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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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It's a good thing a High Wizard isn't eligible to be a Supreme Patriarch. Then the streets would be flooded with Qhaysh, and that stuff curdles if you so much as look at it. There would be clumps of Dhar scattered all over Altdorf, and is there anyone here who'd want that?

... No really, is there anyone here who'd want that to happen? Don't worry, I'm asking for entirely wholesome purposes, I promise.
 
Now that the wild speculation is out of my system I do think that Ulgu would have predictable effects beyond the negative.

After all, skullduggery isn't only one way Ulgu can manifest. Ulgu is associated with confusion, not just as those who try to cast the world into it, but also those who seek out the uncertain and confusing and bridge the gaps in understanding.

Picture scholars and institutes of research taking on long and grueling investigations into deep mysteries and philosophies. "Finding the biggest question they can and batting themselves against it" as it was once put. The public finding themselves attracted to circuses and con artists alike for a chance look at mystique and showmanship. Deals and diplomacy as people try to bridge the gaps between their understanding of one another.

Grey wizards are not just assassins and plotters, after all, but also diplomats, mystics, and showmen.

So, yeah, I'm pretty sure every wind is going to have its positives as well as its negatives if you flood a city in it.
 
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I have to imagine that the wind attracted to people obsessed with mystery would attract plenty of hardboiled detective types as well, and who wouldn't want Witch Hunter!Humphrey Bogart?
 
Eh, I imagine all the Winds would have their own positives and negatives in equal measure, or Teclis would not have made such an all-encompassing enchantment unless he meant to just utterly screw over the city.
 
Omegahugger said:
It's a good thing a High Wizard isn't eligible to be a Supreme Patriarch. Then the streets would be flooded with Qhaysh, and that stuff curdles if you so much as look at it. There would be clumps of Dhar scattered all over Altdorf, and is there anyone here who'd want that?

... No really, is there anyone here who'd want that to happen? Don't worry, I'm asking for entirely wholesome purposes, I promise.
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If Teclis came during one of these trials do you think anyone would object to him taking it? I doubt it. In fact he could likely become Supreme Patriarch not during the trials so long as he promised to stay the whole term.
 
Come to think of it, I wonder what effect having a lot of Ghur in Altdorf has on the Imperial Zoo and its denizens? Does it make them harder to tame? Does it allow them to survive and maybe even thrive in captivity, despite not necessarily being suited to such?
 
Klaus said:
Casting the most difficult spell in the entire game
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If we're being accurate, the two hardest spells in the game are boosted Birona's Timewarp, at 24+*, and Purple Sun of Xereus, at 25+**.

*Regular Birona's Timewarp lets you give a single unit extra movement and attacks. Boosted BT gives that to every single friendly unit in range of the spell.
**PSoX is a damaging vortex that turns people into purple crystal that can stick around for multiple turns, at the cost of not controlling where it moves. Has the same chance of causing instant death as Pit of Shades.
 
Andres110 said:
Are Magisters nobles or do they just get the perks of nobility?
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The wording implies they get the treatment of nobility but not get the titles or obligations. Magisters don't naturally have land they own or an obligation to muster a milita from said area to aid the Empire in times of war, which are the standard obligations of a noble.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
Just the perks and legal status, I believe. Magister is the title of an official, which was put in place to prevent Wizards from dynasty-building with the wealth they would earn from commissions.
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I do not think there is anything stopping say a Gold Wizard from dynasty building, they are perfectly within their rights to make money, buy properties and pass it on to heirs and since the heir can be adopted they can just pass it down to their apprentices to keep it in the hands of other wizards.
 
Sparsebeard said:
Do we even WANT to win the Supreme Matriarch position? People already get lost in Aldorf all the time, imagine if the Winds of Shadow were predominant. I guess ranaldian thieves would find it easier to hide in the shadows... but so would chaos cults, forbidden churches and other nefarious conspiracies.
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I think it's more a matter of mentality than physical changes- certainly, no physical changes were described in the section talking about the impact of Ghur on the city.

A city rich in Ghyran would have see people have lots of kids, a city rich in Azyr would see constant philosophical debates on the street corners, a city rich in Shyish would seem much more somber, a city rich in Ulgu... I'm not sure, but I don't think it'd be that.
 
Andres110 said:
Are Magisters nobles or do they just get the perks of nobility?
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Answering that would require unpacking a lot of conflicting philosophies about what it actually means to be a 'noble'. The word doesn't actually have legal meaning: Knight, Baron, Count, Duke, all that sort of thing are all legally defined (albeit often with different definitions in different places) but 'noble' isn't actually nailed down. You could argue yes on the grounds that the Orders are analogous to Knightly Orders, or because Wizards gain special privileges in exchange for being available for military service under specific circumstances, or simply based on interpreting that Article as granting that status to Wizards. You could argue no based on a chivalrous idea of what it means to be noble, or that it should require the holding of land and the collection of taxes, or a caste-based argument that a great many Wizards were born to peasants and foreigners.

