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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Unfortunately, I think that we do have to poke the hornet's nest right now. I don't know if we can do anything otherwise, not without making our job harder down the line.
 
Then the question is: How do we come to an agreement or compromise on how best to approach the issue? What are we willing to start addressing; what are we not?
 
I'm sorry if someone pointed it out already, but what the heck.

Anyway, there is one clear disadvantage Homura has that we don't: she doesn't trust people.

Let me elaborate: we extend trust to Mami, Sayaka and Homura like there's no fucking tomorrow, but we do so, because we know them, their strengths and weaknesses. We don't thoughtlessly entrust us to them, because we don't want to bear responsibility for some of our actions, but we trust them to be the best versions of themselves.

We need to reassure Homu that her extending trust in us is a good decision, not because Madokami said so, but because of what kind of person Sabrina is. That means acknowledging our weaknesses and covering for them, like a friend would do, and we'd do the same for Homura, but also trusting us to do what we do best and be ready to support us, just like we would do.
And then extending the same trust to other girls.
Yes, even Seykuu.

[Q] Now, about your hair...

Argblaglah need to sleep, best of luck to everyone with the votecrafting, hope I contributed somehow.
 
[X] Vebyast

I like where you're going. Proxying because I need to be productive now.

(Yes, I know you haven't voted yet. That still doesn't stop me from proxying.)
 
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I don't think we can avoid talking about Madoka's wish. It's clearly relevant and no doubt something Homura spent a lot of time thinking about in relation to Sabrina. It's her idea to begin with. Yes, it has unpleasant implications for this particular conversation - that, in the end, Homura failed and Madoka was forced to save herself. But trying to ignore it will make it impossible for us to make any progress, I feel.

The crux of the matter is that this is a collaborative effort - Sabrina, the Madoka of the previous loop, all of our friends, and finally Homura herself with her experience of a hundred loops, are all necessary to fix everything. Homura will resist this idea, as it goes against the mantra of self-sufficiency that she adopted as her core belief. This is fine. We can't solve her self-esteem issues in a single conversation. But we do need to put this idea firmly in front of her, while emphasizing that we desperately need her help still.

On a related note, I think Homura subconsciously denies agency to anyone not aware of the loops. Since things are going better this time, she reasons that it must be Sabrina who is responsible. Maybe part of pointing out how this world appears to be adjusted as to be fixable, should be gently admonishing her for reducing the people involved, our friends, to props on the stage of life. This, after all, more than anything else, is the cause of her failures.
 
Hell with it, I like what Veb's saying. (Well, typing. Unless he's using a speech to text device. Whatever.) Count me in.

[X] Vebyast


Also, no matter what vote wins, nothing will be the same for Homura. We've been steadily tearing down and rebuilding her worldview to something healthier, and here, it's come to head.
 
Shadowhisker said:
(Well, typing. Unless he's using a speech to text device. Whatever.)
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He's using hand writing recognition software so that he can write, rather than type or speak. :V
[X] Vebyast
Adhoc vote count started by Script Mak3r on Apr 11, 2018 at 7:15 PM, finished with 136110 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] Vebyast
    [X] Well, to be fair, I have a huge bargaining chip that you never had: free, unlimited cleansing, as well as a massively powerful ally. That sways people, and convinces them that you're worth fighting for in a way that no amount of Grief Seeds ever would.
    [X] "You never really had an opportunity to learn charisma and persuasion skills. And while you've had a lot of time to learn since your Wish, you've also been constantly subjected to immense emotional trauma, with no one who could help you deal with it. That makes charisma and persuasion far more difficult. You've been fighting against a massive handicap all along, with no one to help you and no way to figure out what to do about it. I'd say you've done remarkably well, under the circumstances."
    [X] "Do you have any idea how hard it is to start all over and try again, after losing everything? Most people struggle to do that kind of thing once. You've done it dozens of times, without anyone to even talk to, ever since you were--what? 13? The fact that you haven't given up is, by itself, utterly remarkable. Don't sell yourself short. Everyone needs a helping hand, myself included. I'd never have gotten this far without you, for instance. Sayaka would be dead. Oriko would be at large. Kyubey would probably know everything. And more."
    [X] "You're fucking amazing, Homura, and we've only gotten this far because we've done it together. Also, remember how I came about because of Madoka's Wish? Well, the only reason she ever had a chance to even make that Wish is because of all of your efforts."
    [X] We have a couple of notable advantages.
    -[X] It helps that we can be in two places at once. If she remembers the night where Sayaka ran into Kyouko, that scared the crap out of you when Sayaka left. You would have sent her after Sayaka if you hadn't heard back from blue within the hour.
    -[X] But even ignoring that... Her looks and bearing, and your sheer stupid power, get both of you a lot of respect as long as you're not the bad guys. When was the last time Mami took on a senpai role towards her? Sayaka looks up to her -- not entirely, but it's there. Things are different from the last time she tried a loop like this, because she's different. And because of it, people are willing to actually listen to her once they count her as their friend. People are willing to let her intervene when she needs to.
    [X] And that's really the biggest thing we have going for us personally. Because we share her ability to provide for the team, her ability to command respect -- but the crucial difference is that we haven't been hurt so damn many times that we can't think to reach out to the people around us.
    [X] "Most people don't pop out of nowhere with a good idea as to how to fix the problems of a bunch of other people they never met but remember really well. I can't say for certain how I'm here, but we both probably have a good guess. If a wish is powerful... What about a wish that helps other wishes? "
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[χ] the whole general consensus of the thread like right now
-[Q] someone make a collage of screenshots of these convs and use it as a vote
 
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Onmur, you have no idea how tempting that is for a serious answer.

