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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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I think "I don't think I'd have even offered to tell you if I didn't think you could handle it." is a nice way to start. But then stress that even if she can in fact handle it she'll probably be less happy once she knows, at least for a while.
 
Onmur said:
Maybe we could say... we can imagine circumstances in which the knowledge would kill her... but current circumstances (friends, Grief cleansing, maybe even de-Witching in the future) makes us think she could handle it?
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perhaps - I was just giving my first thoughts on the matter since sometimes I feel like we go into the weeds on things so rather then overthink things I look at my FIRST reaction and decide why I react like that.

Then I post that! Of course the idea was mainly to help us with social by figurtively being the guy to suggest saying 'hello' as everyone else argues over line 25 of the introduction : P
 
Huuuh
So, like, an overmind controlling each instance of Sayaka, but I guess they only translate emotions to each other, not every sensory input.
 
[X] I know you can handle it, and that some things will make a lot more sense for you. But I also think that it'll make the world feel much darker.
 
[X] I know you can handle it, and that some things will make a lot more sense for you. But I also think that it'll make the world feel much darker.
 
Firnagzen said:
"Huh," you say. "Remind me to find out later - can I cleanse your clone to cleanse your real self?"

"Ooh, good idea,"
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Sayaka's clones don't have a range limit, right? If we could figure out a way to get the clones to absorb grief (maybe with a copy of our grief powers?), then we could pull it from the real Sayaka at a central location....

...Of course, if we did that then our obelisks would be powered by a forsaken child. :V
 
I just had a thought; if she's alright with having clones as her bodies then wouldn't she feel something like the same about having a stone/crystal/gem body, and remote controling her meat body with it? It's all Sayaka after all.
 
[X] I know you can handle it, and that some things will make a lot more sense for you. But I also think that it'll make the world feel much darker.
 
ummm

I feel like the current vote is somehow TOO short I mean I don't want a long one but I feel like one where you explain why the world gets darker. She's asking us to make a comment on how we view her, why not include the actual view point we have of her?
 
Much as I like Sayaka, I am very fearful of giving her either infobomb.

And I would tell her as much. She MIGHT be able to handle it, but we fear what may happen to her if she can't.
 
*appears to try his hand at making a vote*

[X] I think probably could handle it. Or at least you could with some help. With me around the grief spiral isn't as much of an issue as it would be for others. Even still, this is the kind of secret that can completely change your worldview, the kind that can make you a different person. If it turns out that you can't handle it, well... With me around you probably won't outright die, but you may very well live long enough to go crazy.
-[X] But that's only half of the issue. The other part of it is whether or not you can handle the burden of secrecy that will be on your shoulders. I don't mean any offense, but you are a little impulsive, and most others definitely won't be able to handle it.
--[X] Anyway, food for thought.

*vanishes again*
 
Dragontrapper said:
If we could figure out a way to get the clones to absorb grief (maybe with a copy of our grief powers?), then we could pull it from the real Sayaka at a central location....
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While Sabrina's powers are uncopyable, those of other Grief controllers are probably up for grabs. They typically have the flaw that they only move it between containers rather than removing it, but in this case we only want to move it to the global Sayaka network anyway.
 
blast flame said:
I'm curious about the precise reason behind your screaming. Is it just the general fact that Sayaka is comparing us to the devil? Or do you have some theory in which we're a mindwiped agent of Homucifer or something?
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I do have to admit, Sabrina actually being a unknowing Klara Doll is a interesting counter theory to the Agent of Madokami one.
 
First attempt at a vote

[X] "Honestly Sayaka, I don't know how you react to this, and that's scary for me. On your own, knowing this would weigh you down, and I'm not sure if you could hold on.
But you aren't alone. We aren't alone. I meant it when I told you and Madoka that having normal friends helps us stay sane. And Homura and I would both be here to support you after learning this secret."
[X] "I believe that you can survive this, especially if you promise to talk with Homura and myself about how you are doing. I just need you to understand that you would not be the only one hurt if this doesn't stay a secret."

