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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Onmur said:
I wonder what would happen if we ever ask Sakura to explain, at length, without mincing words, all the things she dislikes about us?
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If you're considering her as a person with thoughts and feelings, not some scripted character in a dating sim you can pick the right options to make like you?

Probably something along the lines of, "Fuck you, Witch girl," because she's been pretty clear about wanting to have as little to do with Sabrina as possible and has done everything in her power not to engage with her. I find it doubtful that she'd suddenly be open to, "explaining, at length," anything to Sabrina, not without a major shift in her opinion towards her.

I believe the old adage, "actions speak louder than words," applies here. Sabrina's go to solution of talking at people and offering hugs clearly hasn't worked so far, but maybe actually doing something will. If people stop looking at Sakura as some obstacle to be overcome and turned to an ally/asset, maybe she won't think Sabrina is some manipulative bitch trying to take advantage of her.


Also hi, this is my first post in this thread in quite some time. I fell behind back during On a Rail and just finished binge-reading through to the current update.
 
I've been wondering whether it was worth pointing out, but:
Firnagzen said:
"I mean, you don't seem to like me very much," you say, spreading your arms. The wind tugs at your coat, pulling it taut against your side. "Part of it is my powers, I'm sure. And the other part... Look, I'm sorry for ruining the status quo. And I'm not going to moralise at you, so all I'm going to say is that I'm truly, genuinely sorry for what happened."

Sakura studies you for a second, and snorts. "Fuck you, you're not sorry. You don't know how to keep your hands to yourself."
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This is a pretty blatant show that what we feel sorry for is not what Sakura feels we should feel sorry for, I think.

We know Sakura values Rin, Akiko... though: The whole of the Sendai group sans Rin was quite devoted to Akiko, deciding to follow her even when in doubt.

We know the group has gone through some pretty shitty situations that have thrown their lives out of control, and seeing as Akiko became their leader, and quite an effective one at that... I'd say she was a source of strength and stability for the rest of the Sendai girls. The pillar that supported them.

So it's not farfetched to think that all of their emotional states might be deteriorating.

Specially since this is basically the second time this happens: First it was Kato who 'fell', the old Sendai team left in shambles and Akiko managing to pick up the (broken) pieces and put them back together... in not quite a healthy shape, but a working one.

Now it's Akiko who 'fell' and Rin who's trying to... take Akiko's place, not just as a leader, but as someone who 'should' be able to do the same Akiko's done, take over the twice broken group and give them purpose and structure.

Only this time the old leader is still there, making things more difficult. And the girls don't have a purpose, what with not needing to hunt, so there's nothing Rin can point at and say 'follow me over there!'.

In short, stuff's fucked.

Sasha said:
If you're considering her as a person with thoughts and feelings, not some scripted character in a dating sim you can pick the right options to make like you?

Probably something along the lines of, "Fuck you, Witch girl," because she's been pretty clear about wanting to have as little to do with Sabrina as possible and has done everything in her power not to engage with her. I find it doubtful that she'd suddenly be open to, "explaining, at length," anything to Sabrina, not without a major shift in her opinion towards her.

I believe the old adage, "actions speak louder than words," applies here. Sabrina's go to solution of talking at people and offering hugs clearly hasn't worked so far, but maybe actually doing something will. If people stop looking at Sakura as some obstacle to be overcome and turned to an ally/asset, maybe she won't think Sabrina is some manipulative bitch trying to take advantage of her.


Also hi, this is my first post in this thread in quite some time. I fell behind back during On a Rail and just finished binge-reading through to the current update.
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Well, I was imagining a bit more heated a talk than just asking; I somehow don't think it'd be too hard to get Sakura to swear up and down at Sabrina all the reasons she sucks. To some extent. Heh, we probably would want to use Oriko for this. :V

Welcome back.
 
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"Sorry I upset the status quo," isn't quite the same as, "Sorry I gave your friend a nervous breakdown that left her catatonic." There's more for Sakura to be upset with us about than just the Fall of the Sendai Empire.
 
The scale of the apology does not match the scale of the injury, you are saying? Seems I agree. Sakura has a grievance. It is a little crooked, but not invalid. This is complex.

