Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
No.
And they aren't satellites. They go on Marv Hubs. (Or where a Hub would go in a BZ.)
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
We did the Tiberium Stabilizers, and they were the Big Thing because they slow the mutation rate.
Inhibitors are just raw abatement, which we already have plenty of. Granted, we'll probably do the Red Zone one we have available sometime relatively soon. But it's not an urgent priority.
Inhibitors are just raw abatement, which we already have plenty of. Granted, we'll probably do the Red Zone one we have available sometime relatively soon. But it's not an urgent priority.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah. Granger's big project was the Tiberium Stabilizer, which he did, and if he hadn't finished it, Seo would surely have continued it.
The Tiberium Inhibitor is basically just a prototype, probably knocked together by Seo himself or his department. Which consists of the galaxy-brained idea of "what if we take the Scrin machines for enhancing the growth of tiberium and... plug them in... upside-down?" The good news is, it actually works to slow growing tiberium. The bad news is, implementing it on a global scale is a hugely expensive project, one that would make the Tiberium Stabilizer look cheap by comparison. Implementing specific bits and pieces of the system is less overwhelming, but still a quite expensive way to get tiberium abatement, at a time when we are already rolling back tiberium successfully.
The Tiberium Inhibitor is basically just a prototype, probably knocked together by Seo himself or his department. Which consists of the galaxy-brained idea of "what if we take the Scrin machines for enhancing the growth of tiberium and... plug them in... upside-down?" The good news is, it actually works to slow growing tiberium. The bad news is, implementing it on a global scale is a hugely expensive project, one that would make the Tiberium Stabilizer look cheap by comparison. Implementing specific bits and pieces of the system is less overwhelming, but still a quite expensive way to get tiberium abatement, at a time when we are already rolling back tiberium successfully.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
The man literally told them to reverse the polarity and it actually worked.
Maybe Seo is an actually mad scientist? He happily experiments with deadly materials and alien technology. One of his experiments, the Tidal Tiberium Plant, went wrong, but he would still do it again if he had the resources. There is even has a SCIENCE! meter that we need to keep filled up. I'll bet that he wears a lab coat to GDI meetings.
If he doesn't do an evil sounding laugh after putting up orbital space weapons, I'll be disappointed.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I added in a line for Stage 2+3 in this update:
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2+3) 291/700 5 dice 50R 18%, 6 dice 60R 53%, 7 dice 70R 82%, 8 dice 80R 95%
(For anyone who doesn't know, Staged projects always have the same progress cost for each Stage. So Stage 3 of Perennials will be 0/350 as well.)
This is incorrect. 4 dice on Arcologies only has a 33% chance, while 5 dice has a 78% chance. So the median-ish dice needed should be 4.5.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
As it was noted in quest that railgun harvesters might soon be obsolete we can reasonably expect it to be done soon-ish I think. And if the expected cost to implement was too high for them to be worth replacing all the Harvesters with that would be noted too I would expect.
Refitting Harvester factories to build high tech tentacled hovercraft seems... if doable, than rather difficult. Having Railgun Harvester factories might make the process a bit cheaper, maybe, but that does not seem worth it. Also, one way or another GDI has a massive number of railgun-less harvester factories to refit, I don't see why those would be much harder to retool if railgun versions can be.
I am rather strongly against, we need a lot of CapGs fast and Tokyo is a lot more expensive and slower source of them. It needs Phase 4 for the same output as Nuuk Phase 3, and we don't need the Consumer Goods right now (nice as they would be). We definitely need to do some phases of Tokyo at some point for chip production redundancy, but now with how stretched we are CapG wise is not the time I believe.
I wanted that too, but that -1 CapG of Vein Mines is a killer and we need those Resources. Total cost should be about -15 PS which is blegh but than again PS seems quite easy to get, and we are on track to get a lot while fulfilling the plan.
