X] Things she can't have, like our magic, we will help her solve.
[X] Practice using her Grief powers, learn from us. Obtain a copy of our powers with her effort.
-[X] She came for an answer to some problem. The answer is here, it's just unexpected.
[X] Secondary topics:
-[X] De-Witching.
--[X] Let Riona examine Aurora.
--[X] Explain your experiments so far.
-[X] Ask after her powers.
--[X] What does your Soul look like?
-[X] Wish rejection: describe Oriko's symptoms.


[X] There is an Iowa Group out there. When is Rionna acting against them? Does she have any coherent policy outside her city?
[X] We want to share her patrol against Grief Spreaders.
[X] What is Rionna's bad opinion of us based on, anyway? Who told her we were bad?
[X] Show Rionna the Feather

There is no mention of Shades, we can come back to that. Our goal is to get a conversation going on non-adversarial grounds. We could talk about cider? But instead, I want Rionna to consider trade. She didn't come for that, but betrayal it is! If we can get her to undertake a trading negotiation, we can avoid a showdown. Let's open up more topics, and see where that leads. Ask about her point of view, such as "isn't she going to stop the raiders." It doesn't matter that we kinda know the answer already. Keep Mami out of the sphere, she is thinking combative thoughts ATM. The feather is going to be a "reset moment" I think. I bet it blocks her soul vision in an anomalous way.

Appletank said:
Man, taking on the world with at best, an SMG and lots of hugs sounds hard.
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Homura understands
 
Conjured Blade said:
@HeroCycle

I don't think Rionna having the powers of N False Griefbenders is enough to simulate the true Griefbending we have so odds are we can't offer that.
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That would be thinking "inside" the incubator. Limiting our thinking without an experiment is bad science. Why? We need to try to distribute our personal magic somehow, mostly it isn't easy or everyone would try to copy powers.
Here we have a motivated candidate, and an expert on other people's souls. Have her try to find a way. It is my opinion that her owning "false" Grief powers is the missing link that lets her invent copying - power copying as an effort, not a personal magic. Once copying is invented, it can be taught.
 
Wirikidor said:
--I mean, Sayaka would have been killed, in a manner consistent with Riona's power, immediately after Riona arrived in our city.
I think it's pretty reasonable to ask Riona if she knows anything about that.
The prophecy thing makes it complicated to ask the question, but cmon. Riona knows.
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That's a reasonable point, although I think that accusing Rionna of future murders is pretty pointless. It certainly won't help us diplomatically, and it's pretty obvious why Sayaka and Rionna might potentially come to blows in the future.

But... what does that have to do with the black feather? I've believed for some time now that "Feathers" is a nebulous label that we're filing a lot of distinct phenomena under, which likely have more then one actual source in reality.

With Rionna's powers now known to us, I'm thinking that we can file all of those mysterious unmarked deaths Oriko foresaw as likely caused by her. But I don't see any reason to connect that to the black feathers, to the "blind spots" in Oriko's sight, or to the strange voices we hear in barriers - they may well all be seperate phenomena with seperate causes.
 
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HeroCycle said:
That would be thinking "inside" the incubator. Limiting our thinking without an experiment is bad science. Why? We need to try to distribute our personal magic somehow, mostly it isn't easy or everyone would try to copy powers.
Here we have a motivated candidate, and an expert on other people's souls. Have her try to find a way. It is my opinion that her owning "false" Grief powers is the missing link that lets her invent copying - power copying as an effort, not a personal magic. Once copying is invented, it can be taught.
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Maybe. Unlikely enough though that the most I think we can offer her is the opportunity to do non-invasive(IE without us giving her our soul) inspection of our power as we try things with whatever sensory powers she has to see if it gives her ideas.
 
Conjured Blade said:
the opportunity to do non-invasive(IE without us giving her our soul) inspection of our power
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That's the sort of path intended, yes. And lots of repetition. Think of it is a martial art.


