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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Redshirt Army said:
I'm concerned that since our understanding of the limits of Oriko's powers weren't part of our metaknowledge, and instead were something Oriko personally told us about, Homura won't be inclined to trust it.

(And she knows that it wasn't part of our metaknowledge, since we didn't volunteer it during the timestop hunt for Oriko.)
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It's backed up both by Kyubey and also our literally being able to see her soul melt and twist in ways we've never witnessed a Soul Gem do before.
 
I'm pretty sure Homura knows that it's possible you're a product of Madoka's wish. You even joked with her about it.
 
The point of it isn't to suggest the idea to her, it's to indicate to her that Sabrina thinks so to, and that she takes the idea of being Madoka's Wish Incarnate seriously. Considering how much hell Homura has gone through to try to honor Madoka's request, I think that Sabrina indicating that she's trying to do what Madoka would want would have some weight, even if just so Homura understands more clearly why it is that Sabrina does the things she does.
 
Firnagzen said:
Golden ribbon unspools from Mami's upraised hand, Homura grabbing hold of one end as the other wraps around Sayaka's wrist, another twist going around your waist even if you're hip-to-hip with her. Doesn't hurt to be sure, after all.
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Wait a second...

We have a Ribbon Bracelet on our left arm!

Hmmm... As far as I can find, there was just one time we entered timestop without Mami, and that was when we left Mami at the cafe with Nadia and went to chat with Homura outside.

This either confirms our Bracelet isn't 4th dimensionally connected to Mami at all times, in which case, good on Mami for not taking the easy opportunity for limpeting, or that Mami was pulled into timestop back then and totally did not mention it, so props to her for pulling one over us? :V

Firnagzen said:
Homura nods convulsively, and cranks her shield across. Colour drains from the world, the noise of the city sliced away instantly. Mami exhales slowly, arm tightening around you, and Sayaka shifts uncomfortably, staring around at the frozen world. It's only her... second experience of Homura's timestop, you think.
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Fourth, at least!

One when we rescued her from Elsa Maria, another when we metabombed her and Hitomi, and another one when Homu picked her up and took her to us so we could prepare to fly to Asunaro.
 
[X] Onmur

Don't really object to the content of Godwinson's vote, but it's too verbose for my tastes. I feel like less is more, in this case.
 
So I delved back into the Oriko side stories to check something, and of course I stumbled onto another piece of evidence that Oriko exists for the sole purpose of the world shitting all over her, that she deserves all the redemption, and that her family deserves to burn in hell.

(I went looking for mentions of Hisaomi's ocupation before polyticks: He was a lawyer.

So he went from evil to more evil? :V )

Anyway,



So, Hisaomi was a lawyer, got into politics, Oriko was very afraid her father would turn out like everbody-fucking-else in her family, Hisaomi comforted her, then years later turned out like everybody-fucking-else in their family.

So, Oriko deserves just about all the hugs ever.
 
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[X] Godwinson

Verbosity isn't a sin! It's cruel to say otherwise when thats naturally how some talk, and seems counter-productive (even if its unclear whether the difference would leak into update) when short highly focused snippets of argument set them off as manipulative and the "flip over the rules table, lay all the cards on the messy floor, rant while crying" seemed to work pretty well here. I liked seeing an argument where one side got most of a chance to actually finish and lay out all their position rather than trying to flail about with soundbites. (Even if Sayaka ruuuuudely interrupted once or twice. Don't our years of friendship mean giving us a chance to explain kohai :cry:)
 
Onmur said:
So I delved back into the Oriko side stories to check something, and of course I stumbled onto another piece of evidence that Oriko exists for the sole purpose of the world shitting all over her, that she deserves all the redemption, and that her family deserves to burn in hell.

(I went looking for mentions of Hisaomi's ocupation before polyticks: He was a lawyer.

So he went from evil to more evil? :V )

Anyway,



So, Hisaomi was a lawyer, got into politics, Oriko was very afraid her father would turn out like everbody-fucking-else in her family, Hisaomi comforted her, then years later turned out like everybody-fucking-else in their family.

So, Oriko deserves just about all the hugs ever.
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Sob stories don't excuse murder.
 
Yknow, I wonder... Maybe we should just do the Japanese thing as a response to Sayaka's inquiry towards Homura. Just... completely ignore it. Pretend it didn't exist. Throw around disapproving looks if it doesn't go away.

Oh, who am I kidding, that's too complicated. Also mean, but mostly complicated.
 
Kaizuki said:
Yknow, I wonder... Maybe we should just do the Japanese thing as a response to Sayaka's inquiry towards Homura. Just... completely ignore it. Pretend it didn't exist. Throw around disapproving looks if it doesn't go away.

Oh, who am I kidding, that's too complicated. Also mean, but mostly complicated.
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... So just:?

- [] Let Homura field that question
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Or are we expecting Homura to do something else? :p
 
GiftOfLove said:
Nope. I'm not sure where killing someone so they don't kill your friends falls, but since she hasn't done it yet I don't see a problem.
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This Homura literally admitted to murdering multiple Orikos and Kirikas.


