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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Firnagzen said:
In which Rionna short-circuits most of Onmur's giant vote.
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Always a possibility!

It seems Riona's not that interested in infinite cleansing. We also can't really answer question about out origins... and we probably don't want to, at any rate.

First offer: Wish Riona a nice day. Just as a matter of security, we she will have to stay inside the privacy field for the duration of her stay. Make it so. Wish her a safe trip back home. Reconsider only if she reconsiders first.

Not that this would be a good idea. But it would feel good for a few minutes. :p
 
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[] Are you interested in curing witches or not?
-[] If yes, see about working with her until her flight back as a trial run.
-[] If not, kill her.
 
Seems like the end of the line being unable to get to an agreement, in this case there I think we should talk things over with the rest:

[ ] Discretely call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting with her, Homura and Sayaka
-[ ] Get them up to date with the meering with Riona
-[ ] Agree on the next course of action


Even Specially if the final decision is killing Riona this is a decision Sabrina must not do by herself.
 
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I hate to say it, but getting harder seems to be the only language she will listen to. Ultimatums, or beating her down, show of superiority. Which sucks hard-core, because that's NOT how we do things if we can help it, Sendai was a special circumstance where things were already out of control. Why Rionnnnna, why can't you make things easy?

Threatening her probably won't go over well, even if I'm sure we can beat her if it really comes down to it, but restraining her will probably be a bitch and a half. Uuuugh.
 
This is sad. I think here's someone who clings so hard to power, she cannot condone the idea of letting go of any of it.

Kind of like Kyouko and her lone wolf thing, only a lot worse.



[] Reaction: Sad.
-[] Tell her you can't help her like this.
-[?] You can't give her what she wants if this is how she's gonna be.
-[] Ask: Would she really just go back home empty handed?

[] Ask about the Shades. The kind of people she's taken.
-[] Try to learn about the worst and best of Riona's victims.



We do want de-Witching to be a thing. We should not forget that.

Riona's threatening us, playing hardball. The conversation is not over.

I'd like to talk about the shades. Find whether Riona really only sees them as her puppets/collection or if she's just talking shit. Keep talking, at any rate.

EDIT: If Riona's answer to 'would she go back emptyhanded' is a flat yes... that would be really alarming. At the very least we would need to monitor her, because she might want to steal a Clear Seed, then.
 
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I suppose the one obvious thing to note is that knocking her out for an extended period sounds like it would kill the shades. So that removes one of the objections to the "gem her" plan of attack crowd. And they get an objection to the diplomacy plan via the 1 day before she flies back thing.

I'd like to try the diplomacy route if possible but I'm coming up blank for a good line of argument.

Filraen said:
Seems like the end of the line being unable to get to an agreement, in this case there I think we should talk things over with the rest:

[ ] Discretely call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting with her, Homura and Sayaka
-[ ] Get them up to date with the meering with Riona
-[ ] Consult on the next course of action


Even Specially if the result if Killing Riona this shouldn't be a decision Sabrina should do by herself.
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The consulting with allies idea has its' merits. Giving them partial control of such an important decision would reinforce their importance as partners, not subordinates. But we'd have to live with whatever they come up with. And there's a decent chance that decision will be "tell her to fuck off but let her leave" which I think we're not huge fans of in general. That's almost certainly Homura's vote. Even Mami is used to Magical Girl politics in all their ... questionable nature ... by now; she's likely to want nothing to do with her but might not advocate an outright intervention.
 
Oh, an idea.

Hidden-text Mami but to ask her to telepathy Nadia and ask if she knows what to do with a hardball playing Riona.
 
So, one of those doozy situations, huh?

Many things to consider, many beyond me, and many more that would likely be vetoed by Rionna.

I don't consider myself in any way able to give an answer, but perhaps some food for thought?

Well, we were hoping on her to help with reversing/curing witches, right? We don't really know how much she could help, but it's about the best shot we got. So, it's like we got this soul slavery thing on one hand and said best shot at this massive milestone goal on the other. We don't really know her well, nor what it's like in London. While persuading her to stop the slavery would be ideal, that seems like a near-guaranteed fail... At least, for now.

I mean, this is like Oriko level difficulty diplomacy here, except we know even less on what to expect from Rionna. Tension is kinda high right now, too.
Persuading her may be something we'll have to compromise and put on hold for now for the sake of that goal. Time to learn more and hopefully slow burn our way towards a solution.

But what do I know? :V I'm sure you veteran discussion-ers...ers can come up with better ideas.
 
As far as a potential diplomatic approach goes I'm thinking something along the lines of:

[] "I may be idealistic but I'm not a fucking moron Riona. You don't spend years searching for a cleansing power and then just walk away. I may not be able to just give you cleansing but one of my clear seeds is effectively the same thing; each one allows for literally thousands of cleanses. With even one you can save up all the grief seeds in your territory to pay merc magical girls to protect it instead of the shades. With two you can put them on permanent retainer. I *am* willing to pay reasonable compensation for losses induced by compliance with my ideals."

