Good point on the monsoons. I just wonder how much the global weather has changed from the massive Tiberium glaciers and other geographical changes. I wouldn't think it would be enough to effect the monsoons, but it is still a thought.
I mean, you wouldn't think that burning some oil and coal deposits would be enough to fuck up the Gulf Stream or open the Northwest Passage or acidify the oceans, and yet here we are. :p


"Which really does not leave me optimistic. I acknowledge that Harvesters are certainly not a net negative, but consider them to be a very low priority."

Yeah, but again, all the expensive high-cost high-reward Tiberium options have issues. It doesn't matter if the factories aren't ideal, if the ideal options are all on ice anyway.

Would you rather do Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions? Because the RpT return on investment there is even less, to the tune of about 2 RpT per Tiberium die rolled. Granted there's no strings attached in the form of Labor or Energy costs, but also no military reward in the form of badass harvesters with railguns murderizing Nod raiders.

It's a planquest, we're never going to be able to do what's ideal in all categories. We have to bear in mind the limits of what is feasible.

...

"Btw why don't you just use quotes? As in, SVs quote function."

Because I keep getting kicked in the nuts for spaghetti posting, and I'm trying to figure out a way to engage meaningfully and informatively and constructively with posts like yours, without falling foul of spaghetti posting rules. Since you post on like 12 different subjects at once, my options are to artificially enumerate your points that I want to respond to and reply to them in one big wall (#1, #2, #3...) or to do what I'm now doing.

All I want is to stay out of trouble and yet be able to respond to you meaningfully, without having to make like five separate posts responding to each one of your posts. This is a good faith attempt to do that without forcing you to constantly scroll up and down to figure out what I'm even talking about.

...

"Said scraping by includes a decent buffer so grid collapse is very unlikely, even if Nod rolled well on sabotage they are more likely to target Boston or something as losing CapGs would hurt us more.

If running on like +4 Energy (and +3 reserve) makes you that nervous than fair enough, but that's not gonna change my plan or vote."


The problem is that we're looking at both the sabotage risk and the problem of having to deliberately eschew Energy-hungry options to conserve resources. Historically, the latter is something the thread's been kind of bad at, anyway. Better to just not skimp on the fusion reactors and avoid having to worry about this problem, and also to reliably have the Energy budget to take advantage of attractive options that pop up.

Btw are the stabilizers really such a huge deal? For their cost and how major they are considered in universe +20% time to mutation does not seem that important to me when an average mutation seems counterable by like two actions.
The catch is that there are a finite number of mitigation actions we can actually take.

Eventually tiberium starts mutating more and more, rendering more and more of our existing abatement methods useless, requiring greater and greater dice investment for steadily diminishing returns. Eventually, tiberium overruns the Earth... because of mutation. We have no way of averting this without building the TCN. Thus, a machine that slows mutation may not make much obvious difference now, but having it will extend the viability of Earth as a semi-habitable planet by something like 10-20 years.

Which makes it a bigger deal than any other single project we have, at least when taken in isolation.
 
The Karachi Sprint is, broadly speaking, compatible with Nuuk. With Philadelphia Phase 5 completed in 2059... Even without Free dice we can throw 13 Tiberium and Infrastructure dice at Karachi per turn, rolling roughly as I recall (by 2060, counting the Philly Phase 5 bonus)...

13d100 + 7*36 + 6*33 =
656 + 252 + 198 =
1056 Progress per turn.

Since the entire project is 2350 Progress, that means we could easily do the whole thing in three turns without spending a single Free die- indeed, we'd have a lot else to do on the third turn. Getting it in two turns with reasonable confidence means we need at least 1200 Progress/turn, preferably more if we really want the margin of error, requiring an additional ~200 Progress, optimally provided by Free dice in Tiberium... which means a commitment of about 2-3 Free dice per turn, roughly.

The big issue is going to be funding, because that's a lot of 20 R/die dice being rolled. Meanwhile we'd also be rolling 20 R/die in Orbital (six dice) and probably Heavy Industry (five dice), even before we budget Free dice. That's... 7 Tiberium + 6 Infrastructure + 6 Orbital + 5 Heavy Industry = 24 dice or 480 Resources just on those categories alone. Even given that we'll be making more income then than we are now, that doesn't leave a lot of resources to spread around for Light Industry, Services, Agriculture, and Military. Fortunately, other than Military none of those are critical to our Plan commitments.
Any hardware we want for the Karachi Sprint has to be rolled out before we start, though.

