Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Simon_Jester · Nov 13, 2021

HousePet said:
Do you mean 'do the fusion plants in parallel' since we only likely need another 3 dice to finish the next phase and should be using Free dice here?
BZHIS are a reasonable choice. Not sure why I forgot to mention them.
I am leery about trying to beeline for Nuuk. It locks us into doing 3 dice on more fusion power and ~16 dice on Nuuk. So basically we spend the whole year hoping that nothing goes wrong, as we only have a limited supply of free dice if things go wrong.

I don't really understand why you think this is a problem- aside, maybe, from lack of immediate Capital Goods payoff since with "beeline Nuuk" we only get +4 Capital Goods at 480 Progress and no more until 1120 Progress.

What, exactly, would we do differently in Heavy Industry if "things go wrong?" We need more Capital goods, both for practical reasons and for Plan goal reasons. There is no realistic way to get them other than to do big Heavy Industry projects. About the only thing I could see causing a change of plans in Heavy Industry would be if we felt compelled to rush-finish a project doing something else because of sabotage to our industrial base.

But... having to stop rolling Nuuk dice for a while in a case like that wouldn't automatically screw us over! Remember that this "by the end of the year" goal of yours is kind of arbitrary; it only really matters in the context of the elections and voters mostly don't care whether we finish a facility like Nuuk on time or not

So yes, I'm at least seriously considering a plan where we do effectively nothing other than Nuuk and the third phase of fusion plants in Heavy Industry for all or nearly all of 2059. How do you foresee this being a specific problem? Are you worried about something other than not having enough Capital Goods to cover immediate needs in 2059 before we hit Nuuk Phase 3?

Should be fine if we spread them out across the whole year. After all, they aren't great for boosting income, which is a higher priority right now.
Our only major other spend is likely to be Nuuk or an early Zone Armor Factory. Both of which we can easily plan around. Being able to get another 16 Energy when we need it really helps.

I mean... yes, that's why I'm proposing to do a round of fusion plants in 2059Q1, or at least get them close enough to done that it's easy to finish them off. I'm not seeing how your argument works; spreading a series of Energy-hungry factories out across the whole year doesn't make them less Energy-hungry. You still have to pay for them all somewhere, at some time. Which means that unless we're prepared to run at near-zero Energy surplus capacity during the Nod dogpile, we need that third wave of fusion plants, and we need them some time this turn or maybe next turn.

Frontloading dice is not required for making rational decisions based on the rolls. If the first 7 dice fall short, we can throw 12 dice at it the next turn. 7 dice is already slightly frontloading it.
The stabilizer also demonstrated that there are potential issues with throwing too many dice at something.

The stabilizer demonstrated problems with unprecedented frontloading. We've now spent several dice on the Philadelphia for at least two turns in a row without major incident, as far as I can tell. Unless seven dice turns out to be a problem this turn, I see no reason not to spend eight or nine next turn if we can spare them, in order to be more confident of actually completing the project on time.

Because yes, in theory we can spend 12 dice next turn in response to a disappointing result from the first seven, but such an action causes exactly the problems with "throwing too many dice" that you talk about, only more so, because it's by definition a hasty and sudden increase, often resulting in deliberate inefficiency because we want to be assured of success.

Remember that this is the fifth phase of the project; there is not going to be rollover. The ideal world for this project is one where we get to about 1200/1425 in two turns, so we can just spend about five dice and be assured of success. The more Progress we have to make up in the last turn of the project, the more Resources we are in effect wasting to get that certainty.

NickAragua said:
Main thing I don't like about ICS is that it eats capital goods and energy. Shuttles and rail network constructions do not.

Given how valuable the project is, a couple of points of Energy really don't matter anymore... but the Capital Goods consumption does matter since we're scraping for every point until we get Nuuk Phase 3 or something else that's similarly rewarding done.

Dmol8 · Nov 13, 2021

KnightDisciple said:
Right then, let us see what the vore-rock does today.

You do not roll that roll again.

BoSPaladin said:
Honest question. What's the challenge with Sced quest? Whenever I see a post pop up in thread I just skim past it. Space stuff great.

but it's got multiple interlocking problems. It's smaller and lower stakes than the 'main' quest. This is problematic in both directions. On the one hand, stuff done in Sced quest barely has any impact at all on the main quest. Save except for certain space stuff I'd like to do seems gated behind sced quest, or are offloaded for it to handle. On the flip side, the main quest can casually dump a bunch of resources on sced quest, which is a small amount for the main quest, but a massive influx of resources for the sidequest.

Absolutely sced quest shouldn't be booting tonnes of resources into the main quest. But that has the effect that stuff gated behind sced, doesn't seem to be as impactful as it could if it was being handled by the main quest. On the other hand there's the argument that sced quest is handling stuff too minor for the main quest to deal with, but then that runs into the question of why then should I care about sced quest?

Returning to my first point. What's the challenge? I see sced quest is doing stuff... but it boils down to did they complete the project or not? If yes, project done, onto next part/phase/next project. If not 'shrug' carry on next turn until it's done. There's no opposition I can see. Just every now and again main dumps resources on them and they work away until projects done and or they need more funding.

The technical writing is fine. But any 'quest' part seems... "Pick number to go up. If number reaches goal, other number goes up." To me it's like watching paint dry. Either stuff finishes, or it doesn't.... and then it gets finished later.

No offence. As I said, the writing is fine. But the quest part just seems... 'there'. I've got no interest in it beyond space stuff happens and some of it gets referenced in main. But I normally love space stuff, and yet sced quest is like watching paint dry. It happens slowly and is a chore that's done... Sure at the end of it you have pretty walls, but do we really have to watch the process of numbers slowly ticking up? Wouldn't it work better as just a story/series of omake's?

Sorry again. Just. To me sced quest isn't fun. I'd like it to be fun, but so far it's just not been. It's something I skim through as a chore And I couldn't imagine voting for it, what would be the point? There's no pressure. everyting will get done sooner or later, it just seems to me to be picking which is done first.

The challenge comes from the interactions SCED quest has with the main quest. Like we just developed Havoc, but if we want space mechs we need to develop Space Havoc in SCED first.

So this side quest is just @BOTcommander taking one of the other treasury candidates and having him run his own private space force until it became the space force. Now SCED as an organization isn't big enough for NOD to go after it yet, but as it grows it will be.

So basically take SCED quest as the tutorial for how to build our space infrastructure in our main quest that occasionally affects the main quest and will start to fully affect it once the training wheels come off.

HousePet · Nov 13, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
How do you foresee this being a specific problem? Are you worried about something other than not having enough Capital Goods to cover immediate needs in 2059 before we hit Nuuk Phase 3?

So if we plan to complete something that needs the Capitol Goods from Nuuk, but then Philly rolls badly. So we divert free dice to Philly, causing Nuuk to finish late. Meaning that whatever we wanted those Capitol Goods for then has to be delayed.
Not likely to be a major issue. Just something to consider for long-term commitments.
I'm still flipping back and forward between BZHIS and Nuuk. Nuuk just feels slightly too slow.

Simon_Jester said:
I'm not seeing how your argument works; spreading a series of Energy-hungry factories out across the whole year doesn't make them less Energy-hungry. You still have to pay for them all somewhere, at some time.

You appeared to be arguing that the factories were an issue because I hadn't said I'd aim for building more Fusion in Q1. I had the next Fusion phase pencilled in for Q3, yet for some reason you went italics at me like I hadn't accounted for the cost... I'm hardly going to commit to 12 Energy worth of projects before Q3. I'm not seeing how you think I wasn't paying for them.
(On review, I'd probably go for Q2 for the next phase of Fusion Plants anyway.)

Simon_Jester said:
Remember that this is the fifth phase of the project; there is not going to be rollover. The ideal world for this project is one where we get to about 1200/1425 in two turns, so we can just spend about five dice and be assured of success. The more Progress we have to make up in the last turn of the project, the more Resources we are in effect wasting to get that certainty.

If you look carefully, I didn't actually assign the extra Free Dice from Philly 4 anywhere. I'm fine with that going towards Orbital.

Seriously, this was just me taking a general look at what we can (and/or need to) complete over approximately the next year. There is no need for this level of nit-picking. It wasn't even in plan format, or costed (which might be the bigger issue).

Simon_Jester said:
but the Capital Goods consumption does matter since we're scraping for every point until we get Nuuk Phase 3 or something else that's similarly rewarding done.

Reykjavik (got the spelling right without looking for once!) has us covered here. Unless we assume that Reykjavik has us covered for Vein Mining. In which case it still isn't really a problem, as even phase 2 Tokyo can cover this.

Overall, I think we are in a pretty good place regarding Capitol Goods. Sure, it could be better. But what we are talking about now is how we pay for more big projects and have a strategic reserve. We've made a lot of progress since the start of this quest.

Simon_Jester · Nov 13, 2021

HousePet said:
So if we plan to complete something that needs the Capitol Goods from Nuuk, but then Philly rolls badly. So we divert free dice to Philly, causing Nuuk to finish late. Meaning that whatever we wanted those Capitol Goods for then has to be delayed.
Not likely to be a major issue. Just something to consider for long-term commitments.
I'm still flipping back and forward between BZHIS and Nuuk. Nuuk just feels slightly too slow.

