[X] The Narrator

That said, I will add for anyone who wants to do a cleanse, you might want to consider announcing it first in case she reacts.
 
Your numbers are absurd, and therefore wrong. 40 seeds a week is one every 4 hours. What do you think she's doing when she sleeps for eight?

She could command a shade to use one on her soul gem while she sleeps maybe?

Edit: Or she takes advantage of lichdom and doesn't sleep.
 
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Idea for convincing Riona we're different.

[X]You want my power that badly? Do you have any power copiers you can try to get mine? The ones I've met can't do it. I could use an insurance policy.
 
Another thought that occurs to me is that Riona didn't hear about us from Nadia. She heard about us from someone in Tokyo. Possibly someone in the faction that's vehemently opposed to accepting our help. It's possible that they implied a lot of bad stuff about us.

It might not hurt to tell her that Nadia would vouch for us.
 
Tentative edit:

EDIT: More tentative edit.

EDIT EDIT: Ninja'd? :V

[] Reaction: Disappointment.
-[] Calm down.
-[] Offer cleansing and cleanse yourself.

[] Look Riona in the eyes. Override interruptions.
-[] Put your cards on the table. Your goals are:
--[] To free Magical Girls from the need for Seeds and territory; to allow them to have normal lives.
--[] To reverse Witchification.
-[] Nadia thinks we're crazy for wanting this, but both she and Kyuubey confirmed our power works. We can do this.

[] Ask Riona:
-[] Whether she can help with any of that.
-[] What does she want?
-[] Why does she seem so keen on going back home empty handed?
--[ ] She knows coming her and making demands while refusing to give anything in return won't get her anything from us.

Demonstrating by cleaning our own gem might not be a terrible idea. We've done it before.
Reading back, we've cleansed Riona's Gem already.



... Why does
--[X] To reverse Witchification.

Rhyme so well with
---[Q] To unite all people within our nation,
 
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the general direction of our reply?
She really only prepared to come here and exterminate, right? Even though she was told different?
Let us be condescending, not about her shades, but about her ability to think.

"You have forgotten why you started down your path by now, is it? You came to find me, and now that there is no fight before you, you have no idea what to do??"

I don't need her as a friend, if she won't do that. We should save at any time if possible, and trade with her if we can't.
 
Tentative edit:

EDIT: More tentative edit.

[X] Reaction: Disappointment.
-[X] Calm down.
-[X] Offer cleansing and cleanse yourself.

[X] Look Riona in the eyes. Override interruptions.
-[X] Put your goals on the table:
--[X] To free Magical Girls from the need for Seeds and territory, to allow them to have normal lives.
--[X] To reverse Witchification.
-[X] Nadia thinks we're crazy for wanting this, but both she and Kyuubey confirmed our power works. We can do this.

[X] Ask Riona:
-[X] Whether she can help with any of that.
-[X] What does she want?
-[X] Why does she seem so keen on going back home empty handed?
--[ ] She knows coming her and making demands while refusing to give anything in return won't get her anything from us.


Reading back, we've cleansed Riona's Gem already.



... Why does

Rhyme so well with

The funny was unintentional. I'd like to remind you she already told us she wants our power. Better something like "beyond survive, what would you do with my powers?"
 
[X] Onmur

Moralizing against Riona isn't going to work, she's clearly heard it all before, if we want to redeem her and potentially save the girls in her care then we need to establish a working relationship with her. It's not that we "need" her for something. It's that initiating hostilities accomplishes nothing except stroking our white knight complex. Sure it "Frees the souls" but it either "Frees them into death" which isn't really saving anyone, or it "returns them automatically" which means a bunch of coma patients with no support, along with more than a few actively malicious grief controllers (even if, miraculously none of her other girls are evil).

Beyond that, I am also getting really tired of all the people judging her. The more I see of her character, the more I see actually Kyoko. Or does anyone think, for a second, if Kyoko had Riona's power she wouldn't behave exactly the same way? If we refuse to judge her positively simply based on her usefulness (which I agree with), then we shouldn't judge her negatively just because she's so powerful. We can't have our cake and eat it too. In PMMM-verse, we usually don't even get a cake to begin with.