If we go with Nuuks, we'll only have 9 Capital Goods--3 to start with, plus 4 from Nuuks 2 and 2 from Revy 3--with which to buy Vein Mines and military equipment before Q1 2060. Which means we pick between ICS this year and Zone Armor factories this year.
 
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It's a lot more than that. Every time we roll for mutation, we roll a 1d4 to determine how long till the next mutation happens. But the Stabilizers add a +1 to that number, meaning we actually roll 1d4+1. That makes the fastest mutation can happen from 1 to 2 quarters, and the slowest from 4 to 5 quarters. It's a boost of between 100% to 25% in the time between mutations; on average (or median, IDK statistics) I believe it should be around a +40% boost. (Since the average d4 is 2.5, 1/2.5 is 0.4 or 40%.)

Regardless, they're already built. And we're not likely to see any follow up projects anytime soon, if ever.
Oh right I messed up my math. 1+4=5, 5/2=2.5, 1 is 40% of 2.5 not 20%. Dunno how I managed that.

"Btw why don't you just use quotes? As in, SVs quote function."

Because I keep getting kicked in the nuts for spaghetti posting, and I'm trying to figure out a way to engage meaningfully and informatively and constructively with posts like yours, without falling foul of spaghetti posting rules. Since you post on like 12 different subjects at once, my options are to artificially enumerate your points that I want to respond to and reply to them in one big wall (#1, #2, #3...) or to do what I'm now doing.

All I want is to stay out of trouble and yet be able to respond to you meaningfully, without having to make like five separate posts responding to each one of your posts. This is a good faith attempt to do that without forcing you to constantly scroll up and down to figure out what I'm even talking about.
Ouch, my sympathies. I must say though, I don't see a practical difference between that and what you are doing? You are still quoting me and responding to those quotes, you just aren't using the quote function... well here's hoping that's enough for the mods, somehow.

Really I dunno why that rule exists, do they want us to respond to each point with a separate post or something? Or to not quote what point we are responding to? Ah well they surely have good reasons.

I have been making posts like that for... basically forever now and noone has seemed to mind (is that the right tense? It should be but it looks weird) except for once way back in TBG I think so I won't be changing how I post I don't think.
 
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I am rather strongly against, we need a lot of CapGs fast and Tokyo is a lot more expensive and slower source of them. It needs Phase 4 for the same output as Nuuk Phase 3, and we don't need the Consumer Goods right now (nice as they would be). We definitely need to do some phases of Tokyo at some point for chip production redundancy, but now with how stretched we are CapG wise is not the time I believe.
Erm... What do we need lots of Capitol Goods for right now?
I can see 17 points of Capitol Goods costing projects available now (skipping the Agri and Services ones), plus however many phases of Vein Mining. While BZHIS and Tokyo 4 would give 28 points. BZHIS pays for the Wartime Factory Refits, and everything else is piecemeal costs.
Comparing Tokyo 4 and Nuuk 3. Tokyo 4 only costs a little bit more because Nuuk costs more per die and per phase. Nuuk 3 also requires 4 more Energy than Tokyo 4, if you account for the cost of a quarter of a Fusion Plants phase, they are roughly equivalent.
It's a lot more than that. Every time we roll for mutation, we roll a 1d4 to determine how long till the next mutation happens. But the Stabilizers add a +1 to that number, meaning we actually roll 1d4+1. That makes the fastest mutation can happen from 1 to 2 quarters, and the slowest from 4 to 5 quarters. It's a boost of between 100% to 25% in the time between mutations; on average (or median, IDK statistics) I believe it should be around a +40% boost. (Since the average d4 is 2.5, 1/2.5 is 0.4 or 40%.)
Average mutation per quarter without Stabilizers is 1 point. Average mutation per quarter with Stabilizers is 0.71 points.
You do 2.5 (mean reduction per mutation roll) / 2.5 + 1 (mean time between rolls).
 
QUESTION
Didnt Granger suffer proportionately worse loss of political support back during the fiasco with the tainted fungus bars?
Im honestly curious.
The fungus bars happened in Q2 2050, which was before Parliament and political parties were introduced in Q3 2052. Despite the narrative referring to Granger as 'one of the most unpopular men in the administration' he didn't lose any political power despite thousands of people dying due to Tiberium laced fungus bars.

