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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Gore17 said:
Here's how I interpreted: there's no clever way for him to get around the seal, and Kakara would be able to, at will, change what, if anything, gets through. Whether it'd even be possible to use the power is more up in the air.
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Ah, I think I see the miscommunication. I don't think he's going to be able to do anything until Kakara opens up his seal to let power out - I agree that if we aren't doing anything with it, it's not dangerous. I'm saying that if we ever decided to let his power out, it's unknown how much control he could retain of said power or what he could do with it. As a bare minimum, I'd insist on us taking those Mind Delve lessons first, and I feel that given that this power has a possible drawback we'll probably just focus on sure things, in which we are figuratively drowning.

It's actually not a vote I feel all that strongly about now we know containment is perfect if we don't touch it, I just want people to vote based on understanding exactly what's on offer.

Bakkasama said:
Besides and more importantly... it saves us a socialise action to have him in our head. Unless you were planning to forget he exists and not spend time with him, having him in our head saves us the action we would spend doing so to reform him and we have seen already he is bad at manipulation, presumably because he has never been in a position in which it was relevant before.
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This is actually a very good point. I don't know if I'll change my vote over it, but unless we can decide to just carry Dazarel around with us whenever possible in the same way we decided to train Saiyan Masque whenever possible it's arguably more efficient.

Gore17 said:
Alternatively, take the action, get better results.
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I think if we're taking the action him having his own body is better/more effective, but we have such a strained action economy...
 
[X] Seal him in a less imposing physical body, with his powers sealed as well (somewhat harsh, renders him almost completely harmless while still giving him physical freedom. Implement chibi Dazarel).

Pet dragon sound fun, can you immagine him going "I'm gonna devor your souls" and one of the mistifs going "he is adorable, can I keep it Karen?" and another saying "he is just like my old cat if he could talk! I want it!" because seriously a pet minidragon seem like a pet mini-tiger and they make for great pets!
 
[X] Seal him in a less imposing physical body, with his powers sealed as well (somewhat harsh, renders him almost completely harmless while still giving him physical freedom. Implement chibi Dazarel).

[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).

Honestly? I'd be for either of these. But I'd rather Seal him in Dad's head.

Best. Christmas. Gift. Ever.

Or maybe Yammar's head, so they can discuss all the things they have in common.

And the dragon can feel real fear.

I vote we call his Seal the Genkai Dam, wherever it ends up being. Because it'll remind everyone of our ability to transcend physical limitations. And that they shouldn't mess with us.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Dandeer is absent -- you feel her flying off home in a ball of sullen resentment and frustration.

She still gave you ki for the Genki Dama, though, so haha, you win this round.
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You know since Kakara is basically showing herself as the next coming of Goku again, one has to wonder how badly Dandeer's resolve was affected by this latest fight and if she would eventually give

Gore17 said:
Now, see, that's a reason I can get behind. I still prefer Sealing him inside Kakara, but chibi dragon is the runner-up I want.
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Yeah if I had to choose a runner up I'd choose to seal him in Kakara since its not as cruel as sealing him in a object or as dangerous letting him keep his physical might.
 
Bakkasama said:
Actually, with Dazzarel in our head, even if we don't have his power it would mean that we are the only ones with access to his expertise and knowledge of the galaxy, which should be a great boon anyways. It would also mean that anyone who wants to try and learn something from him would have to ask us first, which is another safeguard against him being used against us.
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I'm betting his 'knowledge of the galaxy' is actually fairly limited. "That planet had enough warriors who were strong enough that I couldn't be sure to beat them all before they could really hurt me, so I never went there. I can tell you all about the dozen planets over that way, or at least how they were before I made them into rubble."

"Oh, and avoid the people with bright yellow skin. They don't actually taste like bananas. 3/10, would not recommend.
..
6/10 with rice."
 
fictionfan said:
[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).

Vote weighting means that it is in character.
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Vote weighting means it tempts the character; characters do not always act in accordance with their impulses.

Bakkasama said:
Actually, with Dazzarel in our head, even if we don't have his power it would mean that we are the only ones with access to his expertise and knowledge of the galaxy, which should be a great boon anyways. It would also mean that anyone who wants to try and learn something from him would have to ask us first, which is another safeguard against him being used against us.

It actually seems safer to have him inside us since even if we distrust how safe it is to use his powers or if it is worth it to spend time trying to learn them, we can simply choose not to.

Besides and more importantly... it saves us a socialise action to have him in our head. Unless you were planning to forget he exists and not spend time with him, having him in our head saves us the action we would spend doing so to reform him and we have seen already he is bad at manipulation, presumably because he has never been in a position in which it was relevant before.
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I'd much rather have the choice of NOT having him around some of the time, thankyouverymuch.

And I strongly suspect that this wouldn't work, because it would be the equivalent of saying "having a dragon chattering in your head grants a free action to socialize the dragon." Given how strict Poptart is about socialize actions, I don't buy that. The limiting factor on how much time we spend interacting with people isn't our physical access to them, since most of the people we'd choose to socialize would happily spend more time with us if we wanted. It's attention; we've got so many irons in the fire and do so many things that we have to go out of our way to make time to interact with people in a way likely to significantly improve our relationship with them.

Having the dragon inside our mind, as opposed to being a chibi-dragon pet floating around the Hall or something, doesn't mean we have more time, energy, and concentration to spare for interactions with it.

What it does mean is that nobody else has the ability to spare energy interacting with it if we don't.
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Gore17 on Mar 1, 2018 at 8:27 PM, finished with 205 posts and 56 votes.
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[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).
 
[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).

Ah fuck it, inner world shenanigans.
 