I don't think we can focus on Sakura and Rin in the same conversation. Doing our best for Rin is the most appealing direction? I think it is certainly the most consistent. Sakura may complain more, but if we do help, she won't hate us more.

Another dimension to the Sendai group's troubles might be that "stress has been removed." If these girls had less than healthy bonds, the close knit appearance of the past may actually be a bunch of truces that were only close to friendship. With the absolute need to cooperate removed, they might be having more issues with selfish vs. altruistic behavior at home. But they cannot drift apart. And they cannot go back to mundane life. Nobody told them how to do this.

As stated before, the future of a group of Magical Girls without hunting is... blue sky. Most people don't come prepared to deal with big choices. Most Magical Girls had their actual freedoms reduced to below the mundane schoolgirls of their own age, despite gaining magic. Because the system makes them time-starved and prone to experience events they have no emotional capacity to process safely. More than other Japanese children, they live on rails.

The quick solution is personal development. Along the themes helpfully arbitrated by the White Death. Every girl had a literal Wish. It means more than just one change in reality, if she wants it to. The Wish leads to a pathway, letting her evaluate the life in front of her by a fixed standard. Much easier. Rin should get advice to think about this.
 
Less a matter of scale as that there was a more personal cost that our apology ignored.

I would fully expect Sakura to respond to "What would you have had me do?" with "Nothing." But "nothing" wasn't an option. The situation was unstable. Girls were suffering. People were going to die.
 
maybe with Sakura we could channel shonnen manga?... or Nanoha

[jk] Befriend Sakura

In the end Sakura hates Sabrina for what she did or rather what she caused to occur - Sabrina hurt her friends, we lich bombed Rin, made Akiko catatonic and then quite possibly from her PoV dropped it all on Rin.

Sabrina on the flip side will not apologize for what she did, or why. She can maybe apologize for how she left things but thats it. Also this issue is going to take more then a single talk to resolve. It's one reason I wanted to Sabrina to tell Sakura flat out what she is and is not sorry for then move on to offering to work on some sort of mutually beneficial business relationship. We force the main issue into the open then set up a framework that allows us to attempt reconciliation and rebuilding of trust over time - under the guise of a political and economic pact.

We're not just trying to be miss huggy happy whatever the fuck but also trying to advance our own interests while considering Sendai's interests to a degree. Sabrina would be find just making amends with Sakura but this way you give a reason for Sakura to rationalize working with us. If we just try to talk it out she might just stay mad at us since she won't have a reason to try to reconcile. We hurt her friends, she has no reason to think about letting that go thus we're on her shit list forever.

It's like forcing someone to take a moment or three right after something occurs - your giving them a chance to allow them to think beyond the mere emotional. In this case it's giving them a chance to reconcile when their principles are saying 'she hurt my friends!'.

If someone hurt Mami and we had no reason to make amends we likely would be quite hostile to them for quite awhile. Look at how Sayaka and Homura are with Oriko right now.

- Anouther long winded statement from a late night watch.
 
DB_Explorer said:
maybe with Sakura we could channel shonnen manga?... or Nanoha

[jk] Befriend Sakura

In the end Sakura hates Sabrina for what she did or rather what she caused to occur - Sabrina hurt her friends, we lich bombed Rin, made Akiko catatonic and then quite possibly from her PoV dropped it all on Rin.

Sabrina on the flip side will not apologize for what she did, or why. She can maybe apologize for how she left things but thats it. Also this issue is going to take more then a single talk to resolve. It's one reason I wanted to Sabrina to tell Sakura flat out what she is and is not sorry for then move on to offering to work on some sort of mutually beneficial business relationship. We force the main issue into the open then set up a framework that allows us to attempt reconciliation and rebuilding of trust over time - under the guise of a political and economic pact.

We're not just trying to be miss huggy happy whatever the fuck but also trying to advance our own interests while considering Sendai's interests to a degree. Sabrina would be find just making amends with Sakura but this way you give a reason for Sakura to rationalize working with us. If we just try to talk it out she might just stay mad at us since she won't have a reason to try to reconcile. We hurt her friends, she has no reason to think about letting that go thus we're on her shit list forever.

It's like forcing someone to take a moment or three right after something occurs - your giving them a chance to allow them to think beyond the mere emotional. In this case it's giving them a chance to reconcile when their principles are saying 'she hurt my friends!'.