On the other hand, the payoff's a lot better.

Also, you're describing a fairly specific scenario, one I don't think is worth worrying about. Given how valuable Philadelphia Phase 5 is, it's probably worth more to us than whatever this other thing is that ends up being delayed for lack of Capital Goods.

You appeared to be arguing that the factories were an issue because I hadn't said I'd aim for building more Fusion in Q1. I had the next Fusion phase pencilled in for Q3, yet for some reason you went italics at me like I hadn't accounted for the cost... I'm hardly going to commit to 12 Energy worth of projects before Q3. I'm not seeing how you think I wasn't paying for them.
(On review, I'd probably go for Q2 for the next phase of Fusion Plants anyway.)

I italicize a lot, because I tend to italicize words that I'd put emphasis on in spoken language.

My fundamental point is that we might as well have the Energy surplus sooner rather than later and not need to worry about interrupting our Capital Goods push to build more power plants in midyear. It only takes three more dice to get that third phase of fusion reactors done, after all.

If you look carefully, I didn't actually assign the extra Free Dice from Philly 4 anywhere. I'm fine with that going towards Orbital.

Seriously, this was just me taking a general look at what we can (and/or need to) complete over approximately the next year. There is no need for this level of nit-picking. It wasn't even in plan format, or costed (which might be the bigger issue).

Okay, but my real point is about the idea expressed ("we don't need to invest heavily on the first turn because we can just invest heavily on the second to compensate") It's better to invest heavily in dice on the first turn, then be able to budget more precisely later in the project.

Enerael · Nov 13, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
We could, but it's very likely that we'll want to spend that Energy anyway.

Blue Zone Arcologies Phase 3 (-2 Energy)
Freeze Dried Food Plants (-1 Energy)
Railgun Harvester Factories (-2 Energy per factory)
Pacifier MAV Deployment (-2 Energy)
ULRS Phase 2 (-2 Energy)
Shell Plants Phase 4 (-2 Energy)
Ground Force Zone Armor Factories (-4 Energy, -1 Capital Goods per factory)

All of these are projects people have talked about wanting to do in the next few turns, circumstances permitting. Putting ourselves on tight Energy rations is going to be restrictive and unpleasant, especially since other military deployment projects we might get would probably also consume Energy.

Better to just put three dice into fusion plants up front and not have to worry about this for a while.

Besides, your suggested approach only gets us one round of the war factory refits, which doesn't net us the real prize- the extra 1d2 Military dice. We'd have to keep going with Nuuk, and it's needing to complete the third, 640-point phase of the project (likely to take 2-3 turns all by itself) that really makes it burdensome to be on a tight Energy budget.

Hm, it does seem likely that another fusion plant will be needed. Still, I don't see why we should do it before getting those CapGs and Wartime Factory Refits. We also have that energy stockpile just in case, as much as its best avoided.

No it would get two. +4 CapG from Nuuk Phase 2, +2 from Reykjavik Phase 2, +3 that we have right now for +9, so enough while leaving us with +1. Which is why I avoided Vein Mines and why I mentioned that CapGs would be very tight.

We don't have to postpone all the factories until we get a Phase 4 myomer plant. Why would we do that? We can build one or two at the higher cost, just to get things rolling, if we really want to. The real obstacles to doing any Zone Armor factories are:

1) It's gonna cost about 3.5 Military dice and those are in a lot of demand.
2) It's gonna cost -4 Energy and while we can get more Energy easily, it's a nuisance.
3) It's gonna cost -1 Capital Goods and those are scarce.

As to your questions:

...

What do you mean by it costing 15R/turn?

This was a typo on my part; I meant 15 R/die. The point being that I don't think we're actually going to rapid-deploy the caffeinated kudzu fast enough to justify prioritizing it this turn. I think waiting one more turn is okay, as long as we're making clear effort on the problem. No, I don't expect any kind of grant.

Now, I respect the viewpoint of "caffeine now dammit," believe me, but... well. Again, we have a lot going on, is all. Getting the perennials out is a good sign of good faith.

As to why it saves resources, it's because I expect the caffeinated kudzu plantations to be expensive per die, much like the entari deployment and spider cotton plantations. To be fair, it's kudzu, the hard part is getting it NOT to grow all over everything, so maybe I'm overestimating the scope of the problem and it's actually a 5 R/die project in which case I will eat my words.

Well yes building just one factory without the discount would not matter much, but I had hoped for more than that sooner. Having made a plan though I can see that the dice are just not there though, or CapGs.

Coffee plants take three to four years to reach maturity. This is not fast enough considering that Kudzu seems easily doable in two quarters.

I don't think it would be so expensive, but I suppose that it might if the plant needs special environments or something so possible. Either way, why not develop it and see? We can get both the next stage of perennials and the development done this turn easily.

Well the thing is, we don't actually have a lot of Plan commitments involving Agriculture dice. And even trying to fulfill our +RpT commitments means that our budget by mid-Plan is going to have to be something like 900 RpT, getting to the point where we can afford to activate dice in areas that aren't super-necessary.

At which point spending roughly three Agriculture dice with nothing better to do, and 45 R, to get +1 Capital Goods, starts seeming a bit more attractive as a way to hurry things along.

It is my belief is that if Agriculture dice become that useless the departments resources should be cut and moved elsewhere. Besides lack of political will I can't think of a reason why that would not be done, in universe. But I suppose that we probably need to leave 1-2 Dice in there so we could use those I suppose yes.

BOTcommander · Nov 13, 2021

BoSPaladin said:
Honest question. What's the challenge with Sced quest? Whenever I see a post pop up in thread I just skim past it. Space stuff great.

but it's got multiple interlocking problems. It's smaller and lower stakes than the 'main' quest. This is problematic in both directions. On the one hand, stuff done in Sced quest barely has any impact at all on the main quest. Save except for certain space stuff I'd like to do seems gated behind sced quest, or are offloaded for it to handle. On the flip side, the main quest can casually dump a bunch of resources on sced quest, which is a small amount for the main quest, but a massive influx of resources for the sidequest.

Absolutely sced quest shouldn't be booting tonnes of resources into the main quest. But that has the effect that stuff gated behind sced, doesn't seem to be as impactful as it could if it was being handled by the main quest. On the other hand there's the argument that sced quest is handling stuff too minor for the main quest to deal with, but then that runs into the question of why then should I care about sced quest?

Returning to my first point. What's the challenge? I see sced quest is doing stuff... but it boils down to did they complete the project or not? If yes, project done, onto next part/phase/next project. If not 'shrug' carry on next turn until it's done. There's no opposition I can see. Just every now and again main dumps resources on them and they work away until projects done and or they need more funding.

The technical writing is fine. But any 'quest' part seems... "Pick number to go up. If number reaches goal, other number goes up." To me it's like watching paint dry. Either stuff finishes, or it doesn't.... and then it gets finished later.

No offence. As I said, the writing is fine. But the quest part just seems... 'there'. I've got no interest in it beyond space stuff happens and some of it gets referenced in main. But I normally love space stuff, and yet sced quest is like watching paint dry. It happens slowly and is a chore that's done... Sure at the end of it you have pretty walls, but do we really have to watch the process of numbers slowly ticking up? Wouldn't it work better as just a story/series of omake's?

Sorry again. Just. To me sced quest isn't fun. I'd like it to be fun, but so far it's just not been. It's something I skim through as a chore And I couldn't imagine voting for it, what would be the point? There's no pressure. everyting will get done sooner or later, it just seems to me to be picking which is done first.

The challenge got fucking destroyed by Pathfinder. There is a reason I had to emergency slim down the quest when the SCED got the damn thing. No more planning a Mars or Mercury mission years or months in advance and wait for an transfer window. Like what challenges does NASA have to face? Budget limitations, technical limitations and launch windows, that's about it. The SCED does not have to worry about transfer windows anymore, period. Ultimately SCEDquest of to small scale to be effected by things the same way the main quest is. They are a semi-civilian branch of Space Force, thus uninteresting for Nod. They have a number of sites in the deep blue zones, thus don't care much for the spread of Tiberium. If you have ideas to raise the challenge rating, say so, but I don't consider just: "I find the quest too low-stakes to care" a valid criticism in this case, because what else am I supposed to do, the SCED is more or less future NASA with a overpowered spaceship?

The subquest interacts little with the main quest and is mechanically simple on purpose, I have my own full fledged quest where most of my energy goes. By now I could probably negotiate a deeper integration with Ithillid, but I don't particularly care at the moment. Lets wait and see how and if this changes in the SequelQuest. The +5, +10, +15 Omake bonus mechanics work on purpose this way, because ithillid wants to limit the impact Omakes have on the quest, something which I try to respect with this Omake subquest.

Would it work better as a series of normal Omakes, maybe, but that would put me in charge of GDIs space exploration and I find it funny that what the SCED does next is crowd-sourced by interested readers, which I have enough of to keep going.