Wartime Factory Refits give +2 Energy and Reykjavik gives +1 at Phase 2 and +2 at Phase 3. If we avoid harvesters and wait a bit with rockets we should be able to manage, and in return we military dice and considerably higher production of warmachines quite a bit sooner. I expect us spend -6 Energy before starting the next fusion plants if we are frugal, and there is that +3 reserve in case of emergency. If Nod blows up some power plants we could disable the industrial zones and some of the war factories for a while or something until we finish another power plant or repair some, it might still result in the same amount of tanks produced than if we did power plants first in the time before the next round of fusion is finished.
That -2 Energy add 5.8 Resources to the project if my math is right if supplied by fusion not to mention the dice to build those plants. Its not actually all that cheap compared to our other 20R options. We also should not be skimping Rs on mining of all things I don't think.
Wartime Factory Refits would reduce the strain too though, and doing those soon is not compatible with doing Harvesters soon.
Offshore mining would refund itself in like two quarters. Also, it should be 2-4 Qs to refund their R cost as either the action succeeds with one Dice or with two, each costing 10Rs.
By the time ISC will be done we would have more CapGs from Reykjavik if not from Nuuk, that action takes a long time. My plan does Industrial Zones and Wartime Refits as well as ISC and I don't foresee any problems. And for all that some new military deployment actions might need CapGs that +3 (+2 the turn after this one from Reykjavik) seems enough while keeping 1-2 CapGs in reserve. Also, its not like we don't have plenty of high priority CapG-less actions to do if it was a problem.
And if CapG demand goes up or Nod does sabotage or something, well, we can just turn off some of those Wartime Refit factories and still would have all the tanks they build in the meantime without lowering overall production below what it was before those refits.
Low quality housing is part of that +Housing too though? So basically we have 16 (current +Housing) + 23 (current low quality housing) = 39 Low Quality Housing, 16 of them empty. Is as I understand it. And what we need to do is not build more +Housing, but high quality homes like Arcologies, pure +Housing numbers don't do anything alone now that everyone has some kind of a home. If we magicked up 23 High Quality Housing right now we have +39 Housing, all of it empty low quality buildings.
We could go through that surplus if we wanted to, but we don't have to. I took a look at the likely actions in those Quarters and so long as we avoid Harvesters and wait a bit with building more missiles and Zone until after the new power plant which seems like no great burden we can do it just fine looks like. And we could still afford those missiles, it would just leave us with just a few +Energy again.
CapGs are a lot harder to get than Energy and most importantly are needed asap for Wartime Factory Refits is the thing. After those getting CapGs asap will not be nearly as important I don't think, I dont see any other high priority CapG heavy action in the list, just some that cost 1-2 per.
They seem like a very low hanging fruit from the text we got when we completed previous phases, it's refitting rush build and badly refit old factories which is a lot, lot easier than building new ones as we have seen with previous factory refits. It's the best action we have for reinforcing our military, it just does not involve new technology. Also the MilDice are nice given our massive focus there right now.
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- Location
- MSC
Could we ask Energy Department (or whoever's responsible for energy) to find new cheap projects via performing in-depth review of existing Power grid and Energy sources?
I mean there has to be some cheap upgrades to existing grid to increase energy output, right?
- Location
- The Underdark
No, because Energy is one of your subdepartments. This is doing something for the military or similar.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
"As it was noted in quest that railgun harvesters might soon be obsolete we can reasonably expect it to be done soon-ish I think. And if the expected cost to implement was too high for them to be worth replacing all the Harvesters with that would be noted too I would expect..."
I don't know exactly what you're trying to argue here. What's going to happen, at some point, is that we get a chance to develop a next-generation Scrintech-inspired harvester. This will presumably be followed by an ambitious and expensive project to actually deploy that harvester. There may be an upgunned railgun version of the same design, to fill the role of the current railgun harvesters.
However, the language we've been given does not strongly suggest that this development will be ready soon. It is often a matter of years before the kind of tech we get from the gachas actually reaches deployment. Given that a railgun harvester factory can pay for itself in 4-6 quarters of operation, it's not that bad of a choice. In the short term it has a minor impact. Waiting for a superior version of the technology is not necessarily a good idea when we're trying to find constructive things to do now and are a bit hard up for options because we don't want to overextend ZOCOM or burn our last points of Capital Goods.