It is my thought that any conversation that mentions her shades, or killing, is going to find a deaf ear from Rionna in the next couple of minutes. Thus, I would like to not see that in the vote.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
That's a reasonable point, although I think that accusing Rionna of future murders is pretty pointless. It certainly won't help us diplomatically, and it's pretty obvious why Sayaka and Rionna might potentially come to blows in the future.

But... what does that have to do with the black feather? I've believed for some time now that "Feathers" is a nebulous label that we're filing a lot of distinct phenomena under, which likely have more then one actual source in reality.

With Rionna's powers now known to us, I'm thinking that we can file all of those mysterious unmarked deaths Oriko foresaw as likely caused by her. But I don't see any reason to connect that to the black feathers, to the "blind spots" in Oriko's sight, or to the strange voices we hear in barriers - they may well all be seperate phenomena with seperate causes.
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What about warning her of the possibility of her coming to blows with Sayaka and being frank with her that you are trying to take measures to avoid the scenario like one of my abandoned ideas?


[]Warn her about the possibility she will come into conflict with Sayaka Miki you got from a precog with a you shaped blind-spot, your interest in ensuring both of them have no reason to fight each other, and that Sayaka is worthless from the standpoint of acquiring your powers, as well as a decent person. The precog's prophecies mentioned a nebulously defined feathered one, and Sayaka experiencing soul loss. The fight will happen if Riona takes Sayaka's soul.