Ultimately I feel a little insulted. You don't have to care. I don't want you to care. The signifier "This quest is supposed to be fun" is exactly to keep people from complaining about its existence. Again, if you can think about what opposition the SCED could have I am all ears. But there isn't. Space exploration is boring. Its about scanning rocks and waiting. A lot of people have made their points on why they like this fun little project I write and update on my own volition and thanks to them. If you don't like it, fine, either give suggestions on how I could do it better or just don't read, don't participate.

Simon_Jester · Nov 13, 2021

Enerael said:
Hm, it does seem likely that another fusion plant will be needed. Still, I don't see why we should do it before getting those CapGs and Wartime Factory Refits. We also have that energy stockpile just in case, as much as its best avoided.

No it would get two. +4 CapG from Nuuk Phase 2, +2 from Reykjavik Phase 2, +3 that we have right now for +9, so enough while leaving us with +1. Which is why I avoided Vein Mines and why I mentioned that CapGs would be very tight.

It is almost certainly a bad idea for us to spend down to 0 or +1 Capital Goods when we know some of the warlords are launching deep strike attacks against major heavy-industrial nodes. Like, we want the war factory refits but we don't need them that badly.

Now, in fairness to you, there's nothing actually stopping us from slow-walking Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3), putting two dice on it now and two on an appropriate Capital Goods project of our choosing, then one fusion power die per turn until we actually get the plants. It might be more efficient to do so if we're trying to front-load Capital Goods a bit more, although it certainly isn't a bad thing if we get rollover onto Phase 4 of the fusion plants.

It might be more appropriate for us to budget the Capital Goods from the projects you describe as something like:

-1 for Super Orcas
-2 for a Zone Armor factory
-2 for ICS
Leave +4 as a buffer against minor economic damage (won't be enough if Nod nukes North Boston or something, but it'll insulate us against lesser damage)

Then we slam out the last two phases of the war factory refits when we get a major Capital Goods boost from Nuuk Phase 3.

...

Now, I get how you were hoping to do a ton of power armor factories, but... Remember the Governor-class cruisers? How building those cruiser yards was a big deal and took something like two years of in-story time to accomplish? The cost of building the Governors is very similar to the cost of building zone armor factories, just in terms of the dice and resource cost to physically create the things. Ultimately the capital goods cost won't stop us, because by the end of this Plan we will have plenty of Capital Goods... but we're not there yet, and there's a ton of other stuff we've committed to do with the military too. So yeah, you're not wrong there.

Coffee plants take three to four years to reach maturity. This is not fast enough considering that Kudzu seems easily doable in two quarters.

The point of getting Perennials done quickly is that it's cheap and will provide more beneficial impact for the Four Year Plan's consumer goods goals if we do it sooner rather than later. I know there's demand for caffeinated kudzu and to be very blunt and direct about that, we are going to do that soon. But this isn't a massive mismanagement disaster area; there are arguments for either sequencing.

It is my belief is that if Agriculture dice become that useless the departments resources should be cut and moved elsewhere. Besides lack of political will I can't think of a reason why that would not be done, in universe. But I suppose that we probably need to leave 1-2 Dice in there so we could use those I suppose yes.

The big reason is that if GDI ever really needs to worry about its food supply, it needs to. Earth is only a marginally habitable planet at this point, and food fit for human consumption generally has to be grown in sealed environments that require extensive monitoring and regulation. There's a minimum practical size and bureaucratic capacity that we can afford to shrink the Agriculture department to before we create potential problems for ourselves. Furthermore, we do typically have quite a bit to do with Agriculture in each Plan so far; we don't consistently activate every single die, but that's mostly due to budget constraints. We really did need those dice at various points in the Plan, and cutting back to two dice per turn wouldn't necessarily do us a lot of favors. We'd have to be very careful about our commitments, probably more careful than is practical.

Mortis · Nov 13, 2021

[ ] Plan Going Up
Infrastructure (5 dice) 5/5 100R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 3) (Progress 95/650: 15 resources per die) 2 Dice 30 R 2/4.5~
-[] Communal Housing Experiments (Progress 72/140: 10 resources per die) 1 Die 10 R 74%
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) (Progress 0/200: 30 resources per die) 2 Dice 60 R 18%
Heavy Industry (4 dice) 4/4 80R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 3) (Progress 125/300: 20 resources per Die) 3 Dice 60 R 86%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1) (Progress 0/160: 20 resources per die) 1 Die 20 R 1/2.5~
Light and Chemical Industry (4 dice) 4/4 80R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) (Progress 0/320: 20 resources per die) 4 Dice 80 R 28%
Agriculture (3 dice) 2/3 20R
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2) (Progress 291/350: 10 resources per die) 2 Dice 10 R 99%
Tiberium (6 dice) 6/6 130R 10 PS
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) (Progress 74/180: 25 resources per die) 2 Dice 50 R 92%
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment
--[ ] Red Zone 6 (Progress 0/120: 30 resources per die) 1 Die 30 R 21%
-[] Railgun Harvester Factories
--[ ] Dandong (Progress 0/70 : 10 resources per die) 1 Die 10 R 71%
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations (Progress 0/200: 20 resources per die) 2 Dice 40 R 10 PS 22%
Orbital (5 dice + 3 free die) 8/5 160R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) (Progress 32/1425: 20 resources per die) 8 Dice 160 R 8/16-24?
Services (4 dice) 3/4 45R
-[] Green Zone Teacher Colleges (Progress 149/200: 5 resources per die) 1 Die 5 R 86%
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development (Progress 0/60: 20 resources per die) 1 Die 20 R 78%
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development (Progress 0/60: 20 resources per die) 1 Die 20 R 78%
Military (6 dice + 3 free dice) 9/5 R
-[] Pacifier Mobile Artillery Vehicle Deployment (Progress 90/120: 10 resources per die) 1 Die 10 R 100%
-[] Naval Defense Laser Refits (Progress 270/330: 15 resources per die) 1 Die 15 R 74%
-[] Tube Artillery Deployment (Progress 184/200: 15 resources per die) 1 Die 15 R 100%
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) (Progress 3/300: 10 resources per die) 6 Dice 60 R 93%
-[] Security Review 1 Die Automatic
Bureaucracy (3 dice) 3/3 0R
-[] Security Reviews
--[] Military 3 Dice 100%

To explain:
This should finish off the communal housing and have the arcologies in range to be finished with 2-3 dice next turn. It gets started on the suborbital shuttle program, which doesn't require capital goods in a period where we'll be short on them for a while, and provides a source of logistics that's difficult for NOD to blockade.
Another round of fusion plants is completed, which should provide us with a considerable surplus for the next few turns. 1 die makes a start on Nuuk, but real progress is left for future turns.
Phase 3 of Reykjavik is started and possibly finished, which provides greater security and an additional +2 capgoods this turn or the next, which we very much need.
One phase of Perennials is completed and progress made on a second, which will provide massive amounts of consumer goods for this plan if completed early enough. Developing and deploying the kudzu is to expensive to do soon when we have so many other expensive projects to do. Perennials still provides coffee.
We just lost three points of abatement and are going to lose more in two turns. As such, a new phase of containment lines is built along with the only red zone inhibitor we have access to. It also builds another railgun harvester factory, which we will want some but not all of with the new tech incoming, and starts the offshore harvesting to see how hood that option is.
The work on stage 5 Philadelphia is frontloaded, so if we roll poorly we can continue investing up to 8-9 dice in Q3 2059 to ensure it completes, but if it goes well we could only need 4-5 dice on Philadelphia that turn. This could let us build 2-3 stages of Columbia before elections and get some people actually living in space. This'll both significantly boost our allies in Starbound and is the only way that we can begin to deal with our demographic woes.
Services finishes Litvinov's other pet project and does some nice research.
Military finishes off last turns projects and gets some actual shells for our artillery. For all the people who are worried about major offensives from NOD, this is how we allow our forces to fight for long periods, and lets us finally build new fortress towns to secure our supply lines and harvesting operations.
Opinions?

Derpmind · Nov 13, 2021

Enerael said:
Hm, it does seem likely that another fusion plant will be needed. Still, I don't see why we should do it before getting those CapGs and Wartime Factory Refits. We also have that energy stockpile just in case, as much as its best avoided.

We want to avoid situations like this turn, where we needed to rush out a phase of fusion with our limited free dice so we didn't run out of Energy. We risked a critfail giving us (global) power outages, and it diverted our free dice and so limited our ability to do other projects. It's far better to keep ahead of the problem with a healthy surplus so we simply don't need to worry about about it.

Simon_Jester · Nov 13, 2021

So, I've tried to develop three versions of my plan.

The first will have something genuinely unusual- a Fortress Towns focus. The idea is that we put enough dice into the next phases of Fortress Towns and Shell Plants that both projects will be close to completion (roughly 50/50 chance of at least one completing) and can be polished off easily in 2059Q2. We can do this without severely compromising work on the arcologies or other military priorities, whereas really hammering on either would require sacrificing from those somewhat.

Another notable change is that I'm scaling back to two dice on fusion power. We don't need the Phase 3 fusion plants online in 2059Q1, so there's no hurry, and we might as well frontload the Capital Goods project a bit more.