... it's been a long day.
 
Shitpost harder with 1-pt font in the least visible shade of purple we can find?
 
Redshirt Army said:
Why settle for that when the [color = transparent] tag exists?
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[] We, the people of Sufficient Velocity, in order to form a more perfect timeline, establish justice, ensure multiversal tranquility, provide for the common defense against Walpurgisnacht, promote the general welfare of meguca, and secure the blessings of Madokami to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Sabrina Vee of Puella Magi Adfligo Systema.
 
[] Instachannel slight self depreciation.
-[] "For me?"
-[] Comment on your failures.

[] Back to your regularly scheduled hopeful, supportive Sabrina.
-[] You've been calling the shots. Your only real accomplishment is helping everyone work together.
-[] It's when you can lean on your friends that you succeed.
-[Q] Literally lean on Homu.

Yes. That's the point of this votecrafting bit.
 
I think that we can't avoid touching on the conflict between Madoka's Request and Madoka's Wish. The only safe way to respond to Homura's question is to Praise Madokami. And we can't Praise Madokami without Homura being reminded that she thinks her task was to keep Madoka from Wishing.

We can't dance around the issue. Homura is too smart. Worse, she's been thinking about this, and for quite a while, judging by how it weighing on her. She asked us why her methods haven't worked and we're about to tell her that she wasn't having success because she was keeping Madoka from Wishing. Because she was keeping the promise she made to Madoka.

So what do we do?

I propose that we stand as far back as we can, take a big run-up, and hit the problem as squarely as possible with the biggest hammer we have: Madoka's Wish.

Have faith in Madoka.

That's the only thing that I can see that can get Homura through this. Homura has to believe that she can change. She has to believe that her sins can be forgiven. She has to believe in a better future for herself, otherwise she's just going to despair no matter what we do. Homura has to be happy, actually happy and satisfied, for this quest to have a Good End. But every time an update rolls around someone has some new and horrifying realization about how much Homura loathes herself, how her entire character arc started when Madoka treated her like a person for the first time in her life. There's only one thing that can do the job we need and that's Madoka.

In short, we need to convince Homura that Madoka's Wish gives her another chance. Absolves her of her sins and lets her make a new beginning. It's the only thing we can do. And with the way Homura's looking, we need to do it now. We need to introduce her to that hope as solidly as possible, without giving her time to develop a resistance to it and without leaving anything to, to give it as good a chance as we can to get a foothold where it can grow.

[x] Conversation goal: Attempt to help Homura believe in herself and her future by telling her to have faith in Madokami who has faith in her and Wished to fix everything.
-[x] The conflict between the promise she made to Madoka and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
-[x] Homura not liking herself.

So how to do this?

We use all of the evidence we have to build up Madoka's Wish. Homura needs the strongest anchor we can give her.

[x] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
[x] Lay out all your evidence. Kirika's antimagic for Oriko, Nagisa, Anri, timings, Sayaka's behavior.

We make our first point.

[x] Madoka's Wish is still helping.

We bring it back around to Homura.

[x] You know how much that must hurt Homura. But that's not the end of the story, because Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that includes Homura's story.
-[x] You know that Homura can only be happy if Madoka is safe and Homura is the one protecting her, and you know that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy.

We drive it in with more evidence.

[x] You do mean that you know. Your metaknowledge focuses on some people. The two people it focuses on the most are Madoka and Homura. Madoka cares about Homura, and you're almost certain she Wished thinking of Homura.

We make it explicit. Go ahead and throw in some religious imagery, since Homura grew up on that shit.

[x] Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that means Homura can be saved.

And then we show Homura how to do it.

[x] Silently pray to Madokami. She Wished to save Homura, but there's no way unless Homura can accept Her help, so there has to be something like this. Please let this work.

[x] You don't believe that Madoka was tricked into that Wish. You think that she knew enough about Homura to know what she was doing.
-[x] Homura's last loop diverges from your metaknowledge, but you know what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, and she wouldn't have made that one without a good reason.
-[x] And she decided to Wish that Homura could protect her and find happiness, among other things, and entrusted you and Homura with the future. You will see her will done.


300-some words, but I cleared it with Firn. Discard wordcount, acquire clarity and tone, and this vote needs those.
 
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Vebyast said:
telling her to have faith in Madokami
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So I'm still trying to cite for a related point, but for now, my one big concern about your vote, if we're getting into all this: Are we absolutely sure we want to be approaching this from this "so Madoka is literally god, who I pray to, and here's why" angle? I don't know, it concerns me. Assuming we do, though- can we have a slightly better segue from the end of the last update?

Because I feel like "and suddenly Madoka was religion" doesn't flow particularly naturally from

Firnagzen said:
"We have allies," Homura whispers with a convulsive swallow. "It's early, but we have allies. They know about Walpurgisnacht."

"Yeah," you say, grinning at Homura.

"I've- this never worked," she whispers, and there's stark, raw pain in her voice, her shoulders hunched against a blow she's endured over and over and over again. "It never worked before."

"I won't let Oriko interfere-"

"It doesn't have to be her," Homura whispers, shaking her head. "It- all this works. For you."
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Given that you're cleared to go over wordcount, a more explicit plan to handle leading into all this would feel a bit better, in my mind at least.
 
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