So really it's hard to say.
 
The fungus bars happened in Q2 2050, which was before Parliament and political parties were introduced in Q3 2052. Despite the narrative referring to Granger as 'one of the most unpopular men in the administration' he didn't lose any political power despite thousands of people dying due to Tiberium laced fungus bars.

So really it's hard to say.
I see it as him being unpopular but no-one was really powerful or willing enough to do anything about it. Other than the fungus bar incident, he really didn't do anything that would force him out of office. It helped that Parliament and the political parties hadn't reorganized and consolidated enough to have much sway in the GDI's goals until later.
 
Comparing Tokyo 4 and Nuuk 3. Tokyo 4 only costs a little bit more because Nuuk costs more per die and per phase. Nuuk 3 also requires 4 more Energy than Tokyo 4, if you account for the cost of a quarter of a Fusion Plants phase, they are roughly equivalent.
Hmm.
Tokyo 4Progress to CompleteAverage Cost per DieMedian diceMedian costEnergyCap Goods
CurrentN/AN/AN/AN/A123
CCF 317520360+160
Tokyo 1 + 2 + 3 + 418751526390-820
Total210015.5294502023

VS:
Nuuks 3Progress to CompleteAverage Cost per DieMedian diceMedian costEnergyCap Goods
CurrentN/AN/AN/AN/A123
CCF 317520360+160
Nuuks 1+2+311202016320-1220
Total129520193801623

The main problem with Tokyo isn't cost so much as dice--assuming we throw all our current HI dice at it every turn, and no Free dice, we'd need a year and a half to see the full return, on median. Whereas Nuuks 3 will complete in a year.

Granted, we'd see partial returns far sooner--Tokyo 2 guarenteed in Q2, for +2 Cap Goods, and Tokyo 3 in Q3 on median, for another +6. Which...might make this worth it, actually, we'd get the benefits of both HIS and Nuuks and for cheaper than HIS.
 
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Looking at the Scrin from the perspective that they are miners, I think that the Tiberium Agitation ability could be like mining explosives. Your going to use it far away from your actual machinery to loosen the material you want to get out. It is just that in this instance the Scrin are converting something used for mining to be used for warfare, so they don't have defenses for it.
Miners don't expect to need to weaponize their blasting charges to fight off the surprise molemen taking up residence in their mine.


Good point on the monsoons. I just wonder how much the global weather has changed from the massive Tiberium glaciers and other geographical changes. I wouldn't think it would be enough to effect the monsoons, but it is still a thought.
Looking at the Scrin from the perspective of a mining operation makes it worse IMO.
Assuming such a thing existed, would you carry a remote explosion initiator if you were mining fissile material? Or petroleum?
And its not like Tiberium Agitation affects unmined Tiberium either; you have to have mined it.

Besides, it was installedon a combat platform, not a mining platform.

Carbon emissions crashed as everyone went nuclear or electric or Tiberium, but large
As we have no reports of New York and the Netherlands drowning in rising oceans, you have to assume that shit is not materially worse climate-wise than it is IRL.
Yes. I, personally, constructed the Tiberium Stabilizer network. With my own bare hands. :V

The thread as a whole jumped on the project. We, collectively, planned out how to get the Stabilizers up ASAP. I can't take any personal credit for that. (It would have still been built and been pushed just as fast without me.)
Yeah, I know.
You still rolled the one year interregnum. So shush and accept your credit you mighty diceroller
:p
A quick read of the turn in question shows we didn't lose any PS from the event itself.
Thanks.
I was having trouble finding it.
I'm not sure, but hasn't the world's weather been severely affected by Tiberium? All I recall are that we get Ion Storms now. Or maybe we still get monsoon seasons, IDK.
Affected, maybe.
If one of the worlds major weather systems had actually stopped, I think we would have noticed.
And by noticed, I mean we'd have been screaming about it for the last several decades or so.

Yeah, IIRC Nod Powerplants all run off of liquid Tibierum. It's ubiquitous for them:
Those warlords big enough to have bases with power plants and Tib-upgraded power plants.
Thats a significant chunk of infrastructure that I suspect is beyond many, many warlords.

Scrin were not expecting to fight anyone with anything remotely like EMP, they were a mining group. So I really don't see a problem with them lacking EMP hardening so to say, so long as their own EMPs do not have a large indiscriminate area of effect.

