Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Potato land
Do we really want to spread Clear Seeds so aggressively? Not so long ago, this thread was panicking about a stolen Clear Seed being equivalent to a nuclear weapon. And not without reason - it is a very powerful weapon if used as such.
The further we let them spread, the less we are capable of enforcing our terms and conditions, as well. If the Iowa Group comes to Japan (and are reasonably clever), they won't attack Mitakihara; instead, they'll steal Clear Seeds from whomever is least capable of protecting theirs, like that independent girl in Ishinomaki for example.
There's also the question of whether the Clear Seeds won't make everything worse at scale, but that's impossible to tell without asking Kyuubey some very uncomfortable questions.
The further we let them spread, the less we are capable of enforcing our terms and conditions, as well. If the Iowa Group comes to Japan (and are reasonably clever), they won't attack Mitakihara; instead, they'll steal Clear Seeds from whomever is least capable of protecting theirs, like that independent girl in Ishinomaki for example.
There's also the question of whether the Clear Seeds won't make everything worse at scale, but that's impossible to tell without asking Kyuubey some very uncomfortable questions.
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And the egg it laid may well have been just-barely-not-an-egg.
Depends whether you define an egg as "laid by a chicken" or as "hatches to make a chicken"
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If we *don't* spread clear seeds aggressively then girls turning into witches who might have otherwise been saved is on our heads.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
I don't see much to do here, tbh. Delegation works wonders.
[X] Defense pact.
-[X] Discuss proactive befriending with Yuki.
--[x] For her peace of mind, make it explicit that megucatarian aid or peacekeeping operations will not invoke the treaty.
--[x] Ask her if she'd mind sharing her address book with you. More allies is good, and you want to get out ahead of possible hostilities.
[X] Yuki's Nexus.
-[X] Homura's suggestion.
Obviously.
[] Ask Yuki for her impression of Rin and her group after they talk. Nothing confidential, we're just worried.
I think that we're better off not involving ourselves. What would we do here anyway? She's the expert, she's already volunteered to help, she can talk to Rin without Sakura getting in the way and will rapidly have more information about Rin herself than we do. Plus she's not limited to vote-size social interactions; it's entirely possible for her to sit there for six hours and engage with Rin. If we tried to do anything we'd just get in her way.
[x] Move on to transfer Airi and the antimagic enchantment
-[x] Before trying a teleport, check to make sure Sakura can handle the antimagic. Or just fly everyone yourself and sidestep the problem.
Safety first.
[X] Before you forget, ask Kirika to check the IRCs Nadia provided.
Before we forget.
[X] Rin and Sakura
-[x] Test for interest in muggle monemaking schemes. You have a contact whose eyes made dollar signs when she remembered the magical girl she knew in middle school. It might be something to do with their time if nothing else.
-[x] Thank them again before parting ways.
What kinds of downsides are there to making this kind of proposal? The wording could use some work, but I think the core concept at least won't hurt.
148 words.
On stolen clear seeds... I think that the benefits outweigh the cost. The cost is that we have to slap down the occasional girl that's misbehaving or totally insane. If we do our job right, we'll be steadily reinforcing the point that it's better to go along with us and threat of theft will steadily decrease.
[X] Defense pact.
-[X] Discuss proactive befriending with Yuki.
--[x] For her peace of mind, make it explicit that megucatarian aid or peacekeeping operations will not invoke the treaty.
--[x] Ask her if she'd mind sharing her address book with you. More allies is good, and you want to get out ahead of possible hostilities.
[X] Yuki's Nexus.
-[X] Homura's suggestion.
Obviously.
I think that we're better off not involving ourselves. What would we do here anyway? She's the expert, she's already volunteered to help, she can talk to Rin without Sakura getting in the way and will rapidly have more information about Rin herself than we do. Plus she's not limited to vote-size social interactions; it's entirely possible for her to sit there for six hours and engage with Rin. If we tried to do anything we'd just get in her way.
[x] Move on to transfer Airi and the antimagic enchantment
-[x] Before trying a teleport, check to make sure Sakura can handle the antimagic. Or just fly everyone yourself and sidestep the problem.
Safety first.
[X] Before you forget, ask Kirika to check the IRCs Nadia provided.
Before we forget.
[X] Rin and Sakura
-[x] Test for interest in muggle monemaking schemes. You have a contact whose eyes made dollar signs when she remembered the magical girl she knew in middle school. It might be something to do with their time if nothing else.