Being unconscious is not the same as being used as a slave. Gemming her is more like prison.
We have no indication that the Shades are "aware" Riona says they aren't. I'm inclined to believe her because she's shown a willingness to disgorge the worst aspects of her power so I don't see why she'd lie here. And arguing that something is better because it's like solitary confinement is not an upgrade. Prison is, in a lot of cases, comparable to slavery. Yes, we don't have any indication that she'll be aware, but if that's the case we'll still be doing what Riona is doing, if her Shades are not aware. Plus, again, if any girl would be aware of their gem form, it would be Riona.

Idea for convincing Riona we're different.

[X]You want my power that badly? Do you have any power copiers you can try to get mine? The ones I've met can't do it. I could use an insurance policy.
No way to enforce that. She gets our power and she's out, who know, maybe she just kills us too then for being an idiot because we can't be trusted with our power (though less likely). Either way though, we lose all ability to enforce any agreement on her, not the least of which because we just gave away the tactical advantage.

Which specifically do not allow for a net gain in magic capacity. We're the only free lunch in town.
She could easily have a controller move her grief into a grief seed while she sleep. She could also, among other things, have a girl who obviates the need for sleep. She has plenty of powers. Any one of them could solve this problem.
 
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Have we figured out what Riona wants from us? We're assuming it's cleansing or something, but if high school taught me anything, it's to never assume nothing.

Once again, guys, every single cleanser Riona has run into before us was a liar. Every. Single. One.

She came here fully intending to expose and kill us, and it's entirely possible the only reason she didn't attack on sight is because the rumours were prevalent enough that she dared to believe we might be real.

We are real, and now she's come for -in her eyes- nothing.

She has nothing to do here unless we give her something, and even then, she may turn it down.

Let's show her the clear seed and talk about dewitchification, then make it clear that she is to attack no one in our city for the duration of her stay and let her go. We can talk with our allies afterwards.

She'll be here for a day, so it's not like we have to get every single point here and now, and if we really decide we absolutely have to kill her, we can do it later when she's not fucking ready for it.

[x] Onmur

For now.
 
I must say reading the comments immediately following the update left me quite sad.

Seeing the people going "lol slavery kill hur dur". I mean it was soul gem crushingly depressing, but still funny.

She has done what she needed to do to survive, and will continue to do so. We can and would not cut our arms and legs off on the promise that maybe someone would make it so we could fly. And frankly its just... really really dumb that you guys would even ask that.

You have not only ignored the reason she felt the need to go to these lengths. You are ignoring the possibility of justification. Which is hypocritical, as well as being 100% against the spirit you Sabrina is claiming to uphold.

On top of that you have gone straight to murder despite knowing virtually nothing about the situation. Which is something I would expect from Homura, I mean crazy imbalanced gun toting lunatic Homura, not our Homura. Sabrina has been extremely against the idea of murder in the past and I am shocked that she went from 0 to Homulily in the span of about 5 seconds.

If somebody challenges your ideals. Challenges them in a conversation, by respectfully disagreeing with you...

I'm disappointed in all of you.
 
--[X] To reverse Witchification.
-[X] Nadia thinks we're crazy for wanting this, but both she and Kyuubey confirmed our power works. We can do this.

Again, instead of telling her we can do this, we should show her we can do this, by letting her inspect the Hope-infused Clear Seed. It would take next to no time at all.
 
Does it seem like Riona is trying to goad us into attacking to anyone else? She flew from Europe to Japan but only planned to stay for a single day, meaning she planned to wrap this up quickly, which makes me think that she was planning to just sweep in and kill us, as opposed to the negotiations that we're trying right now.
 
This conversation just made me have a disturbing thought.

If we manage to successfully figure out de-witching, is there a chance that Kyubey might decide that the most efficient way to save the universe is to reverse engineer de-witching and then take some of the filled Grief Seeds that have already been handed over to the Incubators away from Earth to just repeatedly witch out and de-witch over and over again?
 
Nearly impossible to finish writing a post because somebody else will post before you can....


-[X] Nadia thinks we're crazy for wanting this, but both she and Kyuubey confirmed our power works. We can do this.
Oh, you also thought of it. Definitely think your latest changes are an improvement.


-[X] What does she want?
-[X] Why does she seem so keen on going back home empty handed?
I'd like to remind you she already told us she wants our power.
She wanted our power, but the only way to get it is to kill us and we haven't given her any reason too, so maybe she wants to get away from us before we do something to change that? She keeps changing her mind... maybe she's conflicted?
 
Since nobody noticed this, Riona does not think we have the ability to keep ourselves alive. Let alone actually work on and pull off a major scientific endeavor like DE-witching someone.