Also Scrin units appear eminently expendable so it could just not be cost effective.
Could that ability be used on Motherships? Those are the ones with actual Scrin I believe I read.
Scrin were not expecting to fight anyone, but they still brought combat troops.
It depends on how competent we think these guys are.
True about their being expendable.

Ravagers cant target air.
But Motherships are apparently armed with catalst cannon, whatever those are.
They could also be escorted by by one of the extra tanks from Wartime Factory Refit or something, and provides more patrols and quick reaction forces. I get that it hardens our mining, but other things do that too.

Regarding manpower issues more tanks and other heavies allow you to use fewer infantry and light vehicles I believe, so more firepower for less/same manpower.And really more warmachines and gear would definitely conserve GDI soldiers lives overall.
Extra tanks require extra human crews in those tanks.
Exactly when human crewing is becoming a proportionately larger issue for GDI.
And you dont use tanks to guard harvesters either. Thats not how these things work.

To be fair, I doubt the Scrin were expecting to come under fire from their own weaponry. My working hypothesis is that Scrin catalyst weapons are designed as a cheap and easy way to blow up any offending leftover organisms from the "tiberium biosphere with mutants" phase that they expect to have largely ended by the time they arrive.
Maybe.
Cant think of why you'd need a specialty weapon to deal with leftovrs though.
Mothership weapons are apparently called catalyst cannon. Just found that out.

Probably just as well if we postpone a bit, although frankly tiberium has probably fucked up the Earth's climate to the point where the monsoon cycle no longer exists in recognizable form.
If Tiberium had materially fucked up the Earth's climate, I think we'd have noticed.

Especially GDI, given our population concentration on the coasts. If the ice caps melted and drowned the coastlines, for example, or supercharged hurricanes started hammering the coast of the East Coast BZ, or the Gulf Stream stopped warming Europe and dropped most of the BZs into an icebox.

Hell, given as Tiberium apparently spreads faster in warmer climes, we'd have seen material effects on the rate of Tib growth.
 
I notice people are putting improved tiberium containment facilities development into their plans. Does this have a benefit if we aren't stockpiling tiberium? Because we are burning through resources as soon as we get them so far.
 
I notice people are putting improved tiberium containment facilities development into their plans. Does this have a benefit if we aren't stockpiling tiberium? Because we are burning through resources as soon as we get them so far.
I think everyone is anticipating general improvements in Tiberium storage across the board, not just the ability to build up a reserve.

And it's nice to have in the back pocket, just in case we have to rush Processing Plants again.
 
@Ithillid Since it's come up a few times, how has global weather been affected by Tiberium? Do we still have to worry about things like monsoon season affecting Karachi?
Yeah, I know.
You still rolled the one year interregnum. So shush and accept your credit you mighty diceroller
I don't recall what you're referring to, sorry.
Those warlords big enough to have bases with power plants and Tib-upgraded power plants.
Thats a significant chunk of infrastructure that I suspect is beyond many, many warlords.
It doesn't seem like some extremely complicated setup if it's being connected to obsolete gas generators. It's also a standard upgrade in the game, and apparently the upgraded NOD powerplants give 45 power, while the GDI and the Scrin's power plants only give 40.
I notice people are putting improved tiberium containment facilities development into their plans. Does this have a benefit if we aren't stockpiling tiberium? Because we are burning through resources as soon as we get them so far.
It's a way to harden our network against sabotage, too. With the containment facilities, we can store unprocessed Tiberium if we end up having our processors sabotaged. Plus in general the more Tiberium tech we work work on, the better our understanding of Tiberium overall which my affect/allow future projects and tech.
 
*big informative table thing*
Awesome! Thanks for the table. (Average cost per dice for the full Tokyo option is 15.5 though.)
I'd been meaning to go back and grab a previously written up table and expand it to Tokyo 4, but I haven't had time.

But yes, I was in a rush and forgot to mention that it will take a bit long to do. But since we are currently stretching to activate all the dice, cheaper cost per dice could be helpful.

This does all fall down if a big Capitol Goods project appears in the next couple of quarters though. If that happens, we'll likely need Nuuk phase 4.
 
Awesome! Thanks for the table. (Average cost per dice for the full Tokyo option is 15.5 though.)
Thank you, fixed.

