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There are impossibly thick fogs that are so prone to causing riots that it's become routine to call up the militia to supplement the City Watch every time one descends. Altdorfers already know that magic is affecting their everyday lives.
Hey, that one's ours! :V
Til DL is pro-riot propaganda and I am loving it
modern Altdorfers react to Wizards by being performatively unimpressed with them.
Probably the best attitude that can be taken by a hostile population in response to wizards. Someone getting up in arms about wizards shows them to be panicky and... a bit embarrassing to be seen associating with.

Why, if wizards were any more boring, Altdorifans refer them them as "perfectly normal beasts humans"
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I wonder how many greys and celestials[1] are given training missions where they have to act in a dismissive manner to the shocked reactions of newcomers to maintain and promote this affected 'meh'

Edit: [1] I was thinking celestials as such social interactions can be good training for finding good inflection points in time to put their fingers on the scales, but lights also have that lie(?) that has everyone around them keeping the place tidy, so I expect they do something like that too.
 
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I think I recall Boney saying way back that Knocks of the Departed wasn't a thing because it made death feel too cheap, in response to someone bringing up the idea of using it to talk to Abel.
 
I think I recall Boney saying way back that Knocks of the Departed wasn't a thing because it made death feel too cheap, in response to someone bringing up the idea of using it to talk to Abel.
It is a thing. It will never appear in story short of very dramatic and heavy purposes. Or at least, that is the gist of the few words of gods i have seen by search function. (The answer of one in particular was to a question that asked if it would be possible to go to Stirland with Roswita if we wooed her and get Abel's approval. The answer to that particular one was yes.)


I understand why this would be attractive, but allowing the dead to still be active participants in the story isn't something I want treated lightly because it'd too easily undermind the gravity of death and loss. Reaching out to him for that purpose specifically would work, but if I let Knocks of the Departed enter the story for anything but seriously dramatic and heavy moments I just know someone's going to start talking about teaching Abelhelm's ghost morse code to mine him for information.

Or at least thats how i understand this. So it wouldn't be practically usable, but if it was to gain moments of grief and closure at meaningful time, i think we could swing it.
 
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There is another spell that Boney didn't want also from the Amethyst spellbook. Something about removing Grief from someone who recently suffered from the loss of a loved one.

I certainly agree that it really cheapens the concept of recovery and trauma and wouldn't like to see something like that.
 
It would have to be very down the line. Even with a freshly-victorious Magnus the Pious saying it had to happen, it took a rather heavy hand to get Altdorf to stop rioting over the presence of magic.
Really it seems to me that, more than anything else, the whole thing works by focusing on two things:
1) That the wizards remain a single faction bloc, rather than dissolving into the general political ecosystem.
2) That the wizards enjoy enough rights and privileges that the average wizard is incentivized to harshly stomp on more ambitious wizards who'd like a lot more rights, damn the angry peasants, so that they can have their guaranteed rights over hypothetically either getting a lot more privileges OR losing them all.

The natural consequence of 1 is that nobody can really do shit where it matters even if they dislike magic, no force in the Empire can budge the united Colleges on their fundamental rights, especially not when its basically impossible to wind up with a weak willed or easily manipulated Supreme Patriarch given the process.
And as long as wizards are loyal to the College as an institution over individual Empire factions, nobody can really achieve MAD, because if they go far enough the Colleges WILL step in on the mess and nobody wants that, especially not the Colleges.

So like Altdorfers, they just get used to it over time. Theres an elephant in the room, and it smells something funky, but its sitting quietly there and you can all see the stains from the last time someone poked it too much and it stopped sitting.
 
It is a thing. It will never appear in story short of very dramatic and heavy purposes. Or at least, that is the gist of the few words of gods i have seen by search function. (The answer of one in particular was to a question that asked if it would be possible to go to Stirland with Roswita if we wooed her and get Abel's approval. The answer to that particular one was yes.)




Or at least thats how i understand this. So it wouldn't be practically usable, but if it was to gain moments of grief and closure at meaningful time, i think we could swing it.
As an IC justification - Knocks of the Departed means you're disturbing the dead's eternal rest, and they aren't forced to answer. So you'd best have a damn good reason for it or you're getting bugger all.

And, of course, no Amethyst mage would accept you using that ability frivolously, because Amethysts generally accept death as final, it's what separates them from Necromancers.

(On another note - I wonder if that statement is where I got the idea for calling Morse Code "Morr's Code" in Broken Mirror.)
 
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Keep in mind Ghyan is not just the parts of life you happen to like, it is also more fecund pathogens and plagues. Nurgle would love a city flooded with Ghyan and would dislike one with too much Shysh.
It isn't, though. Like, it very specifically isn't.
'Ghyran is the aspects of nature people find positive', isn't precisely accurate, but it's... fairly close. It's inimical to Nurgle, and would prevent the emergence of disease by encouraging stability (disease is, after all, a dysfunctional ecosystem).
Ghyran has precisely one spell having anything to do with 'pathogens', Ferment, and quite a few 'Remove Disease' spells.