[X] During the Fight
- [X] See how much Sayaka has improved against familiars.
- [X] Provide some assistance against the witch, but don't leave Sayaks feeling useless with nothing to do
- [X] Keep enough active grief on hand to prevent traumatic witch injury AND Sayaka going berserk against what she might learn is a fallen meguca
 
ummm *ponders making a vote*

I got to go to work so.. later
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Jun 12, 2018 at 7:15 AM, finished with 139292 posts and 18 votes.
  • [X] I know you can handle it, and that some things will make a lot more sense for you. But I also think that it'll make the world feel much darker.
    [X] "Honestly Sayaka, I don't know how you react to this, and that's scary for me. On your own, knowing this would weigh you down, and I'm not sure if you could hold on.
    [X] "I believe that you can survive this, especially if you promise to talk with Homura and myself about how you are doing. I just need you to understand that you would not be the only one hurt if this doesn't stay a secret."
    [X] During the Fight
    - [X] See how much Sayaka has improved against familiars.
    - [X] Provide some assistance against the witch, but don't leave Sayaks feeling useless with nothing to do
    - [X] Keep enough active grief on hand to prevent traumatic witch injury AND Sayaka going berserk against what she might learn is a fallen meguca
    [X] It's not going to kill her or drive her insane. She's arguably a near-optimal case for learning about it under the circumstances.
    -[X] Full disclosure, though, to our knowledge 90% of whatever benefits are available from knowing it are also available from knowing that it exists but not actually knowing it -- if she's willing to put that level of trust in us, anyway.
    --[X] And in truth, our overriding concern is Mitakihara Group's cohesion. As long as this group is intact and well our chances of fixing literally everything are extant. We're already the most powerful concentration of force on the planet, and two of us have been meguca for less than a month. Where will we be if we're all still alive in a few years? A decade? Mami has only been a meguca for two years. You strongly prefer to act altruistically as much as possible, but the absolute fact of the matter is that as long as Mitakihara Group is alive and trusts each other, you expect that in the long term there is very little else that will matter.
    ---[X] Ignoring the fact that you genuinely care about all of them, protecting that has to be your first priority as a matter of morality, whatever it takes, even when you're not sure of the best way to do it. Homura is concerned that telling Sayaka about "it" will wind up dragging Madoka into this, which would be bad on a number of levels. You're concerned that not making the offer would be not only wrong but a violation of trust that could be used as a lever.
    ----[X] At the end of the day, though, if she's willing to trust you as much as she has simply by letting you unload on her like this... There's only one thing worth remembering, in the end: Kyubey is humanity's enemy, full-stop. He -- it -- is more intelligent than any of us, and would emotionlessly preside over our total destruction for its benefit.
    [X] I think probably could handle it. Or at least you could with some help. With me around the grief spiral isn't as much of an issue as it would be for others. Even still, this is the kind of secret that can completely change your worldview, the kind that can make you a different person. If it turns out that you can't handle it, well... With me around you probably won't outright die, but you may very well live long enough to go crazy.
    -[X] But that's only half of the issue. The other part of it is whether or not you can handle the burden of secrecy that will be on your shoulders. I don't mean any offense, but you are a little impulsive, and most others definitely won't be able to handle it.
    --[X] Anyway, food for thought.
    [x] You know she'll survive it, because you know her and you'll be there to support her.
    [x] But survival isn't what she's asking about, is it?
    [x] You... think she'd be better off. In the end, when everything is said and done.
    -[x] You don't want to bias her, but there's a thing to be fixed here.
    [X] If I didn't think you could handle it, I would never have given you the choice in the first place.
    [X] You believe she can handle it, as long as she let us help her into coming to terms with it.
    [X] Answer Sayaka:
    -[X] You believe she can handle it. Not alone. But her current circumstances? Just damn about optimal.
    -[X] If she can trust you, you'll do your best to help her come to terms with it.
    [X] Vote in abeyance.
    -[X] Hang back, let Sayaka strut her stuff
    -[X] Comment she should copy your Chibies some time, so she could compare them to her own clones.
    -[X] Afterwards, give Sayaka Kyouko's payment for today.
    [X] I know you can handle it, and that some things will make a lot more sense for you. But I also think that it'll make the world feel much darker.
    -[X] Sayaka touched on it earlier with not being able to talk to her friends: Needing to keep it secret is how you think it could hurt her in particular. That's what she should be weighing.
    [X] During the Fight
    - [X] Fight equally with her
    [X] Answer Sayaka:
    -[x] It's not going to kill her or drive her insane. She's arguably a near-optimal case for learning about it under the circumstances; with us to support her, we believe she would survive it.
    --[x] But survival isn't what she's asking about, is it?