Edit: In short, we are literally trying to derail a prophecy that would make us come to blows with Riona so she should be interested in working with us if she doesn't want to fight us.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Sep 3, 2018 at 4:00 PM, finished with 375 posts and 27 votes.
  • [x] Internally, mentally:
    -[x] Calm down. Channel some of that "excellent actress" Kyuubey accused you of being to avoid showing Rionna your internal strife.
    -[x] Rionna might be refusing to "give up" her sisters shade. You need to work around that.
    -[x] If her sister is a shade, she might be denying the ethical implications of her actions to protect her own psyche.
    [x] Externally, to Rionna.
    -[x] Address her "giving up what I have" line. You don't want to take things away. What you want is to provide her - everyone - with what they need for more humane approaches to flourish.
    --[x] Would she really keep souls trapped if, by her own judgement, it became unnecessary?
    -[x] You want Rionna to stop killing people. There's other ways to stop those that abuse magic. And you'd like to examine her shades, and see if they're suffering.
    -[x] Carefully, to avoid the potential sister trigger, try and get across that if she has shades she's maintaining for personal reasons, or hopes to revive, you'd be happy to help.
    [X] Potential secondary topics, at brinapilots discretion:
    -[X] De-Witching.
    --[X] Let Riona examine Aurora.
    --[X] Explain your experiments so far.
    -[X] Ask after her powers.
    --[X] What does your Soul look like?
    -[X] Wish rejection: describe Oriko's symptoms.
    -[X] Show Rionna the Feather, ask if there's anything unusual about it.
    [x] Plan:
    -[x] She'd be unwilling to give up her sister's shade and you think she might be equally unwilling to reveal that she has it.
    -[x] You'll make a stab in the dark about her power's origin and use it as grounds for giving her a way out.
    -[x] Make an offer that would let her keep her sister's shade without talking about it.
    -[x] Note that, if she is holding her sister's shade, she's likely denying the ethical implications of her actions out of self-defense.
    [x] She won't release her wraiths now, fine. And you won't deny her her home or safety. But would she really keep those souls trapped if it became unnecessary?
    [x] You want Rionna to stop murdering people, and if any of her shades are suffering you want that stopped.
    [x] But. But. You can't think of many ways a girl gets a power like Rionna's.
    [x] If there are any shades that she needs to keep, and she doesn't want to explain who they are or why she needs them... you won't ask questions, and she'll have full access to your research network.
    [x] Does that sound like what she needs?
    [X] Show her the Clear Seed. Explain what she's seeing: the sheer capacity, the quiescent nature of the witch, the way it absorbs hope magic.
    -[x] And this is just a stopgap measure to keep everyone's gem clean while we create a real solution.
    [x] If she wants cleansing and dewitching, then the only way that it's going to be possible is by working with us.
    -[x] As she's said, everybody's tried but nobody's been able to... until now.
    --[x] And if there's something else she wants, we can make that possible, too.
    ---[X]No guarantees, obviously, we're powerful not omnipotent, but we can't negotiate when any attempt at finding out what she actually wants is stonewalled with variations of "None of your business/not giving up my power/your soul", the latter of which she has to know isn't going to happen.
    [X] Sabrina-Pilot on key points
    -[X] Acknowledge that asking her to reject the powers of her Wish is a huge thing, and she probably had good reasons for seeking such power. Mention that even if we're unable to deliver fully, we'll still understand if she has a special shade or two she /cant/ release because its too important. That's something we'd obviously be fine with until a better solution appears even if we reject the idea of holding other hostiles and innocents in stasis.
    -[X] If she doesn't want our help, fine, put that aside a moment. Acknowledge lack of detail to our promises. Bring out special Clear Seeds (happy-grief and quiescent ones, at least) , mention tests and ask opinion on results thus far. Is this at least any better than other attempts she's aware of? Can she do that at least that much considering she isn't going to get anything productive out of this trip otherwise?
    [x] Show her the Clear Seed. Explain what she's seeing: the sheer capacity, the quiescent nature of the witch, the way it absorbs hope magic.
    -[x] And this is just a stopgap measure to keep everyone's gem clean while we create a real solution.
    [x] If she wants cleansing and dewitching, then the only way that it's going to be possible is by working with us.
    -[x] As she's said, everybody's tried but nobody's been able to... until now.
    --[x] And if there's something else she wants, we can probably make that possible, too.
    [X] gem her
    [X] Sabrina-Pilot on key points
    -[X] Acknowledge that asking her to reject the powers of her Wish is a huge thing, and she probably had good reasons for it. Mention that even if our offered help witht he problem isn't enough, we still understand she might have a special shade or two she /cant/ release because its too important. Thats something we'd obviously be fine with until a better solution appears even if we reject the idea of holding other hostiles and innocents in stasis.
    -[X] If she doesn't want our help, fine, put that aside a moment. Acknowledge lack of detail to our promises. Bring out special Clear Seeds (happy-grief and quiescent ones, at least) , mention tests and ask opinion on results thus far. Is this at least any better than other attempts she's aware of? Can she at least offer that much if she doesn't want anything from us after this long trip?
    [X] Null
    [X] Call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting.
    -[X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    -[X] Tone: resigned
    --[X] Explain Riona's impressions and the conversation so far. How she had seem unrepentant of holding souls hostages, how the only help she accepts is demananding your soul gem, how she doesn't show regret for Shading even non-magcal girls, everything except things related to witchbomb. And that after everything you've tried Riona still isn't willing to release her Shades under any condition.
    --[X] Ask for suggestions on what to do. You don't want to kill Riona or degem her and put on a freezer: you'd want to have her cooperate but she just isn't interested and if Riona just walks away any other suffering she causes would be partly your fault too.
    [X] Become calm, offering a trade
    -[X] understand Rionna didn't expect to negotiate, get her ready for that.
    [x] Address "I'm not giving up what I have." We didn't come to her to take it.
    -[X] Supply beverage (read the body language.) Without Mami entering herself.
    -[X] Suggest that once she fully acknowledges others, her life gets better.
    --[X] Applies to everyone. Therefore, it concerns us.
    -[X] Things she can't have, like our magic, we will help her solve.
    [X] Practice using her Grief powers, learn from us. Obtain a copy of our powers with her effort.
    -[X] She came for an answer to some problem. The answer is here, it's just unexpected.
    [X] Secondary topics:
    -[X] De-Witching.
    --[X] Let Riona examine Aurora.
    --[X] Explain your experiments so far.
    -[X] Ask after her powers.
    --[X] What does your Soul look like?
    -[X] Wish rejection: describe Oriko's symptoms.
    [X] There is an Iowa Group out there. When is Rionna acting against them? Does she have any coherent policy outside her city?
    [X] We want to share her patrol against Grief Spreaders.
    [X] What is Rionna's bad opinion of us based on, anyway? Who told her we were bad?
    [X] Show Rionna the Feather,
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It's really hard to keep up when you guys add multiple pages any time I sleep.