...
"I wanted that too, but that -1 CapG of Vein Mines is a killer and we need those Resources. Total cost should be about -15 PS which is blegh but than again PS seems quite easy to get, and we are on track to get a lot while fulfilling the plan."
The big question is whether we're going to have to keep paying Political Support for each phase of offshore mining, or whether the cost disappears or decreases greatly after the first phase of the project. We can't know the answer until we've actually done a phase, at which point we can decide whether to press forward.
...
"Wartime Factory Refits give +2 Energy and Reykjavik gives +1 at Phase 2 and +2 at Phase 3. If we avoid harvesters and wait a bit with rockets we should be able to manage, and in return we military dice and considerably higher production of warmachines quite a bit sooner. I expect us spend -6 Energy before starting the next fusion plants if we are frugal, and there is that +3 reserve in case of emergency. If Nod blows up some power plants we could disable the industrial zones and some of the war factories for a while or something until we finish another power plant or repair some, it might still result in the same amount of tanks produced than if we did power plants first in the time before the next round of fusion is finished."
See, I'm seeing a lot of "we can scrape by" and "if we are frugal."
That is what I am trying to avoid. I don't want to rush Capital Goods so hard that we have to barely scrape by on Energy and avoid projects that cost meaningful Energy. I want to maintain a solid surplus and stop running on the ragged edge of electrical grid collapse, so that we are free to pursue attractive projects without fear, and so that we don't have to frantically declare a screeching halt to our work on Capital Goods projects in any one turn to focus on Energy. In the long run, lurching back and forth between the two priorities like a drunken sailor isn't doing us any favors.
...
"That -2 Energy add 5.8 Resources to the project if my math is right if supplied by fusion not to mention the dice to build those plants. Its not actually all that cheap compared to our other 20R options. We also should not be skimping Rs on mining of all things I don't think."
The 20+ R/die options in Tiberium that grant Resource income are:
Vein Mines (on hold; we don't have the Capital Goods to do this on a large scale)
Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (on hold; we aren't in the mood to launch the major military offensive this would entail)
Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (on hold; we aren't in the mood to stretch ZOCOM further on the eve of war)
Red Zone Containment Lines (actively underway, but 25 R/die, and RpT return on investment may drop after Stage 5)
Glacier Mining (locked behind Red Zone harvesting)
Offshore Harvester Stations (actively being pursued)
Right now, in this moment, we're taking a breather. That doesn't mean we always will, but right now we are. We'll have a better idea of what to do next after we've seen what's behind a few existing projects or scraped together a few points of Capital Goods. Until then, we are, yes, looking for cheap ways to make our tiberium dice useful for something rather than just leaving them idle.
...
"Wartime Factory Refits would reduce the strain too though, and doing those soon is not compatible with doing Harvesters soon."
The first half of your statement is doubtful because ZOCOM's main stressors are limited manpower and lack of heavy equipment that hasn't been developed yet and isn't manufactured in the war factories we're refitting.
The second half is doubtful because there's no real contradiction between doing war factory refits and doing various Harvester factories soon. The main obstacle to the war factory refits is finding the Capital Goods, which requires Heavy Industry dice. The harvester factories are rolled for with Tiberium dice.
...
"Offshore mining would refund itself in like two quarters. Also, it should be 2-4 Qs to refund their R cost as either the action succeeds with one Dice or with two, each costing 10Rs."
Yes. The Railgun Harvester Factory action has a roughly 70% chance of succeeding with one die, 30% of two dice, so the expected cost is 0.7(10)+0.3(20) = 7+6 = 13 R. Then throw in one eighth of the cost of a set of fusion plants. You're looking at a number somewhere in the range of 20-25 R. And yes, there are other projects that pay for themselves faster, but as I just established by running down the list, those are all projects that we're either already working on, working on slowly because we can't afford to go full-bore on them, or both. At least the harvester factories do something.
...