    --[x] We... think she'd be better off. In the end, when everything is said and done. But we also think that it'll make the world feel much darker. We don't know exactly how she would react. That scares us.
    --[x] We would do our level best to help her come to terms with it.
    --[x] We just need her to understand that she would not be the only one hurt if this doesn't stay a secret.
    ---[X] She touched on it earlier with not being able to talk to her friends: Needing to keep it secret is how we think it could hurt her in particular. That's what she should be weighing.
    [x] Vote in abeyance. Add:
    -[X] During the Fight:
    - [X] See how much Sayaka has improved against familiars.
    --[X] Provide some assistance against the witch, but don't leave Sayaka feeling useless with nothing to do
    [x] This will change how she sees her own existence, and that of magical girls, for the worst; but yes, you think she can handle knowing the truth, whether she thinks she'll be able to keep the secret without letting it take control of her life and interfere with her, Madoka and Hitomi's friendship is up to her to decide; but she must know, you're working in fixing the issue, and while she could also help, and it would be appreciated, you're pretty sure you can do it on your own, so she must not worry about it if she decides not knowing.
    -[X] The reason you wanted to tell her is because you don't want her to learn it throught Kyubey or other magical girls without you there to alleviate the blow; she could also help you prevent this ever happening to Mami, and you want to trust her not to be te one that does something that'll hurt her that much.
    --[X] But you also fear her obssesing over it and allienating Madoka, Hitomi, Kyosuke and her parents without realizing it; no matter what, your first priority will be that your friends are happy and you don't want to throw a wrench at their friendship.
    -[X] Homura also fears that she may do something that makes Madoka want to become a magical girl, she cares about her, and about all of you even if she doesn't know how to show it, for reasons you can't tell her.
    [X] Answer Sayaka:
    -[x] It's not going to kill her or drive her insane. She's arguably a near-optimal case for learning about it under the circumstances; with us to support her, we believe she would survive it.
    --[x] But survival isn't what she's asking about, is it?
    --[x] We... think she'd be better off. In the end, when everything is said and done. But we also think that it'll make the world feel much darker. We don't know exactly how she would react. That scares us.
    --[x] We would do our level best to help her come to terms with it.
    --[x] We just need her to understand that she would not be the only one hurt if this doesn't stay a secret.
    ---[X] She touched on it earlier with not being able to talk to her friends: Needing to keep it secret is how we think it could hurt her in particular. That's what she should be weighing.
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Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Jun 13, 2018 at 9:50 PM, finished with 139350 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] I know you can handle it, and that some things will make a lot more sense for you. But I also think that it'll make the world feel much darker.
    [X] "Honestly Sayaka, I don't know how you react to this, and that's scary for me. On your own, knowing this would weigh you down, and I'm not sure if you could hold on.
    [X] "I believe that you can survive this, especially if you promise to talk with Homura and myself about how you are doing. I just need you to understand that you would not be the only one hurt if this doesn't stay a secret."
    [X] During the Fight
    - [X] See how much Sayaka has improved against familiars.
    - [X] Provide some assistance against the witch, but don't leave Sayaks feeling useless with nothing to do
    - [X] Keep enough active grief on hand to prevent traumatic witch injury AND Sayaka going berserk against what she might learn is a fallen meguca
    [X] It's not going to kill her or drive her insane. She's arguably a near-optimal case for learning about it under the circumstances.
    -[X] Full disclosure, though, to our knowledge 90% of whatever benefits are available from knowing it are also available from knowing that it exists but not actually knowing it -- if she's willing to put that level of trust in us, anyway.
    --[X] And in truth, our overriding concern is Mitakihara Group's cohesion. As long as this group is intact and well our chances of fixing literally everything are extant. We're already the most powerful concentration of force on the planet, and two of us have been meguca for less than a month. Where will we be if we're all still alive in a few years? A decade? Mami has only been a meguca for two years. You strongly prefer to act altruistically as much as possible, but the absolute fact of the matter is that as long as Mitakihara Group is alive and trusts each other, you expect that in the long term there is very little else that will matter.
    ---[X] Ignoring the fact that you genuinely care about all of them, protecting that has to be your first priority as a matter of morality, whatever it takes, even when you're not sure of the best way to do it. Homura is concerned that telling Sayaka about "it" will wind up dragging Madoka into this, which would be bad on a number of levels. You're concerned that not making the offer would be not only wrong but a violation of trust that could be used as a lever.
    ----[X] At the end of the day, though, if she's willing to trust you as much as she has simply by letting you unload on her like this... There's only one thing worth remembering, in the end: Kyubey is humanity's enemy, full-stop. He -- it -- is more intelligent than any of us, and would emotionlessly preside over our total destruction for its benefit.