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The one thing is, I feel like if we vote to inhale the dragon Kirby style, we should also vote on what we're going to say to Jaffur the next time we see him if he's upset with us.

And he very well might not be upset with us!

But he might.

I'm not actually suggesting we vote on that right now; that was a statement intended to give perspective to the situation
 
Aranfan said:
Just cause they're on mute doesn't mean they aren't there. I'd rather not have him watching when we do private stuff. 's creepy.
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Also, I get that the seal on Dazarel is SUPPOSED to be invulnerable, but I can't bring myself to totally discount the possibility of there being some way, shape, or form in which it might leak, be bypassed, or something. It's unlikely, but still at least plausible. In the sense that "if I told you the plot was that the invulnerable seal turned out to be only imperfectly invulnerable, you wouldn't really be surprised to hear that."

Which means I want to at least consider the possibility that having a passenger inside our body/mind who has potential access to all our secrets and secret actions, but who also has reason to wish us ill... Miiiight backfire at some point.

It's like, yes it's supposed to be invulnerable. Yes the experts expect it to be invulnerable. The experts also advertised the Titanic as unsinkable.

Kakara exposes herself to a lot of weird things, and her existence is likely to get weirder before it gets more normal. Something might go wrong. I'd rather have at least the option of physically separating our liability (Dazarel) from the danger of weird effects that could somehow subvert our certainties about how things work.
 
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Cariyaga said:
So... hm.

If we sealed her in Kakara's head, would it be possible to send him out of her head in a multiform?
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You doubt it.
Simon_Jester said:
I'd much rather have the choice of NOT having him around some of the time, thankyouverymuch.
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Simon. I don't object to you voting against the head dragon option; I have no stake in the matter. That said, I know I've said before — in response to one of your posts, even — that you can shut him down if you wish.
Carrnage said:
So, what pun is Dazarel derived from?
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I thought it sounded cool.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Simon. I don't object to you voting against the head dragon option; I have no stake in the matter. That said, I know I've said before — in response to one of your posts, even — that you can shut him down if you wish.
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I am... somewhat suspicious of the proposition that this is absolutely reliable, see "the Titanic is unsinkable" for reference. I accept that you're saying it, but I also accept that the "Lawful Evil," "actions have consequences," and "unreliable narrator" descriptors are applicable.

In addition to that, and independent of that, if we start interacting consistently with the dragon and especially if we start tapping the dragon for power, which is basically the only point of doing this at all AND the only reason the "Ambitious" trait is being applied to it...

We may well give the dragon opportunities to learn or deduce things, despite our having "mute/deafen" buttons for the dragon's interactions with us.

Sure, we could give the dragon such opportunities under the "chibi dragon" plan, but the "chibi dragon" gives us less incentive to build a strong relationship with the dragon and rely on it for advice or power.
 
KaintukeeBob said:
I'm betting his 'knowledge of the galaxy' is actually fairly limited. "That planet had enough warriors who were strong enough that I couldn't be sure to beat them all before they could really hurt me, so I never went there. I can tell you all about the dozen planets over that way, or at least how they were before I made them into rubble."

"Oh, and avoid the people with bright yellow skin. They don't actually taste like bananas. 3/10, would not recommend.
..
6/10 with rice."
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I disagree on the knowledge part. He's an incredibly powerful mind reader and by all accounts incredibly long-lived. He's also dropped a lot of rumors of the wider galaxy, specific information about saiyins and the Enemy that probably wasn't explicitly looking for which implies that he actually keeps some level of tabs on the galaxy.

It'd also be useful to gain any constitutional knowledge he has, since he apparently a fairly skilled ki user, psychic and travels through space. @PoptartProdigy could he count as a tutor for any skills if he's relatively cooperative?
PoptartProdigy said:
*sorcerers furiously do back-of-the-envelope calculations*

It'd stay with One.
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....What if One dies?
 
Simon_Jester said:
I am... somewhat suspicious of the proposition that this is absolutely reliable, see "the Titanic is unsinkable" for reference. I accept that you're saying it, but I also accept that the "Lawful Evil," "actions have consequences," and "unreliable narrator" descriptors are applicable.

In addition to that, and independent of that, if we start interacting consistently with the dragon and especially if we start tapping the dragon for power, which is basically the only point of doing this at all AND the only reason the "Ambitious" trait is being applied to it...

We may well give the dragon opportunities to learn or deduce things, despite our having "mute/deafen" buttons for the dragon's interactions with us.

Sure, we could give the dragon such opportunities under the "chibi dragon" plan, but the "chibi dragon" gives us less incentive to build a strong relationship with the dragon and rely on it for advice or power.
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You're saying we should ignore the GM and listen to you instead.
 
He knows too much to be allowed to run free, and anything other than sealing him inside Kakara is going to end with Gold Man Genocide hurling him into the sun the moment she turns her back.
 
Andres110 said:
You're saying we should ignore the GM and listen to you instead.
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No.

What I'm saying is, unless I am much mistaken, the GM is representing to us the professional opinions of a bunch of sorcerors who are in a hurry. The odds are quite high that they are correct, but not 100%.

As far as I can tell, we're getting the sorcerors' assurance, NOT the QM's word of honor, in other words.

If the sorcerors were wrong, or there was some important parameter about the situation that they didn't know, do you think Poptart would tell us about that? Because I don't. Thus, while I AM willing to accept that the sorcerors' assurance means that we shouldn't worry about the seal on the dragon being 'leaky' from Day One, or being easy to subvert by any means... I'm not willing to accept that it's literally indestructible by the means of every threat and opponent we may encounter in many long years over the course of the game.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
I thought it sounded cool.
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Frieza's race confirmed.

[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).
 
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