If you're willing to cast doubt about killing someone to save a friend, the same doubt should go towards killing to save the world.

Oriko is clearly a villain protagonist in most of her stories, but the same could be same of Homura in Rebellion HOMURA DID NOTHING WRONG.
 
GiftOfLove said:
Nope. I'm not sure where killing someone so they don't kill your friends falls, but since she hasn't done it yet I don't see a problem.
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Firnagzen said:
You cock your head, reminded of something. "Speaking of which. Why isn't Oriko dead? I figured you'd kill her after... what she did."

"I did, for a while. But I noticed, a few loops later, that I didn't have to waste my time on it; she would simply never contract by herself. I'm not sure why she and Kirika contracted that once, but I just stopped bothering," Homura says. "It was-"

"-an anomaly," you finish. "And you've never seen her contract again?"

"Not until this loop," Homura confirms.

"Strange," you comment. Very strange indeed.
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If previous timelines don't count, then Oriko hasn't killed anyone either. If they do and killing someone because they might kill your friends is okay, where does killing someone because they might destroy the world fall?

Homura is as much a murderer as Oriko. We tolerate this because we understand her well enough to know how to set her on a path that doesn't lead to that. But we also know how to do that with Oriko. In both cases their "sob stories" are the furthest possible thing from irrelevant. Saying otherwise is just an excuse to dehumanize them.
 
Godwinson said:
[X] Cut in with Sayaka: It ties into some different, deeply personal things for Homura. I'm not saying not to ask her, or that she should or shouldn't answer, because that's not my place. I'm just saying it's connected to a lot of other, really heavy things for Homura, so that you know just how big of a question you're asking her. So that if she doesn't want to answer, you'll know why. Then pull back a moment so Homura can decide whether she wants to get into that, knowing that Sayaka shouldn't be offended if she declines to answer. (If she does, break vote here, because that'd be huge!)
-[X] Subtext: I have just been talking about really deep personal history knowledge for Oriko of all people, so my being protective of Homura on this subject ought to be quickly tied to that, to help reinforce that Sayaka's question is bigger than she thinks it is.
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I have to confess, I'm not quite sure that this part of the vote is the best idea. Sabrina can probably get away with letting Homura deflect on her own, or giving a quick "that's not my secret to tell", but making a big deal of it feels kind of like putting up a giant neon sign. That may actually be your intent here, though, going by the parentheses, but that feels like dodging the issue again. Homura wants answers / explanations, not a detour to explain her issues or power.

Also, it may cross the line from well-intentioned nudging to actively rejecting Homura's own preferences regarding information control. I'm pretty sure Sabrina has discussed with Homura about telling the others more regarding her power, and had the idea firmly rejected (3/31? pretty sure there was a second instance later). There may be room for a discussion later, on how much Sabrina should respect Homura's wishes there and how hard she should push to convince her, but I'd argue the time for that is very definitely not in the middle of another heavy conversation that's busy hammering on her trauma buttons.

A quick review of what Sayaka knows / could potentially think (with a preference for recent knowledge):
- Homura's magic involves stopping time.
- Sabrina also implied that Homura's base enchantment involves protection, which is borne out by her forcefield rock.
- A magical girl's Wish can be quite heavily tied to their powers (see: Sayaka, Sabrina, Oriko)
- Sabrina's been hammering pushing nudging Homura in Madoka's direction, in between scandalous amounts of handholding with Mami.
- Homura's really, really twitchy about Oriko and Kirika, despite the fact that Homura's not mentioning anything they actually did to her.
- Sayaka doesn't know the exact timeframe (Oriko contracted on the 28th), but there's not a lot of room on it. Homura transfers in on the 25th, and giant hat hunting happened on the 31st, immediately after her apartment got burned down. So when did the Kures have the chance to hurt Homura as badly as they did her?
- Yuki implied that Homura basically appeared out of thin air, as far as the magical girl gossip rings are concerned. Which is apparently very unusual, since magical girls in the same weight class as Mami or Sabrina tend to be notorious.
- Sabrina's made it very clear that she has detailed knowledge regarding the history of other magical girls.
- She's also implied that this includes might have beens, or things that haven't happened yet (Asunaro, I think).

This is about the time when Sherlock Holmes would make his grand reveal, in a detective story. Fortunately, Sherlock Holmes is a cheating cheater who cheats, and Sabrina probably doesn't have to worry about Sayaka putting it all together yet. (Though this brings up another ugly topic: what exactly happens when Sayaka finds a magical girl with the enhanced learning / mind powers she's looking for on one of Sabrina's befriending goodwill trips?)

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get at is that Sayaka already has a lot of the information she'd need to figure out that Homura's wish was time travel, and not just time stop. If Sayaka figures it out on her own, that's fine. It might even be healthy for Homura to have someone else in on that secret. But I feel like going and heavily implying that the answer to Sayaka's question is a big deal that's heavily tied into Homura's other problems would be breaking the trust that Homura has in Sabrina to keep her secrets.
 
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