But yes, I was in a rush and forgot to mention that it will take a bit long to do. But since we are currently stretching to activate all the dice, cheaper cost per dice could be helpful.

This does all fall down if a big Capitol Goods project appears in the next couple of quarters though. If that happens, we'll likely need Nuuk phase 4.
On second thought, the dice requirements for Tokyo 4 aren't as problematic as we might think, since Tokyo 2 and 3 give out part of the payout sooner--in 15 dice or less.

If we put five dice in HI every quarter this year, we can complete Tokyo 3 and CCF 3 before Q1 2060, guaranteed, for 8 Capital Goods to spend on preparing for the Karachi Sprint. And we'll be no more than 16 dice, maximum, from the next 12 Capital Goods--and since we'll almost certainly have Philadelphia 5 by then, we'll be able to knock that out in less than a year in the worst case, and probably more like two to three quarters.

To do the same with Nuuks...either use the same five HI dice and get 4 Capital Goods guaranteed and median chance of full payout, or go all in for six HI dice a turn and guarantee the full payout.

EDIT: Full payout meaning Nuuks 2+3 for 20 Cap Goods, sorry.
 
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Any hardware we want for the Karachi Sprint has to be rolled out before we start, though.

If we go with Nuuks, we'll only have 9 Capital Goods--3 to start with, plus 4 from Nuuks 2 and 2 from Revy 3--with which to buy Vein Mines and military equipment before Q1 2060. Which means we pick between ICS this year and Zone Armor factories this year.
[shrug]

With that much wiggle room (four turns to get ready), we could probably get a point or two of spider cotton if we really wanted. I don't see it as really being a problem. Besides, if it's that big a deal, we just take Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors instead. More up-front Capital Goods that way.

Carbon emissions crashed as everyone went nuclear or electric or Tiberium, but large
As we have no reports of New York and the Netherlands drowning in rising oceans, you have to assume that shit is not materially worse climate-wise than it is IRL...

...

If Tiberium had materially fucked up the Earth's climate, I think we'd have noticed.

Especially GDI, given our population concentration on the coasts. If the ice caps melted and drowned the coastlines, for example, or supercharged hurricanes started hammering the coast of the East Coast BZ, or the Gulf Stream stopped warming Europe and dropped most of the BZs into an icebox.

Hell, given as Tiberium apparently spreads faster in warmer climes, we'd have seen material effects on the rate of Tib growth.
There's more to global climate than global temperature. We're talking about the monsoon cycle, which involves rainfall patterns in the Indian Ocean, and could well be altered by things that have no effect on global mean temperature.

Also, much of our population already lives in hardened structures that are built like bunkers by pre-tiberium standards. We routinely have to deal with ion storms that are at least commensurate with what hurricanes can do. Food is routinely grown in indoor facilities, so if we were having problems with droughts and floods causing crop failures we might hardly notice.

I'm not saying that this fully negates your point, but I think it mitigates the degree. Assuming "no climate change" seems a bit premature, both because you can have climate change not caused by global mean temperature change, and because GDI's infrastructure and way of life is already so heavily hardened and fortified against tiberium that significant global temperature changes might go unnoticed by comparison, until and unless you got a full-on Ice Age or a few meters of sea level rise.

I notice people are putting improved tiberium containment facilities development into their plans. Does this have a benefit if we aren't stockpiling tiberium? Because we are burning through resources as soon as we get them so far.
They're useful tech to have, seems to be the main thing. Plus, this turn we're basically sitting around shuffling our feet going "WELP" with regard to Tiberium dice, because we can't just continue slamming out phase after phase of mining operations. So to some extent we're tackling projects that were historically low-priority, just to clear them out of the way.
 
I don't recall what you're referring to, sorry.
My abject apologies.
I was confusing you with @Darkandus for some reason.

It doesn't seem like some extremely complicated setup if it's being connected to obsolete gas generators. It's also a standard upgrade in the game, and apparently the upgraded NOD powerplants give 45 power, while the GDI and the Scrin's power plants only give 40.
1)In the game, it requires either a Tech Lab (Tier 3 building, Tiberium Wars, unlocks Avatars, Vertigos, nukes, stealth tanks, Obelisks,Redeemer factory etc) or an Operations Center(Tier 2 building, Kane's Wrath, unlocks flame tanks, airfield, SAM turret,Black Hand, Tech Lab etc) to be able to perform that upgrade, even before considering the cost.