If someone hurt Mami and we had no reason to make amends we likely would be quite hostile to them for quite awhile. Look at how Sayaka and Homura are with Oriko right now.

- Anouther long winded statement from a late night watch.
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I think attacking Sakura with a Love Pink Coloured Prima Luce would be counter-productive.

But on the subject of making pacts or alliances with the Sendai group, I'm drawing a blank on what that would be about. I mean, we already gave them a Clear Seed, and I doubt they want our counsel about what to do with their lives. >_>

What would the agreement between groups be about?
 
Onmur said:
I think attacking Sakura with a Love Pink Coloured Prima Luce would be counter-productive.

But on the subject of making pacts or alliances with the Sendai group, I'm drawing a blank on what that would be about. I mean, we already gave them a Clear Seed, and I doubt they want our counsel about what to do with their lives. >_>

What would the agreement between groups be about?
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I don't know exactly but the actual pact is only half the reason. The idea is to provide actions to words. We can say we're not trying to meddle so much now, or that we wished we handled that little war...better, but actually offering to create a pact and dialogue to allow a structure to relations is more concrete. I just want to make the offer since we are making a pact, and likely to offer something to UG.

Off the top of my head for the pact.
  • We explain the defense pact, and put that on the table
  • We could also, in light of how Rin helped mediate the meeting of the aforementioned pact and use of their abilities for transport, offer some agreement on how to continue this sort of relationship.
    • This could be an agreement on how we can hire their services for healing, set rates etc.
    • On the very simple end it could basically be a NAP or something meant to pre-empt any concerns that the new defensive pact could become an offensive alliance.
  • Nothing at all - we bring up the pact we are making, the offer we plan to make to UG and thus extend the offer to Rin and Sakura's group. We have ideas for what we could want, lets see what they wantm if anything, and work from there.
Tl;DR: I just want to make the offer as a gesture and see what they may want.

Edit: This is one of those votes where I feel we are doing *something* wrong with the social but I can't pinpoint it!
 
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DB_Explorer said:
Edit: This is one of those votes where I feel we are doing *something* wrong with the social but I can't pinpoint it!
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Yes, that's... basically the reason the votes' grown shorter and shorter this round.

Really, for right now... I guess we could handle Sakura's animosity to an extent by preemptively acknowldging a few things:

We could actually mention we know we're short on time, which could make Sakura less opposed to hear us out, since it's basically an implied promise we won't take long;

We could acknowledge that Sakura doesn't want to talk with us, and promise... something something that'll make it worth hearing us out?

Also how we keep pushing responsibilities onto Rin's shoulders? If we haven't?

Basically acknowledge everything Sakura could throw at our face, so as to let her know we're on the same page.

On the pact/alliance/agreement point, maybe we could bring up (at some point, maybe not now) the future problem of Witch hunting. Not ask the Sendai group to go on Witch hunts after supposedly being freed of those... but rather point out the potential of the Clear Seed and ask about developing new ways to deal with Witches, with much lessened risk?

We know meguca will start going crazy once they realize they have infinite magic, why not try to use that to try and give back this group a bit of purpose?
 
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The Narrator said:
I'm open to suggestions.
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issue is - I have no idea whats wrong D:

Just a feeling! Mind you less so with the short votes and more to do with... IDK the general trend of the conversation? This should be viewed as the start of any sort of reconciliation with the Sendai group as a whole rather then just Rin. IE we are not fixing Sakura's issues with us in one convo.

Onmur said:
Yes, that's... basically the reason the votes' grown shorter and shorter this round.

Really, for right now... I guess we could handle Sakura's animosity to an extent by preemptively acknowldging a few things:

We could actually mention we know we're short on time, which could make Sakura less opposed to hear us out, since it's basically an implied promise we won't take long;

We could acknowledge that Sakura doesn't want to talk with us, and promise... something something that'll make it worth hearing us out?

Also how we keep pushing responsibilities onto Rin's shoulders? If we haven't?

Basically acknowledge everything Sakura could throw at our face, so as to let her know we're on the same note.

On the pact/alliance/agreement point, maybe we could bring up (at some point, maybe not now) the future problem of Witch hunting. Not ask the Sendai group to go on Witch hunts after supposedly being freed of those... but rather point out the potential of the Clear Seed and ask about developing new ways to deal with Witches, with much lessened risk?