Like, I feel that an Ametyst Patriarch might reduce general life expectancy for exemple.
Eh, Amethyst wind is about evanescence and stillness and calm, not everything must be destroyed. It might reduce lifespan in that there would be less extreme treatment for the mortally sick, but I'm dubious about that actually helping at this level anyways (short of, well, magic)

If Teclis came during one of these trials do you think anyone would object to him taking it? I doubt it. In fact he could likely become Supreme Patriarch not during the trials so long as he promised to stay the whole term.
Someone might. Whether they'd actually be able to stop him is very unlikely. Of course if something happens to motivate Teclis to do that it's probably because something has gone horribly, horribly wrong with (this specific corner of) the world.

No. The spell says only units with the designation 'War Machine' can be summoned. The Steam Tank doesn't qualify, as it is considered a Chariot.
That seems somewhat arbitrary based on game mechanics.
... presumably the actual reason is that it summons a gun, not 'a vehicle which happens to have a gun mounted in it'.

So to the question of does ambient magic make life in Aldorf worse for the common man the answer is yes no matter who heads the Colleges. I have to say I prefer living in our nice safely isolated wizard's tower where the locals generally see only the benefits of magic. One more reason not to take a job in Aldorf, not only are the locals prejudiced against wizards they are at lest in some measure right that magic is bad for them.
Teclis de-euclidianing Altdorf was a very definitely weird idea, that's for certain. On the other hand, the College Towers are so impressively imposing and/or hard to find because if they weren't, people would attack them. The Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels didn't help, but it happened before too.
 
"You can't go outside when the weathers like this, thats how you end up in a riot."
I realize this is a joke post, but to reply seriously anyway: if I'm understanding the scenario right, I don't think the fog consistently resulting in riots is a magical effect, per se. As in, there's nothing about Ulgu that makes people inherently riled up and inclined to smash things - that'd be Aqshy, if anything.

I think it's more that you combine Incredibly Thick Fog + It's Altdorf, and you get something like how cities sometimes react to blackouts IRL. "Cops can't arrest you if they can't see you, let's smash some fucking windows! NOOOOOOO CONSEQUENCEEEEEES! WOOOOOO!" That kind of thing.
 
I realize this is a joke post, but to reply seriously anyway: if I'm understanding the scenario right, I don't think the fog consistently resulting in riots is a magical effect, per se. As in, there's nothing about Ulgu that makes people inherently riled up and inclined to smash things - that'd be Aqshy, if anything.

I think it's more that you combine Incredibly Thick Fog + It's Altdorf, and you get something like how cities sometimes react to blackouts IRL. "Cops can't arrest you if they can't see you, let's smash some fucking windows! NOOOOOOO CONSEQUENCEEEEEES! WOOOOOO!" That kind of thing.

Said clouds would probably have above-background-levels of confusion, too, mind you.
 
I realize this is a joke post, but to reply seriously anyway: if I'm understanding the scenario right, I don't think the fog consistently resulting in riots is a magical effect, per se. As in, there's nothing about Ulgu that makes people inherently riled up and inclined to smash things - that'd be Aqshy, if anything.

I think it's more that you combine Incredibly Thick Fog + It's Altdorf, and you get something like how cities sometimes react to blackouts IRL. "Cops can't arrest you if they can't see you, let's smash some fucking windows! NOOOOOOO CONSEQUENCEEEEEES! WOOOOOO!" That kind of thing.
And that's why you can't go outside, because there is going to be a riot, and you will be too lost to stay out of it.
 
Not gonna lie, getting some major Discworld vibes from BoneyM's descriptions of Altdoft today.

Not quite the same vibe as Ankh Morpork/etc, but I can't help but feel that if you dropped a Morporker into Altdorf, or vice versa, they'd adapt quickly.

All it really needs is women who've gotten into the habit of thinking exactly as hard as they need to to take the shortcut they want today, men who've taken to cooking over century warm embers at the edge of the district because hey: free fuel, people who hide things they don't want found in the sill of the Forgettable Window. (when they remember to,) or cheeky torch and pitchfork sellers who open shop when the fog descends, to everyone else's disdain.

"Well, looks like we've been caught in the fog Franz. Shame."

"Aye Heinrich, shame indeed. So, what'll we go mad about today, do you think?"

"The lack of fruit imports in the winter, maybe? I could really go for a juicy peach, but everything left this time of year is preserves, and expensive to boot."

Half an hour later: "FRESH FRUIT! FRESH FRUIT! FRESH FRUIT!"
 