This plan also pushes in the direction of the sensor refits, but does not work on OSRCT or other space militarization priorities, nor does it do the Super Orca.

...

TENTATIVE 2059Q1 BUDGET:
740 R, 7 Free dice
740/740 Resources spent
7/7 Free Dice allocated

[] Draft Plan Fortify the Borders

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 80 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 3) 302/650 (2 Dice, 30 R) (2/3.5 median)
-[] Communal Housing Experiments 72/140 (1 Die, 10 R, -5 PS) (74% chance)
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 3) 25/200 (2 Dice, 40 R) (37% chance)

Heavy Industry 4/4 Dice 90 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3) 125/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (35% chance)
-[] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 0/500 (2 Dice, 50 R) (2/7.5 median)

Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 80 R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 4/320 (4 Dice, 80 R) (28% chance)

Agriculture 3/3 Dice 30 R
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2) 291/350 (3 Dice, 30 R) (99.9+ % chance, median 128/??? on Stage 3)

Tiberium 6/6 Dice 125 R
-[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Development 0/40 (1 Die, 25 R) (96% chance)
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) 74/180 (2 Dice, 50 R) (92% chance)
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 0/200 (2 Dice, 40 R, -10 PS) (22% chance)
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto) 0/70 (1 Die, 10 R) (71% chance)

Orbital 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice 160 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 32/1425 (8 dice, 160 R) (8/20 median)

Services 3/4 Dice 45 R
-[] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 149/200 (1 Die, 5 R) (86% chance)
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 0/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (78% chance)
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 0/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (78% chance)

Military 6/6 Dice + 4 Free Dice 130 R
-[] Security Review
-[] Naval Defense Laser Refits 270/330 (1 Die, 15 R) (74% chance)
-[] Tube Artillery Deployment 184/200 (1 Dice, 15 R) (100% chance)
-[] Pacifier MAV Deployment 90/120 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 2) 26/300 (2 Dice, 50 R) (2/4 median)
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 (4 Dice, 40 R) (35% chance)

Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice
-[] Military Security Review (3 Dice)

The second pushes us in the direction of the ICS. It's a bit slower on arcologies but we'll still be finishing that phase in 2059Q2 or Q3 at the latest, along with plenty of extra housing from the communal projects. We'll be fine, seriously.

This plan focuses on doing the Super Orca deployment along with the unfinished business from last turn. It keeps the sensor refits, but largely sacrifices work on the shell plants.

It also flips back to three dice on fusion power and one on capital goods, because this is slightly cheaper and I needed those last 5 R to activate one die on shell plants (which at least makes it easier to get the next phase done next turn)

...

TENTATIVE 2059Q1 BUDGET:
740 R, 7 Free dice
735/740 Resources spent
7/7 Free Dice allocated

[] Draft Plan Straighten Out The Ports

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 70 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 3) 302/650 (1 Die, 15 R) (1/3.5 median)
-[] Communal Housing Experiments 72/140 (1 Die, 10 R, -5 PS) (74% chance)
-[] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 (3 Dice, 45 R) (3/11 median)

Heavy Industry 4/4 Dice 90 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3) 125/300 (3 Dice, 60 R) (86% chance)
-[] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 0/500 (1 Die, 25 R) (1/7.5 median)

Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 80 R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 4/320 (4 Dice, 80 R) (28% chance)

Agriculture 3/3 Dice 30 R
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2) 291/350 (3 Dice, 30 R) (99.9+ % chance, median 128/??? on Stage 3)

Tiberium 6/6 Dice 125 R
-[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Development 0/40 (1 Die, 25 R) (96% chance)
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) 74/180 (2 Dice, 50 R) (92% chance)
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 0/200 (2 Dice, 40 R, -10 PS) (22% chance)
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto) 0/70 (1 Die, 10 R) (71% chance)

Orbital 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice 160 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 32/1425 (8 dice, 160 R) (8/20 median)

Services 3/4 Dice 45 R
-[] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 149/200 (1 Die, 5 R) (86% chance)
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 0/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (78% chance)
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 0/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (78% chance)

Military 6/6 Dice + 4 Free Dice 145 R
-[] Security Review
-[] Naval Defense Laser Refits 270/330 (1 Die, 15 R) (74% chance)
-[] Tube Artillery Deployment 184/200 (1 Dice, 15 R) (100% chance)
-[] Pacifier MAV Deployment 90/120 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 2) 26/300 (2 Dice, 50 R) (2/4 median)
-[] Orca Refit Deployment 0/200 (3 Dice, 45 R) (57% chance)
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 (1 Die, 10 R) (1/4.5 median)

Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice
-[] Military Security Review (3 Dice)

The third swaps out sensors for Space Force. Both Phase 1 OSRCT and the Super Orca refit have roughly a 50/50 chance of completing under this plan.

TENTATIVE 2059Q1 BUDGET:
740 R, 7 Free dice
735/740 Resources spent
7/7 Free Dice allocated

[] Draft Plan Aerospace Warfare

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 70 R
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 3) 302/650 (2 Dice, 30 R) (2/3.5 median)
-[] Communal Housing Experiments 72/140 (1 Die, 10 R, -5 PS) (74% chance)
-[] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 (2 Dice, 30 R) (2/11 median)

Heavy Industry 4/4 Dice 90 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3) 125/300 (3 Dice, 60 R) (86% chance)
-[] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 0/500 (1 Die, 25 R) (1/7.5 median)

Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 80 R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 4/320 (4 Dice, 80 R) (28% chance)

Agriculture 3/3 Dice 30 R
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2) 291/350 (3 Dice, 30 R) (99.9+ % chance, median 128/??? on Stage 3)

Tiberium 6/6 Dice 125 R
-[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Development 0/40 (1 Die, 25 R) (96% chance)
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) 74/180 (2 Dice, 50 R) (92% chance)
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 0/200 (2 Dice, 40 R, -10 PS) (22% chance)
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto) 0/70 (1 Die, 10 R) (71% chance)

Orbital 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice 160 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 32/1425 (8 dice, 160 R) (8/20 median)

Services 3/4 Dice 45 R
-[] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 149/200 (1 Die, 5 R) (86% chance)
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 0/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (78% chance)
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 0/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (78% chance)

Military 6/6 Dice + 4 Free Dice 145 R
-[] Security Review
-[] Naval Defense Laser Refits 270/330 (1 Die, 15 R) (74% chance)
-[] Tube Artillery Deployment 184/200 (1 Dice, 15 R) (100% chance)
-[] Pacifier MAV Deployment 90/120 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] Orca Refit Deployment 0/200 (3 Dice, 45 R) (57% chance)
-[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Station (Phase 1) 0/220 (3 Dice, 60 R) (53% chance)

Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice
-[] Military Security Review (3 Dice)

Derpmind said:
We want to avoid situations like this turn, where we needed to rush out a phase of fusion with our limited free dice so we didn't run out of Energy. We risked a critfail giving us (global) power outages, and it diverted our free dice and so limited our ability to do other projects. It's far better to keep ahead of the problem with a healthy surplus so we simply don't need to worry about about it.

In all fairness, with Phase 2 of the fusion plants done, we have a surplus. We can maintain this surplus just by ticking along at 1-2 dice on fusion power per turn, at least for the rest of this year. Because even two dice gives us a surprising roughly 1/3 chance of finishing the next phase, and if it doesn't finish, who cares? We won't burn down our whole +13-or-so Energy surplus in a single turn, so we can afford to let the Phase 3 fusion plants complete in 2059Q2.

Derpmind · Nov 13, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
In all fairness, with Phase 2 of the fusion plants done, we have a surplus. We can maintain this surplus just by ticking along at 1-2 dice on fusion power per turn, at least for the rest of this year. Because even two dice gives us a surprising roughly 1/3 chance of finishing the next phase, and if it doesn't finish, who cares? We won't burn down our whole +13-or-so Energy surplus in a single turn, so we can afford to let the Phase 3 fusion plants complete in 2059Q2

That is what I want. We can slowly deploy the next phase of Fusion with minimal dice used, but only if we're working on it ahead of time.

Ithillid · Nov 13, 2021

I like SCEDquest a lot. Both from the perspective of a QM and from the perspective of trying to represent GDI's government as a relatively functional creature.
Basically, when it comes to space, there is a lot of stuff that needs to be done, and a lot of it is fiddly, detail oriented, and usually not all that massively interesting to do. Which means that in a game where your options to spend limit resources include both "explore lifeless rocks" and "build laser guns" the latter is almost always going to win more votes. So the SCED is amazingly useful as a place to do a lot of the basic developments and build up space travel in ways that don't need the main quest moving in and throwing massive development projects out.
Beyond that, one complaint that has been relatively accurate is that I have been fairly bad about allowing other parts of the government to do things. While BOT is not doing one of the big departments like Welfare, the SCED is someone who can do things, and important things that I can reference and produce both projects and results from. And that helps.
Beyond that, at this point I would be quite willing to bring BOT into the quest more fully, but am not entirely sure how to make that work best.