Those are the facilities that unlock higher tier technologies.
Thats stuff that is not available to your starter warlord who can only build bikes and buggies.

2)As I understand it in this quest? In order to operate Liquid T upgraded reactors, or even basic power plants?

You are looking at a warlord who has the resources to afford to build and operate a set of Nod power plants for power, has the trained personnel to run and maintain them, and can simultaneously shield his base from overhead observation and bombardmement by GDI satellites, whether by establishing disruption towers, building them deep underground and shielding the emissions, or putting it in a population center with enough civilians as human shields that GDI doesnt hit it.

Thats probably at least a midtier warlord.
There's more to global climate than global temperature. We're talking about the monsoon cycle, which involves rainfall patterns in the Indian Ocean, and could well be altered by things that have no effect on global mean temperature.

Also, much of our population already lives in hardened structures that are built like bunkers by pre-tiberium standards. We routinely have to deal with ion storms that are at least commensurate with what hurricanes can do. Food is routinely grown in indoor facilities, so if we were having problems with droughts and floods causing crop failures we might hardly notice.

I'm not saying that this fully negates your point, but I think it mitigates the degree. Assuming "no climate change" seems a bit premature, both because you can have climate change not caused by global mean temperature change, and because GDI's infrastructure and way of life is already so heavily hardened and fortified against tiberium that significant global temperature changes might go unnoticed by comparison, until and unless you got a full-on Ice Age or a few meters of sea level rise.
Couple nits to pick because pedantry.

1)Yes I know. But global temperatures are a major measure of how much energy there is in the global climate system, which in turn helps determine global rainfall patterns. The origins of the monsoon system in the Intertropical Convergence Zone, and the relation of that particular phenomena to the formation of tropical cyclones, means if anything had happened we'd have felt the impact immediately.

Its....unlikely that anything would have happened to the Asian monsoon system without having major global effects.

2)Ion storms are a thing in places of high Tib density, as they are apparently reliant on surface Tib concentrations.
That restricts them to Red Zones and areas of Deep Yellow, where there is sufficient surface Tiberium to create the conditions for Ion Storms. That in turn means we dont have to routinely deal with that shit, because our people dont live in those places.

Our soldiers might operate there, but our population does not.

3)If the California Blue Zone had to worry about the state setting itself on fire every year, if hurricanes were beginning to routinely pound the New England coastline, or more typhooms were hitting Japan, if people building tidal plants and offshore wind turbines had to worry about much more violent sea storms, you'd expect all this would have turned up before now.

Or maybe not. Game not sim.

Still, I'm not saying its zero.
Just that its not likely to have been significant enough to be worth taking note of.
Which says less than RL 2021 to me. IMO.
 
Again, I would strongly expect there to be major climate changes that aren't necessarily reflected in global mean temperature, and which while legitimately disastrous are practically a rounding error compared to the damage being done by tiberium on a regular basis. After all, tiberium and the wars connected to it have killed something like 3-4 billion people; what's a few hundred million deaths due to secondary climate change by comparison?

Furthermore, Treasury never gets more than the vaguest hints of any actual problem that exists at the level of a single Blue Zone, unless that problem happens to involve Nod, or a major Treasury operation fucking up.

Argument from absence of evidence just isn't very strong in this case.
 
[shrug]

With that much wiggle room (four turns to get ready), we could probably get a point or two of spider cotton if we really wanted. I don't see it as really being a problem. Besides, if it's that big a deal, we just take Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors instead. More up-front Capital Goods that way.
All of our big Cap Goods projects require a fair bit of runup, and we're not likely to be able to spare more than one or two free dice a quarter thanks to Philadelphia 5 and the massive general military buildup.

And we need vein mines. Six of them, maybe five if offshore Tiberium Harvesting doesn't flop. That's what we need to fund Karachi Sprinting without setting aside everything else. That's not a CG outlay we can Spider Cotton out of.

Four quarters is enough, with room for error, to complete one of Heavy Industrial Sectors or Tokyo 2+3 for eight Capital Goods, but only if we put a free die into Heavy Industry starting this quarter. Of the two, only Tokyo gives the opportunity for further Capital Goods--and it secures another supplier of computer chips, something that shouldn't be far from our minds after Manchester.
 