-[x] Thank them again before parting ways.
What kinds of downsides are there to making this kind of proposal? The wording could use some work, but I think the core concept at least won't hurt.
148 words.
I say we clobber the Iowa Group before they know we exist.
On stolen clear seeds... I think that the benefits outweigh the cost. The cost is that we have to slap down the occasional girl that's misbehaving or totally insane. If we do our job right, we'll be steadily reinforcing the point that it's better to go along with us and threat of theft will steadily decrease.
Last edited:
- Location
- Central Standard Time
[X] Vebyast
Sound good.
Sound good.
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Do we want to talk about Sayaka copying their powers as part of the pact?
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
The issue was more "Someone stole Clear Seeds from our friends" rather than "people using our Clear Seeds wrongly", though that was part of it.
The thing is, as Yuki rightly surmised, the value of stealing Clear Seeds actually goes down the more aggressively we circulate. There's pretty much no way to justify having more than one or two as it is for an entire group, and when you remove magic starvation, most of the impetus for Magical Girls to be predatory in this way more or less vanish.
Like, grudges, and normal human flaws are one thing, but we can't really do anything like that. You can't deprive adequate food, electricity, and medicine to a developing nation because they'll use it to go to war with their neighbor.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Ah, good catch!
[X] Defense pact
-[X] Discuss proactive befriending.
--[x] For her peace of mind, make it explicit that megucatarian aid or peacekeeping operations will not invoke the treaty.
--[x] Ask if she'd mind sharing her address book. More allies is good, and you want to get out ahead of possible hostilities.
[X] Yuki's Nexus
-[X] Homura's suggestion.
-[x] While that's happening, power copying?
[X] Move on to transfer Airi and the antimagic enchantment.
-[x] Before trying a teleport, check to make sure Sakura can handle the antimagic. Or you or Yuki can handle travel and sidestep the problem.
[X] Before you forget, ask Kirika to check the IRCs Nadia provided.
[X] Rin and Sakura
-[x] Test for interest in muggle monemaking schemes. You have a contact whose eyes made dollar signs when she remembered the meguca she knew in middle school. It might be something to do with their time if nothing else.
-[x] Thank them again before parting ways.
150 words exactly!
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Also once more clear seeds get out there the relative risk of any bad actor getting a clear seed will diminish as more magical girls with clear seeds of their own will be available to stop them.
mCooperative
meanderingCephalopod
- Location
- Back in Mitakihara after like 1000 years.
[x] Vebyast
Seems like a good plan to cover immediate concerns. Though, aside from the specific bits about Yuki's Nexus and Homura's suggestion, we're gonna have to plan some sit-down time for a good solid Walnutmart-fight planning session. With Yuki and approximately everyone else. We might dip into it now, but that doesn't feel like a talk anyone at the table is going to try and fit into the tight schedule as it is.
Reaching a bit past this meeting, what's the list of events on deck, anyway? O&K talk, soulguca's coming to town, Hitomi-parents to speak with, the Souju's, quality time with Homura, keeping a lookout for Iowa, reaching out to Tokyo again some time, checking in with Nagisa... everything on the day planner list and then some more... This is worse than scheduling in college, yeesh.
Definitely need more quality time with Homura- though I'm not sure when we'd want to try and place that, given that the Oriko and Kirika discussion is probably going to be first on the burner, and having emotions talk beforehand feels like using it to apply social pressure about the O&K thing, and it may be too awkward to have immediately afterward without some cooldown. Also not sure how much storytime she'd be willing to give us about past loops- though, given, the most memorable moment of non-share was really just the Kyousuke incident, and I guess she would be more willing to share tactically-relevant intel.
I feel like Kyouko, and thus Yuma, are still pretty peripheral to the central Mitakihara group for now, yeah. Their territory is still pretty separate- they're still pretty much doing their own thing independent of our party. Like, I feel like the rule of thumb for this quest seems to be, the core Mitakihara group is everyone whose actions and whereabouts we can be confidently knowledgable or informed about at any arbitrary hour without it being weird, who we can be reasonably sure would contact us within a minute of trouble, and who will generally coordinate with our schedule and keep us up to date with theirs.
At the moment, Kyouko would find us trying to keep that level of tabs on/social closeness with her and Yuma hella weird and probably a bit invasive, probably wants to handle everything short of shit-we're-about-to-die without our interference, and, again, has her own schedule that only really interacts with ours in the outside-contractor-training-Sayaka way.