    [X] I think probably could handle it. Or at least you could with some help. With me around the grief spiral isn't as much of an issue as it would be for others. Even still, this is the kind of secret that can completely change your worldview, the kind that can make you a different person. If it turns out that you can't handle it, well... With me around you probably won't outright die, but you may very well live long enough to go crazy.
    -[X] But that's only half of the issue. The other part of it is whether or not you can handle the burden of secrecy that will be on your shoulders. I don't mean any offense, but you are a little impulsive, and most others definitely won't be able to handle it.
    --[X] Anyway, food for thought.
    [x] You know she'll survive it, because you know her and you'll be there to support her.
    [x] But survival isn't what she's asking about, is it?
    [x] You... think she'd be better off. In the end, when everything is said and done.
    -[x] You don't want to bias her, but there's a thing to be fixed here.
    [X] If I didn't think you could handle it, I would never have given you the choice in the first place.
    [X] Answer Sayaka:
    -[X] You believe she can handle it. Not alone. But her current circumstances? Just damn about optimal.
    -[X] If she can trust you, you'll do your best to help her come to terms with it.
    [X] Vote in abeyance.
    -[X] Hang back, let Sayaka strut her stuff
    -[X] Comment she should copy your Chibies some time, so she could compare them to her own clones.
    -[X] Afterwards, give Sayaka Kyouko's payment for today.
    [X] I know you can handle it, and that some things will make a lot more sense for you. But I also think that it'll make the world feel much darker.
    -[X] Sayaka touched on it earlier with not being able to talk to her friends: Needing to keep it secret is how you think it could hurt her in particular. That's what she should be weighing.
    [X] During the Fight
    - [X] Fight equally with her
    [X] Answer Sayaka:
    -[x] It's not going to kill her or drive her insane. She's arguably a near-optimal case for learning about it under the circumstances; with us to support her, we believe she would survive it.
    --[x] But survival isn't what she's asking about, is it?
    --[x] We... think she'd be better off. In the end, when everything is said and done. But we also think that it'll make the world feel much darker. We don't know exactly how she would react. That scares us.
    --[x] We would do our level best to help her come to terms with it.
    --[x] We just need her to understand that she would not be the only one hurt if this doesn't stay a secret.
    ---[X] She touched on it earlier with not being able to talk to her friends: Needing to keep it secret is how we think it could hurt her in particular. That's what she should be weighing.
    [x] Vote in abeyance. Add:
    -[X] During the Fight:
    - [X] See how much Sayaka has improved against familiars.
    --[X] Provide some assistance against the witch, but don't leave Sayaka feeling useless with nothing to do
    [x] This will change how she sees her own existence, and that of magical girls, for the worst; but yes, you think she can handle knowing the truth, whether she thinks she'll be able to keep the secret without letting it take control of her life and interfere with her, Madoka and Hitomi's friendship is up to her to decide; but she must know, you're working in fixing the issue, and while she could also help, and it would be appreciated, you're pretty sure you can do it on your own, so she must not worry about it if she decides not knowing.
    -[X] The reason you wanted to tell her is because you don't want her to learn it throught Kyubey or other magical girls without you there to alleviate the blow; she could also help you prevent this ever happening to Mami, and you want to trust her not to be te one that does something that'll hurt her that much.
    --[X] But you also fear her obssesing over it and allienating Madoka, Hitomi, Kyosuke and her parents without realizing it; no matter what, your first priority will be that your friends are happy and you don't want to throw a wrench at their friendship.
    -[X] Homura also fears that she may do something that makes Madoka want to become a magical girl, she cares about her, and about all of you even if she doesn't know how to show it, for reasons you can't tell her.
    [X] Answer Sayaka:
    -[x] It's not going to kill her or drive her insane. She's arguably a near-optimal case for learning about it under the circumstances; with us to support her, we believe she would survive it.
    --[x] But survival isn't what she's asking about, is it?
    --[x] We... think she'd be better off. In the end, when everything is said and done. But we also think that it'll make the world feel much darker. We don't know exactly how she would react. That scares us.
    --[x] We would do our level best to help her come to terms with it.
    --[x] We just need her to understand that she would not be the only one hurt if this doesn't stay a secret.
    ---[X] She touched on it earlier with not being able to talk to her friends: Needing to keep it secret is how we think it could hurt her in particular. That's what she should be weighing.
    [X] Answer Sayaka:
    -[X] You believe she can handle it. Not alone. But her current circumstances? Just about optimal.
    -[X] If she can trust you, you'll do your best to help her come to terms with it.
    [X] During the Fight
    -[X] Hang back, let Sayaka strut her stuff
    [X] Bandwagon
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