We know meguca will start going crazy once they realize they have infinite magic, why not try to use that to try and give back this group a bit of purpose?
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Maybe - I liked the general idea behind Sabrina going 'yes I unilaterally in your affairs, no I am not sorry I did that. I am sorry for driving one girl to be catatonic and to forcing Rin to learn the facts of life as well as making her shoulder all the fallout.'

I suspect this conversation is going to end up mainly being about something like the above - ie identifying and acknowledging our issues and Sakura's grievances with the tail end being any sort of offer or discussion of one.

I've been looking at it this way. We did not force Homura and Mami to become friends and allies. We found a common ground for them (witch hunting) that was facilitated trusting a third party (us) despite their issues with each other. Once that got going their mutual situations (Mami being Mami, Homura being moe) allowed the interactions to sustain themselves into the desired end state (Mami and Homura now friends)

Here we have our agenda (helping girls etc) at odds with Sakura's principles ( She hurt my friends, can I please throw her through a building?) that can only be changed by a building of trust through some separate mutually beneficial agreement (Defense pact, commission of retainer, tea time with Mami etc) that provides a justification to not act on her principles. Long term trend for the interactions likely hinge on helping the groups former leader and Sakura and the rest of the groups larger situation and disposition. I'm hoping for at least a cordial, is cold, working relationship.
 
Onmur said:
We know meguca will start going crazy once they realize they have infinite magic, why not try to use that to try and give back this group a bit of purpose?
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One of the problems here is that we don't yet know if lack of purpose is what's stressing Rin out.

We really need more information before we can figure out how to help, which is why I don't declare intent to definitely use any of the options listed: whether or not to deploy them is going to be a judgment call depending on how the situation develops. There's just no way for us to know enough to decide what to say before the conversation has even started.
 
DB_Explorer said:
Here we have our agenda (helping girls etc) at odds with Sakura's principles ( She hurt my friends, can I please throw her through a building?) that can only be changed by a building of trust through some separate mutually beneficial agreement (Defense pact, commission of retainer, tea time with Mami etc) that provides a justification to not act on her principles. Long term trend for the interactions likely hinge on helping the groups former leader and Sakura and the rest of the groups larger situation and disposition. I'm hoping for at least a cordial, is cold, working relationship.
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One think I think we left hanging is that we didn't actually see the problems between the Sendai group and every other group solved.

We beat them in a fight, which is different.

There were some gestures of things being better, thanks in part to Rin, but both groups still harbour hostility towards each other.

For all that Rin questioned whether what they were doing was right or wrong, the Sendai group didn't stop and cooperate because it was the right thing, but because they were forced into it.

It would be wonderful if we could, say, have periodical get togethers between gucas from every group, and have a chance to socialize, hang out with gucas in a civilized setting. We have to keep in mind many meguca, us included, have met many other gucas only in a battlefield, some only on opposed sides, which makes it harder for such gucas to see each other as people.

We obviously can't tell Rin and Sakura to go have tea and cakes with Chouko and Yuko tomorrow at four PM, but perhaps we could gather meguca groups to address problems such as the future of (better and improved!) Witch Hunting; reinserting gucas into normal society; using (infinite) magic to improve civilization; etc..

We do have legit reasons we want meguca to get together and cooperate, and maybe we should start not too long from now.
 
Onmur said:
One think I think we left hanging is that we didn't actually see the problems between the Sendai group and every other group solved.

We beat them in a fight, which is different.

There were some gestures of things being better, thanks in part to Rin, but both groups still harbour hostility towards each other.

For all that Rin questioned whether what they were doing was right or wrong, the Sendai group didn't stop and cooperate because it was the right thing, but because they were forced into it.

It would be wonderful if we could, say, have periodical get togethers between gucas from every group, and have a chance to socialize, hang out with gucas in a civilized setting. We have to keep in mind many meguca, us included, have met many other gucas only in a battlefield, some only on opposed sides, which makes it harder for such gucas to see each other as people.

We obviously can't tell Rin and Sakura to go have tea and cakes with Chouko and Yuko tomorrow at four PM, but perhaps we could gather meguca groups to address problems such as the future of (better and improved!) Witch Hunting; reinserting gucas into normal society; using (infinite) magic to improve civilization; etc..