Basically:
Show we're not a easily pushed around or stupid person
Rub in her face just how much she'd gain from working with us
Offer her a path where she profits from cooperating with us despite the cost associated with our ideals - try to move the conversation to what reimbursement would be necessary for her to comply.
 
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It's weird what things will trip audience reactions and what won't. I feel like usually if someone with Riona's power showed up in a quest or other fiction everybody would shrug their shoulders and go, "Cool power." Maybe just choose to take her at her word about the shades being insensate if it troubled them.

Instead in this case a few people call 'slavery' and then it becomes a huge thing and everybody feels obligated to care.
 
blast flame said:
As far as a potential diplomatic approach goes I'm thinking something along the lines of:

[] "I may be idealistic but I'm not a fucking moron Riona. You don't spend years searching for a cleansing power and then just walk away. I may not be able to just give you cleansing but one of my clear seeds is effectively the same thing; each one allows for literally thousands of cleanses. With even one you can save up all the grief seeds in your territory to pay merc magical girls to protect it instead of the shades. With two you can put them on permanent retainer. I *am* willing to pay reasonable compensation for losses induced by compliance with my ideals."

Basically:
Show we're not a easily pushed around or stupid person
Rub in her face just how much she'd gain from working with us
Offer her a path where she profits from cooperating with us despite the cost associated with our ideals - try to move the conversation to what reimbursement would be necessary for her to comply.
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The problem with that plan is mercs taking them by force.
 
I'm fairly confident she doesn't want Sabrina dead or witched because she still wants access to Sabrina's powers but will kill Sabrina if the alternative is dying herself.

I'm also fairly sure that she has some counter that she believes is sufficient to defend against us. If we attack her without dealing with the counter (or counters) then we are in big trouble. Do we know that the gem she has on her is actually hers and not a decoy? If we don't then her actual gem might be held by a shade with a notice me not power or something.

If we let her go then she is still going to want our powers and won't have many scruples about getting it. She will try to control us using different kinds of magic mind control, hostage taking or other forms of leverage. Infinite cleansing is too valuable to her.
 
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Sigh.

Riona pls. Just. Just pls.

Can you not enslave souls? Plskthxbye.

[] Reaction: Sad.
-[] Tell her you can't help her like this.
-[] You can't give her what she wants if this is how she's gonna be.
-[] Ask: Would she really just go back home empty handed?

[] Ask about the Shades. The kind of people she's taken.
-[] Try to learn about the worst and best of Riona's victims.
[] You still want to cure witches.

[] Subtly tell Mami to get Homu here.
-[] Timestop. Talk about Riona.
--[] Plan. Specifically, what to do about Riona.

We should ask Nadia if she knows about any other soul people.

Really, Riona seems to be a bit more trouble than she's worth.
 
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[] "Next time we talk, it will be me coming to your city. With friends."

Sooo tempted.

The problem here is, she's convinced herself she must use her powers in order to survive.

I have a question, though. Does she have an argument against stopping to rip more shades out of people?
I mean, her defenses are already there, they've lasted for years. What, does she need to update them or something?

Again. About judging. We cannot, as in, legally cannot, and I'm not talking about "ripping Souls outta people is no crime", I'm talking about "Megucas go around beating the shit out of their fallen to despair comrades and using them as tissues in order to survive a little more".

The whole world is fucked up, for Magical Girls at the very least. Amidst the sea of wanton cruelty, our only hope is establishing a policy and enlarging it continuously in order to encompass the whole world and beyoooond! This day, the world, and by the end of the week? The universe!

Couldn't resist.

But seriously. We need to think of something now. Next time we meet her, she will most likely be on the business end of our hammer, and we will have appropriate authority to call her a criminal and judge her accordingly. I would rather not let it come to that.
 
I have an idea of what I want to do. Main point would be Keep. Talking.



I think there's a very important point we need to focus on, and which will decide our actions after we're done talking: Does Riona really see people as collectibles?

[] Overall (hidden) conversation goal: Question Riona's opinion about her shades, and whether she truly sees people as things to be collected.

[] Reaction: Sad.
-[] You can't help her like this.
--[] It's what you made your Wish for, did she know? To help Magical Girls, free them from the need for Seeds, for territory, even help those who fell and became Witches.
-[] Offer Grief Cleansing, cleanse yourself.

[] Hidden: Text Mami.
-[] Ask her to contact Nadia and ask for tips on how to handle a hardball playing Riona.
-[] Create a signal for her and Homura in case things go south.
-[] Use Grief to allow her to speak back to you.

[] Keep talking.
-[] Ask Riona if you can get her anything. Hungry?
-[] Ask about the shades, the kind of people she's attacked.
--[] Try to make her think about them. As people.
--[] Try to find how she sees people, and how she decides whether it's 'OK' to 'take' someone.


BTW, no gemsploding if at all possible. If we can't convince Riona with words, at the very least we want Sayaka to copy her powers.


MrCogmor said:
Do we know that the gem she has on her is actually hers and not a decoy?
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We can sense her Witch.
 
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