"Is that all of ye, or just yourself?" Rionna asks, rolling her eyes. "I'm to stay a day and flying back home."

She probably thinks its just us and Mami who can barely hold herself together when away from us.
 
Does it seem like Riona is trying to goad us into attacking to anyone else? She flew from Europe to Japan but only planned to stay for a single day, meaning she planned to wrap this up quickly, which makes me think that she was planning to just sweep in and kill us, as opposed to the negotiations that we're trying right now.

Apparently, every single grief controller she heard of before us was a fake manipulating the girls around them. So yeah, she probably came to kill us, but now we've shown we're genuine, she's skipping that and figuring she might as well head home since there's nothing to smite around here.
 
Since nobody noticed this, Riona does not think we have the ability to keep ourselves alive. Let alone actually work on and pull off a major scientific endeavor like DE-witching someone.



She probably thinks its just us and Mami who can barely hold herself together when away from us.
She definitely hasn't asked Nadia about us, then.

(I really wish we'd asked Nadia to contact her before she got here.)
 
Does it seem like Riona is trying to goad us into attacking to anyone else? She flew from Europe to Japan but only planned to stay for a single day, meaning she planned to wrap this up quickly, which makes me think that she was planning to just sweep in and kill us, as opposed to the negotiations that we're trying right now.
Yes. We are, probabilistically speaking within a 'normal' PMMM universe, 99.999...% evil.

It's only Madokami's wish that allowed us to Wish for Grief powers in a good way, and have it work. Sabrina really is unique.


Edited out problematic line:


[X] Reaction: Disappointment.
-[X] Calm down.
-[X] Offer cleansing and cleanse yourself.

[X] Look Riona in the eyes. Override interruptions.
-[X] Put your cards on the table. Your goals are:
--[X] To free Magical Girls from the need for Seeds and territory; to allow them to have normal lives.
--[X] To reverse Witchification.
-[X] Nadia thinks we're crazy for wanting this, but both she and Kyuubey confirmed our power works. We can do this.

[X] Ask Riona:
-[X] Whether she can help with any of that.
-[X] What does she want?
 
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No way to enforce that. She gets our power and she's out, who know, maybe she just kills us too then for being an idiot because we can't be trusted with our power (though less likely). Either way though, we lose all ability to enforce any agreement on her, not the least of which because we just gave away the tactical advantage.
I'm expecting her to be unable to copy us anyways, whether from us being uncopyable that way, not having a power copier, or her power forbidding recursion. If she can't copy us when other griefbenders can be copied that's a sign we're different we can use to talk her into dewitching research. If she doesn't have a power copier or her powers forbid recursion we throw her off balance.

As for the possibility of her succeeding? People are naturally more prolifigate in times of abundance and we added a harder target to KB's radar. We risk a bloody and spectacular mess anyways if we try to force anything so whatever happens we win.
 
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Are you suggesting that she can transfer her grief into other people's gems in her sleep? I doubt it.

*eyeroll* "Ghost-slave, griefbend my grief into these seeds/these other ghosts while I sleep."

It also seems like she has a moral objection to using that power though. Like it's one of the bad things she doesn't do in order to convince herself that she's a good person and all the bad things she does do are ok.

"I only put grief in my bad-people ghosts."

Your numbers are absurd, and therefore wrong. 40 seeds a week is one every 4 hours. What do you think she's doing when she sleeps for eight?

She has ghost slaves who can manage her city-wide security while she's half-way across the planet.

Which specifically do not allow for a net gain in magic capacity. We're the only free lunch in town.

She has ghosts she doesn't respect or care about the well-being of.

Beyond that, I am also getting really tired of all the people judging her. The more I see of her character, the more I see actually Kyoko. Or does anyone think, for a second, if Kyoko had Riona's power she wouldn't behave exactly the same way?

Fuck yeah, I can. Kyouko doesn't literally feed people to Familiars, she just goes 'not my problem' and keeps walking. She doesn't let Witches kill humans, either. She instantly caves on her policy around people she wants the approval of, and doesn't enjoy doing it.

Also, thanks to Magireco, we know for a fact that she finds any and all mind control absolutely, totally abhorrent and disgusting, and since she's her father's daughter and sincerely believes everything he preached, probably wouldn't be too keen on soul-stealing garbage bullshit.

Stop fucking comparing Riona to Kyouko, they're on entirely different levels.
 
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