Like, we're attached to her, and Homura and probably Oriko wouldn't find it weird to have her seated at the negotiations table in party with Mitakihara, but I feel like everyone else including Kyouko would be more than a little confused as to why we're even thinking she's so much ours.
What this means is that we clearly need to find more time to advance the agenda of Kyouko-napping, possible KyouSaya-shipping, and repairing the Mami-Kyouko relationship.
... I have officially typed "Kyouko" enough today that it doesn't even look like a word/name anymore.
So this was like a week ago and I totally forgot I'd put it in my multiquote queue until I started trying to compose this post, but this is a serious question we'll need to address at some point, preferably sooner rather than later, at least so the thread has a general consensus in mind. Because every in-game day that passes has us putting claws in more and more pies, even without the near-term influx of meguca directed here by Nadia. And not everyone will be acting in good faith, to say nothing of our actual probable enemies. And our more literal future not-empire. So, uh, yeah, thanks for bringing this up, we should probably deal with it some time soon.
The problem is, as @blast flame says, we can't just let people Witch out, and we are trying to stop the whole survival-mode-crisis thing going on so meguca can cooperate better. We did address earlier, at least a little, the fact that when we give our Clear Seeds, we need to make peace with the fact they will, for example, be monetized. The main thing that we must enforce is the whole "don't be a jerkface who makes people's lives miserable and/or gets them killed/kills them" thing. And I think that's what the whole "going after the first Clear Seed theft fast and hard" thing was partially in aid of- we wouldn't be able to handle it if everyone who could be a dick and steal Clear Seeds did so, but as long as none of them want to chance being the one or two groups we could handle if they broke our terms of use, significantly less of them will probably actually do so. And those, we can hopefully hit hard and fast enough to reinforce that impression. As we spread Clear Seeds, other groups besides us will also be able to step up and go "okay no I'd rather you not come and murderface/harass our neighbors"- I suspect there are plenty of powerful meguca whose main limitation is high grief expenditure, and who would take as aggressively dim a view of Iowa-like groups getting anywhere near them as we do.
Also, as much as we're Really Very Concerned about Iowa right now, honestly, I would find it not intensely surprising if Iowa or another notorious group like them was actually just being aggressively terrorizing for about the same reason Sendai was being moderately terrorizing, and was perfectly happy to hang up the raiding+looting pirateguca hat in favor of something that doesn't kill innocent meguca. (Or possibly just deciding that now it's more productive to take up the venerable art of Yakuza/Mafia/Drug Cartel raiding and warfare instead.)
Okay this post is longer than some short stories by now, and I think a whole page worth of thread has gone by since I started it, and my vote has changed three times, holy shit. And people have made some of my points while I was writing them... alas.
... posting this and then running off to do homework.
Seems like a good plan to cover immediate concerns. Though, aside from the specific bits about Yuki's Nexus and Homura's suggestion, we're gonna have to plan some sit-down time for a good solid Walnutmart-fight planning session. With Yuki and approximately everyone else. We might dip into it now, but that doesn't feel like a talk anyone at the table is going to try and fit into the tight schedule as it is.
Reaching a bit past this meeting, what's the list of events on deck, anyway? O&K talk, soulguca's coming to town, Hitomi-parents to speak with, the Souju's, quality time with Homura, keeping a lookout for Iowa, reaching out to Tokyo again some time, checking in with Nagisa... everything on the day planner list and then some more... This is worse than scheduling in college, yeesh.
Definitely need more quality time with Homura- though I'm not sure when we'd want to try and place that, given that the Oriko and Kirika discussion is probably going to be first on the burner, and having emotions talk beforehand feels like using it to apply social pressure about the O&K thing, and it may be too awkward to have immediately afterward without some cooldown. Also not sure how much storytime she'd be willing to give us about past loops- though, given, the most memorable moment of non-share was really just the Kyousuke incident, and I guess she would be more willing to share tactically-relevant intel.
I feel like Kyouko, and thus Yuma, are still pretty peripheral to the central Mitakihara group for now, yeah. Their territory is still pretty separate- they're still pretty much doing their own thing independent of our party. Like, I feel like the rule of thumb for this quest seems to be, the core Mitakihara group is everyone whose actions and whereabouts we can be confidently knowledgable or informed about at any arbitrary hour without it being weird, who we can be reasonably sure would contact us within a minute of trouble, and who will generally coordinate with our schedule and keep us up to date with theirs.