Redshirt Army said:
-[x] Calm down. Channel some of that "excellent actress" Kyuubey accused you of being to not show Rionna your internal strife.
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I'm hugely in agreement with this. The fact that frustration of the thread was making Sabrina's tone more hostile hasn't done us any favors. Internal feelings do not automatically translate to external behavior. Anyone who's ever worked in the service industry has had to deal with frustrating and unpleasant customers without losing their cool because if they did, they'd lose their job. They've looked at someone they hate and said, "Have a nice day!" when they really meant, "Go fuck yourself."

@Firnagzen if Sabrina has all of our skills, then she has all the ability I've developed in twelve years of security work to deal with the belligerently drunk, the egotistically wealthy, the annoyingly obtuse, the selfish, the obnoxious, the criminal, the insane and the covered-in-their-own-excrement while remaining calm and polite, because losing your temper never helps.

Redshirt Army said:
-[x] Rionna might be refusing to "give up" her sisters shade. You need to work around that.
-[x] If her sister is a shade, she might be denying the ethical implications of her actions to protect her own psyche.
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Both good insights.

Redshirt Army said:
-[x] You want Rionna to stop killing people. There's other ways to stop those that abuse magic. And you'd like to examine her shades, and see if they're suffering.
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We might want to avoid wording that's too loaded, as she might react badly. What about this?

[ ] You can provide her with ways to stop those that abuse magic and protect herself without needing to resort to such extreme measures.

Redshirt Army said:
[X] Potential secondary topics, at brinapilots discretion:
-[X] De-Witching.
--[X] Let Riona examine Aurora.
--[X] Explain your experiments so far.
-[X] Ask after her powers.
--[X] What does your Soul look like?
-[X] Wish rejection: describe Oriko's symptoms.
-[X] Show Rionna the Feather, ask if there's anything unusual about it.
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Riona implied that she's tried to duplicate our power before, so it might be worth bringing up that we also wish to distribute the benefits of our power to others by creating alternatives to Grief Seeds.
 
So.
Things have happened.
And Firn seems to have the superhuman ability to make important posts the second I stop having internet. Honestly, I'm too impresed to be annoyed.
I want to bring that light-heartedness back. Sabrina is a silly, dorky person most of the time. Indulge yourselves!
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Did Firn just ask for more sillies? Just as I've convined myself to participate more in the thread?


Now, for the time-honoured tradition of reading all the backlog...
 
First off. Yay. Unlocked forum. I had a ln opinion in the situation that idk if other pointed out yet, but something to keep in mind. Rio is one of the oldest MGs from what I recall, and learned to be a lone wolf for that time(in fact her power supports that). This probably translate to her not wanting to ask for help or letting others get involved; if she can't do it herself, she will find another way to do it alone. The second point is, the reason Sabrina was interested in her the first place was the potential to help with the dewitching project, and Asking for her help and offering to pay might be good (its not help if its a form of payment). Those are my two cents.

Onto something silly, Sabrina should build a Warhammer army with the intent to talk battle plans with Blueberry on mass combat since she can clone herself. . . yea . . . not an excuse to play warhammer.
 
Redshirt Army said:
With regards to the current conversation on why Sabrina's potential, and powers, are as great as they are, from a more meta perspective:
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So, this is what I was half remembering earlier:
I'm not going to screw you guys over on the Wish, because... well, I need to stack the deck in your favour. You're going to need it.
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Firn did say we'd need what he's given us, and Firn's OOC reasons usually are also IC reasons.