Answering that would require unpacking a lot of conflicting philosophies about what it actually means to be a 'noble'. The word doesn't actually have legal meaning: Knight, Baron, Count, Duke, all that sort of thing are all legally defined (albeit often with different definitions in different places) but 'noble' isn't actually nailed down. You could argue yes on the grounds that the Orders are analogous to Knightly Orders, or because Wizards gain special privileges in exchange for being available for military service under specific circumstances, or simply based on interpreting that Article as granting that status to Wizards. You could argue no based on a chivalrous idea of what it means to be noble, or that it should require the holding of land and the collection of taxes, or a caste-based argument that a great many Wizards were born to peasants and foreigners.

Or you could dismiss the entire debate and argue that there is no meaningful distinction: if you enjoy the perks of nobility, then for all significant intents and purposes, you are a noble.
Is there a more clear definition of nobility in Brettonia?

Also, do knights from Knight Orders (holy or not) also always own a piece of land? Because one definition of nobility could be whether someone has feudal vassals or not. Wizards, even LMs, don't have such by default, but Patriarchs and Matriarchs do. Mathilde and other knights do in the form of the peasants on their land.
The idea was to make Wizards essentially vassals to their Orders, thus preventing them from founding businesses or accumulating huge amounts of property as individuals, in order to assuage the concerns of burghers. This kind of backfired in that there's nothing stopping Wizards from doing so while still being a part of their Orders, as demonstrated by the Gold Order competing with and eventual acquiring the Alchemists Guild of Middenheim. All it really did was made sure that Wizards are legally prevented from fracturing into competing business interests.

This is also the legal framework the Orders use to extract the tithe from its members.
Whose idea/hope was that it would work that way? Because Magnus could have easily put something to enforce that into the Articles, but deliberately did not.
Allowing adoption completely transforms the concept of what a dynasty is for everyone, not just wizards, particularly allowing adoption without it just meaning that a man marrying in takes their superior status wife's family name.

Allowing aristocrats to adopt to continue the family both changes the meaning of family, the legitimacy of hereditary, and several other things on a way that mean that society would work very differently to late European feudalism that the Empire is superficially modelled on. Basically, dynasties don't die out except for during local apocalypses, and rather than one dynasty replacing another you keep the same dynasty name and have people adopted as a continuation of the previous one to maintain legitimacy. Even if that adoption happens with a sword to the throat of the previous head of the family, and is immediately followed by that head being chopped off.

As one small example, guilds and trade families are likely to be much more persistent, as promising apprentices can be adopted into the family.

It might be a partial explanation for why the Empire is as socially/culturally stable as it is despite being on a death world.
That makes the complete slaughter of the Haupt-Andersens all the stranger.
 
Is there a more clear definition of nobility in Brettonia?

Also, do knights from Knight Orders (holy or not) also always own a piece of land? Because one definition of nobility could be whether someone has feudal vassals or not. Wizards, even LMs, don't have such by default, but Patriarchs and Matriarchs do. Mathilde and other knights do in the form of the peasants on their land.

Whose idea/hope was that it would work that way? Because Magnus could have easily put something to enforce that into the Articles, but deliberately did not.

That makes the complete slaughter of the Haupt-Andersens all the stranger.

Well just becaue adoption can happen doesn't mean it will, see irl. Also joke (?) answer--adoptions need to be consensual on both sides and everyone asked NOPED out of joining the obviously cursed family.
 
Not gonna lie, getting some major Discworld vibes from BoneyM's descriptions of Altdoft today.

Not quite the same vibe as Ankh Morpork/etc, but I can't help but feel that if you dropped a Morporker into Altdorf, or vice versa, they'd adapt quickly.

All it really needs is women who've gotten into the habit of thinking exactly as hard as they need to to take the shortcut they want today, men who've taken to cooking over century warm embers at the edge of the district because hey: free fuel, people who hide things they don't want found in the sill of the Forgettable Window. (when they remember to,) or cheeky torch and pitchfork sellers who open shop when the fog descends, to everyone else's disdain.

"Well, looks like we've been caught in the fog Franz. Shame."

"Aye Heinrich, shame indeed. So, what'll we go mad about today, do you think?"

"The lack of fruit imports in the winter, maybe? I could really go for a juicy peach, but everything left this time of year is preserves, and expensive to boot."

Half an hour later: "FRESH FRUIT! FRESH FRUIT! FRESH FRUIT!"
Really? I've just accepted that Altdorf is basically Ankh-Morpork in Warhammer since Boney said they announce taxes on holidays so the rioting doesn't stop people working.
Yeah, the thing that first made the comparison shine for me was the "oddly patriotic criminal underworld, which is completely unaffiliated with the Grey College" that kept on mugging the hobgoblins trying to assassinate LM Grey. Altdorf is clearly alt-Ankh-Morpork and that's great.
 
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