Simon_Jester · Nov 13, 2021

Derpmind said:
That is what I want. We can slowly deploy the next phase of Fusion with minimal dice used, but only if we're working on it ahead of time.

OK, but there's not that much practical difference between spending three dice on the fusion plants this turn (86% chance to complete, substantial rollover likely) and spending two dice and then one die next turn (35% likely to complete this turn, ~50% likely to complete next turn, less rollover in some scenarios).

It's a fairly minor tweak that I suggested and it may wind up not really doing anything.

BoSPaladin · Nov 13, 2021

Ithillid said:
I like SCEDquest a lot. Both from the perspective of a QM and from the perspective of trying to represent GDI's government as a relatively functional creature.
Basically, when it comes to space, there is a lot of stuff that needs to be done, and a lot of it is fiddly, detail oriented, and usually not all that massively interesting to do. Which means that in a game where your options to spend limit resources include both "explore lifeless rocks" and "build laser guns" the latter is almost always going to win more votes. So the SCED is amazingly useful as a place to do a lot of the basic developments and build up space travel in ways that don't need the main quest moving in and throwing massive development projects out.
Beyond that, one complaint that has been relatively accurate is that I have been fairly bad about allowing other parts of the government to do things. While BOT is not doing one of the big departments like Welfare, the SCED is someone who can do things, and important things that I can reference and produce both projects and results from. And that helps.
Beyond that, at this point I would be quite willing to bring BOT into the quest more fully, but am not entirely sure how to make that work best.

Ultimately, I'd like to suggest taking a step back from the idea of trying to represent the other branches of government. The quest is a planquest about department of government doing things. We don't need a quest within a quest relating to other government agencies doing other government things. I'd argue particularly not multiple ones.

So. Step back. How do you/people/we show the government doing things without *being* the government doing things. I'd argue that's quite simple. GDI online segments gives a snap shot of what life is like for ordinary people worried about housing and whatever else. More of that without the filter of gdi online. Snippets of how people are affected by government policy.

Single mom veteran with a missing arm helped by her daughter who's been struggling in school. Daughter comes home to a cooked meal. Mom has a cool new robot arm courtesy of Services branch. Educational branch? they're using those chip factory's Main built and the educational initiatve so mom has been given a laptop with educational EVA to help daughter with study. Left unsaid is the fact all of the food they're eating was grown by agricultural projects we built and is part paid for by moms military pension, and partly by services universal income support. Mom makes mention of maybe re-enlisting. At least in a training role as a drill sergeant, assuming robot arms don't quite meet the requirements yet for active duty deployment.

Human stories.

Not so much showing what other departments are doing. But the results of their actions.

BOTcommander said:
either give suggestions on how I could do it better

Ultimately, my main concern stems from this part.

"But any 'quest' part seems... "Pick number to go up. If number reaches goal, other number goes up." To me it's like watching paint dry. Either stuff finishes, or it doesn't.... and then it gets finished later."

As I said. Quest wise, it's waiting around for stuff to be done. Fine, it's supposed to be low stakes, totally get that.

That in mind, why not go even smaller? Tied into the above, a personal human level. A botanist on mars testing soil samples/conducting small scale tests. Is there a solid foundation for building in x location, does the soil retain water and nutrients well enough to perhaps be used for agriculture. Is the ground seismically stable enough for construction? What do the astronauts/crew do in their down time?

The 'big picture' view from a bureaucrats office tends to be quite dry. And sure, big picture it will eventually all be useful or lay the foundation on that. But what's it doing now/how is it being done?

Sced has a super spaceship. Great. Do the crew have nice amenities? Does it require much maintenance? How much maintenance can be performed in flight? Are there any issues it needs drydock for and what complications can these issues cause until it gets fixed?

As I said. Writing is fine, nice sci-fi. Cool. But it's the quest part that falls short IMO. A lot of it is just waiting until stuff is done. Instead of waiting until the big monthly project is done, what are the minor tasks that are done daily? Are the characters actual people? Because for most of what I see, carter could be sat waiting in his office for reports from robots and drones. The people do a thing until it gets done, it's not finished? ho hum, onto the next turn. next turn a project finishes and we get glimmers of interesting stuff, then it's back to the waiting game.

TheFourthman · Nov 13, 2021

Man I don't even like space quest and find this odd. I enjoyed the story snippets for it but it'd not my bag.

@BoSPaladin is entitled to their opinion and thoughts.

However, if you like it and you're enjoying it? It does not matter if it's optimal story/gameplay. If you think showing more day to day of the people on the ground is fun do so. Or not. Not everything has to be for everyone.

BoSPaladin said:
Ultimately, I'd like to suggest taking a step back from the idea of trying to represent the other branches of government. The quest is a planquest about department of government doing things. We don't need a quest within a quest relating to other government agencies doing other government things. I'd argue particularly not multiple ones.

I disagree.

I kind of wish there were more. There space quest and the space party quest. Instead of space party quest looking into some other department would be interesting. They help flesh out the world a bit more.

BOTcommander · Nov 13, 2021

BoSPaladin said:
As I said. Quest wise, it's waiting around for stuff to be done. Fine, it's supposed to be low stakes, totally get that.

That in mind, why not go even smaller? Tied into the above, a personal human level. A botanist on mars testing soil samples/conducting small scale tests. Is there a solid foundation for building in x location, does the soil retain water and nutrients well enough to perhaps be used for agriculture. Is the ground seismically stable enough for construction? What do the astronauts/crew do in their down time?

The 'big picture' view from a bureaucrats office tends to be quite dry. And sure, big picture it will eventually all be useful or lay the foundation on that. But what's it doing now/how is it being done?

Sced has a super spaceship. Great. Do the crew have nice amenities? Does it require much maintenance? How much maintenance can be performed in flight? Are there any issues it needs drydock for and what complications can these issues cause until it gets fixed?

As I said. Writing is fine, nice sci-fi. Cool. But it's the quest part that falls short IMO. A lot of it is just waiting until stuff is done. Instead of waiting until the big monthly project is done, what are the minor tasks that are done daily? Are the characters actual people? Because for most of what I see, carter could be sat waiting in his office for reports from robots and drones. The people do a thing until it gets done, it's not finished? ho hum, onto the next turn. next turn a project finishes and we get glimmers of interesting stuff, then it's back to the waiting game.

These are good suggestions, but they come down again to how much detail I can put in the quest. My time is limited and I have my own original quest that needs most of my energy. If I wrote every SCEDQuest update to the degree of The Second First Moonlanding I would never get anywhere, especially not on a turn-by-turn basis. SCEDQuest has to work on minimal mechanics and detail.

Derpmind · Nov 13, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
OK, but there's not that much practical difference between spending three dice on the fusion plants this turn (86% chance to complete, substantial rollover likely) and spending two dice and then one die next turn (35% likely to complete this turn, ~50% likely to complete next turn, less rollover in some scenarios).

It's a fairly minor tweak that I suggested and it may wind up not really doing anything.

I don't think I was I arguing for or against using 3 vs 2 dice on fusion plants? I just want to avoid situations where we need to use 5+ dice in a single turn on them again.

(35% likely to complete this turn, ~50% likely to complete next turn, less rollover in some scenarios).

That's not how it works. You can't subtract 35% from 86% to get 50%. That 86% chance is the probability that any set of three d100 dice rolls a total of 97 or higher. (We need at least ninety seven because 125 +97 [roll] +63 [three +21 die bonuses] +15 [omake bonus] = 300/300.) For the first two dice to not complete the project and the third die to also not complete it, we'd need to roll in the bottom ~14% of possible roll results between those three dice. Which is, well, an only ~14% chance.

For an example: We're currently at 125/300 progress, and have a die bonus of 21. (22 next turn.) For us to use 2 dice this turn, and then have a 50% completion chance on one die next turn, we'd have to roll a 45, bringing us to 212/300. One die at 212/300 has a 50% completion chance since it means we'd need to roll 51 or higher on our d100. (212 +51 [roll] +22 [die bonus] +15[omake bonus] = 300.) But a result of 45 or lower is in the bottom 10% of results one can get on a 2d100; it's very unlikely we'll roll that low.

For comparison, if we roll exactly average for 101 points, we'd go to 268/300. Which is close enough that just from our die bonuses (+21 per die, +15 omake) we'll always succeed on that third die. And if we roll 118 points or more on two dice, (a 34.86% chance) we'll get to at least 285/300 which is enough that the omake bonus, if needed, will complete it.