"By the time ISC will be done we would have more CapGs from Reykjavik if not from Nuuk, that action takes a long time. My plan does Industrial Zones and Wartime Refits as well as ISC and I don't foresee any problems. And for all that some new military deployment actions might need CapGs that +3 (+2 the turn after this one from Reykjavik) seems enough while keeping 1-2 CapGs in reserve. Also, its not like we don't have plenty of high priority CapG-less actions to do if it was a problem."
You don't foresee any problems because you're being very optimistic about the size of Capital Goods and Energy reserves we'll need in order to avoid problems, and see the war factory refits as so essential that you're willing to cut our margin of error quite finely to get that result. Honestly, I think it would be better to just do our best to increase Capital Goods, following a steady, reasonable program of investment, and take the war factory refit stages when and as we feel that we can afford them individually.
...
"And if CapG demand goes up or Nod does sabotage or something, well, we can just turn off some of those Wartime Refit factories and still would have all the tanks they build in the meantime without lowering overall production below what it was before those refits."
Capital Goods do not work that way. We can't just switch off a factory and recover the Capital Goods that went into making it, and a factory that's been extensively retooled to work with more Capital Goods can't just flip a switch and go back to operating on older principles.
Sabotage to the Capital Goods supply impacts our economy and makes it difficult for us to do new military deployment projects. We should maintain a broader surplus of this item, at least most of the time when we have no specific project holding a gun to our head and demanding that we burn through our surplus.
The tiberium stabilizer was worth that kind of gun-to-head urgency. The war factory refits aren't, because they are merely quite useful, not a gigantic step forward in saving the entire planet.
...
"Low quality housing is part of that +Housing too though? So basically we have 16 (current +Housing) + 23 (current low quality housing) = 39 Low Quality Housing, 16 of them empty. Is as I understand it. And what we need to do is not build more +Housing, but high quality homes like Arcologies, pure +Housing numbers don't do anything alone now that everyone has some kind of a home. If we magicked up 23 High Quality Housing right now we have +39 Housing, all of it empty low quality buildings."
All the +Housing projects we're seriously contemplating are high or at least acceptably medium quality, unless the communal housing project turns out to suck and turns out after the fact to be low quality.
The point here is that we are trying to build up enough of a Housing surplus that all the low-quality housing is "surplus" housing we don't require people to live in if we can help it.
...
"They seem like a very low hanging fruit from the text we got when we completed previous phases, it's refitting rush build and badly refit old factories which is a lot, lot easier than building new ones as we have seen with previous factory refits. It's the best action we have for reinforcing our military, it just does not involve new technology. Also the MilDice are nice given our massive focus there right now."
I'm not saying it's not a desirable or important project.
I'm just saying we shouldn't scramble our entire economic priority structure or deliberately run at super-narrow margins of Capital Goods availability purely to get this project done a quarter or two sooner.
We've spent years working constantly to increase Energy availability. Why do there 'have to' be 'cheap upgrades' that would improve the situation meaningfully? If there were cheap upgrades, why wouldn't we have already taken them?
I hadn't wanted to treat that as confirmed until I actually saw it in a turn update, but it's good to know.
Huh. Must have gotten a bit jumbled up on which numbers corresponded to what. Since that could actively mislead someone, I'll go back and edit it.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We don't yet know if there are going to be multiple phases for the Offshore Harvesters or not. It could be a one-off project, or it could be we'll face a delay before we can build more.
Either way, the PS cost is because we're doing this following the double-nat 1 on Tidal Power, so it's seen as us risking another disaster similar to the first. If we prove we can do this without the platforms getting eaten by Tib, (mostly by avoiding more nat 1s) any further PS cost would need a new narrative justification.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I mean yeah, but my point is basically "we don't know whether pursuing this project is a good idea or a bad idea, wait and see" combined with "we don't want to overspend dice on a project that explicitly costs -5 PS per die." I'd love for this thing to complete with only two dice, though admittedly that'd require some luck.