Ehh. I'll bear that in mind- but if you check my most recent draft plan, note that it does put a Free die on heavy Industry, precisely so that we can get three dice on Blue Zone Heavy Industry and have a prayer of finishing it next turn (2059Q2) and certainty of having it the turn after that (Q3, in time for Philadelphia Phase 5 to come online).

We may have a brief income crunch while struggling to fund all the new dice, but that's okay as long as we work hard to make progress in the areas that really count.
 
Good point on the monsoons. I just wonder how much the global weather has changed from the massive Tiberium glaciers and other geographical changes. I wouldn't think it would be enough to effect the monsoons, but it is still a thought.

I'd imagine keeping the Tiberium Algae out of Lake's and Public Drinking Supplies would've been a logistical nightmare during Storm Season.

The fungus bars happened in Q2 2050, which was before Parliament and political parties were introduced in Q3 2052. Despite the narrative referring to Granger as 'one of the most unpopular men in the administration' he didn't lose any political power despite thousands of people dying due to Tiberium laced fungus bars.

So really it's hard to say.

Granger should've really added some flavourful Kudzu Crisps to their Diet. Maybe our Citizens wouldn't have complained so much about the dull taste of Fungi. :p

Scrin were not expecting to fight anyone, but they still brought combat troops.
It depends on how competent we think these guys are.

Kane apparently didn't think they were very competent at all since he called them a "cult of addiction in the guise of a species". He was obviously banking on their leadership being wayyy too greedy and overconfident. Plus they probably needed some Troops to deal with any withering Populations like the Mutants left over from the Tiberium choking their world to death.

Then there's the GDI Intelligence database report from Tib Wars - Alien Origins, Connections to the Tacitus.

"The transmissions recorded from the invasion force seem to be patterned in a similar way to the data structure in the Tacitus. This leads us to believe that the invaders are the Scrin, or perhaps some faction thereof. It is clear upon closer examination that this invasion force demonstrates acute differences from the source of the Tacitus in dialect and physical form. Perhaps they shared some distant connection, or there was some ancient contact between their cultures?

One transmission we decoded using our most advanced decryption computers indicated alien chatter regarding another alien race they had previously encountered. We were unable to translate the word for the other alien race, but the encryption computer returned the terms brother, ascended, enemy and Scrin. This casts some confusion on the nature of the invaders, as they share a multitude of attributes with what we have come to know as the Scrin. It seems unlikely that this is the very same alien race that brought the Tacitus to Earth, but the connection is undeniable.

If this is true, we should consider the Tacitus our most valuable military asset. We must somehow find a way to unlock its secrets.

GDI InOps FLASH Report - Dr. A. Bass, PHD, Director of Extraterrestrial Research"

There's allot of hints in 3 and KW that the 'Scrin' we meet are either a competitor or distant relative (or relatives) of the Alien Species that left the Tacitus on Earth. Both Traveller and Reaper's Database entries imply they've had combat with other Rival Empires and are experts at combating local populations. And why send two of your best Cadres of Troops if you're expecting a routine Mining Expedition on a Dead Planet? Seems like they planned to fight whatever was left, but were too over confident. Perhaps they were preparing to potentially fight over their new Prize if these Rivals eventually sent their own expeditions?


Maybe.
Cant think of why you'd need a specialty weapon to deal with leftovrs though.
Mothership weapons are apparently called catalyst cannon. Just found that out.

Well the BZ Population of Berne found out what a Catatyst Cannon was when it turned their city centre into a corpse field packed with Blue Tiberium.
The Catalyst Cannon is unique among the 'Catalyst Archetype' in that it doesn't just set off Tiberium, like the conventionally launched Warheads that NOD uses. It can also cause buildings created via MCV to chain react too. Which could have some useless implications on the materials refined from Tiberium, or that since the Motherships are actually piloted by 'Foremen' their weapons guidance systems could be advanced enough to specifically target them by focusing the energies in someway. Either can be explained away as 'we wanted a cool reference to Independence Day'.
 
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Ouch, my sympathies. I must say though, I don't see a practical difference between that and what you are doing? You are still quoting me and responding to those quotes, you just aren't using the quote function... well here's hoping that's enough for the mods, somehow.

Really I dunno why that rule exists, do they want us to respond to each point with a separate post or something? Or to not quote what point we are responding to? Ah well they surely have good reasons.