BOTcommander · Nov 13, 2021

SCEDQuest rolling
[X] Plan Doing Stuff + Jupiter Scan Prep v2
Facilities
-[X]New Johnson Training Center (Stage 3) 2 dice (50C) (2/5 median)
-[X]Gagarin Station (Stage 3) 3/5 Parts (15C, 30IP, 30LC)
Development
-[X]Advanced Lunar Base Stage 2 98/400 4 dice (20C, 8IP) 37%
-[X]Lunar Regolith Agricultural Experiments 0/200 1 die (2C, 1IP) (1/3 median)
Space Command Mission Planning
-[X]Mission: Orbital Scan Jupiter
-[X]Mission: Orbital Scan Io
-[X]Mission: Research Base Mars 139/600 1 die (1/8.5 median)
Missions
-[X]Pardus Mission-Luna Mare Nubium (2C, 4IP, 1 Manned Mission)
-[X]Pardus Mission-Luna Oceanus Procellarum (2C, 4IP, 1 Manned Mission)
-[X]Probe Delivery-Venus (13 Pathfinder days) x9 (9C, 18IP, 9LC)
-[X]Belt Probing x10 (17+50 Pathfinder Days)

80/80 Pathinder Days 100/100 Credits (0/18 Credits reserve) 65/80 Industry Points 39/80 Launch Capacity

EDIT: Second moon prospecting is Venus carographing and third one is Belt prospecting.

Derpmind · Nov 13, 2021

New Johnson Training Center (Stage 3) 139/400 +73 = 212/400
Advanced Lunar Base Stage 2 98/400 +80 +103 = 281/400
Lunar Regolith Agricultural Experiments 0/200 +20 +35 = 55/200
Mission: Research Base Mars 139/600 +5 +25 = 169/600

We rolled an average of 29.5 on our eight d100s. Jeez.

Dmol8 · Nov 13, 2021

Alright second mathpost for SCEDQuest:

New Johnson Training Center (Stage 3) 139+21+52 = 212/400
Advanced Lunar Base Stage 2 98+14+75+2+12+80 = 281/400
Lunar Regolith Agricultural Experiments 0+35+20 = 55/200
Mission: Research Base Mars 139+25+5 = 169

Wow. Just wow. Glad we rolled this on the side-quest. Hopefully we miss this sort of rolls on the main quest next turn.

KlavoHunter · Nov 13, 2021

Dmol8 said:
New Johnson Training Center (Stage 3) 139+21+52 = 212/400
Advanced Lunar Base Stage 2 98+14+75+2+12+80 = 281/400
Lunar Regolith Agricultural Experiments 0+35+20 = 55/200
Mission: Research Base Mars 139+25+5 = 169

You found a suitable dogshit-brown for THOSE numbers! :tongue:

My own personal take: SCEDQuest is usually too much for me, personally, to pay full attention to on top of the main quest. But it does help show the more hopeful side of this game, where perhaps we can get away from the Green Death Rock by becoming a spacefaring species.

Enerael · Nov 13, 2021

HousePet said:
I'm still keen for the Railgun Harvester Factories. They cost a bit of Energy, may not be a great return on dice investment as far as income goes, they may even become redundant when the Scrin Harvesting tech comes online. But, don't we want to make ZOCOM's life easier? Safer harvesting operations are worth investing in.

I am not a fan of those, they were noted to likely soon be obsolete, they they do not overflow to my knowledge so some would take 2 dice, and that Energy cost adds up fast. Also they do not seem to give many Rs compared to Red Zone actions or the offshore mining platforms.

I can't see further Wartime Factory Refits happening this year, despite them being overdue. We likely won't have spare Capital Goods until next year.

I don't see why not if we do Industrial Zones, those would pay for it and leave our current +3 for other uses. We would have to avoid Vein Mines though.

Wartime Factory Refits are very important not just for the military dice but also because it appears to increase war material production. With every stage cleared, GDI produces more tanks and more of everything that we did not build factories for after the war so after the start of the quest.

Simon_Jester said:
Housing, because when our Housing buffer is nearly consumed, it means civilians are living in the shitty housing no one wants. This makes people discontent and angry.

That's more a matter of that "(23 population in low quality housing)", the excess +Housing is irrelevant. We could demolish low quality houses, have +0 Housing, and everyone would live well. Though of course we want a buffer for refugees so no reason to demolish.

Logistics, because if a bunch of Nod warlords get riled up and actually try to hurt us at once, we're probably going to take a sizeable -Logistics penalty for a while. Furthermore, the effort of fighting on so many fronts at once will probably further strain our Logistics, so having a buffer may mean being able to prosecute further offensives.

Dunno about that, we have a lot of defensive depth given our focus on Yellow zones. Piracy would be a problem, and military would eat some for shipping more ammo and stuff, but I don't think that it would be major unless Nod does a large scale sabotage campaign or something. I am thinking that +4-5 Logistics should be a safe buffer until Kane returns.

It is almost certainly a bad idea for us to spend down to 0 or +1 Capital Goods when we know some of the warlords are launching deep strike attacks against major heavy-industrial nodes. Like, we want the war factory refits but we don't need them that badly.

Those CapGs would be turned into say tanks, and if CapGs ran out the tank factory would temporarily shut down, resulting in GDI with more tanks than if it was stingy with CapGs I think. If we did the Wartime Factory Refits and than came down to -8 CapGs somehow, what that should logically result in is at worst losing the benefits.

The point of getting Perennials done quickly is that it's cheap and will provide more beneficial impact for the Four Year Plan's consumer goods goals if we do it sooner rather than later. I know there's demand for caffeinated kudzu and to be very blunt and direct about that, we are going to do that soon. But this isn't a massive mismanagement disaster area; there are arguments for either sequencing.

It would postpone Perennials by at most a Quarter to take a look at what Kudzu deployment would be like, and it might even be deployed for that cost. Unless we are stretched to provide our plans Food and Consumer Goods in time I don't see why deprive people of something that they want so much, to the point that it is being used to bribe Nod warlords.

Derpmind said:
We want to avoid situations like this turn, where we needed to rush out a phase of fusion with our limited free dice so we didn't run out of Energy. We risked a critfail giving us (global) power outages, and it diverted our free dice and so limited our ability to do other projects. It's far better to keep ahead of the problem with a healthy surplus so we simply don't need to worry about about it.

Well yes I am a fan of an Energy buffer, but we will have like +17 or so this turn? I really don't see the hurry, getting say Industrial Zones done and then returning to fusion would still give us a healthy Energy buffer as I understand it.

Derpmind · Nov 13, 2021

Enerael said:
I am not a fan of those, they were noted to likely soon be obsolete, they they do not overflow to my knowledge so some would take 2 dice, and that Energy cost adds up fast. Also they do not seem to give many Rs compared to Red Zone actions or the offshore mining platforms.

The main advantage of the Railgun Harvesters are that they reduce the strain on our military (at a time where they're being strained quite a bit) in addition to giving us +5 RpT. And sure, we have a Scrin-based upgrade coming eventually, but that'll be for all our Harvesters, while the Railgun Harvesters are only intended to operate in dangerous territory near NOD. So I think it's still worth building them now, even if it means a bit less efficiency doing the later refit when it becomes available.

Enerael said:
Well yes I am a fan of an Energy buffer, but we will have like +17 or so this turn? I really don't see the hurry, getting say Industrial Zones done and then returning to fusion would still give us a healthy Energy buffer as I understand it.

The problem is that between all the other projects we want to do, by the time we'd get Heavy Industrial Zones online most if not all of our Energy will have been used up again. And it's not like the next phase of Fusion will be that expensive dice-wise, anyways.

Derpmind · Nov 13, 2021

Aaaand finally done. Here's the preliminary array for next turn. As always, please inform me if you see something that might be an error.