We do have legit reasons we want meguca to get together and cooperate, and maybe we should start not too long from now.
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so your saying tea time with Mami IS a viable political agreement? : P

edit: also helping girls have normal lives and being able to talk to other magical girls without needing to fight over witches would likely help many with emotional resiliency and other issues in that category. No we don't have Meguca therapists but damn it we can at least have friends!
 
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DB_Explorer said:
so your saying tea time with Mami IS a viable political agreement? : P

edit: also helping girls have normal lives and being able to talk to other magical girls without needing to fight over witches would likely help many with emotional resiliency and other issues in that category. No we don't have Meguca therapists but damn it we can at least have friends!
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We should totally have accepted our Gensokyoan nature and forced every guca we beat to invite us to tea times.

Tea times make everything better.

Tea time with Mami makes everything much better.

(Also we totally would need Oriko's help with that scary shit called Social. :V )
 
Onmur said:
We should totally have accepted our Gensokyoan nature and forced every guca we beat to invite us to tea times.

Tea times make everything better.

Tea time with Mami makes everything much better.

(Also we totally would need Oriko's help with that scary shit called Social. :V )
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OK new long term goal - get local meguca to meet regularly, and get it so the meet up ends with a tea time hosted by Mami after the more political stuff. That way everyone can chill after all the political/social stressor BS.

Mitakarha Group: Wait so your meetings don't have tea time?
Tokyo Group:..... no?
Mitakahra Group: ... bleh how droll
 
DB_Explorer said:
OK new long term goal - get local meguca to meet regularly, and get it so the meet up ends with a tea time hosted by Mami after the more political stuff. That way everyone can chill after all the political/social stressor BS.

Mitakarha Group: Wait so your meetings don't have tea time?
Tokyo Group:..... no?
Mitakahra Group: ... bleh how droll
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Sabrina stands in front of a closed warehouse, facing a group of Magical Girls.

"I must say, I have seen your meetings," she says, "I have participated in your discussions, have partaked on your snacks... and I found it all to be mind-numbingly droll."

She's met with a collective, unimpressed frown... which fails to affect the foreign Magical Girl.

"Let me show you what a real meguca meeting is all about!"

Sabrina throws open the Grand Doors of Warehouse-kun!

The Toyko meguca gape.

"OH MY GOD THE DEBAUCHERY!" yells one of them.

A dozen different scenes happen in front of their eyes.

"Want more tea, Oriko?" asks Kirika while massaging down her Ojou's shoulder.

"No..." the Seer groans in pleasure as Kirika continues her ministrations, "just... a little lower... perfect."

Kirika smiles joyfully, her hands working magic on Oriko's shoulders and back.

On a corner of the warehouse, a collosal hugpile of Pleiades Saints spares a few hands to wave at Sabrina, who waves back.

Sitting at a table, Sakura Tachibana blushes as one Mori Rin, dressed in a smart dress and sporting a new pair of glasses, coyly interlinks their arms together, and they take turns whispering things to each other's ears while enjoying some tea and snacks.

A group of magical girls pass by, one Sayaka Miki caught in the middle of it, nervously trying to fend off the rest, who do their best to grab her, hold her, and in any way make contact with the flustered bleunette, all the while they yell questions about magical power combos.

Sayaka perks up as she spots Sabrina and throws her a pleading glance.

The white haired girl smiles and gives her kouhai a thumbs up.

'Traitor!' mouths Sayaka as she's carried away by the group.

The first Tokyoguca explodes.

"This is preposterous! This isn't how a meeting should go!"

"Yeah!" supports another red-faced one. "There's protocols, and regulations, and, and... stuff!"

"A pecking order!"

"Why are most of the seats occupied by those... are those chibi versions of you and-?"

"Who's even in charge of this!"

"And why is everyone hugging?!"

"Sabrina!"

A golden thunderbolt crashes into Sabrina's open arms, the girl spinning and laughing, to slowly come to a stop.

"Hi Mami," she greets the girl in her arms. Then she kisses her on the cheek.

A collective gasp runs through the Tokyo magical girls.

One of them faint.

"Comrades!" yells one of the Toyko meguca.