It could (I'm hoping not, but it could) turn out to be like real life nuclear power, in that a high-profile disaster or two causes so much bad public relations that even subsequent stages cost -5 PS per phase or something. It'd be consistent with the general pattern where the really good income-increasing Tib options all come at a price, be it in Logistics costs and military overstretch, or Capital Goods, or something to keep us from just exponentially piling up income boosts to the sky.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The thing is, range isn't as pressing a concern for tanks as it is for, say, ships or aircraft.
A ship at sea, or an aircraft in flight, is thrown back wholly on their own resources until they can return to a port or air strip. (There are exceptions--underway replenishment and in flight refueling--but one is difficult to do and the other is restricted to refueling.) Tanks and other AFVs can be refueled and rearmed in the field, and don't need fuel to loiter--in fact, because of their limited overland speed and terrain restrictions compared to VTOL aircraft, you want them stationed as close to the frontlines as practical so they can be brought into action promptly. So generally you bring the fuel to the tanks, not the other way around.
The upshot here being that where ships and aircraft must act, for all intents and purposes, only on their own reserves until they return to base, tanks are plugged into the logistics train of their unit as a matter of course. Increased range would improve their ability to operate independently, yes, but tanks don't operate independently, they operate as a medium-sized cog in the vast killing machine that is a mechanized division on the attack. Take a tank out of such a unit, deprive it of its supporting infantry and artillery and air defense and engineering vehicles and the hundred other services that a mechanized division provides, and it just won't fare very well whatever powerplant it had.
Now, a Super MARV might see some benefit, being essentially a ship in a vast sea of Tiberium, and not being particularly more vulnerable to Catalyst missiles with a LT powerplant than without. But that's also large enough to warrant it's own small modular reactor, and who knows if LT is competitive with that.
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Thats a fair argument.
The main issue with it that I can think of is that we know the Scrin brought along Catalyst weapons of their own.
Not the big flashy support powers of Nod, but as the Ravagers Tiberium Agitation ability. An infantry ability.
Something that can be done at range to blow up anything that comtains Tib or is heavily Tib based.
And works on Scrin units.
Its a little like bringing nerve gas to a battlefield and not equipping your troops with gas masks.
They could be so incompetent as to simply have dropped antiCatalyst hardening as a costcutting measure; no idea what kind of chickenshit outfit was fronting the Mining Expedition. But its also possible that there simply is no defense.
And as there was at least one Scrin in the Mining Fleet, I would suspect dude would not skimp on personal safety.
But we are just speculating.
It wasnt that long ago that we lost 20% of our military dice to an assassination.
Kane took the Tacitus from us less than ten years ago. Bintang drove off a cruiser squadron; with difficulty, but she did it.
Plus there's the true enemy, Tiberium, who we only got a breather from for a year.
Its only been in the last year that we've had a breather, and that was because @Derpmind got us that break from Tiberium, allowing us to focus on other things for a bit. Its been a long, painful grind otherwise.
Given as the project hasnt finished, I dont see how you came to this conclusion.
Plenty of projects have rolled badly; remember how the Cruiser shipyards seemed actively cursed?
Or even the number of Military projects that rolled poorly this turn, requiring extra dice to finish?
IIRC, InOps forecast was for a two to four year period between 2059 and 2062
The median for that would be ending of 2060/beginning of 2061.
And thats assuming that there is active warlord coordination of military operations in the absence of Kane.
At the very least, current events have demonstrated that InOps has not missed any major or sustained warlord coordination efforts.
Yet.
QUESTION
Didnt Granger suffer proportionately worse loss of political support back during the fiasco with the tainted fungus bars?
Im honestly curious.
Point of order:
After some consideration, and staring at a couple maps, I'm proposing that we delay the start of the Karachi Sprint to Q1 2060.
Why? Two words: Monsoon season.
As per Wikipedia, Pakistan has four seasons:
Cool dry winter from December to February
Hot dry spring from March through May
Southwest monsoon period/summer rainy season, from June to September
Retreating monsoon period of October and November
Karachi itself is apparently anomalously dry for most of the year outside July and September, but the rest of central Pakistan along the Indus gets tropical rains. And flooding. A lot of flooding.