Infrastructure 5 dice +26: -[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 3) 302/650 3 dice 45R 2%, 4 dice 60R 33%, 5 dice 75R 78%, 6 dice 90R 96%
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 3+4) 302/1300 11 dice 165R 7%, 12 dice 180R 26%, 13 dice 195R 54%, 14 dice 210R 79%, 15 dice 225R 93%
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 3) 25/200 2 dice 40R 55%, 3 dice 60R 91%
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 2) 28/160 1 die 10R 10%, 2 dice 20R 80%, 3 dice 30R 99%
-[] Communal Housing Experiments 72/140 1 die 10R 74%, 2 dice 20R 100%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 2) 15/275 3 dice 45R 39%, 4 dice 60R 85%, 5 dice 75R 99%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 2+3) 12/575 6 dice 90R 12%, 7 dice 105R 45%, 8 dice 120R 79%, 9 dice 135R 95%
-[] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 8 dice 120R 2%, 9 dice 135R 14%, 10 dice 150R 42%, 11 dice 165R 72%, 12 dice 180R 91%
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 0/200 2 dice 60R 23%, 3 dice 90R 81%, 4 dice 120R 98%
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1+2) 0/450 5 dice ?R 22%, 6 dice ?R 63%, 7 dice ?R 90%
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1+2+3) 0/650 7 dice ?R 10%, 8 dice ?R 39%, 9 dice ?R 73%, 10 dice ?R 92%
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 3/700 7 dice 140R 5%, 8 Tib dice 160R 29%, 9 Tib dice 180R 65%, 10 Tib dice 200R 89%, 11 Tib dice 220R 98%
--Note: Infra/Tib dice makes this complicated.
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1) 0/75 1 Tib die 20R 70%, 2 Tib dice 40R 100%
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1+2) 0/225 2 Tib dice 40R 12%, 3 Tib dice 60R 71%, 4 Tib dice 80R 97%
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1+2+3) 0/525 5 Tib dice 100R 4%, 6 Tib dice 120R 33%, 7 Tib dice 140R 73%, 8 Tib dice 160R 94%
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1+2+3+4) 0/1125 12 Tib dice 240R 6%, 13 Tib dice 260R 23%, 14 Tib dice 280R 51%, 15 Tib dice 300R 77%, 16 Tib dice 320R 92%
--Note: Infra/Tib dice makes this complicated.
Heavy Industry 4 dice +21: -[] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Stage 3) 20/550 6 dice 60R 12%, 7 dice 70R 43%, 8 dice 80R 76%, 9 dice 90R 93%
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3) 125/300 2 dice 40R 35%, 3 dice 60R 86%, 4 dice 80R 99%
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3+4) 125/600 5 dice 100R 6%, 6 dice 120R 34%, 7 dice 140R 70%, 8 dice 160R 91%
-[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5) 36/2400 31 dice 465R 2%, 32 dice 480R 6%, 33 dice 495R 13%, 34 dice 510R 24%, 35 dice 525R 37%, 36 dice 540R 52%, 37 dice 555R 66%, 38 dice 570R 78%, 39 dice 585R 87%, 40 dice 600R 93%
--Note: Infrequently updated due to very large dice. Currently out of date.
-[] Tokyo Chip Fabricator (Phase 1) 0/125 1 die 15R 12%, 2 dice 30R 78%, 3 dice 45R 99%
-[] Tokyo Chip Fabricator (Phase 1+2) 0/375 4 dice 60R 11%, 5 dice 75R 49%, 6 dice 90R 83%, 7 dice 105R 97%
-[] Tokyo Chip Fabricator (Phase 1+2+3) 0/875 10 dice 150R 6%, 11 dice 165R 123%, 12 dice 180R 49%, 13 dice 195R 75%, 14 dice 210R 90%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1) 0/160 2 dice 40R 49%, 3 dice 60R 91%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1+2) 0/480 5 dice 100R 5%, 6 dice 120R 31%, 7 dice 140R 68%, 8 dice 160R 90%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1+2+3) 0/1120 13 dice 260R 5%, 14 dice 280R 17%, 15 dice 300R 39%, 16 dice 320R 63%, 17 dice 340R 82%, 18 dice 360R 93%
-[] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 0/500 5 dice 125R 2%, 6 dice 150R 22%, 7 dice 175R 58%, 8 dice 200R 86%, 9 dice 225R 97%
-[] Reserve Heavy Industrial Resources (New) 1 die auto
Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice +16: -[] Blue Zone Light Industrial Sectors (Phase 1) 0/250 3 dice 30R 25%, 4 dice 40R 70%, 5 dice 50R 93%
-[] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) 94/300 2 dice 30R 9%, 3 dice 45R 57%, 4 dice 60R 90%
-[] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 69/720 8 dice 160R 10%, 9 dice 180R 34%, 10 dice 200R 62%, 11 dice 220R 84%, 12 dice 240R 95%
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 4/320 3 dice 60R 2%, 4 dice 80R 28%, 5 dice 100R 69%, 6 dice 120R 92%
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3+4) 4/960 12 dice 240R 8%, 13 dice 260R 23%, 14 dice 280R 47%, 15 dice 300R 69%, 16 dice 320R 86%, 17 dice 340R 94%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 1 die 30R 37%, 2 dice 60R 89%, 3 dice 90R 99%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1+2) 0/285 3 dice 90R 9%, 4 dice 120R 48%, 5 dice 150R 83%, 6 dice 180R 97%
Agriculture 3 dice +16: -[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 1) 0/150 2 dice 30R 49%, 3 dice 45R 90%
-[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 1+2) 0/400 4 dice 60R 2%, 5 dice 75R 22%, 6 dice 90R 58%, 7 dice 105R 85%, 8 dice 120R 96%
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2) 291/350 1 die 10R 73%, 2 dice 20R 99%
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2+3) 291/700 5 dice 50R 18%, 6 dice 60R 53%, 7 dice 70R 82%, 8 dice 80R 95%
-[] Yellow Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 5) 22/200 2 dice 20R 25%, 3 dice 30R 76%, 4 dice 40R 96%
-[] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (Phase 2) 12/160 2 dice 20R 51%, 3 dice 30R 90%
-[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 2 dice 30R 27%, 3 dice 45R 78%, 4 dice 60R 97%
-[] Ranching Domes 0/250 3 dice 60R 25%, 4 dice 80R 70%, 5 dice 100R 93%
-[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1) 0/170 2 dice 30R 30%, 3 dice 45R 81%, 4 dice 60R 97%
-[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 1+2) 0/180 4 dice 40R 12%, 5 dice 50R 49%, 6 dice 60R 81%, 7 dice 70R 96%
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 0/40 1 die 20R 97%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 0/200 2 dice 40R 12%, 3 dice 60R 61%, 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 1) 0/150 2 dice 20R 49%, 3 dice 30R 90%
-[] Extra Large Food Stockpiles 1 die auto
Tiberium 6 dice +29: -[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Repeating Stage) 2/200 2 dice 10R 29%, 3 dice 15R 86%, 4 dice 20R 99%
-[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Repeating Stage x2) 2/400 4 dice 20R 14%, 5 dice 25R 59%, 6 dice 30R 91%
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 20/200 2 dice 40R 32%, 3 dice 60R 87%, 4 dice 80R 99%
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2+3) 20/400 4 dice 80R 8%, 5 dice 100R 46%, 6 dice 120R 83%, 7 dice 140R 97%
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6) 2/375 4 dice 80R 25%, 5 dice 100R 73%, 6 dice 120R 95%
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 6+7) 2/775 8 dice 160R 7%, 9 dice 180R 32%, 10 dice 200R 66%, 11 dice 220R 89%, 12 dice 240R 98%
-[-] Intensification of Yellow Zone Harvesting (Stage 4) 63/100 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 12) 29/130 1 die 25R 44%, 2 dice 50R 96%
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 12+13) 29/260 2 dice 50R 9%, 3 dice 75R 67%, 4 dice 100R 96%
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) 74/180 1 die 25R 39%, 2 dice 50R 95%
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5+6) 74/360 3 dice 75R 27%, 4 dice 100R 79%, 5 dice 125R 98%
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 13) 38/180 1 die 30R 3%, 2 dice 60R 77%, 3 dice 90R 99%
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 13+14) 38/360 3 dice 90R 9%, 4 dice 120R 58%, 5 dice 150R 92%
-[] Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 2) 20/200 2 dice 60R 45%, 3 dice 90R 93%
-[] Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 2+3) 20/400 4 dice 120R 22%, 5 dice 150R 69%, 6 dice 180R 94%
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zones) 0/100 1 die 30R 45%, 2 dice 60R 97%
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Red Zones) 0/120 1 die 30R 25%, 2 dice 60R 90%
-[] Railgun Harvester Factories 0/70 1 die 10R 75%, 2 dice 20R 100%
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations (New) 0/200 2 dice 40R 10PS 28%, 3 dice 60R 15PS 85%, 4 dice 80R 20PS 99%
-[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Development 0/40 1 die 25R 100%
-[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Development 0/50 1 die 30R 100%
-[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 0/180 2 dice 40R 10PS 54%, 3 dice 60R 15PS 96%
Orbital Industry 5 dice +16: -[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 32/1425 16 dice 320R 2%, 17 dice 340R 9%, 18 dice 360R 23%, 19 dice 380R 44%, 20 dice 400R 66%, 21 dice 420R 82%, 22 dice 440R 93%
-[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 1) 0/80 1 die 20R 57%, 2 dice 40 R 98%
-[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 1+2) 0/245 3 dice 60R 39%, 4 dice 80R 83%, 5 dice 100R 98%
-[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 1+2+3) 0/580 6 dice 120R 3%, 7 dice 140R 21%, 8 dice 160R 54%, 9 dice 180R 82%, 10 dice 200R 95%
-[] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4) 0/765 9 dice 180R 11%, 10 dice 200R 35%, 11 dice 220R 65%, 12 dice 240R 86%, 13 dice 260R 96%
-[] GDSS Shala - Same as Columbia
-[] Study Novel Material (New) 0/50 1 die 20R 82%, 2 dice 20R 99%
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 8) 13/85 1 die 10R 60%, 2 dice 20R 97%
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 8+9) 13/170 2 dice 20R 42%, 3 dice 30R 87%, 4 dice 40R 99%
-[] Conestoga Class Development (New) 0/60 1 die 30R 77%, 2 dice 60R 99%

-[] Asteroid Belt Survey Probes 16/45 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Outer System Survey Probes 0/190 2 dice 30R 17%, 3 dice 45R 68%, 4 dice 60R 94%

-[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1) 0/170 2 die 40R 31%, 3 dice 60R 81%, 4 dice 80R 97%
-[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1+2) 0/170 4 dice 80R 23%, 5 dice 100R 65%, 6 dice 120R 89%, 7 dice 140R 98%
-[] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 2) 50/340 3 dice 60R 7%, 4 dice 80R 44%, 5 dice 100R 81%, 6 dice 120R 96%
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 1) 0/395 4 dice 80R 2%, 5 dice 100R 24%, 6 dice 120R 60%, 7 dice 140R 87%, 8 dice 160R 97%