What could we infer from this? Maybe:

Firn giving us power above the norm -> Madoka giving Sabrina power above the norm.

Madoka giving Sabrina power above the norm <- Madoka feeling we're gonna need it.

It would seem simple enough to think that, if Madoka sent us as her... main actress ( :V ), the one to go forward and try to make her Wish happen, that she'd try to stack the deck in our favour...

But... Madokami is a believer of the need of opposing forces to exist. It's possible her Wish to fix everything had an equal and opposite reaction, Feathers or whatever. Though, Madoka is one who would find a way to loophole her way into shooting that equal and opposite reaction in the face if she could.

Perhaps Madokami put enough of her Wish into us that we can face the consequences of the Wish itself.

Perhaps Madokami herself is instigating conflict, forcing us to face things in need of fixing.

... The more I think about it, the more I like the Sabrina=Walpurgisnacht idea over Sabrina=UKG. Or maybe a mix of the two; maybe UKG was used, or changed, but only a part of her, Walpurgisnacht, was humanized so it could act.

(Random thought from a few days ago: The invisitext messages we've found. At least one of them, I'm pretty sure, is straight up one of the messages that flash on the screen randomly thorough Rebellion. Maybe that's what those messages are, cards that flash by throughout the play. Being a humanized Walpurgisnacht, a script-power-related entity, would explain why we can see them?)

... I was gonna write something else here, but I lost my train of thought.
 
Firnagzen said:
I want to bring that light-heartedness back. Sabrina is a silly, dorky person most of the time. Indulge yourselves! I want the chatter funnelled back here. Do you have some crazy ideas for what Sabrina might be? Some silly concept for Sabrina to pull off? Some odd crossover? Feel free to post about them. In between votes, when it's settled, feel free to chat!
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Interesting proposal... if it wasn't by the fact the story still stuck in the same place; this game has been fun, but this conversation isn't, at least not for me.

"If you come here, you have your warface on, ready to argue." What did you expect of a character which tests the morality of Sabrina, and by extension the thread? If anything, a lack of arguing would be a failure of her design as a character.

And when you call for making the thread more lighthearted, I mostly see it as trying to distract me from the fact the game is still stuck with the conversation with Riona-; I hear "be silly" when there's nothing to be silly about right now. And with how last updates have only netted a few words from Sabrina and Riona...

(Granted, it probably it isn't your intention but sounds too much as making happiness mandatory, which makes me react even worse at the thread)

But you probably know all of that, and I suppose you as the QM have been hit by all of this harder than any players. That's why the thread has been locked for longer than necessary and why you intend to use some QM veto and railroad a lot (which I think it's a good thing) .

I'm just rambling at this point, even more frustrated now since I wanted a lot to see the thread reopened and yet everything is effectively the same. I'm aware things may get better next update but that update isn't here yet. (Honestly, I'd have very much preferred you to have hold the de-lock and this post until next update; and about the option chosen? override votes to... whatever option you'd have chosen, it wouldn't be OoC for Sabrina... it isn't like 2 or 3 more days with the thread locked have been made the difference at this point)

tl;dr: Sorry but no, because as much as I want, I can't like pmas as a game right now.
 
I think we're waiting for Firn to post first, his post seemed to imply that he had a plan for the next post that would clarify the current situation a little bit at the expense of our agency, hence his comment regarding 'railroading'.
 
I want to point out that, well, seeing someone who is clearly pissed off at you and conflicted about something suddenly calming down?

That can really easily look like they're about to start a fight.
 
I don't think any amount of practice will turn other grief powers into our powers- they're not a martial art, they're conceptual powers of the soul. Er, also that'd require us to leave all those slaves with her indefinitely, which, no matter what they did they don't deserve that. Also also I don't think I trust Riona with a gem shatter, even if we could teach her our powers. Like, not to immediately start a morality debate, but she's clearly untrustworthy.

Also, yeah given how disgusted Sabrina is with her, that'll prooooooooooooooooooobably look like "asswhupping incoming"
 
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