Or you could dismiss the entire debate and argue that there is no meaningful distinction: if you enjoy the perks of nobility, then for all significant intents and purposes, you are a noble.
 
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Also of note, by the wording this applies only when in the employ ' of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire '

So the way I read this, if a Magister goes to for example Bretonnia or Tilea of their own volition for a personal project or something, the locals are under no obligation to treat the Magister with anything approaching noble status because technically the Magister isn't a noble of the Empire nor are they at that time in the employ of the Electors. (Doing so may be unwise for other reasons however, with consequences up to and including a pissed of Wizard, or miffed Emperor)

Unless Magisters count as being in the employ of the Empire by virtue of belonging to the Colleges, but then the clarifying definition tacked on looses all meaning, since you cannot be a Magister without being under the purview of the Colleges.
 
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DragonParadox said:
I do not think there is anything stopping say a Gold Wizard from dynasty building, they are perfectly within their rights to make money, buy properties and pass it on to heirs and since the heir can be adopted they can just pass it down to their apprentices to keep it in the hands of other wizards.
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The stated reason why the class of Magister was created was to curtail the political power of the Colleges.

I don't think they ever go into detail on how that works, but that's the reason I'm seen consistently.
 
Mopman43 said:
I think it's more a matter of mentality than physical changes- certainly, no physical changes were described in the section talking about the impact of Ghur on the city.

A city rich in Ghyran would have see people have lots of kids, a city rich in Azyr would see constant philosophical debates on the street corners, a city rich in Shyish would seem much more somber, a city rich in Ulgu... I'm not sure, but I don't think it'd be that.
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It'll be.. Gotham city.

Or London or new york during 19th century with all the kid pickpockets.
 
SakSak said:
Also of note, by the wording this applies only when in the employ ' of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire '

So the way I read this, if a Magister goes to for example Bretonnia or Tilea of their own volition for a personal project or something, the locals are under no obligation to treat the Magister with anything approaching noble status because technically the Magister isn't a noble of the Empire nor are they at that time in the employ of the Electors. (Doing so may be unwise for other reasons however, with consequences up to and including a pissed of Wizard, or miffed Emperor)

Unless Magisters count as being in the employ of the Empire by virtue of belonging to the Colleges, but then the clarifying definition tacked on looses all meaning, since you cannot be a Magister without being under the purview of the Colleges.
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But we are a Dame and also technically a dwarf lore master. So noble right?
 
Mopman43 said:
The stated reason why the class of Magister was created was to curtail the political power of the Colleges.

I don't think they ever go into detail on how that works, but that's the reason I'm seen consistently.
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The idea was to make Wizards essentially vassals to their Orders, thus preventing them from founding businesses or accumulating huge amounts of property as individuals, in order to assuage the concerns of burghers. This kind of backfired in that there's nothing stopping Wizards from doing so while still being a part of their Orders, as demonstrated by the Gold Order competing with and eventual acquiring the Alchemists Guild of Middenheim. All it really did was made sure that Wizards are legally prevented from fracturing into competing business interests.

This is also the legal framework the Orders use to extract the tithe from its members.
 
BoneyM said:
Or you could dismiss the entire debate and argue that there is no meaningful distinction: if you enjoy the perks of nobility, then for all significant intents and purposes, you are a noble.
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Hmm.
For all she's a Wizard of the Wind of (nominally) uncertainty, ambiguities and edge cases, Mathilde certainly cut through that ambiguity in her idiosyncratically direct manner. :)
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
But we are a Dame and also technically a dwarf lore master. So noble right?
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Yes, we are. We have a legitimate noble title in the Empire legally disconnected from us being a magister (we got knighted as a reward we asked for, during our early years as Spymaster). And Thane/Loremaster are the Dwarven given ones (and they almost certainly recognized Empire titles as well, because Sigmar was a good boy)

But your average Magister lacking these titles might not count as a noble outside the empire, technically speaking.
How this works in practice is another matter.

Overall, the whole thing reads as a compromise between practical reality of the newly established Colleges (back when they were new) and the existing nobility.
Like, can you imagine Nobility accepting that a sufficintly accredited witch or a warlock is a noble? Preposterous! Where is the lineage, the purity of bloodline ramblerambleramble

And yet the magisters needed a codified way of getting respecteful treatment, without having to threaten every village mayor each and every time. Because that would do good things to the goodwill and reputiation of the newly legitimized magic users in the empire.....

Hence what we have: "If you are legitimized as a Magister wizard by the recognized Colleges of the Empire, and working for the Empire, everyone better treat you with respect instead of as another peasant (but you are not technically a noble with a noble title, so the nobles won't start a riot)"
 
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One of the more awesome things about Mathilde is how blunt and direct she often is, while still leaving everyone around her baffled by wtf just happened.
 
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