We really dont want to be doing an invasion and major construction work along the floodplains of the Indus River in the rainy season after around half a century of neglect of the water works that mitigate its effects. Especially since GDI doesnt have much institutional knowledge of working under those conditions.
TLDR
Plan around Karachi Sprint to start Q1 2060 and finish Q2 2060.
For situational bonuses due to the season and to avoid maluses due to bad weather and flooding.
The thing is? Aside from the welcome increase in cash, Railgun Harvesters harden our ability to harvest Tiberium. They raise the threshold required to successfully raid GDI harvesting activities from just a couple militants, bikes and buggies to a seriousface incursion. Something that requires a serious commitment.
This both reduces the potential for interruptions to our money supply, and it reduces our casualty rate from any such attacks.
AND it reduces the number of guards needed for Harvesting ops, allowing the military to send those troops elsewhere.
Trained human personnel are increasingly an issue for GDI operations going forward, and unlike equipment, we cant just build a new soldier or worker off an assembly line in a couple days.
Conserving our people is critical. If we have to spend more cash to do so, c'est la vie.
It is always a bad time to push for Liquid T Power Cells.
More seriously, the use of Liquid Tiberium as a power source requires a whole new set of infrastructure for processing, storing and transporting Liquid Tiberium, as well as a procession of new personnel trained and security-cleared to handle this hazardous material to acceptable standards of safety.
This represents a massive new attack surface of vulnerabilities to be exploited by Nod, or even just to fall prey to the vagaries of serendipity and the carelessness of human beings. Surprise Shadow Team in one fusion reactor is maybe a loss of -1 Energy. Surprise Shadow Team in a Liquid T processing facility and you could lose the entire sector. Or worse.
Thats in addition to all the shiny new liquid T power cells out there that now have to be protected from catalyst weapons.
And from lowlevel warlords who would love the chance to loot them to make pocket nukes. A situation where a Shadow Team can conceivably cripple an armored division by getting at one supply truck with a catalyst weapon is objectively suboptimal.
This sort of risk is unavoidable when you are Nod, because
A)GDI actively avoids attacks that spill Tib unnecessarily
B)GDI has no catalyst weapons
C)You have no viable alternatives for high-density power anyway.
Not so cool for GDI, because
A)Nod either doesnt give a fuck about Tib spills in your territory, considers spills a GDI problem for those nerds to clean up, or actively want to promote the spread of Tib and consider Tib seeding acceptsble
B)You have alternatives for power generation, with everything from fusion reactors to radiothermal generators to solar cells and batteries to synthfuels
C)Nod HAS Catalyst weapons to blow up anything with Tiberium inside
Note that Nod invested intelligence resources in stealing plans for GDI Peaker Fusion.
The smarter warlords are not enthused by the potential for catastrophe that Liquid T holds either.
1)Where are you going to process and store the Liquid T if you cannot do so in Blue or Yellow Zones?
As far as I know GDI cannot build refineries in Red Zones. Or defend them against surprise Nod.
We built a railway line but thats it.
2)Unfortunately? What happens in Red Zones does not stay in Red Zones.
The Bad End for CnC3's GDI campaign had the GDI commander use a Liquid T bomb on the final major Scrin facility at Ground Zero. In the Italian Red Zone, where there were no civilians besides some mutants. It still killed 25 million people. Before that, the Australian Red Zone came into being after Nod blew up a GDI Liquid T research facility.
Liquid T is nasty, nasty shit. If you have sufficient amounts of it to be useful, you have sufficient amounts for oops.
Not to mention the proliferation risk from putting liquid T out where lowlevel warlords can get at it.
The type of warlord who lacks the industrial base to build their own WMD but would really, really like the opportunity to loot the components to juryrig one.
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- Location
- USA
Didn't we get the liquid tib power research from the nod research gatcha?
They already have this tech. Or am I remembering wrong?
The first and second tier warlords have this stuff yes. They can already build their own nukes just fine too.