-[-] Lunar Water Mine (Inactive)
-[-] Helium 3 Harvesting(Inactive)
Services 4 dice +21: -[] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 149/200 1 die 5R 86%, 2 dice 10R 100%
-[] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 3 dice 60R 9%, 4 dice 80R 51%, 5 dice 100R 87%, 6 dice 120R 98%
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 0/60 1 die 20R 82%, 2 dice 40R 100%
-[] Prosthetics Deployment Initiatives (Phase 3) 2/160 2 dice 30R 51%, 3 dice 45R 92%
-[] Prosthetics Deployment Initiatives (Phase 3+4) 2/480 5 dice 75R 5%, 6 dice 90R 32%, 7 dice 105R 69%, 8 dice 120R 91%
-[] Professional Sports Programs 0/250 3 dice 30R 35%, 4 dice 40R 81%, 5 dice 50R 97%
-[] Domestic Animal Programs 0/200 2 dice 20R 17%, 3 dice 30R 72%, 4 dice 40R 96%
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 0/60 1 die 20R 82%, 2 dice 40R 100%
-[] Early Prototype General Artificial Intelligence Development 0/120 1 die 20R 22%, 2 dice 40R 87%, 3 dice 60R 99%
-[] Human Genetic Engineering Programs (New) 0/120 1 die 25R 22%, 2 dice 50R 87%, 3 dice 75R 99%
Military 6 dice +18: -[] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 3) 3/100 1 20R 37%, 2 dice 40R 90%
-[] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 3+4) 3/200 2 dice 20R 15%, 3 dice 60R 68%, 4 dice 80R 94%
-[] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 2) 26/300 3 dice 75R 15%, 4 dice 100R 60%, 5 dice 125R 90%
-[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 2 dice 40R 31%, 3 dice 60R 84%, 4 dice 80R 98%
-[] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 25R 79%, 2 dice 50R 100%
-[] Stealth Disruptor Development 0/40 1 die 15R 99%
-[] Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits 0/350 4 dice 20R 15%, 5 dice 25R 55%, 6 dice 30R 86%, 7 dice 35R 97%

-[] Reclaimator Hub 0/105 1 die 20R 29%, 2 dice 40R 86%, 3 dice 60R 99%
-[] Reclaimator Hub x2 0/210 2 dice 40R 9%, 3 dice 60R 58%, 4 dice 80R 91%
-[] Proto MARVs 0/110 1 die 20R 24%, 2 dice 40R 73%, 3 dice 60R 99% (but why tho)
-[] MARVs 0/160 2 dice 40R 43%, 3 dice 60R 88%, 4 dice 80R 98% (but why tho)
-[] Super MARVs 0/210 2 dice 40R 9%, 3 dice 60R 58%, 4 dice 80R 91%

-[] Reclaimator Hub Blue Zone 1 39/105 1 die 20R 68%, 2 dice 40R 99%
-[] Reclaimator Hub Yellow Zone 5b 20/105 1 die 20R 49%, 2 dice 40R 95%
-[] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7-South 51/105 1 die 20R 80%, 2 dice 40R 99%

Zone Operations Command
-[] Pacifier Mobile Artillery Vehicle Deployment 90/120 1 die 10R 100%
-[] Infantry Recon Support Drone Development 0/40 1 die 10R 199%
-[] Backpack Rocket Launcher Development 0/50 1 die 10R 89%, 2 dice 20R 100%

Air Force
-[] Orca Refit Deployment 0/200 2 dice 30R 14%, 3 dice 45R 65%, 4 dice 60R 94%
-[] Wingman Drone Development 0/40 1 die 15R 99%
-[] Tactical Airborne Laser Development 0/40 1 die 20R 99%
-[] Aurora Strike Bomber Development 0/40 1 die 15R 99%

Space Force
-[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Station (Phase 1) 0/220 2 dice 40R 9%, 3 dice 60R 62%, 4 dice 80R 94%, 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Station (Phase 1+2) 0/415 4 dice 80R 3%, 5 dice 100R 31%, 6 dice 120R 72%, 7 dice 140R 93%
-[] Orbital Defense Laser Development 0/40 1 die 20R 99%
-[] Skywatch Telescope System 0/95 1 die 10R 39%, 2 dice 20R 91%
-[] Orbital Nuclear Caches 0/175 2 dice 40R 38%, 3 dice 60R 88%, 4 dice 80R 99%

Ground Forces
-[] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 2) 105/200 1 die 15R 39%, 2 dice 30R 91%
-[] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 2+3) 105/400 3 dice 45R 7%, 4 dice 60R 46%, 5 dice 75R 83%, 6 dice 90R 97%
-[] Tube Artillery Deployment 184/200 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 3 dice 30R 7%, 4 dice 40R 45%, 5 dice 50R 82%, 6 dice 60R 97%
-[] Railgun Munitions Development 0/60 1 die 10R 79%, 2 dice 20R 100%
-[] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 45/200 2 dice 20R 48%, 3 dice 30R 90%
-[] Guardian Mark 2 Development 0/40 1 die 15R 99%
-[] Armadillo HAPC Development 0/40 1 die 15R 99%
-[] Mammoth Block Four Development 0/40 1 die 10R 99%
-[] Sandstorm HMLRS Development 0/40 1 die 10R 99%
-[] MBT-7 Paladin Development 0/40 1 die 15R 99%
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) 0/200 2 dice 40R 14%, 3 dice 60R 65%, 4 dice 80R 94%
-[] GD-3 Rifle Development 0/30 1 die 10R 100%

Navy
-[] Escort Carrier Development 0/40 1 die 15R 99%
-[] Naval Defense Laser Refits 270/330 1 die 15R 74%, 2 dice 30R 99%
-[] Island Class Assault Ships 0/40 1 die 15R 99%
-[] Victory Class Monitor Development 0/40 1 die 15R 99%
-[] Shark Class Frigate Development 0/40 1 die 15R 99%

Steel Talons
-[] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Development 0/30 1 die 10R 100%
-[] Tactical Plasma Weapon Development 0/40 1 die 30R 99%
-[] Neural Interface System Development 0/60 1 die 25R 79%, 2 dice 50R 100%
Bureaucracy 3 dice +16: -[] Security Reviews: DC50 1 die 82%, 2 dice 99%
-[] Make Political Promises 1 die auto
-[] Interdepartmental Favors 1 die auto
Last Security Review: Agriculture 1 turn ago 2058 Q4
Light/Chem 2 turns ago 2058 Q3
Services 3 turns ago 2058 Q2
Orbital 5 turns ago 2057 Q4
Heavy Ind 6 turns ago 2057 Q3
Tiberium 7 turns ago 2057 Q2
Bureaucracy 8 turns ago 2057 Q1
Infrastructure 9 turns ago 2056 Q4
Military 12 turns ago 2056 Q1

--Note: Additional bonuses are +5 to Development projects, +5 to technology working groups, and +5 to station building.
--Note: Anyone who wants a copy of the current version of the excel sheet I use to help make these Arrays can have one; just send me a PM if you're interested.

Enerael · Nov 13, 2021

Derpmind said:
The main advantage of the Railgun Harvesters are that they reduce the strain on our military (at a time where they're being strained quite a bit) in addition to giving us +5 RpT. And sure, we have a Scrin-based upgrade coming eventually, but that'll be for all our Harvesters, while the Railgun Harvesters are only intended to operate in dangerous territory near NOD. So I think it's still worth building them now, even if it means a bit less efficiency doing the later refit when it becomes available.

Many things reduce the strain on military though, such as Wartime Factory Refits which give them lots more tanks and such.

I had assumed that Scrin tech harvesting would require a new platform instead of a refit, seemed like advanced technology and there was a mention of hovering and tentacles I believe which... would be one hell of a refit indeed.

The problem is that between all the other projects we want to do, by the time we'd get Heavy Industrial Zones online most if not all of our Energy will have been used up again. And it's not like the next phase of Fusion will be that expensive dice-wise, anyways.

What are those though? Because of those listed here:

Simon_Jester said:
Blue Zone Arcologies Phase 3 (-2 Energy)
Freeze Dried Food Plants (-1 Energy)
Railgun Harvester Factories (-2 Energy per factory)
Pacifier MAV Deployment (-2 Energy)
ULRS Phase 2 (-2 Energy)
Shell Plants Phase 4 (-2 Energy)
Ground Force Zone Armor Factories (-4 Energy, -1 Capital Goods per factory)

Given that the Industrial Zone would take about two quarters and that we would have about 11 Energy to play with after those (and Wartime Factory Refits), I don't see us spending the Energy before the next fusion plants come online. Well assuming no Railgun Harvesters and waiting with Zone Armor until after the next plant. I can see us doing Arcologies, Pacifier, and Shells or ULRS in that time which leaves us with I think +5 and +3 reserve the quarter we start the new plants.

And its not like postponing an action or two by a quarter to get our military a lot more tanks would not be worth it, more military dice aside.

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web

THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!

We Shall Wake to Sanity

We Shall Wake to Sanity