At the moment, Kyouko would find us trying to keep that level of tabs on/social closeness with her and Yuma hella weird and probably a bit invasive, probably wants to handle everything short of shit-we're-about-to-die without our interference, and, again, has her own schedule that only really interacts with ours in the outside-contractor-training-Sayaka way.
Like, we're attached to her, and Homura and probably Oriko wouldn't find it weird to have her seated at the negotiations table in party with Mitakihara, but I feel like everyone else including Kyouko would be more than a little confused as to why we're even thinking she's so much ours.
What this means is that we clearly need to find more time to advance the agenda of Kyouko-napping, possible KyouSaya-shipping, and repairing the Mami-Kyouko relationship.
... I have officially typed "Kyouko" enough today that it doesn't even look like a word/name anymore.
So this was like a week ago and I totally forgot I'd put it in my multiquote queue until I started trying to compose this post, but this is a serious question we'll need to address at some point, preferably sooner rather than later, at least so the thread has a general consensus in mind. Because every in-game day that passes has us putting claws in more and more pies, even without the near-term influx of meguca directed here by Nadia. And not everyone will be acting in good faith, to say nothing of our actual probable enemies. And our more literal future not-empire. So, uh, yeah, thanks for bringing this up, we should probably deal with it some time soon.
The problem is, as @blast flame says, we can't just let people Witch out, and we are trying to stop the whole survival-mode-crisis thing going on so meguca can cooperate better. We did address earlier, at least a little, the fact that when we give our Clear Seeds, we need to make peace with the fact they will, for example, be monetized. The main thing that we must enforce is the whole "don't be a jerkface who makes people's lives miserable and/or gets them killed/kills them" thing. And I think that's what the whole "going after the first Clear Seed theft fast and hard" thing was partially in aid of- we wouldn't be able to handle it if everyone who could be a dick and steal Clear Seeds did so, but as long as none of them want to chance being the one or two groups we could handle if they broke our terms of use, significantly less of them will probably actually do so. And those, we can hopefully hit hard and fast enough to reinforce that impression. As we spread Clear Seeds, other groups besides us will also be able to step up and go "okay no I'd rather you not come and murderface/harass our neighbors"- I suspect there are plenty of powerful meguca whose main limitation is high grief expenditure, and who would take as aggressively dim a view of Iowa-like groups getting anywhere near them as we do.
Also, as much as we're Really Very Concerned about Iowa right now, honestly, I would find it not intensely surprising if Iowa or another notorious group like them was actually just being aggressively terrorizing for about the same reason Sendai was being moderately terrorizing, and was perfectly happy to hang up the raiding+looting pirateguca hat in favor of something that doesn't kill innocent meguca. (Or possibly just deciding that now it's more productive to take up the venerable art of Yakuza/Mafia/Drug Cartel raiding and warfare instead.)
Okay this post is longer than some short stories by now, and I think a whole page worth of thread has gone by since I started it, and my vote has changed three times, holy shit. And people have made some of my points while I was writing them... alas.
... posting this and then running off to do homework.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Actually, I forgot another thing.
[X] Defense pact
-[X] Discuss proactive befriending.
--[x] For her peace of mind, explicitly state that megucatarian aid or peacekeeping operations will not invoke the treaty.
--[x] Ask if she'd mind sharing her address book. More allies is good, and you want to preempt possible hostilities.
[X] Yuki's Nexus
-[X] Homura's suggestion.
-[x] While that's happening, power copying?
[X] Move on to transfer Airi and the antimagic enchantment.
-[x] Before teleporting, check to make sure Sakura can handle the antimagic. Or you or Yuki can handle travel and sidestep the problem.
[X] Before you forget, ask Kirika to check the IRCs Nadia provided.
[X] Rin and Sakura
-[x] Test for interest in muggle monemaking schemes. You have a contact whose eyes made dollar signs when she remembered the meguca she knew in middle school. It might be something to do with their time if nothing else.
-[x] Thank them again before parting ways.
[x] Thank Yuki for helping Rin.
Still exactly 150 words!
[X] Defense pact
-[X] Discuss proactive befriending.
--[x] For her peace of mind, explicitly state that megucatarian aid or peacekeeping operations will not invoke the treaty.
--[x] Ask if she'd mind sharing her address book. More allies is good, and you want to preempt possible hostilities.
[X] Yuki's Nexus
-[X] Homura's suggestion.
-[x] While that's happening, power copying?