The lower level warlords do not. They lack the resources. They are the ones who are generally interested in getting their hands on more juryrigged dakka, both for use against GDI and against local Nod rivals. And just for clout. And they're the ones who generally dont consider the implications or repercussions before popping one off in anger.
Or by mistake.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That makes things worse for Nuuks, actually. We can technically complete Nuuks 3 in that timeframe, but for all intents and purposes we'll only get the benefits of Nuuks 2.
And if we delay for the goodies we can buy with Nuuks 3, we'd have to delay until Q1 2061--by which point the war will almost certainly be underway in earnest.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
Looking at the Scrin from the perspective that they are miners, I think that the Tiberium Agitation ability could be like mining explosives. Your going to use it far away from your actual machinery to loosen the material you want to get out. It is just that in this instance the Scrin are converting something used for mining to be used for warfare, so they don't have defenses for it.
Miners don't expect to need to weaponize their blasting charges to fight off the surprise molemen taking up residence in their mine.
Good point on the monsoons. I just wonder how much the global weather has changed from the massive Tiberium glaciers and other geographical changes. I wouldn't think it would be enough to effect the monsoons, but it is still a thought.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes. I, personally, constructed the Tiberium Stabilizer network. With my own bare hands.
The thread as a whole jumped on the project. We, collectively, planned out how to get the Stabilizers up ASAP. I can't take any personal credit for that. (It would have still been built and been pushed just as fast without me.)
A quick read of the turn in question shows we didn't lose any PS from the event itself.
I'm not sure, but hasn't the world's weather been severely affected by Tiberium? All I recall are that we get Ion Storms now. Or maybe we still get monsoon seasons, IDK.
Yeah, IIRC Nod Powerplants all run off of liquid Tibierum. It's ubiquitous for them:
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
The exact wording this this:
Which really does not leave me optimistic. I acknowledge that Harvesters are certainly not a net negative, but consider them to be a very low priority.
Btw why don't you just use quotes? As in, SVs quote function.
While true I would be very surprised if the PS cost remained, for multiple reasons including that it would make the action pretty much useless. But yes we cant be certain and will see after we do it. That said I don't foresee any issues if we it does turn out to cost PS, as we could always just pivot from Industrial Zones to Fusion Plants without an issue with our large Power buffer, or just rely on non-Vein non-offshore mining actions.
Either way we need to check asap, as the action is too promising not to and the PS cost dropping in time hardly quarantined, or at least within an acceptable time frame.
Said scraping by includes a decent buffer so grid collapse is very unlikely, even if Nod rolled well on sabotage they are more likely to target Boston or something as losing CapGs would hurt us more.
If running on like +4 Energy (and +3 reserve) makes you that nervous than fair enough, but that's not gonna change my plan or vote.
As for avoiding some Power hungry action, I would agree except that the actions in question do not seem high priority anyway and we buy Wartime Factory Refits a couple Qs sooner which should amount to a nice number of extra tanks for our military so seems well worth it. But I do understand the sentiment.
Well I am a fan of pushing into the Red actually given the text on that action, and that our military should get a boost from Wartime Factory Refits. But assuming that Offshore does not work out and expanding into Red or Yellow is truly a bad idea currently than yes, Harvesters would be the best choice.
ZOCOM uses a lot of older tech too, we are far, far from replacing all of their stuff with the new. If ZOCOM would not be boosted by this because manpower issues though we can still expand into the Yellow.
We can not get Wartime Factory Refits soon (as in, after getting Industrial Zones and before next fusion) and get Harvesters before the next round of power plants without going under +4 Power, which people very much don't seem to want including me. After the next fusion plant sure, as much as I would still most likely oppose that unless we can't/shouldn't Red Zone and Offshore.
And I believe that people are overstating the problems and going negative on Power or CapG income. A couple factories could be closed temporarily to free up CapG production for example, as CapG is what tanks are build out of. It would be annoying but it would also be annoying to not have all those extra tanks that could be produced if we take Wartime Factory Refits asap.