Another one interjects: "We're actually sworn enemies-"

"I say we turn our back on this... this lewdness and go back!" she yells. "To never return, and not fall prey to Sabrina's devilish hugging ways!"

"But... you're already inside," answers a random Toyko guca.

"What?"

The yeller blinks, suddenly realizing she was being held in someone's arms.

"She's so cute!" says Masami. "Hey Hiroko, can we keep her?"

"I don't know..." the black haired girl hums, leaning in to inspect the paralyzed meguca held in Masami's arms. "We're already taking care of Megane... Where is Megane, by the way?" she blinks.

"Uh?" Masami turns to look around, failing to spot said Kouhai. "Damn it, didn't we leave her at the sweets table?"

"I thought you left her at the kids' corner," answers Hiroko, looking at one part of the warehouse where Nagisa, Yuma, and a few other kids were playing with each other under Madoka's attentive gaze... under Homura's nervous, attentive gaze.

"Goddamn it, not again..." Masami grumbles and walks away with Hiroko, to look for their wayward charge.

The Tokyoan meguca is carried away by the distracted telekinetic.

"They just took one of us..." whispers out loud a meguca from the Tokyo group.

"There's free tea and cake for everyone," informs Sabrina.

"Cake?!"

"Free?!"

All but one Tokyoan meguca instantly rush into the warehouse, at least half the group immediately being physically assaulted by one or more hug-happy meguca.

Mami and Sabrina turn to the last remaining unconvinced meguca, who frowns at them, arms crossed.

"Clever," she admits, "to offer something most people couldn't resist... free things." She glares at the couple. "But you won't get me so easily, no," she shakes her head, "your immoral hugging ways threaten the very stability of megucadom, the order I have worked so hard to maintain-"

Sabrina snaps her fingers.

Everything turns dark.

Dark, except for a spotlight, shining down on an elevated dais at the center of the warehouse.

There stands Homura.

Those who knew her can spot her minute fidgeting, the nervousness oh so very slightly radiating off her frame.

For eveyone else, she stands aloof and stoic, physically and emotionally above them all.

Without further ado, Homura runs her hand through her long, luscious hair and flips.

A grand, collective gasp. The multitude is awestruck watching Homura's perfect, magnificient hair fly, a shine flowing through its strands as a-

Sabrina's eyes are blocked by Mami's hand.

"Thanks," she whispers, holding the blonde tighter.

A moment later, the lights come back -and some magical girls question how had the sun seemingly turned off, what with the doors and windows being open- and the last Toykoan magical girl is not with Sabrina and Mami anymore, but amidst a group of girls surrounding a very nervous, very helpless-looking Homura, who masterfully dodges any hand that might stray close to her magnificient mane of hair.

"Hmmm..." Mami hums, head resting on Sabrina's shoulder.

"Subsumption successful?" asks the taller girl.

Mami nods.

"I would say so..." the blonde shooks her head, "to think your master plan was to take over the world through the power of hugs..."

Sabrina shrugs, smiling with an eyebrow raised.

Mami chuckles softly, standing on tiptoes to lay a kiss on Sabrina's cheek.

"You'd make a terrible empress."

Sabrina hums, holding Mami closer as they, together, watch all the Magical Girls come to enjoy their time together.
 
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The thing here is that you guys already tried to sort hash it out with her earlier. And guess what? She wasn't having it and shut Sabrina down. She made it clear she didn't want to talk to her about it. And now we're going to ignore her wishes and go back to it again.

If you guys are doing this, you should at least fully apologize for the "original" offence. Traumatizing Rin and almost telefragging Sakura. I mean, that's definitely something to completely sorry and regretful for. By grabbing her soul gem, we put the three of them in a severe amount of danger. We're lucky Sakura successfully teleported whole instead getting bits of her scattered across the city. Not to mention lichbombing Rin in the worst possibly way. And the worst thing is that apparently things would have turned out fine if we hadn't interfered or pushed so much. So, we can't even say that it was necessary to save Masami and Hiroko's lives.
 
@Onmur - Debauchery? Without flower necklaces? I kid. Thanks much! Also-
"Why are most of the seats occupied by those... are those chibi versions of you and-?"
Just like in the manual. ::thumbsup::
 
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