[X] Move on to transfer Airi and the antimagic enchantment.
-[x] Before teleporting, check to make sure Sakura can handle the antimagic. Or you or Yuki can handle travel and sidestep the problem.
[X] Before you forget, ask Kirika to check the IRCs Nadia provided.
[X] Rin and Sakura
-[x] Test for interest in muggle monemaking schemes. You have a contact whose eyes made dollar signs when she remembered the meguca she knew in middle school. It might be something to do with their time if nothing else.
-[x] Thank them again before parting ways.
[x] Thank Yuki for helping Rin.
Still exactly 150 words!
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[x] Vebyast
Looks fine for now.
Looks fine for now.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
[x] Vebyast
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
...I forgot to actually sign the treaty.
Wheeeeee, vote edit spam.
[X] Defense pact
-[X] Discuss proactive befriending.
--[x] For her peace of mind, explicitly state that megucatarian aid and peacekeeping operations will not invoke the treaty.
--[x] Ask if she'd mind sharing her address book. More allies, more clear seeds distributed, and you'd prefer to preemptively talk down conflicts.
-[x] If no problems, sign the treaty.
[X] Yuki's Nexus
-[X] Homura's suggestion.
-[x] Nudge Sayaka: Power copying?
[X] Move on to transfer Airi and the antimagic enchantment.
-[x] Before teleporting, check to make sure Sakura can handle the antimagic. Or you or Yuki can handle travel and sidestep the problem.
[X] Before you forget, ask Kirika to check the IRCs Nadia provided.
[X] Rin and Sakura
-[x] Test for interest in muggle monemaking schemes. Mention that you have a contact with Ideas. It's something for them to do with their time, if nothing else.
-[x] Thank them again before parting ways.
[x] Thank Yuki for helping Rin.
Wheeeeee, vote edit spam.
[X] Defense pact
-[X] Discuss proactive befriending.
--[x] For her peace of mind, explicitly state that megucatarian aid and peacekeeping operations will not invoke the treaty.
--[x] Ask if she'd mind sharing her address book. More allies, more clear seeds distributed, and you'd prefer to preemptively talk down conflicts.
-[x] If no problems, sign the treaty.
[X] Yuki's Nexus
-[X] Homura's suggestion.
-[x] Nudge Sayaka: Power copying?
[X] Move on to transfer Airi and the antimagic enchantment.
-[x] Before teleporting, check to make sure Sakura can handle the antimagic. Or you or Yuki can handle travel and sidestep the problem.
[X] Before you forget, ask Kirika to check the IRCs Nadia provided.
[X] Rin and Sakura
-[x] Test for interest in muggle monemaking schemes. Mention that you have a contact with Ideas. It's something for them to do with their time, if nothing else.
-[x] Thank them again before parting ways.
[x] Thank Yuki for helping Rin.
I mean, what if she wants our activity to be covered, or at the very least doesn't mind it? I'm not pointing that out because I think it's some deal-breaking vote error, I'm saying that Yuki is entering in this agreement because she wants to be on our side, and the agreement her chosen method of formalizing that without the personal trust we have between other people on our side.
I mean, she basically tells us that we are going to be loud and interventionist and that she wants to get in on whatever results from that on the ground floor. I don't think we need to reassure her that oh we aren't going to cause you meguca-political problems because she's here because we are going to cause her meguca-political problems. She's even intervening on our behalf with what she saw as a developing problem (the Rin/Sendai thing).
I mean, she basically tells us that we are going to be loud and interventionist and that she wants to get in on whatever results from that on the ground floor. I don't think we need to reassure her that oh we aren't going to cause you meguca-political problems because she's here because we are going to cause her meguca-political problems. She's even intervening on our behalf with what she saw as a developing problem (the Rin/Sendai thing).
Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
That's a good point, but I don't think that that needs to be a part of the defense pact itself. Sabrina and the rest of the Mitakihara group are performing some sort of aid or outreach near constantly, and it seems unnecessary to include a provision where they would have to help just as constantly. Not including that wouldn't preclude just asking them for help or cooperation as need arises, after all.
Well, my point is that reassuring her that she's not going to get dragged into our fights because someone comes after us because we stepped in their flowerbed is probably actually not relevant. She's okay with that, I think she wants to be able to help us out even if we make an enemy out there while being interventionist. Maybe especially if we make an enemy while being interventionist.
And defensive pacts don't cover offensive action by default, so that's like, not a thing.