It takes CapG to retool or build a factory, but if an action ties down a part of our CapG income as opposed to a one time hit than it should logically at least mostly be consumed by maintenance and as material to turn into Orcas and tanks.
I fully support a healthy CapG buffer if possible, but I support using up those CapGs that would be lying around idle on tanks instead right now more.
Btw are the stabilizers really such a huge deal? For their cost and how major they are considered in universe +20% time to mutation does not seem that important to me when an average mutation seems counterable by like two actions.
Yes but that's not what you said... ah nevermind, we seem to agree on this turns out so lets close this thread.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Scrin were not expecting to fight anyone with anything remotely like EMP, they were a mining group. So I really don't see a problem with them lacking EMP hardening so to say, so long as their own EMPs do not have a large indiscriminate area of effect.
Also Scrin units appear eminently expendable so it could just not be cost effective.
Could that ability be used on Motherships? Those are the ones with actual Scrin I believe I read.
They could also be escorted by by one of the extra tanks from Wartime Factory Refit or something, and provides more patrols and quick reaction forces. I get that it hardens our mining, but other things do that too.
Regarding manpower issues more tanks and other heavies allow you to use fewer infantry and light vehicles I believe, so more firepower for less/same manpower.
And really more warmachines and gear would definitely conserve GDI soldiers lives overall.
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@Ithillid put us on notice some time ago that our pool of abatement options isn't infinite. We haven't started scrapping the bottom of the barrel yet, but there is a bottom.
In light of that, +20% time to mutation adds a bunch of time over the course of the quest. That single project put off the end by decades.
More tactically, it's why we can consider maximizing revenue instead of pushing out abatement projects every two to four quarters to keep pace.
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To be fair, I doubt the Scrin were expecting to come under fire from their own weaponry. My working hypothesis is that Scrin catalyst weapons are designed as a cheap and easy way to blow up any offending leftover organisms from the "tiberium biosphere with mutants" phase that they expect to have largely ended by the time they arrive.
Probably just as well if we postpone a bit, although frankly tiberium has probably fucked up the Earth's climate to the point where the monsoon cycle no longer exists in recognizable form.
The Karachi Sprint is, broadly speaking, compatible with Nuuk. With Philadelphia Phase 5 completed in 2059... Even without Free dice we can throw 13 Tiberium and Infrastructure dice at Karachi per turn, rolling roughly as I recall (by 2060, counting the Philly Phase 5 bonus)...
13d100 + 7*36 + 6*33 =
656 + 252 + 198 =
1056 Progress per turn.
Since the entire project is 2350 Progress, that means we could easily do the whole thing in three turns without spending a single Free die- indeed, we'd have a lot else to do on the third turn. Getting it in two turns with reasonable confidence means we need at least 1200 Progress/turn, preferably more if we really want the margin of error, requiring an additional ~200 Progress, optimally provided by Free dice in Tiberium... which means a commitment of about 2-3 Free dice per turn, roughly.
The big issue is going to be funding, because that's a lot of 20 R/die dice being rolled. Meanwhile we'd also be rolling 20 R/die in Orbital (six dice) and probably Heavy Industry (five dice), even before we budget Free dice. That's... 7 Tiberium + 6 Infrastructure + 6 Orbital + 5 Heavy Industry = 24 dice or 480 Resources just on those categories alone. Even given that we'll be making more income then than we are now, that doesn't leave a lot of resources to spread around for Light Industry, Services, Agriculture, and Military. Fortunately, other than Military none of those are critical to our Plan commitments.
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It's a lot more than that. Every time we roll for mutation, we roll a 1d4 to determine how long till the next mutation happens. But the Stabilizers add a +1 to that number, meaning we actually roll 1d4+1. That makes the fastest mutation can happen from 1 to 2 quarters, and the slowest from 4 to 5 quarters. It's a boost of between 100% to 25% in the time between mutations; on average (or median, IDK statistics) I believe it should be around a +40% boost. (Since the average d4 is 2.5, 1/2.5 is 0.4 or 40%.)
Regardless, they're already built. And we're not likely to see any follow up projects anytime soon, if ever.