I have been making posts like that for... basically forever now and noone has seemed to mind (is that the right tense? It should be but it looks weird) except for once way back in TBG I think so I won't be changing how I post I don't think.

Spaghetti Posting is an issue because of how the formatting of the site handles it. A lot of people stop reading/participating in threads with spaghetti posting so it was banned under Rule 4:

A number of other behaviors - while not necessarily offensive to discussion - are disruptive because they make discussion more difficult or raise the barrier to entry for others. Posting long spools of quotes snipped out of posts and responded to individually - "spaghetti posting" - is confusing and frustrating for users who are just browsing. In a similar way, certain sourcing practices - articles or videos in a foreign language without a translation or explanation, articles behind a paywall, videos without text, and so on - make it very difficult for users to participate in a conversation. If you are intending to rely on these kinds of materials, you need to make an effort to identify, isolate, and summarize the relevant parts in your post.
 
All of our big Cap Goods projects require a fair bit of runup, and we're not likely to be able to spare more than one or two free dice a quarter thanks to Philadelphia 5 and the massive general military buildup.

And we need vein mines. Six of them, maybe five if offshore Tiberium Harvesting doesn't flop. That's what we need to fund Karachi Sprinting without setting aside everything else. That's not a CG outlay we can Spider Cotton out of.

Four quarters is enough, with room for error, to complete one of Heavy Industrial Sectors or Tokyo 2+3 for eight Capital Goods, but only if we put a free die into Heavy Industry starting this quarter. Of the two, only Tokyo gives the opportunity for further Capital Goods--and it secures another supplier of computer chips, something that shouldn't be far from our minds after Manchester.
If we do a MARV hub on Mecca - which we should probably do before the Karachi push, just to be sure its secure - we could cut that down to 5(4) Dice. If we sprint the Karachi one, we might be able to get that a bit lower. And once Philly is complete, we might be able to take the time to do some orbital mines and cut that a bit lower. We are probably still have to do some Vein Mines, but it's not an all consuming necessity.
 
If we do a MARV hub on Mecca - which we should probably do before the Karachi push, just to be sure its secure - we could cut that down to 5(4) Dice. If we sprint the Karachi one, we might be able to get that a bit lower. And once Philly is complete, we might be able to take the time to do some orbital mines and cut that a bit lower. We are probably still have to do some Vein Mines, but it's not an all consuming necessity.
Vein Mines are our quickest income generator at the moment, though, offshore aside.

Karachi doesn't give us income. Mechanically the only benefit is logistics.

MARVs...I don't know if we can plant one in Mecca without consequence, but we can plant one in the Himalayas ahead of the Sprint. I forget how much RpT a Blue Zone/Yellow Zone Super MARV fleet generates.
 
Vein Mines are our quickest income generator at the moment, though, offshore aside.

Karachi doesn't give us income. Mechanically the only benefit is logistics.

MARVs...I don't know if we can plant one in Mecca without consequence, but we can plant one in the Himalayas ahead of the Sprint. I forget how much RpT a Blue Zone/Yellow Zone Super MARV fleet generates.
I was referring to the planned Karachi MARV hub. And I'm pretty sure that even in the loosest definition of medium term, the consequences of not parking a fleet of gigatanks on top of one of our primary economic weaknesses outweigh the short term risk of Nod deciding to take drastic action while they still have a chance, especially given what happened the last time we built a MARV hub.
 
Vein Mines are our quickest income generator at the moment, though, offshore aside.

Karachi doesn't give us income. Mechanically the only benefit is logistics.

MARVs...I don't know if we can plant one in Mecca without consequence, but we can plant one in the Himalayas ahead of the Sprint. I forget how much RpT a Blue Zone/Yellow Zone Super MARV fleet generates.
Fifteen in a Yellow Zone. I suspect five in a Blue Zone.

I was referring to the planned Karachi MARV hub. And I'm pretty sure that even in the loosest definition of medium term, the consequences of not parking a fleet of gigatanks on top of one of our primary economic weaknesses outweigh the short term risk of Nod deciding to take drastic action while they still have a chance, especially given what happened the last time we built a MARV hub.
Basically, we don't want there to be MARVs literally at Mecca, but there's probably a location where we could emplace a hub and just coincidentally have MARVs tooling around a lot in the desert areas 100-200 kilometers from the holy cities.
 
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